Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Did Vergeben ever say anything about K. Rool? That was a big surprise reveal that I don't think I saw leaked anywhere, and it makes me wonder if there's more significant surprise reveals for this game that are being kept under stricter confidentiality than what Verg's sources have access to.

Nope. He's said nothing about Daisy, K. Rool, Richter, Dark Samus, or Chrom.

 

[Hinata]

I saw mention of Isabelle's voice earlier, and that's all well and good, but I'd like to draw attention to the fact that if you pay close attention during her reveal trailer (particularly near the end where she lands on the ground and says "I hope you'll cheer me on!"), you can hear that she still makes jingling noises when she moves around.

 

[Iridium]

Oh boy, it's time for...
SUPER SMASH BROTHERS CRUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADE!

You got me thinking about SSF2, and I still find it interesting how they did Simon.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Did Vergeben ever say anything about K. Rool? That was a big surprise reveal that I don't think I saw leaked anywhere, and it makes me wonder if there's more significant surprise reveals for this game that are being kept under stricter confidentiality than what Verg's sources have access to.

There was one person who predicted K.Rool and Ridley the day before their respective directs.

Then they predicted Skull Kid the day before the last direct and that sure as hell didn't go well lmao

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Now I have a question for you all. Would any of you all dedicate a single day to simply listening to the music in Smash nonstop, with the amount of tracks we have? It's possible, and I would try it.

I love listening to Smash music. That's pretty well all my phone currently has for when I'm walking through the city. That and the Elder Scrolls sountracks.

It's gonna be loads of fun to put all of the music on the stages here. I wonder if we'll be able to put two songs on the same stage - probably, but I hope that we can make it easy to say one goes in one place and one goes in another. It's scaring me to think about putting all of the Mario music in without accidentally repeating.

And why do we have several Mario boss themes, but no Bowser stage? Ditto Zelda, but the sunset on Eldin does make it seem a little more Ganondorf-y

 

[JustCallMeJon]

If the music theory is real I'd probably cry simply because it deconfirms Paper Mario, Geno, Bandana Dee, ..and in my eyes that's it.

Those 3 just get big screwed over by some tunes.

Pikmin? Yoshi? Fire Emblem? F-Zero? Megaman? Metal Gear? Street Fighter?
Those all have plausible Echoes that could still totally make the cut. Except Megaman, granted.

But damn. Those other 3 just get claimed by this theory.

EDIT: Skull Kid as well.

Actually it can be 50-50 for Geno. Geno is a 3rd party and a 2nd party character, while his appearance is SMRPG, it is owned by Square. Geno could possibly have its own series and music track just like other Mario characters such as Yoshi, DK, Wario, etc etc. Music theory for him isn't really a problem though if you compare to other Mario characters having its own sub-series.

 

[Luigi The President]

are all still kicking while is definitely gonna have the next song

Roll for Smash?

Roll for Smash!

Only if I want to become a psychopath

Also Kid Icarus, Bayonetta, Star Fox, Punch Out, Xenoblade, maybe Wario and the obvious Sonic series have echoes (uniques and semis aswell) available aswell.

Slippy will be the best StarFox character

Wasn't my point, was only describing the series which already have music that has been released.
But no, I certainly don't see any Echoes Punch-Out, Xenoblade, or Wario could have.

 

[Deleted member]

You got me thinking about SSF2, and I still find it interesting how they did Simon.

I like Smash Flash 2's Goku more than Crusade's but the original Crusade plan was all vets (from post Brawl/Pre-Smash 4-era) and 80 characters with Goku. We're so close to this being a real game and it amuses me to no end.

 

[ZephyrZ]

As long as we don't have three characters all sharing "Link! Link! Link!" since Dark Pit is a legit enough character to get his own chant, but Link/Tink aren't.

No one ever calls him "Pit", that's why. "Dark Pit" is his actual name. It'd be really weird to call him "Pit", unlike Toon Link and Young Link, who are both just named "Link".

 

[Chron]

Now I have a question for you all. Would any of you all dedicate a single day to simply listening to the music in Smash nonstop, with the amount of tracks we have? It's possible, and I would try it.

I've listened to video game soundtracks/remixes for 10/11 hours straight on a car trip before.

 

[Nethermoosen]

No one ever calls him "Pit", that's why. "Dark Pit" is his actual name. It'd be really weird to call him "Pit", unlike Toon Link and Young Link, who are both just named "Link".

It’s also weird when Young Link is fighting Link and we hear “Link! Link! Link!”

It’s like the crowd doesn’t care who’s winning, they just really like watching them fight. Lol

 

[CaptainAmerica]

No one ever calls him "Pit", that's why. "Dark Pit" is his actual name. It'd be really weird to call him "Pit", unlike Toon Link and Young Link, who are both just named "Link".

But they use the exact same chant.

You mean to tell me that recording "Link! Link! Link!" and "Goooo Link!" would have been to hard? By that logic, why do Roy and Roy also not share one? Even in the JP version, both of them have "Roy Roy Roy," but one is men and the other women.

That's what makes it seem lazy.

 

[Deleted member]

But they use the exact same chant.

You mean to tell me that recording "Link! Link! Link!" and "Goooo Link!" would have been to hard? By that logic, why do Roy and Roy also not share one? Even in the JP version, both of them have "Roy Roy Roy," but one is men and the other women.

That's what makes it seem lazy.

To be fair, Smash 4's chants (except DK's and keeping Roy's Our Boy) are all trash, and I replaced the chants for all the vets (except DK) the first chance I could.

 

[Noipoi]

Now I have a question for you all. Would any of you all dedicate a single day to simply listening to the music in Smash nonstop, with the amount of tracks we have? It's possible, and I would try it.

Probably not all day, but I will definitely listen to these songs as much as I can.
I already like video game music more than most normal songs, and stuff like Bomb Rush Blush and Gangplank Galleon certainly aren't changing my opinion.

 

[TreeBranch]

Speaking of video game music, I'm sort of mad that Sonic only has a few more songs than it did Smash 4. Sonic is known for its music!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If the music theory is true, the only way Bandana Waddle Dee could theoretically get in is as an Echo

And I’m not sure how I feel about that...

 

[CosmicQuark]

If the music theory is real I'd probably cry simply because it deconfirms Paper Mario, Geno, Bandana Dee, ..and in my eyes that's it.

Those 3 just get big screwed over by some tunes.

Pikmin? Yoshi? Fire Emblem? F-Zero? Megaman? Metal Gear? Street Fighter?
Those all have plausible Echoes that could still totally make the cut. Except Megaman, granted.

But damn. Those other 3 just get claimed by this theory.

EDIT: Skull Kid as well.

I think a lot of fan theories shouldn't be taken too seriously, as ultimately--Sakurai does what he wants. But I figure, with only 2 unique characters from new series (Inkling, Simon) and 3 from returning (Ridley, King K Rool, Isabelle), and one returning that is rumored (Incineroar) I'd like to see more characters from new series, given we have such a limited roster. First party characters like Isaac and Chorus Kids, third parties like B&K and Rayman, to me would be much more interesting in the base game than series that are already represented. As well as series that have limited representation, like Xenoblade with Elma. And Geno's a special case, because we don't know whether they would put him in Mario's series or a new series.

EDIT:

Speaking of video game music, I'm sort of mad that Sonic only has a few more songs than it did Smash 4. Sonic is known for its music!

Indeed! When I counted the music tracks on screen, and compared to Brawl/4's count, it seemed like Sonic doesn't have much new music, probably just a track from Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces. Of course, as Sakurai said, the track list is still tentative. One of the great things about Sonic is its music, and I feel like there are some glaring omissions (especially Sonic's theme, It Doesn't Matter). But, third parties are a lot more difficult when it comes to licensing music.

 

[ZephyrZ]

It’s also weird when Young Link is fighting Link and we hear “Link! Link! Link!”

It’s like the crowd doesn’t care who’s winning, they just really like watching them fight. Lol

But they use the exact same chant.

You mean to tell me that recording "Link! Link! Link!" and "Goooo Link!" would have been to hard? By that logic, why do Roy and Roy also not share one? Even in the JP version, both of them have "Roy Roy Roy," but one is men and the other women.

That's what makes it seem lazy.

I was just pointing out that the Dark Pit thing was a bad comparison.

Now that Roy one? That's much better.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of video game music, I'm sort of mad that Sonic only has a few more songs than it did Smash 4. Sonic is known for its music!

Isn't some of the Sonic music copyright really weird? I know there's the Michael Jackson stuff in Sonic 3, but is that all?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Wasn't my point, was only describing the series which already have music that has been released.
But no, I certainly don't see any Echoes Punch-Out, Xenoblade, or Wario could have.

Glass Joe for a Little Mac echo, and I also added unique and semi-clone newcomers to fit the likes of Xeno (Elma, Rex and Pyra/Mythra) and Wario (guess Mona or Kat-Ana)

And don’t worry I know what I said wasn’t your point...yet

But they use the exact same chant.

You mean to tell me that recording "Link! Link! Link!" and "Goooo Link!" would have been to hard? By that logic, why do Roy and Roy also not share one? Even in the JP version, both of them have "Roy Roy Roy," but one is men and the other women.

That's what makes it seem lazy.

The Links chants probably relate to how they’re incarnations of one another, all sharing the same name by default while the Roy Boys are different enough to get different chants...and no point in going with how obviously different by name and personality the Pits are

Speaking of video game music, I'm sort of mad that Sonic only has a few more songs than it did Smash 4. Sonic is known for its music!

Only people that can be blamed are the artists who decided to not do many Sonic remixes and for once not Sega themselves

 

[Chron]

By that logic, why do Roy and Roy also not share one?

= Our boy
≠ Our Boy

 

[Iridium]

If we got Ryu Hayabusa, we would need some music from here:

Also, wouldn't he count in Sakurai's eyes as a retro rep?

 

[Starbound]

If the music theory is true, the only way Bandana Waddle Dee could theoretically get in is as an Echo

And I’m not sure how I feel about that...

I mean I guess he could echo Meta Knight if the sword was reanimated into a spear.

That said, slicing with a spear seems difficult and I don't think Meta is much for sword stabs.

 

[Luigi The President]

Glass Joe for a Little Mac echo, and I also added unique and semi-clone newcomers to fit the likes of Xeno (Elma, Rex and Pyra/Mythra) and Wario (guess Mona or Kat-Ana)

And don’t worry I know what I said wasn’t your point...yet

The Links chants probably relate to how they’re incarnations of one another, all sharing the same name by default while the Roy Boys are different enough to get different chants...and no point in going with how obviously different by name and personality the Pits are

Only people that can be blamed are the artists who decided to not do many Sonic remixes and for once not Sega themselves

Mona and Kat and Ana can fart so hard they explode into the air..ride motorcycles...propel themselves into the air by spinning....hold their mouths wide open for a huge chomp...yeah, I don't think so.

Now THAT would be an ACTUAL waste if we got them as Echoes, and there aren't many of those wastes.

Glass Joe as a Little Mac Echo...could work I guess. But also, Elma does not use the Monado and neither does Rex, which...is what Shulk's entire moveset is based upon, ruling them out as well.

 

[P.Kat]

This is the smash community where we read in cereal box, house furniture, Digital Costume for our self-insert and interview from years ago to use as proof in an argument.

Trust me. We don't.

Don't forget clouds we just love to predict characters from cloud shapes.

Btw that reminds me I saw a wolf shape cloud earlier today. Ammy confirmed for Smash... I wish

 

[Nethermoosen]

= Our boy
≠ Our Boy

Oh snap! What a retro burn!

 

[TreeBranch]

Only people that can be blamed are the artists who decided to not do many Sonic remixes and for once not Sega themselves

I don't even want remixes. The originals are all great as well. It's just a real shame they haven't added that many.

Isn't some of the Sonic music copyright really weird? I know there's the Michael Jackson stuff in Sonic 3, but is that all?

Hmm, I wouldn't think there would be any problems. Aren't there even some Sonic composers working on Ultimate?

 

[Deleted member]

Elma does not use the Monado and neither does Rex, which...is what Shulk's entire moveset is based upon, ruling them out as well.

Just make the XCX Avatar character a Shulk echo. Sure, they don't have access to the Monado, but due to the classic voice option, they do have Shulk's voice. And the XCX Avatar is such a popular and iconic non-character, it would be a shame to leave them out.

 

[Luigi The President]

Just make the XCX Avatar character a Shulk echo. Sure, they don't have access to the Monado, but due to the classic voice option, they do have Shulk's voice. And the XCX Avatar is such a popular and iconic non-character, it would be a shame to leave them out.

Ok yeah no Tougon got me. Only if we get to add Gothitelle alongside them though.

 

[AnOkayDM]

The only Shulk echo I could see is Alex Roivas from Eternal Darkness. The Monado's various modes would be replaced with using the power of one of the four gods from that game, and I guess keeping Smash the way it was?

Obviously I don't believe this will happen, but damn if it couldn't work.

Please make another Eternal Darkness game Nintendo.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Mona and Kat and Ana can fart so hard they explode into the air..ride motorcycles...propel themselves into the air by spinning....hold their mouths wide open for a huge chomp...yeah, I don't think so.

Now THAT would be an ACTUAL waste if we got them as Echoes, and there aren't many of those wastes.

Glass Joe as a Little Mac Echo...could work I guess. But also, Elma does not use the Monado and neither does Rex, which...is what Shulk's entire moveset is based upon, ruling them out as well.

Doesn’t rule them out at all. Only keeps them from being echoes, but a unique newcomer doesn’t hold back Kat-Ana, Rex and/or Elma one bit (which I think you might be more focused on echoes than the other two options for playability)...also Glass Joe would be op as hell

I don't even want remixes. The originals are all great as well. It's just a real shame they haven't added that many.

Hmm, I wouldn't think there would be any problems. Aren't there even some Sonic composers working on Ultimate?

Well you might get Fist Pump...only bright side I can think of

 

[Noipoi]

If any of you guys still have problems with Incineroar, just think of the memes!

Take for example, this lovely image I found. Text provided by a hilarious anon.

You know they say that all Smashers are trained equal, but you look at me and you look at Geno and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another Smasher, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a genetic freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add Hat Goomba to the mix, your chances of winning drastically go down. See the 3 way, at December 7th, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because Hat Goomba KNOWS he can't beat me and he's not even gonna try!

So Geno, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got a 8 1/3 chance of winning at Ultimate. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Ultimate. See Geno, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you on December 7th.

Spoiler: the video this is referencing

 

[Chron]

I think Kaede would be cool(even though he's another sword user).

 

[Idon]

If we got Ryu Hayabusa, we would need some music from here:

Also, wouldn't he count in Sakurai's eyes as a retro rep?

Nah, MANY characters come from the NES/SNES era.

The difference between those characters and "retro reps" is that retro reps really haven't made it big and become franchises. GnW, ICs, ROB, Duck Hunt for example
Ryu Hayabusa on the other hand has a hit franchise that has had a release within the past half decade, is brought back in tons of crossovers, and is still the face of Team Ninja and Koei Tecmo.

 

[Luigi The President]

Doesn’t rule them out at all. Only keeps them from being echoes, but a unique newcomer doesn’t hold back Kat-Ana, Rex and/or Elma one bit (which I think you might be more focused on echoes than the other two options for playability)...also Glass Joe would be op as hell

Well you might get Fist Pump...only bright side I can think of

Luckily, that's why I was exclusively referring to Echoes and not newcomers.

 

[Paperchampion23]

So looking at the music theory, here are the remaining series without music and their likelyhood of getting a newcomer. Note: This is assuming it is true:

Star Fox - Unlikely
Pokemon- Likely
MOTHER- Possible
Kid Icarus- Possible
WarioWare- Unlikely
Animal Crossing - Isabelle this week I'd assume
Wii Fit - Unlikely
Punch-Out!! -Unlikely
Xenoblade Chronicles- Possible
Duck Hunt- Unlikely
Sonic- Possible
Pac-Man- Unlikely

Of those that are unlikely, my reasoning:

Star Fox- Krystal probably would have been the newcomer, but she is an AT

WarioWare- Ashley would have been the likely newcomer, but an AT

Wii-Fit, Punchout, Duck Hunt, Pac-man- No other notable characters in their franchises.


Of those Possible:

- Mother: Porky is a villain heavy, and could be a newcomer

- Kid Icarus: Hades is also a villain heavy, Medusa could be unique like Isabelle to Palutena (But would probably be an echo)

- Xenoblade: Elma is a fan requested character

- Sonic: Tales or Shadow could be considered new characters similar to Isabelle. Or perhaps Eggman is newcomer as a Villain heavy. Who knows.

Pokemon: Obvious with Incineroar.

So in reality it just leaves us with:

-Mother
-Kid Icarus
-Pokemon
-Xenoblade
-Sonic

As outlets for potential newcomers from existing franchises. It would be a shame however for popular characters like Bandana Dee, Magalor, or Skull Kid I guess (partially a reason why I hope it's not real, but it's been oddly working so far)

On top of this, the theory doesn't hold for new franchise newcomers, so characters like Geno, Isaac, Banjo, etc are technically safe from these updates.

 

[Knight Dude]

One reason why I want a fourth taunt is so that I can see this:

Anything! A costume, a victory animation, anything!

Hell yeah! That'd be pretty cool. I hope his hair would also be colored in black as well, looks a bit better than the brown some games used.

 

[Roberk]

Wasn't my point, was only describing the series which already have music that has been released.
But no, I certainly don't see any Echoes Punch-Out, Xenoblade, or Wario could have.

Malos has a Monado and uses Monado Arts in bossfights, so he can be a Shulk Echo. He's a significant villain in both XC2 and Torna the Golden Country, so he's not some nobody.

 

[Misery Brick]

If the music theory is true, the only way Bandana Waddle Dee could theoretically get in is as an Echo

And I’m not sure how I feel about that...

I guess theoretically, he could pull the base moveset from Meta Knight, but derive some specials and jumps from Kirby.
At that point I don't know if he'd still be considered an echo though. That might land him in semi-clone territory, welp.
If he doesn't get in the base game, I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out being DLC.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I always imagine Incineroar like Recoome from Dragonball Z Abridged by TeamFourStar.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ChwrPqBqP4