Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Misery Brick]

Quick question, outside of possibly Ken.
(I mean we all figure he's an echo fighter, but I'm going to start laughing my ass off if he isn't considered one)
Has Verge ever leaked anyone that is an echo fighter?
Because he's leaked everyone else, but the only unique character he missed, correct me if I'm wrong, is K. Rool.

I just find that extremely interesting. If that's the case, is it probably because most of them are really only discussed internally or?

 

[Luigi The President]

Quick question, outside of possibly Ken.
(I mean we all figure he's an echo fighter, but I'm going to start laughing my *** off if he isn't considered one)
Has Verge ever leaked anyone that is an echo fighter?
Because he's leaked everyone else, but the only unique character he missed, correct me if I'm wrong, is K. Rool.

I just find that extremely interesting. If that's the case, is it probably because most of them are really discussed internally or?

No. He has only leaked Ken.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I get the whole 9 character thing with the box theory, but what I don't understand is why they would do that. It doesn't make sense from a design standpoint.
Assuming they are going to have 36 characters on each side, the logical design choices would be:
• Mario - Snake on 1 side and the rest of the fighters after Snake on the opposite side.
• Or alternate 6 on each side. Mario - Yoshi (left), Kirby - C. Falcon (right), Jigglypuff - Sheik (left), Zelda - Lucina (right), and so on.

Does anyone have any idea why they would cut it up like they did?

My guess is they wanted the original 8 first, but since Dark Samus exists, they made it 9. Honestly I really don't think there some extreme strategic reason for why they did it this way. Its just a mock up box. We don't even know if the other side even exists. And thats the important part to note. We dont even know if this box is going to end up this way when it releases.

 

[JaidynReiman]

The thing is, he's gonna have different sources for each game.
False SC sources are not false Smash sources because they're totally unrelated.

Let us not forget he got an entire new original character right for SC.

I know he had Groh. But he also had a Switch release which was completely debunked. He also said "Groh's dad" and there's no evidence such a character exists. There is Aswel (who he never named), but no relationship with Groh has yet been established.



Meanwhile he listed the rest of the roster and some DLC, but completely missed Seong Mi-Na. And he said Raphael is not in the game, but the devs already accidentally leaked Raphael, proving that he is in the game. What I'm saying is that a lot of his RECENT info has gone up in smoke. I'm not denying at all that he has info, but that's not the argument I'm making.

 

[Pyra]

This is incorrect. Just having your game or an appearance on a Nintendo system is nothing more than a courtesy. That's an old mistranslation from a long time back.

I don't see Cloud's own games on there before he got in. No, games he's related to by proxy(FF1) do not count. Nor does cameos in Kingdom Hearts games count. He had tiny cameos at best. But it's not like it matters, since there's way more to it than an arbitrary tiny appearance.

I mean
Theatrhythm was on the 3DS right

Not that that's really significant either, but it is cloud in a FF game on a Nintendo system before he was in Smash. It doesn't help his argument much though hahaha.

the quote you quoted is probably fixed already, but I just wanna quote you anyways
...View attachment 164870

You can't read, Pit.

 

[Luigi The President]

I know he had Groh. But he also had a Switch release which was completely debunked. He also said "Groh's dad" and there's no evidence such a character exists. There is Aswel (who he never named), but no relationship with Groh has yet been established.



Meanwhile he listed the rest of the roster and some DLC, but completely forgot Seong Mi-Na. And he said Raphael is not in the game, but the devs already accidentally leaked Raphael, proving that he is in the game. What I'm saying is that a lot of his RECENT info has gone up in smoke. I'm not denying at all that he has info, but that's not the argument I'm making.

Correct. The point I was making was that I wouldn't be concerned about his validity regarding Smash leaks if he's false about other games. Just threw that last bit in on a whim.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I get the whole 9 character thing with the box theory, but what I don't understand is why they would do that. It doesn't make sense from a design standpoint.
Assuming they are going to have 36 characters on each side, the logical design choices would be:
• Mario - Snake on 1 side and the rest of the fighters after Snake on the opposite side.
• Or alternate 6 on each side. Mario - Yoshi (left), Kirby - C. Falcon (right), Jigglypuff - Sheik (left), Zelda - Lucina (right), and so on.

Does anyone have any idea why they would cut it up like they did?

So keeping all the original 8 on one side is brought up a lot, but as for why not just Mario - Snake, the best I've seen is that it allows characters from all generations of the series appear on each side, rather than containing 64 and Melee to one side and 4 to the other.

At the end of the day it's a design choice, a choice that was actively made for the mock up.

 

[Pyra]

I wonder how Loz feels about the box theory.

Alright, round one, fight

 

[TMNTSSB4]

This is incorrect. Just having your game or an appearance on a Nintendo system is nothing more than a courtesy. That's an old mistranslation from a long time back.

I don't see Cloud's own games on there before he got in. No, games he's related to by proxy(FF1) do not count. Nor does cameos in Kingdom Hearts games count. He had tiny cameos at best. But it's not like it matters, since there's way more to it than an arbitrary tiny appearance.

Well tbf...The Final Fantasy series as a whole has shown up on Nintendo games before, and though FF7 never showed up on a Nintendo before 2019 (so just a little wait left to go) Cloud was chosen to rep both FF as a whole and his game specifically due to being the most well known character in the series

You can't read, Pit.

Don’t judge Pit...judge Palutena for only using him for fighting, friendship, and...whatever else she uses him for that’s nice and caring (though I did like seeing a quote gone wrong before it was fixed)

 

[Nethermoosen]

Correct. The point I was making was that I wouldn't be concerned about his validity regarding Smash leaks if he's false about other games. Just threw that last bit in on a whim.

Exactly. Because it isn’t verg who knows this stuff. It’s his sources. His sources for SC are not his sources for Smash. Verg isn’t the real leaker. He’s the messenger.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Can we start a movement to save Tingle? Poor man hasn't been in a mainline Zelda since what seems like forever.

Tingle is basically all that Waluigi wishes he could be, so putting him as playable in Smash is the natural thing to do.

I disagree because I loathe Tingle and felt him being in Smash sticks out like a sore thumb

 

[Deleted member]

I wonder how Loz feels about the box theory.

Alright, round one, fight

Loz (probably): If empty slot is Skull Kid, it's real. Otherwise, it's fake.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

This is incorrect. Just having your game or an appearance on a Nintendo system is nothing more than a courtesy. That's an old mistranslation from a long time back.

I don't see Cloud's own games on there before he got in. No, games he's related to by proxy(FF1) do not count. Nor does cameos in Kingdom Hearts games count. He had tiny cameos at best. But it's not like it matters, since there's way more to it than an arbitrary tiny appearance.

While it's not a FULLY requirement to have a strong relationship with Nintendo, they have to atleast release one of their games on a NIntendo system or just make a small cameo, but they gotta appear on the system regardless.

 

[Zinith]

There has been a theme of the OG 8 getting particular notice all throughout the game. On the Switch Dock, on the main menu and on the box art (except Germany because their ratings board don't know ****!!!). So I don't think they'd have similar treatment on the Special Edition box because that would imply Dark Samus is with them and feels.... wrong

 

[Luigi The President]

While it's not a FULLY requirement to have a strong relationship with Nintendo, they have to atleast release one of their games on a NIntendo system or just make a small cameo, but they gotta appear on the system regardless.

Let's see that source

There has been a theme of the OG 8 getting particular notice all throughout the game. On the Switch Dock, on the main menu and on the box art (except Germany because their ratings board don't know ****!!!). So I don't think they'd have similar treatment on the Special Edition box because that would imply Dark Samus is with them and feels.... wrong

Valid point I've yet to see raised.

 

[Pyra]

Loz (probably): If empty slot is Skull Kid, it's real. Otherwise, it's fake.

Both of them have to be Skull Kid.

One of them is still an echo of Ryu.

 

[SubstituteGamer0]

You can't read, Pit.

Wasn't that the whole plot to Kid Icarus up rising or did i stop paying attention at some point?

 

[IronTed]

I know he had Groh. But he also had a Switch release which was completely debunked. He also said "Groh's dad" and there's no evidence such a character exists. There is Aswel (who he never named), but no relationship with Groh has yet been established.



Meanwhile he listed the rest of the roster and some DLC, but completely missed Seong Mi-Na. And he said Raphael is not in the game, but the devs already accidentally leaked Raphael, proving that he is in the game. What I'm saying is that a lot of his RECENT info has gone up in smoke. I'm not denying at all that he has info, but that's not the argument I'm making.

Everyone knows that Verge is very spotty, this was brought up frequently back when he began leaking about Smash in March. It's beyond evident that he's had various sources and has (or had) very, very poor vetting skills.

But his Smash info has been on point, and he hasn't backtracked AFAIK (unless someone has a link). Unless there's someone else, he's been among the most comprehensive leakers this time around.

 

[Chrono.]

I'm curious for whatever reason, but what does mimique feel about the box theory lol?

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Let's see that source


Valid point I've yet to see raised.

Source: common sense. Sorry if i sounded like an asshole
In that case, where's my Kratos in Smash? He hasn't been on a NIntendo console yet but he's iconic af and definitively deserves a spot in the game.

 

[Luigi The President]

Source: common sense. Sorry if i sounded harsh
In that case, where's my Kratos in Smash? He hasn't been on a NIntendo console yet but he's iconic af and definitively deserves a spot in the game.

Ridley could NEVER be in Smash.
Source: common sense.

 

[Deleted member]

Both of them have to be Skull Kid.

One of them is still an echo of Ryu.

Instead of Hadoukens, he throws Majora Moons.

 

[Pyra]

There has been a theme of the OG 8 getting particular notice all throughout the game. On the Switch Dock, on the main menu and on the box art (except Germany because their ratings board don't know ****!!!). So I don't think they'd have similar treatment on the Special Edition box because that would imply Dark Samus is with them and feels.... wrong

Consider the following:
The back of the box has 16 characters on it: The OG 8, and their respective echos. Yes, all of them get echos now.
More news at 11.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Ridley could NEVER be in Smash.
Source: common sense.

Olimar shouldn't be in Smash, he's too small.
Nah, but they just figured out how to make Ridley work, that's it.

 

[Shroob]

At this point, I'm fine with believing Verg to be legit.

Ken? Yeah, we have , almost feels like a given having the grandaddy of all echoes here too.

Incineroar? Blame TPC for giving Ash a Litten and having Smash be their advertising vehicle.

2nd SE rep? Could be anyone, really. My heart says Geno, but my mind says new IP.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Wasn't that the whole plot to Kid Icarus up rising or did i stop paying attention at some point?

Wasn’t a plot point, but it was a quick line that Pit decided to say after he thought he was gonna die

can’t even teach someone how to read...what kind of friend is she?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

That's like saying Ms. PAC-MAN should get in to rep the modding community.

...yeah, if you want to represent the modding community, I think you need a Bethesda game.

Spoiler: Relevant, but risqué

---

Regarding boxes/Vergy/etc., we may just need to wait for the next info drop for anything. If we get a Ken and/or Incineroar drop as a standalone, it makes it seems wholly unlikely that they'll do a final direct with no character announcemnt - even one unique/one echo is pushing it for a finale after August's 2 unique/3 echo.

So...are we getting a random character drop in October? Or are we stuck in this new speculation rut until November when they surprise us with a 50-fact direct?

Speaking of a potential 50-fact extravaganza again - we still know nothing about alternate modes beyond Classic. Where are the trophies? Where is the Home Run Contest (for that matter, where's the bat?)? Where is the target mode? And how amazing is All-star going to be (and how long will it take?)?

 

[SubstituteGamer0]

Wasn’t a plot point, but it was a quick line that Pit decided to say after he thought he was gonna die

Yah i watched nairo play it and that's the only line i remember in the whole game, I think i was playing persona while watching it.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I'm curious for whatever reason, but what does mimique feel about the box theory lol?

Mimique thinks its pointless since its a mockup image that can be edited.

I'm in her discord.

 

[Deleted member]

...yeah, if you want to represent the modding community, I think you need a Bethesda game.

If you wanted to accurately represent Smash modding specifically, you'd use Shadow or Goku no question. I swear, you could replace Brawl's entire 35 character roster with different Shadow movesets.

 

[Chrono.]

Mimique thinks its pointless since its a mockup image that can be edited.

I'm in her discord.

I ended up remembering the twitter handle.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Luigi The President]

Olimar shouldn't be in Smash, he's too small.
Nah, but they just figured out how to make Ridley work, that's it.

You're missing my point.
"Common sense" can't be used as a source for Smash Brothers.
Now get me an actual source or your argument can be scrapped.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

At this point, I'm fine with believing Verg to be legit.

Ken? Yeah, we have , almost feels like a given having the grandaddy of all echoes here too.

Incineroar? Blame TPC for giving Ash a Litten and having Smash be their advertising vehicle.

2nd SE rep? Could be anyone, really. My heart says Geno, but my mind says new IP.

Who would the “new IP” for SE be in your mind? something like Bravely Default?

 

[Luigi The President]

I ended up remembering the twitter handle.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Who is this? Why we believe?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Yah i watched nairo play it and that's the only line i remember in the whole game, I think i was playing persona while watching it.

Considering there’s a ****load of amazing lines in Uprising, you atleast get to remember one of the best ones

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

What? How are the pro-box people not going to look foolish if they turn out to be wrong? All I see are people proclaiming the box theory to be gospel, making elaborate posts "proving" their box theory. Granted, I've gone a bit overboard, not in debunking it (because there's no there there) but why it's a dumb theory. It's the Smash equivalent of numerology.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents on that, '''''pro-box'''''' people are not trying to prove that the box theory is 100% right, it's literally impossible to know at this point (it'll be confirmed only by official releases), they're are usually trying to explain why the box theory should be considered. On the other hand, the ''''anti-box'''' people are trying to say we shouldn't even consider the box mainly for reason such as ''it's dumb'' or ''it's just a box''. In other words the real debate is not around ''is the box theory right?'' it's more around ''should we even consider it as a theory?''. If it happens to be true, people who just discarded it will look a bit more foolish, if it is disproved, '''''pro box''''' people have made a wrong assumption. Anti are making a statement, Pro are making an assumption. That's my understanding.

The thing is, if he isn't sure if the box theory is true, then that means he is equally if not more unsure of the Square character.

Maybe some or all the DLC characters are already decided, therefore his source could be right about the SE character and the box theory would still hold. If i remember correctly he didn't specify any dates regarding the SE character. But as you said he must be confused in the moment, i hope his sources can confirm or disprove the box theory before the next direct...

So I was staring at the box and has it been brought up that there is a typo on it?

Probably about this post i made yesterday but it was not meant to disprove the Box Theory. Just pointing out that the design was not final if anybody had doubts.

Edit: typos and wording...

 

[Nethermoosen]

Olimar shouldn't be in Smash, he's too small.
Nah, but they just figured out how to make Ridley work, that's it.

Ant-man tech is not exclusive to earth, you ****! I’m sorry we had that fight. I respect your opinion.

 

[kylexv]

Who is this? Why we believe?

Just somebody that's gotten a lot of predictions right. That is all.

 

[Nemuresu]

I know he had Groh. But he also had a Switch release which was completely debunked. He also said "Groh's dad" and there's no evidence such a character exists. There is Aswel (who he never named), but no relationship with Groh has yet been established.



Meanwhile he listed the rest of the roster and some DLC, but completely missed Seong Mi-Na. And he said Raphael is not in the game, but the devs already accidentally leaked Raphael, proving that he is in the game. What I'm saying is that a lot of his RECENT info has gone up in smoke. I'm not denying at all that he has info, but that's not the argument I'm making.

Let's see for a minute:
· Verg claims Azwel is Groh's father. Now, there isn't much proof to demonstrate so, but looking back at their trailers, Azwel has a similar "power-up" to Groh (the one with white hair and change of eye colours), and one of the story trailers (I think it was the one with the Create-A-Character quest) clearly implies that there's a relation between them. Whether this proves they're father and son, is still left in mystery.
· That statement about Raphael is wrong. What he said is that Raphael fans were "going to have some stress sweat". Even he didn't know what it meant, so he speculated that it either meant that he wasn't going to be in the game, or that he was going to be pretty terrible to play as. In the end, it wasn't either, that comment was about his design and because he's (or was) going to be the last character to be revealed.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

You're missing my point.
"Common sense" can't be used as a source for Smash Brothers.
Now get me an actual source or your argument can be scrapped.

I mean, even Master Chief has a chance at being added in Smash because of his Minecraft skin on the Switch.
Clearer than water i cannot be.
Of course Ridley had to get in at some point, it was obvious, he's the main villain from a cult Nintendo franchise with a loyal fanbase.
Cloud also got in because of a small cameo, but he appread in a game that was on a Nintendo console, you can't add someone who literally has never touched a Nintendo system before.