Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

Well, now that Toaster suggested it...

Metal Mario
Funky Kong
Urbosa
Gee, I wonder who that would be. Such a mystery...
Gooey
Leon
Raichu

 

[Deleted member]

"This is the biggest crossover in gaming history."
"These game franchises are a big part of video game history."
- Masahiro Sakurai, Smash Direct 8.8.2018 + Nintendo Direct: E3 2018

If it's been almost 20 years of a franchise celebrating VIDEO GAMES, then some rules can never be spoken. Implications are good enough. No Goku, no Popeye, nothing. I'd actually would rather talk about chairs at that point.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Fine.... i have no source, Sakurai only said that "he hoped to include certain important game characters who had appeared on a Nintendo console as a “courtesy” while still maintaining the freedom to alter said characters for the needs of Smash."

Now, if you excuse me, i'm leaving before i embarrass myself even more

Okay, I legitimately want to know where he said that. I don't remember the phrasing, honestly.

It's an interesting one. Though I don't see how that confirms it's a requirement so much as some were chosen for their Nintendo history too, which is not a bad thing anyway. He's appealing to many people, after all.

 

[Starbound]

My boi ALSO protects children...

Until he gets caught for tax fraud.

Y'know what'd be great? If Smash Ultimate has an SSE-style story mode (which I highly doubt), what if Ridley, portrayed as he is in the Metroid manga, had Isabelle as his right hand? Isabelle wouldn't be evil here, mind you, but she'd just be helping Ridley out, being too much of an airhead to know any better. That would be very entertaining.

This would be so out of character that it's amazing I love it.

Plus I think she'd make a fine army commander.

 

[Radical Bones]

I think that our next Smash Presentation will be between late October and Mid-November. We'll know all out characters by then because a big part of the social media marketing campaign will be about player count and stage count.

We could have a special announcement a la Robin's trailer, where it's just hosted on the Smash site though.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Y'know what'd be great? If Smash Ultimate has an SSE-style story mode (which I highly doubt), what if Ridley, portrayed as he is in the Metroid manga, had Isabelle as his right hand? Isabelle wouldn't be evil here, mind you, but she'd just be helping Ridley out, being too much of an airhead to know any better. That would be very entertaining.

Uh, I think she'd get the hint when he starts murdering people like he did mario and mega man though

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Gee, I wonder who that would be. Such a mystery...

Obviously it's birdo...duh...

 

[WertQuadNine]

I'd honestly sacrifice any more newcomers just for Subspace. Yes, I'm serious.

 

[Pyra]

Well, now that Toaster suggested it...

Metal Mario
Funky Kong
Urbosa
Gee, I wonder who that would be. Such a mystery...
Gooey
Leon
Raichu

I forgot Raichu existed outside of Alola, hahahaha.
I considered Metal Mario as well, but like... what happens when he picks up a metal box? Does he roll over into a human again? Have we all decided that Metal Mario is a different entity than Mario Mario? Because I don't want to see whatever horror it looks like as a "human".

Urbosa is... huge, compared to Link. Too big for Smash.

 

[Ridleyridster]

Y'know what'd be great? If Smash Ultimate has an SSE-style story mode (which I highly doubt), what if Ridley, portrayed as he is in the Metroid manga, had Isabelle as his right hand? Isabelle wouldn't be evil here, mind you, but she'd just be helping Ridley out, being too much of an airhead to know any better. That would be very entertaining.

Now this...This I would love. It'd be absolutely hilarious

And fits with my headcanon of Ridley adopting Isabelle and she being one of the two people he likes...

 

[Pyra]

I'd honestly sacrifice any more newcomers just for Subspace. Yes, I'm serious.

I absolutely would.
I am unashamed. So long as a lot of the problems with it were fixed. I just need some excuse to see cutscenes and partnerships between the characters.

 

[DraginHikari]

Y'know what'd be great? If Smash Ultimate has an SSE-style story mode (which I highly doubt), what if Ridley, portrayed as he is in the Metroid manga, had Isabelle as his right hand? Isabelle wouldn't be evil here, mind you, but she'd just be helping Ridley out, being too much of an airhead to know any better. That would be very entertaining.

I'm not familiar with Animal Crossing but... how oblivious is Isabelle anyway? lol

 

[Starbound]

I forgot Raichu existed outside of Alola, hahahaha.
I considered Metal Mario as well, but like... what happens when he picks up a metal box? Does he roll over into a human again? Have we all decided that Metal Mario is a different entity than Mario Mario? Because I don't want to see whatever horror it looks like as a "human".

Urbosa is... huge, compared to Link. Too big for Smash.

Metal Mario would turn gold when he becomes metal, as a reference to Gold Mario.

I'm pretty sure it's a different entity than regular Mario if the spinoffs are anything to go by.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

This whole Ridley and Isabelle thing. It's gonna become a meme for sure.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Metal Mario would turn gold when he becomes metal, as a reference to Gold Mario.

I'm pretty sure it's a different entity than regular Mario if the spinoffs are anything to go by.

Literally his first appearance in Smash is a different boss character. He was only a power-up in some games. And a separate person in others. It's inconsistent. In Dr. Mario 64, he's a power up for Dr. Mario(and coincidentally existed before Metal Dr. Mario in Melee. There's also the various metal designs in Mario Party 2. Which were also power-ups, without a blatant source).

 

[ThatOneAnon]

If the box theory is true, people are gonna be so angry when the DLC newcomer turns out to be Dante lmao
I'm actually beginning to wonder if Vergeben's sources mistook Dante for an SE rep

 

[Originality]

I'd honestly sacrifice any more newcomers just for Subspace. Yes, I'm serious.

If Spirits is like SSE at all, this is the best game. Not in the franchise, but ever.

 

[AugustusB]

So something I have noticed about the 'Spirits' mode being a potential story mode, there are bosses.

What if, Skull Kid was indeed a boss (Crazy but here me out) and he is scaled as a fighter, fights like a playable fighter and launches like a playable fighter?

Another character to think about...The Black Knight from FE. Same thing

Maybe some characters are bosses and seem to have a playable characteristic about them.

Later down the line Sakurai announces the first DLC: Vllains

I don't think Nintendo would do something like that...*Looks at Hyrule Warriors* Well....who knows!?

 

[Potato_]

I'm kinda rooting for an ambiguously antagonistic Isabelle tbh

True Neutral Isabelle. She just does whatever she feels like regardless of the consequences.

Also as a response to your earlier post about Original 8 echoes:

= Jumpman?
= Funky Kong
= I honestly don't know. It'd have to be someone who wouldn't look off using a Shiekah Slate, AND a sword and shield. Closest would have to be Zelda, but she never uses a weapon. I'm going to go out there and say the Old Man from the beginning of BOTW.
=
= I mean if I don't say you know who here I'd be an ass so... him.
= Gooey is the only thing that makes sense.
= You want a weird one? James McCloud. His father.
= It's gotta be Raichu. Works too well, and he gets the shaft far too often.

 

[Iridium]

What if we got this Mario as an Echo Fighter?

Edit: Or these?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Cloud was chosen to rep an extremely major series. That had nothing to do with Nintendo.

Honestly, only Bayonetta is remotely close to a case where having ties to Nintendo is important, and possibly Geno too(well, Banjo & Kazooie are another case). The rest? Hah, no. They got in for their own merits in every way.

The Final Fantasy series started on Nintendo consoles, so it does have something to do with them

And Sonic is a lot closer to having all sorts of ties with Nintendo than Bayonetta, especially with importance (I mean seriously...the dude went from the main threat to Mario to becoming one of his friends and competing in the Olympics with him). Even with Bayo having both of her games published by Nintendo (and the 3rd will follow suit), she and her series are not as close or important to them as Sonic is

What if we got this Mario as an Echo Fighter?

Cosmic Rosalina as well then

= It's gotta be Raichu. Works too well, and he gets the shaft far too often.

Change Raichu to Detective Pikachu

Rosalina is the best mom. I love her. All the possibilities!

 

[Potato_]

What if, Skull Kid was indeed a boss (Crazy but here me out) and he is scaled as a fighter, fights like a playable fighter and launches like a playable fighter?

I'd be extremely annoyed at Sakurai. Why? YOU DID MOST OF THE HARD WORK ALREADY! WHY NOT JUST...

Later down the line Sakurai announces the first DLC: Vllains

Oh. Well if he isn't base game then for sure I'd take this.

 

[Idon]

Actually, this talk of sacrifices had me thinking.

In a game like Ultimate where Sakurai's philosophy seems to be sacrificing nothing and creating the most comprehensive Smash out of the 4, what's the most controversial "sacrifice"s that you personally would make to the game to get what you'd want?

 

[Pyra]

What if we got this Mario as an Echo Fighter?

Edit: Or these?

How about all of them? Mario is the only character with 20 echos.

 

[Jetsurge]

If the box theory is true, people are gonna be so angry when the DLC newcomer turns out to be Dante lmao
I'm actually beginning to wonder if Vergeben's sources mistook Dante for an SE rep

Dante doesn't make sense at all. DMC has never been on a Nintendo console and he didn't do well on the ballot at all,

 

[Will]

I'd be extremely annoyed at Sakurai. Why? YOU DID MOST OF THE HARD WORK ALREADY! WHY NOT JUST...

This could apply to a lot of Assists.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Dante doesn't make sense at all. DMC has never been on a Nintendo console and he didn't do well on the ballot at all,

He hasn’t had one of his games on a Nintendo console yet...unless he was replaced by Bayonetta

 

[Potato_]

Actually, this talk of sacrifices had me thinking.

In a game like Ultimate where Sakurai's philosophy seems to be sacrificing nothing and creating the most comprehensive Smash out of the 4, what's the most controversial "sacrifice"s that you personally would make to the game to get what you'd want?

I'd sacrifice any new third parties to ensure the popular first party picks get in.

Sorry Tails and Shadow, but Skull Kid has to come first for me.

This could apply to a lot of Assists.

Alucard particularly. Almost makes me feel like Sakurai has more plans for them...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The Final Fantasy series started on Nintendo consoles, so it does have something to do with them

That was kind of odd wording. FF starting on Nintendo had jack-all to do with his decision. It was because FF was a huge franchise. That's why he wanted a character. He immediately dismissed any character who was important to Nintendo among the FF options because they weren't important at all to him. He wanted the big gun. No more, no less.

And Sonic is a lot closer to having all sorts of ties with Nintendo than Bayonetta (I mean seriously...the dude went from the main threat to Mario to becoming one of his friends and competing in the Olympics with him). Even with Bayo having both of her games published by Nintendo (and the 3rd will follow suit), she and her series are not as close to them as Sonic is

Bayo is definitely closer, though. She's published by Nintendo and almost like a Nintendo character. Sonic is still 3rd party. Sakurai would've added Sonic in Melee right out if development time allowed for it. This is well before any Sonic GameCube games came out. Thus, he didn't get in for relations to Nintendo, but for both popularity and iconicness. Just like almost every 3rd party(save Bayo, obviously). Snake still had those going for him. Being a favor alone isn't going to get a character in. There were other factors to consider, like licensing and such.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Probably still the only one having a feeling Skull Kid maybe a boss.

 

[WertQuadNine]

To jump on this train...

-Metal Mario. Honestly wouldn't hate it, but I feel like some would
-Mr. L. Eh, I mean not really necessary
-Black Falcon. I know some people really want this, but I'm impartial
-Ninten. No thanks, Ninten is way too similar looking to Ness
-Yarn Yoshi. PLEASE, this would be so perfect
-Funky Kong. I don't hate this idea either
-I guess Skyward Sword Link? Way too many links
-Riachu. Kinda cool to have the complete line, but still not necessary
-Wigglytuff I suppose. No point
-
-Yarn Kirby. Would be weird since YK can't suck
-Slippy. Nah, 2 semi-clones is enough as is

...so yeah, only one I "want" is Yarn Yoshi, but some aren't too bad either. Some really are tho

 

[Sigran101]

As weird as it is to say, I think my biggest hang up on the box theory is Shadow the hedgehog.

Now don't mistake this for bias. I hate Sonic. I wanted him to get cut in smash 4. One of the last things I actually want is more Sonic content .

That said, I would be utterly shocked if Shadow isn't in. Sonic is by far the most popular 3rd party series in smash. It's also the one that's been there the longest. Even aside from the assist trophy seemingly replaced by knuckles, I don't think there's any way Sakurai could get away with 2 Castlevania characters, 2 street fighter characters, and still only 1 Sonic character.

I have immediately discredited any leak claiming to have the whole roster that doesn't include Shadow, and that's quite possibly my biggest doubt about the box theory.

 

[ZeldaPlayer87]

I find it incredibly hard to believe that the last two main roster characters are Incineroar and Ken. Certainly they’d want to end on a high note.

Also, I fully believe we are getting 108 stages. I don’t think it was a typo or a happy accident. Something tells me it was deliberate.

 

[Luigi The President]

As weird as it is to say, I think my biggest hang up on the box theory is Shadow the hedgehog.

Now don't mistake this for bias. I hate Sonic. I wanted him to get cut in smash 4. One of the last things I actually want is more Sonic content .

That said, I would be utterly shocked if Shadow isn't in. Sonic is by far the most popular 3rd party series in smash. It's also the one that's been there the longest. Even aside from the assist trophy seemingly replaced by knuckles, I don't think there's any way Sakurai could get away with 2 Castlevania characters, 2 street fighter characters, and still only 1 Sonic character.

I have immediately discredited any leak claiming to have the whole roster that doesn't include Shadow, and that's quite possibly my biggest doubt about the box theory.

See, I'm not going to rule out anything simply because Shadow isn't there but...I'll be astonished if he returns as an AT or just doesn't appear at all.
Like...he's one of the very few perfect Echoes, has always had decent fan demand, the Knuckles Assist Trophy...

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I find it incredibly hard to believe that the last two main roster characters are Incineroar and Ken. Certainly they’d want to end on a high note.

Also, I fully believe we are getting 108 stages. I don’t think it was a typo or a happy accident. Something tells me it was deliberate.

Brawl ended on Olimar instead of Sonic.

Smash 4 ended on Shulk or Duck Hunt, depending on how you look at it, instead of Mega Man or Little Mac.

 

[Noipoi]

Certainly they’d want to end on a high note.

I'm not saying Incineroar and Ken are the last fighters but-

Didn't Brawl end with Olimar?
Didn't Smash 4 end with Duck Hunt after the game was already out?

I might not remember exactly so correct me if i'm wrong, but Smash hype cycles don't usually have "big finales".

 

[Luigi The President]

Brawl ended on Olimar instead of Sonic.

Smash 4 ended on Shulk or Duck Hunt, depending on how you look at it, instead of Mega Man or Little Mac.

I'm not saying Incineroar and Ken are the last fighters but-

Didn't Brawl end with Olimar or Wolf?
Didn't Smash 4 end with Duck Hunt after the game was already out?

I might not remember exactly so correct me if i'm wrong, but Smash hype cycles don't usually have "big finales".

So I saw a decently reasonable explanation for Brawl's ending today.
Remember Brawl's big delay? Perhaps Sonic was revealed early to keep the hype up during that drought.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Regardless if they are the last. I'm still happy I got my King K. Rool and Ridley. Anything else is icing on cake.

Still would love to have Banjo-Kazooie, Black Shadow and Medusa though.

 

[Shroob]

Is it weird that Vergeben, a person that a lot of people seemingly didn't like/care for, has kinda 'tamed' the whole situation around the box theory?


Like, a few days ago, people were going at each other like berserkers.

Now? "Ah, Incineroar, not my first pick but sure."

"A 2nd SE rep? Neat! Who is it?"

 

[ZephyrZ]

So something I have noticed about the 'Spirits' mode being a potential story mode, there are bosses.

What if, Skull Kid was indeed a boss (Crazy but here me out) and he is scaled as a fighter, fights like a playable fighter and launches like a playable fighter?

Another character to think about...The Black Knight from FE. Same thing

Maybe some characters are bosses and seem to have a playable characteristic about them.

Later down the line Sakurai announces the first DLC: Vllains

I don't think Nintendo would do something like that...*Looks at Hyrule Warriors* Well....who knows!?

The two Warriors crossover games were only supervised by Nintendo, so they're kind of a grey-ish area. That said, putting incomplete characters in the game and selling them as DLC isn't something I think Sakurai would do.