Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

lol



no


I'm not heavily inclined either way to Sonic or Street Fighter and I can assure you more people will have heard of Shadow the Hedgehog than "Ken from Street Fighter"

Umm, what? You're not serious are you?

 

[Pakky]

People are switching to the "SE = DLC" train of thought which makes a good amount of sense, but the issue is that it feels that's being done simply to work with the box theory.

Vergeben seems to reassure us he is indeed very confident SE is getting a rep in his most recent point. He does leave it ambiguous if it's DLC or not, but he's working on finding out.

That's my line of thinking, it just seems like it would end off with SOMETHING big.

I could see 3 or 4 but three makes the most sense at this time.

Also, and this is a extra thought about content moving forward, I don't know if Echoes would be worth paying for, maybe if their less Dark Pit and more like Chorm I could understand the reasoning.

Like, say we got Jeanne right? and she was like how she is Bayo 2. More combo potential but Witch Time as a tiny window of execution.

lol



no


I'm not heavily inclined either way to Sonic or Street Fighter and I can assure you more people will have heard of Shadow the Hedgehog than "Ken from Street Fighter"

Not that I don't think Ken is likely, though. He probably is - in the grand scheme of things, as you said, he is the original "echo fighter". But he's definitely not anywhere near as recognisable as Shadow.

You're gambling.


If we're going on who's more iconic Eggman, Tails or Knuckles would be recognized before Shadow on memes alone.

Ken IS player 2 like he's the concept. You can't get bigger than that.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The entire cast of Street Fighter II is iconic.

It was THE Arcade game of it's time.

All of them are far more recognizable to a certain generation than Shadow the Hedgehog.

Now? Shadow will be far more recognizable to a younger generation.

Ken however has more of a legacy being in far more quality games than Shadow however.

But both are widely recognized characters, but depending on the age of the person you ask? One isn't going to know Ken from Street Fighter and the other won't know Shadow the Hedgehog.

 

[Pyra]

I kinda wanna collect everyone's message and separate them into "box theory is real" and "box theory is ****ing stupid" so I can tag the respective group when whatever happens happens

 

[Misery Brick]

lol



no


I'm not heavily inclined either way to Sonic or Street Fighter and I can assure you more people will have heard of Shadow the Hedgehog than "Ken from Street Fighter"

You have to be joking.
You're going to tell us that one of the most iconic and important fighting game series, and the dude who basically created the inception of both shotos and clones is less known and iconic than a character who can't even measure up to ones in his own franchise outside of the modern era?

I've had this argument so many times on this thread, Smash speculation is truly cyclical.

 

[IGuessItsOver]

This is how Smash Ultimate speculation dies... not with a bang, but with a box.

Reading this makes me very sad

Well, now that we know the last 2 characters for the base roster, who do you want to see as DLC?
For me, i'd like to see either Spring Man or Ribbon Girl, Geno and Skull Kid

 

[Serebii]

OH SNAP! JOE'S HERE?

Everyone is here, remember?

 

[Nethermoosen]

That's the whole thing about using Vergeben that bugs the **** out of me with that theory.

''Obviously he's right but it's just DLC."

Stop assuming things to make your theory right.

That would be wrong, like you say. The thing is that without confirmation on the SE rep being base roster, we still have no disconfirmation on Box Theory.

Also, Ken is really the thing that ties Verg and Box.

Because the box has a very clear pattern in groups of nine which can easily be followed. One of those groups only has 8 in it(on the unseen side) which implies an echo.
In that group is Ryu. So Ken is implied.

Not proven. Implied.

We can’t prove it isn’t right. We can’t prove it’s wrong. Those of us who remain neutral on the matter will wait for something to confirm one or the other.

No one is 100% on anything. But the backing(not incontrovertible proof) is in favor of Box Theory and SE rep being DLC.

Anyone claiming it’s definitely true is jumping the gun a little, understandable as that may be.

Anyone claiming it’s definitely false is jumping the gun a little, understandable as that may be.

 

[Knight Dude]

Now we know how Brad Pitt felt.

View attachment 164708

No no no Chrono. He wanted to know what's IN the box. People here want to know what'll be ON it.

lol



no


I'm not heavily inclined either way to Sonic or Street Fighter and I can assure you more people will have heard of Shadow the Hedgehog than "Ken from Street Fighter"

Not that I don't think Ken is likely, though. He probably is - in the grand scheme of things, as you said, he is the original "echo fighter". But he's definitely not anywhere near as recognisable as Shadow.

I'm pretty sure Ken is more well known than Shadow. Or do you not know how huge Street Fighter is, especially SF2.

See, if you said Tails, I could see the arguement, but Ken's been around much longer than Shadow, and showed up more consistently in his own series. Both are popular, but I'm giving the edge to Ken on this one fam.

 

[Shroob]

lol



no


I'm not heavily inclined either way to Sonic or Street Fighter and I can assure you more people will have heard of Shadow the Hedgehog than "Ken from Street Fighter"

Not that I don't think Ken is likely, though. He probably is - in the grand scheme of things, as you said, he is the original "echo fighter". But he's definitely not anywhere near as recognisable as Shadow.

What has Ken done?

He was the original P2 in Arcade Fighters

He was part of SF2, one of the most iconic fighting games of all time

He's been in basically every SF game since



He has an actual legacy of a character that way outweighs Shadow.


Yeah, he's probably not as recognizable as Shadow but...


Neither is K.Rool to modern gamers.

Neither is Ridley to modern gamers.

 

[Potato_]

I kinda wanna collect everyone's message and separate them into "box theory is real" and "box theory is ****ing stupid" so I can tag the respective group when whatever happens happens

Where is the "Box theory might be legit idk ****" group?

 

[domriver]

inb4 next smash direct states "gift from nintendo - if you purchased the online service before smash brothers ultimate released you can get the first DLC character FREE RIGHT ON the 7th of December!"

 

[Paperchampion23]

I've discussed this before, but it's near impossible for the second piece of info not to be OP given the time between the two posts. Dude had a Word document with everything on it open and copy-pasted the information to 4chan.

Vergeben doesn't necessarily believe the rep is happening 100%. He believes his source which is telling him about the Square Enix rep, but is unsure of it.

If there's one thing to read from Vergeben's statement, I'd say that DLC is happening, and that even if Box Theory is the launch roster, there's still hope for a lot of characters.

Ah okay. Just to note I'd love Dante, as he deserves a place on the roster as much as Bayo does, considering their origin. Anyway I guess he could be right, especially if the Leaker had some insider knowledge at Capcom about it. I do not doubt Dante is probably next on Capcoms priority list to get in Smash after Ryu and Mega man

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I kinda wanna collect everyone's message and separate them into "box theory is real" and "box theory is ****ing stupid" so I can tag the respective group when whatever happens happens

When it happens you can call it boxing day.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I kinda wanna collect everyone's message and separate them into "box theory is real" and "box theory is ****ing stupid" so I can tag the respective group when whatever happens happens

You got a "I think it's plausible but I still think y'all are jumping to conclusions" group?

 

[Curious Villager]

I kinda wanna collect everyone's message and separate them into "box theory is real" and "box theory is ****ing stupid" so I can tag the respective group when whatever happens happens

Is there an "I don't care anymore, I'm waiting for DLC" option...? :x

 

[SubstituteGamer0]

Now? Shadow will be far more recognizable to a younger generation.

To back this up Shadow was the only game i played till i was like 7(am 16) and the only one i'll ever feel nostalgic about

 

[ZephyrZ]

Where is the "Box theory might be legit idk ****" group?

It's impossible for us to be wrong, so there's no reason to ping us to remind us of our arrogance when we discover the truth.

 

[Androobie]

How do you explain this?

Let’s use an analogy here:

A chef has two bowls. He ****s in one bowl, ****s in the second bowl, but then puts sprinkles on the second **** pile. Is that really much of an improvement?

 

[Will]

You got a "I think it's plausible but I still think y'all are jumping to conclusions" group?

that would fall under "box theory is ****ing stupid"

 

[Michele]

Everyone is here, remember?

Holy, he's back again!

 

[Vycoul]

It's really funny reading one page of people adamantly arguing against the box theory, and then on the next page people are taking it as gospel truth and posting eulogies for their most wanted characters.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

inb4 next smash direct states "gift from nintendo - if you purchased the online service before smash brothers ultimate released you can get the first DLC character FREE RIGHT ON the 7th of December!"

I actually see that being how Octolings get into Smash.

Side note: The ink problem would be solved in the same way characters having the same pallete would, by darkening/lightening one set.

 

[Astroworld]

When Verg is wrong, then we'll talk.


Until that happens, he's been 100% right with his Smash predictions.


And Ken is way more iconic of a character than Shadow, not even going to hold any punches. He's the grandfather of what all Echo fighters are.

I wasn’t arguing against that

I hate Sonic and don’t want anymore Sonic characters. I’d much rather have Ken

 

[Pyra]

When it happens you can call it boxing day.

I'm going to.

As soon as any kind of Box Theory "decision" has been made, that is the name it will have as it goes down in history as one of the best soap operas in existence.

Where is the "Box theory might be legit idk ****" group?

You got a "I think it's plausible but I still think y'all are jumping to conclusions" group?

It's not as fun to torment people who don't have all of their eggs in one basket without having all the information.
I think I made it clear where I stand where I think the logic is sound but we can't know either way, so I'm proceeding the way I want to anyway lol

 

[Zippo]

So, if the Box Theory is true and the rumors are correct, then what do you guys, excluding echo fighters here, think of the lineup of newcomers in the base game this go around?

Inkling
Ridley
Simon
King K. Rool
Isabelle
Incineroar

You know, I was down about it at first but the more I think about it, I'm happier and happier if these are the six we're getting at launch.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

that would fall under "box theory is ****ing stupid"

That's very narrow minded. Why so black and white?

Why are we not allowed to have a smiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidge of doubt? Why must we worship it or burn it at the stake?

 

[PlasmaDam]

Sonic deserves more reps

 

[GaroMaster]

Honestly, if Incineroar and Ken are indeed the last characters to be added to the base roster, I'm going to be very curious as to what form the characters we have speculated on will take in Ultimate.

Is Skull Kid going to be a boss in Spirits?
Will Lloyd Irving get the AT treatment or will he remain a Mii Costume?
What's going on with Shadow, Dixie, and Bandanna Dee?
Are Rhythm Heaven and Xenoblade X going to get some content?
Will Isaac be absent once again or will he come back as an AT?
Is Ubisoft going to get anymore content?
Is Microsoft going to get representation?

Honestly, I think this aspect of Ultimate interests me the most. If they aren't playable, then what content will they get?
These next two months are going to be a roller coaster, I'm telling you.

 

[Shroob]

I'll consider myself box agnostic.


Don't think it's real, but it could be.


That way, I'll be right either way.

 

[Chrono.]

Shadow isn't even the most iconic character in his own series lol.

 

[Pyra]

That's very narrow minded. Why so black and white?

Why are we not allowed to have a smiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidge of doubt? Why must we worship it or burn it at the stake?

I never said those were the only two modes anyway.
See my previous reply.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The entire cast of Street Fighter II is iconic.

It was THE Arcade game of it's time.

All of them are far more recognizable to a certain generation than Shadow the Hedgehog.

Now? Shadow will be far more recognizable to a younger generation.

Ken however has more of a legacy being in far more quality games than Shadow however.

But both are widely recognized characters, but depending on the age of the person you ask? One isn't going to know Ken from Street Fighter and the other won't know Shadow the Hedgehog.

Honestly speaking, if anything, Tails is a better comparison to Ken than Shadow.

 

[Zippo]

Shadow isn't even the most iconic character in his own series lol.

For sure, Tails, Kunckles and Eggman are far more iconic.

 

[Idon]

Yeah, I'm sure they could afford to hand out free copies of Ultimate as well.

They're still a buisness and they still need to be motivated by profit to really improve or expand upon something. Just because they could doesn't mean we should always expect them to.

And besides, wasn't the Wii U online already an improvement from the Wii?

The difference is they have to turn a profit from the creation of Ultimate with the massive resources spent on it while Nintendo already has online servers functional and working, (albeit badly) and has had them working for the past decade. Clearly these funds are already allocated from their current budget and profits from their dozens of games they release per year.

And calling the Wii U an improvement over the Wii is setting the bar exceptionally low.

 

[Deleted member]

So, if the Box Theory is true and the rumors are correct, then what do you guys, excluding echo fighters here, think of the lineup of newcomers in the base game this go around?

Inkling
Ridley
Simon
King K. Rool
Isabelle
Incineroar

You know, I was down about it at first but the more I think about it, I'm happier and happier if these are the six we're getting at launch.

Look man. I got my father back from the 10-year long war of absence. Add on the fact that we have Castlevania AND King K. Rool?
Snake, K. Rool, Simon and Richter are what makes the cake - though virtually everyone agreeing one way or another that Rex & Pyra are making it in the roster SOMEHOW is the icing on that cake. :D

 

[Noipoi]

So, if the Box Theory is true and the rumors are correct, then what do you guys, excluding echo fighters here, think of the lineup of newcomers in the base game this go around?

Inkling
Ridley
Simon
King K. Rool
Isabelle
Incineroar

You know, I was down about it at first but the more I think about it, I'm happier and happier if these are the six we're getting at launch.

Very, Very happy.
Though i'd be sad because no Geno.
Along with everyone else coming back it'd be the best Newcomer roster in a Smash game. Hands down.

Sonic deserves more reps

IT'S NO USE

 

[Nethermoosen]

That's very narrow minded. Why so black and white?

Why are we not allowed to have a smiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidge of doubt? Why must we worship it or burn it at the stake?

That doesn’t seem to me like what he’s saying.

He’s saying absolute refusal of Box Theory is the same as absolutely adhering to it. They are both unwarranted extremes.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I never said those were the only two modes anyway.
See my previous reply.

Not to you, to Will

 

[Curious Villager]

Honestly, if Incineroar and Ken are indeed the last characters to be added to the base roster, I'm going to be very curious as to what form the characters we have speculated on will take in Ultimate.

Is Skull Kid going to be a boss in Spirits?
Will Lloyd Irving get the AT treatment or will he remain a Mii Costume?
What's going on with Shadow, Dixie, and Bandanna Dee?
Are Rhythm Heaven and Xenoblade X going to get some content?
Will Isaac be absent once again or will he come back as an AT?
Is Ubisoft going to get anymore content?
Is Microsoft going to get representation?

Honestly, I think this aspect of Ultimate interests me the most. If they aren't playable, then what content will they get?
These next two months are going to be a roller coaster, I'm telling you.

I'm probably more interested in what the remaining Assist Trophy's are now that you mention it. There is bound to be some surprises there...