Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[IGuessItsOver]

You know guys, i still think Shantae is actually coming. There's more evidence in her favor rather than against her.
If she weren't in, WF would've already said so, and she did pretty good on the ballot so there's that.

 

[Starbound]

If we still have 5 more stages, can we please get a Tetris stage?

Like come on that's the biggest game ever and Nintendo's history with it is so fascinating! It needs to be here.

Find the comic/graphic novel "Tetris: The Games People Play" online or at your library. It's a fascinating look at this iconic look, as well as all the work Nintendo had to go through to secure their rights to it for the Game Boy.

 

[Deleted member]

I just find it odd that if Verg's character are all we're still getting, why was K.Rool the only unique fighter he missed? I could understand missing some because we've always had legit leaks missing some fighters but why JUST K.Rool? This isn't to make a point towards one thing or another, just something I find weird.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know guys, i still think Shantae is actually coming. There's more evidence in her favor rather than against her.
If she weren't in, WF would've already said so, and she did pretty good on the ballot so there's that.

You mean that thing about the “ultimate slumber party”? It does seem a little suspicious, yeah

 

[Pyra]

You know guys, i still think Shantae is actually coming. There's more evidence in her favor rather than against her.
If she weren't in, WF would've already said so, and she did pretty good on the ballot so there's that.

that's the spirit
Don't let promotional packaging bring you down

Even if I disagree
oh wait

You mean that thing about the “ultimate slumber party”? It does seem a little suspicious, yeah

Lmao forgot about that


yeah still probably nothing

 

[Shroob]

I just find it odd that if Verg's character are all we're still getting, why was K.Rool the only unique fighter he missed? I could understand missing some because we've always had legit leaks missing some fighters but why JUST K.Rool? This isn't to make a point towards one thing or another, just something I find weird.

He missed basically every clone too, so I don't think it really matters much.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

You mean that thing about the “ultimate slumber party”? It does seem a little suspicious, yeah

Or she just wants to have some fun, like all genies do

 

[Nethermoosen]

Even then, I'm not getting my hopes up.


If the SE rep isn't DLC, that'd put us at 12 new characters this game, which is tied for the OG game's roster.


I just don't see a world where we get another 5~ dumped on us at the end.

Before the Box thing, I definitely saw it.
Ultimate is like the echo of Smash 4 in a way.
They had wayyyyy more resources to start with because of it. Every other smash was built from the ground up.
They even had the same development team this time.
They added the same number of stages(a little less actually) than they even put in Smash 4.
They refused every character and then altered them. That’s 58 characters that are basically like echoes.
Like I’ve said before, they could basically add a whole smash 4 on top of smash 4. If they really wanted it.

I don’t know, man. I don’t know enough about development. I know it’s a lot of work, but....it doesn’t change the fact Smash 4 should have been harder on them than this one.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Other than the "western indie" argument, i've yet to met someone who can disprove this:

Spoiler

It's just too blatantly obvious not to mean something.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Other than the "western indie" argument, i've yet to met someone who can disprove this:

Spoiler

It's just too blatantly obvious.

Games can't reference Smash or Nintendo without meaning they are IN SMASH

 

[Pyra]

Other than the "western indie" argument, i've yet to met someone who can disprove this:

Spoiler

It's just too blatantly obvious.

But we've yet to prove that's more than a coincidence.
It's interesting for sure but just another thing that nobody can really prove either way without knowing more.

I like Shantae, I promise. Would be fun to have her in.

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean, the thing I think that is most baffling to me is:


Alright, let's say the box isn't the end all be all and Verg is right.



It's literally one more character in the total.


Yeah, I'd be hyped for Geno as much as the next guy, but it's a difference of 1 if Verg has the last 3 newcomers in his grasp.

How many times must I emphasize that he said AT LEAST 6.
He said AT THE VERY LEAST, Incineroar and Ken are in.

These are statements that imply that he would himself expect more.

Apologies if I seem hostile. No harm intended friend.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

You know guys, i still think Shantae is actually coming. There's more evidence in her favor rather than against her.
If she weren't in, WF would've already said so, and she did pretty good on the ballot so there's that.

Keep that light in your life

 

[Shroob]

How many times must I emphasize that he said AT LEAST 6.
He said AT THE VERY LEAST, Incineroar and Ken are in.

These are statements that imply that he would himself expect more.

Apologies if I seem hostile. No harm intended friend.

He never said 6 unique.

After Simon, yeah, we've had "AT LEAST SIX" characters.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

View attachment 164867
Games can't reference Smash or Nintendo without meaning they are IN SMASH

FNAF has no history with Nintendo.

Your turn.

 

[Luigi The President]

He never said 6 unique.

After Simon, yeah, we've had "AT LEAST SIX" characters.

Good point. All I can offer to counter that is that he's had seemingly 0 idea of any Echo so far except Ken.

 

[Starbound]

He never said 6 unique.

After Simon, yeah, we've had "AT LEAST SIX" characters.

Which is what he's saying...

Simon, Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus, K. Rool, Isabelle, Ken, Incineroar

That's 8, satisfying 'at least six'.

 

[BlueMagician]

Not super relevant but this reminded me: Why does Linkle have like no support to be in Smash?

Following trends I'd expect a much larger fanbase than she has.

She's a fan favorite, but that doesn't always translate into support for Smash. In her case, I think people would rather see her selectable and playable in a main game first, since as she's still a side game character she has a weird hurdle to clear. I think that's how it is...

 

[Shroob]

Good point. All I can offer to counter that is that he's had seemingly 0 idea of any Echo so far except Ken.

Yep, but that doesn't mean much at all.

His source could have told him 'there's still about half a dozen' characters lefts and that would be the end of that.


He himself doesn't know if that includes Echoes or not, and it's foolish to assume otherwise.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Anyone remember when Reubon Langdon gave everyone a hope spot for Snake in Smash 4 by claiming he voiced Raiden in Smash in an interview, but then later clarified he meant mocap work for PS All Stars, and while some people believed it was a cover up to hide a leak as there was no official accreditation for his PS All Stars work, it then turned out he really did mix up mocap work in PS All Stars with voice acting in Smash

Oh god I remember that now.

Man smash 4 speculation was really painful for Snake fans, but at least it makes his return in Ultimate all the more sweeter.

 

[Deleted member]

He missed basically every clone too, so I don't think it really matters much.

There's a reason I specified uniques, before Ken, there was a consistent lack of Echoes in his lists but now Ken is another weird thing.

 

[Zinith]

We still on boxes, Verg and CoroCoro...

I'm not convinced of all 3, but whatever

Keep that light in your lifeView attachment 164868

MY light in my life requires some shade...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

FNAF has no history with Nintendo.

Your turn.

I don't see how a multi platform series making a Nintendo reference in a multi platform game suddenly makes it have more significance than if the series never appeared on a Nintendo console.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Unfortunately for those of us who very much enjoy speculating Smash, it's going to be a long wait until we can put this particular idea to rest. Whether we find out the answer when Verg reports what he knows, or we find out in the next info dump, the wait will probably be excrutiatingly painful.

While I do get the feeling that a lot of reasoning against the box being indicative of the final roster being conjecture/"feeling" and nothing concrete, I do give everybody credit. People clearly care about their picks.

That said, don't worry yourselves over it. The sun will always rise the next day, and no matter what you've got to be able to meet it. It's not the end of the world if this is it folks. You'll still get an absolutely incredible game in your hands (or digitally) in early December, and assuming you're not posting here JUST to talk about Smash, but eventually play it, we're all going to have a ton of fun at the end.

I don't think it's worth dissecting the artwork or questioning why it couldn't just be resized, as questions like that don't lead to anything convincing. All it comes down to is this.
- they created a box art BASED ON THE FINAL ROSTER, they did not base the final roster based on box art ideas. This here is a key difference.
- If they could/would "resize images" I'd be more convinced that this was the case here if the box itself didn't have suspicious spots on the side, clearly where Isabelle and an additional newcomer would be.
- the image itself isn't the focus, but the order in which the characters have been organized. It's very particularly broken up. The common argument against this is, "Why wouldn't they just be in order if this were the final product?" The fact is, there's a reason the box is the way it is, and that itself is why connections are being made to the information Vergeben has been saying.

I feel like this "Civil war" people are talking about with this is overblown. Even though I think this has a good probability of being the case, by no means do I bear disdain for people who disagree. I don't care for people who like to throw insults, but I think it's crazy to get actively toxic about it.

I think everybody wants more characters in the game. I certainly do. I just think this is possibly the final roster we're looking at, based on the information I've compiled.

Like I said, just don't stress about it.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

We still on boxes, Verg and CoroCoro...

I'm not convinced of all 3, but whatever

I'm taking people's advice and just believe in what i want honestly, we won't know if Verge or the box are true until Nintendo says something.

 

[Pyra]

MY light in my life requires some shade...

He's gonna get in AND he's gonna be a Semi-clone

 

[Luigi The President]

Unfortunately for those of us who very much enjoy speculating Smash, it's going to be a long wait until we can put this particular idea to rest. Whether we find out the answer when Verg reports what he knows, or we find out in the next info dump, the wait will probably be excrutiatingly painful.

While I do get the feeling that a lot of reasoning against the box being indicative of the final roster being conjecture/"feeling" and nothing concrete, I do give everybody credit. People clearly care about their picks.

That said, don't worry yourselves over it. The sun will always rise the next day, and no matter what you've got to be able to meet it. It's not the end of the world if this is it folks. You'll still get an absolutely incredible game in your hands (or digitally) in early December, and assuming you're not posting here JUST to talk about Smash, but eventually play it, we're all going to have a ton of fun at the end.

I don't think it's worth dissecting the artwork or questioning why it couldn't just be resized, as questions like that don't lead to anything convincing. All it comes down to is this.
- they created a box art BASED ON THE FINAL ROSTER, they did not base the final roster based on box art ideas. This here is a key difference.
- If they could/would "resize images" I'd be more convinced that this was the case here if the box itself didn't have suspicious spots on the side, clearly where Isabelle and an additional newcomer would be.
- the image itself isn't the focus, but the order in which the characters have been organized. It's very particularly broken up. The common argument against this is, "Why wouldn't they just be in order if this were the final product?" The fact is, there's a reason the box is the way it is, and that itself is why connections are being made to the information Vergeben has been saying.

I feel like this "Civil war" people are talking about with this is overblown. Even though I think this has a good probability of being the case, by no means do I bear disdain for people who disagree. I don't care for people who like to throw insults, but I think it's crazy to get actively toxic about it.

I think everybody wants more characters in the game. I certainly do. I just think this is possibly the final roster we're looking at, based on the information I've compiled.

Like I said, just don't stress about it.

The problem is many people can create a post as detailed as yours with valid counterpoints.
That's why it's such a "civil war". Very few theories/leaks have such evidence on both sides.

I really appreciate you trying to keep things calm tho.

 

[Trisepta]

I get the whole 9 character thing with the box theory, but what I don't understand is why they would do that. It doesn't make sense from a design standpoint.
Assuming they are going to have 36 characters on each side, the logical design choices would be:
• Mario - Snake on 1 side and the rest of the fighters after Snake on the opposite side.
• Or alternate 6 on each side. Mario - Yoshi (left), Kirby - C. Falcon (right), Jigglypuff - Sheik (left), Zelda - Lucina (right), and so on.

Does anyone have any idea why they would cut it up like they did?

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'm not expecting us to go over 12 new characters, including echoes.

This fits into "Don't expect too many new" and "A few more left to show" in my book.

In all honesty, Echoes are completely irrelevant to the equation. At most together they add up to one newcomer. I don't think we'll get over 8 unique newcomers, but Echoes are COMPLETELY irrelevant.

I just find it odd that if Verg's character are all we're still getting, why was K.Rool the only unique fighter he missed? I could understand missing some because we've always had legit leaks missing some fighters but why JUST K.Rool? This isn't to make a point towards one thing or another, just something I find weird.

This. I get the feeling that some characters were very top secret. He even stated he was asking around for literally anything on K. Rool.


I'd also like to bring up, again, how he's been getting a **** ton of recent info wrong with other games he's leaking information for. Soul Calibur 6 being a big one where he's been wrong with basically everything he's said the past couple of months.

I get the whole 9 character thing with the box theory, but what I don't understand is why they would do that. It doesn't make sense from a design standpoint.
Assuming they are going to have 36 characters on each side, the logical design choices would be:
• Mario - Snake on 1 side and the rest of the fighters after Snake on the opposite side.
• Or alternate 6 on each side. Mario - Yoshi (left), Kirby - C. Falcon (right), Jigglypuff - Sheik (left), Zelda - Lucina (right), and so on.

Does anyone have any idea why they would cut it up like they did?

I think the idea is so that the original 8 are first.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

I don't see how a multi platform series making a Nintendo reference in a multi platform game suddenly makes it have more significance than if the series never appeared on a Nintendo console.

To even have a small chance of appearing in Smash, you got to have atleast one game on any Nintendo system. No exceptions.
Shantae has 4 (1 fully-exclusive and 2 timed-exclusives), FNAF has none.

 

[Luigi The President]

In all honesty, Echoes are completely irrelevant to the equation. At most together they add up to one newcomer. I don't think we'll get over 8 unique newcomers, but Echoes are COMPLETELY irrelevant.


This. I get the feeling that some characters were very top secret. He even stated he was asking around for literally anything on K. Rool.


I'd also like to bring up, again, how he's been getting a **** ton of recent info wrong with other games he's leaking information for. Soul Calibur 6 being a big one where he's been wrong with basically everything he's said the past couple of months.



I think the idea is so that the original 8 are first.

The thing is, he's gonna have different sources for each game.
False SC sources are not false Smash sources because they're totally unrelated.

Let us not forget he got an entire new original character right for SC.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I get the whole 9 character thing with the box theory, but what I don't understand is why they would do that. It doesn't make sense from a design standpoint.
Assuming they are going to have 36 characters on each side, the logical design choices would be:
• Mario - Snake on 1 side and the rest of the fighters after Snake on the opposite side.
• Or alternate 6 on each side. Mario - Yoshi (left), Kirby - C. Falcon (right), Jigglypuff - Sheik (left), Zelda - Lucina (right), and so on.

Does anyone have any idea why they would cut it up like they did?

Just that the original 8 would be on one side together. They would have to go with 9 because Dark Samus now comes after Samus.

 

[lordvaati]

Ugh. The whole "character can get in as an indie rep" thing just sounds so off to me in how many treat the characters by divorcing them from the franchise of origin.
That's like saying Ms. PAC-MAN should get in to rep the modding community.

 

[Starbound]

Other than the "western indie" argument, i've yet to met someone who can disprove this:

Spoiler

It's just too blatantly obvious not to mean something.

Shantae is my second most wanted character after Phoenix Wright so it hurts me to say this but...

This doesn't mean anything. All of it. I argue that this is all coincidental that doesn't mean anything.

For 'Challenger Appears', 'Shantae x Blaster Master Zero', and 'Jammies Mode', those types of marketing screens are used for many games, especially if there's a crossover. It's not emulating Smash but rather following the flow. The first one is your best evidence and I do agree that it is a reference to Smash, but I don't think it suddenly means Shantae is coming. That's a big leap in logic and a far reach.

As for 'Ultimate Slumber Party", if this were the case, any game that used 'Ultimate' as some descriptive adjective would warrant consideration into Smash, which is ludicrous. Ultimate is just a word, and it can be a word used to describe pretty much anything. Like a slumber party, or the ultimate Pokemon Adventure. Or anything really.

What you have is a wall of images that collectively doesn't mean anything, because each individual piece is relatively meaningless so it can't actually build a base to stand on.

 

[Pyra]

While I do get the feeling that a lot of reasoning against the box being indicative of the final roster being conjecture/"feeling" and nothing concrete, I do give everybody credit. People clearly care about their picks..

There are definitely people who are only trying to debunk it cause "but muh character!!!"

But then there are people who are rooting for the character anyway because it's just... better that way for some people. Haha.

I personally think the Box theory holds weight but I'd rather be right about my theory and blow the Box out of the water than just resign myself to this doom that everyone's put on themselves (that's what it seems like, with everyone so damn gloomy about this all the time)

It just wouldn't be fun to act like I can't still postulate about the what-ifs against the grain just cause a this is a hard cookie to definitively crack. Haha


Though I'm a bit of a broken record on that point, so I've personally just been trying to encourage some people to do the same, because there are some folks that are... genuinely distraught by this for one reason or another, and don't realize they can just... do what they want anyway, because nothing's proven yet.

 

[TheCJBrine]

It's possible that they left blanks in for attempted symmetry rather than for roster slots; I'd imagine that Nintendo would've told their promotional team "just use the characters on the website," which would explain Isabelle's absence despite both her and the promo going up after the direct (did the promo go up after the direct? I mean, she was revealed after its reveal, anyway...).

 

[SubstituteGamer0]

I get the whole 9 character thing with the box theory, but what I don't understand is why they would do that. It doesn't make sense from a design standpoint.
Assuming they are going to have 36 characters on each side, the logical design choices would be:
• Mario - Snake on 1 side and the rest of the fighters after Snake on the opposite side.
• Or alternate 6 on each side. Mario - Yoshi (left), Kirby - C. Falcon (right), Jigglypuff - Sheik (left), Zelda - Lucina (right), and so on.

Does anyone have any idea why they would cut it up like they did?

The only reason i have thought of why they did groups of 9 instead of 6 is that the original 8(plus dark samus) are being advertised on the back but then i feel like having 11 newcomers we don't know about seems extreme
Edit:But they could still do groups of 6 so no matter how i think of it just feels wrong.

 

[Zinith]

I need to restate my motto...

"All leaks are bull**** until proven otherwise"

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Other than the "western indie" argument, i've yet to met someone who can disprove this:

Spoiler

It's just too blatantly obvious not to mean something.

View attachment 164867
Games can't reference Smash or Nintendo without meaning they are IN SMASH

Other than maybe Sony, who doesn’t want to have Smash representations?

We still on boxes, Verg and CoroCoro...

I'm not convinced of all 3, but whatever


MY light in my life requires some shade...

And my light killed most of the human race to reboot life

There are definitely people who are only trying to debunk it cause "but muh character!!!"

But then there are people who are rooting for the character anyway because it's just... better that way for some people. Haha.

I personally think the Box theory holds weight but I'd rather be right about my theory and blow the Box out of the water than just resign myself to this doom that everyone's put on themselves (that's what it seems like, with everyone so damn gloomy about this all the time)

It just wouldn't be fun to act like I can't still postulate about the what-ifs against the grain just cause a this is a hard cookie to definitively crack. Haha

Though I'm a bit of a broken record on that point, so I've personally just been trying to encourage some people to do the same, because there are some folks that are... genuinely distraught by this for one reason or another, and don't realize they can just... do what they want anyway, because nothing's proven yet.

the quote you quoted is probably fixed already, but I just wanna quote you anyways
...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To even have a small chance of appearing in Smash, you got to have atleast one game on any Nintendo system. No exceptions.
Shantae has 4 (1 fully-exclusive and 2 timed-exclusives), FNAF has none.

This is incorrect. Just having your game or an appearance on a Nintendo system is nothing more than a courtesy. That's an old mistranslation from a long time back.

I don't see Cloud's own games on there before he got in. No, games he's related to by proxy(FF1) do not count. Nor does cameos in Kingdom Hearts games count. He had tiny cameos at best. But it's not like it matters, since there's way more to it than an arbitrary tiny appearance.