Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Jedisupersonic]

Frankly playing online is my main way of playing Smash with others, same with most online games so I'll probably still end up purchasing the service either way.

My cousin is putting me on his family plan as a thank you for sharing some of my steam games with him, so I can complain about it while getting it for free.

Truly the best of both worlds.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I'm in the same boat. This may be me being so jaded, but honestly, as much as people complain about the Online Service, people will still buy it and no doubt Smash is going to attract a lot of people in. Look at New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe, a dumb minority are still going to complain about it being $59.99, but people are still going to buy it and then they'll go away, just like how they did with DKC: Tropical Freeze, Bayonetta 2, Captain Toad and so forth because "What is a Wii U".

I've kinda lost faith in people when they don't act upon what they're going to say, so this is why I will never pick either side of the Online Service discussion and buy into it, because most people are going to get it anyways.

Remember when Sony had free online? It was okay.
Compare their free service to their current service.

Yeah. Let’s help Nintendo give us a better service, people. This isn’t mathscience.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Going to buy the online service to play with good ol' strangers.

Way easier then playing locally and being forced to socialize with someone sitting next to you.

 

[Starbound]

I don't want to get Switch Online but if they do something like free Smash DLC with it I might just do it.

That said if I'm not getting Online I don't know if I'm getting Smash and I don't want to think about that.

 

[Pakky]

Chespin to Chesnaught is a chipmunk turning into a glyptodon. Cyndaquil to Typhlosion is a shrew/echidna thing turning into a badger. Chimchar to Infernape goes from ape to monkey. Going from a sea otter to a sealion is hardly the weirdest species change among the starters.

Samurott is legitimately one of the best-designed starters. Also, Samurott for Smash.

Best designed is subjective but you're on that front here's something to think about.

Becoming a glyptodon doesn't make you less of a knight. It doesn't ruin the thematic integrity of the design.

Its get more armor which makes it better at being a knight. Both visually and from an in lore evolutionary aspect.

Why would a samurai lay on their belly to fight? How is that not worse than simply standing?

 

[Astroworld]

I wish people would stop taking leaks as fact

I saw a thread on gamefaqs of people complaining about Street Fighter getting an echo (Ken) before Sonic. Like it literally hasn’t even happened yet and you’re already acting as if it has.

 

[Deleted member]

Remember when Sony had free online? It was okay.
Compare their free service to their current service.

Yeah. Let’s help Nintendo give us a better service, people. This isn’t mathscience.

I think the big problem is that Japan is all on board with it, so everyone else outside of Japan is gonna have a hard pill to swallow when Nintendo's domestic area is alright with how the Online Service is. I've even seen some people on Japanese Twitter see it as a way to teach kids on how to work to get what you want lmao

 

[Exalt4747]

I just find random that a bipedal samurai otter becomes a quadruped sea lion.

Like even Remoraid turning into Octillry makes more sense if you look at their themes as oppose to the animals themselves.

Gun becomes Tank, aka Gun becomes bigger Gun.

I wish they had gone with the old Octillery.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I don't want to get Switch Online but if they do something like free Smash DLC with it I might just do it.

That said if I'm not getting Online I don't know if I'm getting Smash and I don't want to think about that.

Wouldn’t paying them give them funding to improve the online service? So far, they are the only company that isn’t receiving any additional payment for their online services.

If we pay them for it, then they will improve the service OR people will boycott the ****.

 

[ZephyrZ]

20$ honestly feels like tge bare minimum an online service could be charged for. I get the impression Nintendo is aware that they have no clue what they're doing and are selling it for as cheap as possible until they get things all figured out.

Anyway, even if you are still planning on getting the service, I think it's still important to be vocal about your complaints. Nintendo is continuing to get better and better at listening to their fans. Don't believe me? Look at how Mario Party is ditching the car. Or how the hazards toggle and Melee air dodges actually got implemented in Ultimate. Or Mario Tennis Aces in general. Heck, their paid online itself might be a result of people critisizing Nintendo for offering poor online and refusing to get with the times. Sometimes, critisizing helps.

 

[Shroob]

I wish people would stop taking leaks as fact

I saw a thread on gamefaqs of people complaining about Street Fighter getting an echo (Ken) before Sonic. Like it literally hasn’t even happened yet and you’re already acting as if it has.

When Verg is wrong, then we'll talk.


Until that happens, he's been 100% right with his Smash predictions.


And Ken is way more iconic of a character than Shadow, not even going to hold any punches. He's the grandfather of what all Echo fighters are.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I wish people would stop taking leaks as fact

I saw a thread on gamefaqs of people complaining about Street Fighter getting an echo (Ken) before Sonic. Like it literally hasn’t even happened yet and you’re already acting as if it has.

Vergeben has been 100% correct with his information so far though. He's the Gematsu of this speculation cycle, so people have reason to trust him.

As the resident mr. leakerman, I definitely trust Vergeben's claims. If anyone is right, it's going to be him.

 

[Honest Slug]

I feel like implying that Nintendo is incapable of editing a box has to be some kind of new low for speculation.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I sincerely hope there's more than two characters left. As someone who was mostly looking forward to a fair number of newcomers for this game, Ultimate has been a disappointment for me. Since we're at least getting some new characters, I didn't want to write off the game completely until we saw the final roster. However, it's been so long and we've only seen five true newcomers. If there's only two newcomers, or one newcomer and one echo left, I really won't have a reason to want this game.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

When Verg is wrong, then we'll talk.


Until that happens, he's been 100% right with his Smash predictions.


And Ken is way more iconic of a character than Shadow, not even going to hold any punches. He's the grandfather of what all Echo fighters are.

Hell i'm a supporter of Shadow and I 100% agree with this statement. Ken is really iconic to gaming and even E-Sports as a whole.

 

[Knight Dude]

The Nintendo online thing is bare bones as hell, and I blame that on the company always having a ****ty understanding online features.

It's cheaper, that's the only thing it has going for it. If it can function well enough for me to play people online on whatever games I play, that'll be enough I guess. The NES Nexflix thing could be neat, but I'm really waiting for SNES, N64 and Gamecube games to be downloadable.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I think the big problem is that Japan is all on board with it, so everyone else outside of Japan is gonna have a hard pill to swallow when Nintendo's domestic area is alright with how the Online Service is. I've even seen some people on Japanese Twitter see it as a way to teach kids on how to work to get what you want lmao

Nintendo’s consumers extend way beyond Japan. They would miss out on a lot of extra cash if they cut it short. If they don’t actively attempt to improve the service after recieving additional payment, I’m out. I don’t think the rest of us will be too much different. They’d be the laughingstock of online gaming ten fold.

 

[Luigi The President]

Hell i'm a supporter of Shadow and I 100% agree with this statement. Ken is really iconic to gaming and even E-Sports as a whole.

Oh man. I never realized we will be able to recreate this with perfect parrying if Ken makes it in. That's actually awesome

 

[Idon]

Wouldn’t paying them give them funding to improve the online service? So far, they are the only company that isn’t receiving any additional payment for their online services.

If we pay them for it, then they will improve the service OR people will boycott the ****.

It might. It might not. Nintendo already has a ****ton of money in its coffers so paying for this online is wholly unnecessary especially when much smaller game studios have had far better online without having an unnecessary fee and trying to justify it with barely any features.

I'm of the opinion that if Nintendo truly wanted to improve their online services, they would've done so by now.

 

[blackghost]

No FE DLC character is going to get off scot-free in terms of hate, but if Sakurai is looking f\

None of the bolded characters would "draw in a wider audience for smash".
.

well its a good thing all my dlc choices arent for that. you have to acknowledge this rabid fanbase or it will lose its collective ****. dlc of only 3rd party will be hated by a vocal minority but no 3rd party appearances wont have the same effect that smash 4 dlc had.

 

[Michele]

“I don’t think it’s reasonable to make someone pay for a game and then prepare a network connection and charge a monthly fee.” -Satoru Iwata.
Whoever came up with this Paid online needs to be fired. Even though I may or may not like this, I'll get it anyways.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Hell i'm a supporter of Shadow and I 100% agree with this statement. Ken is really iconic to gaming and even E-Sports as a whole.

I can't wait for someone to do this with perfect shielding in Smash Ultimate.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Vergeben being right so far is a huge part of why I refuse to believe 2 and not 3 left.

I for one can't see how he'd get everything right, but ONE character, especially when even the box art theory people are using two of his characters to champion their theory.

I mean...how are you gonna use him to champion your theory, but write off one of his claims? You can't have both worlds.

 

[Knight Dude]

Echo Fighters should be renamed Kens, anyway.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Echo Fighters should be renamed Kens, anyway.

Hey I get it because Ken is the first and original Echo Fighter.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

This is how Smash Ultimate speculation dies... not with a bang, but with a box.

 

[Luigi The President]

Vergeben being right so far is a huge part of why I refuse to believe 2 and not 3 left.

I for one can't see how he'd get everything right, but ONE character, especially when even the box art theory people are using two of his characters to champion their theory.

I mean...how are you gonna use him to champion your theory, but write off one of his claims? You can't have both worlds.

People are switching to the "SE = DLC" train of thought which makes a good amount of sense, but the issue is that it feels that's being done simply to work with the box theory.

Vergeben seems to reassure us he is indeed very confident SE is getting a rep in his most recent point. He does leave it ambiguous if it's DLC or not, but he's working on finding out.

 

[-crump-]

Nintendo isn’t going to improve their service. It’s going to sell, regardless of the complaints it’s getting, and Nintendo is going to rake in the free money, add a few new NES games every other month, and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

Yeah, I’m a very cynical person by nature, but I seriously don’t see a world where Nintendo actually responds to the criticism in any major capacity. The online is cheap, and that’s all they are banking on.


EDIT:
Box theory is so stupid I don’t get why people are even giving it the time of day. It’s a box for an unfinished product. It can and will be changed.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo’s consumers extend way beyond Japan. They would miss out on a lot of extra cash if they cut it short. If they don’t actively attempt to improve the service after recidivist additional payment, I’m out. I don’t think the rest of us will be too much different. They’d be the laughingstock if online gaming ten fold.

If anything, I can at least see them figuring out what to improve in the back, because there HAS to be some department that feeds devs and big-heads the feedback we give them, like with Smash Ultimate's current state with toggles, no region locking, etc, so I wouldn't really lose hope just yet.
I can see this being the "3DS" of the Switch where it's a really rocky start, but they listen and improve upon what feedback they get.

 

[Chrono.]

This is how Smash Ultimate speculation dies... not with a bang, but with a box.

Now we know how Brad Pitt felt.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Nintendo isn’t going to improve their service. It’s going to sell, regardless of the complaints it’s getting, and Nintendo is going to rake in the free money, add a few new NES games every other month, and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

Yeah, I’m a very cynical person by nature, but I seriously don’t see a world where Nintendo actually responds to the criticism in any major capacity. The online is cheap, and that’s all they are banking on.

I agree with this entirely, I don't see them improving it besides having games with actual good Netcode since they're getting better with that via Mario Kart and Splatoon.

Smash Ultimate remains to be seen however.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

People are switching to the "SE = DLC" train of thought which makes a good amount of sense, but the issue is that it feels that's being done simply to work with the box theory.

Vergeben seems to reassure us he is indeed very confident SE is getting a rep in his most recent point. He does leave it ambiguous if it's DLC or not, but he's working on finding out.

That's the whole thing about using Vergeben that bugs the **** out of me with that theory.

''Obviously he's right but it's just DLC."

Stop assuming things to make your theory right.

 

[Michele]

Nintendo isn’t going to improve their service. It’s going to sell, regardless of the complaints it’s getting, and Nintendo is going to rake in the free money, add a few new NES games every other month, and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

Yeah, I’m a very cynical person by nature, but I seriously don’t see a world where Nintendo actually responds to the criticism in any major capacity. The online is cheap, and that’s all they are banking on.


EDIT:
Box theory is so stupid I don’t get why people are even giving it the time of day. It’s a box for an unfinished product. It can and will be changed.

I agree with that box theory.

But...Can I please get a honest answer? Brawl's online was very bad. Smash 4, although problem still remains, has had the online significantly improved in my experience. How do you explain this?

 

[Nethermoosen]

It might. It might not. Nintendo already has a ****ton of money in its coffers so paying for this online is wholly unnecessary especially when much smaller game studios have had far better online without having an unnecessary fee and trying to justify it with barely any features.

I'm of the opinion that if Nintendo truly wanted to improve their online services, they would've done so by now.

I’m of the opinion they are rooted in tradition. They also kept their sites on being unique since the Wii. They wanted to keep a niche and be something no other company was. It just didn’t all work out as well as they hoped. I think they’re throwing in the towel and deciding it’s time. I don’t know why they would want to spend much money on something they weren’t having anyone pay for in the first place.

They will be dry in the communications department. And the friend code thing is still kind of crap. But $40 less and improving servers and connectivity is worth $20 to me. Easily.

Or. OR. I will boycott Nintendo. Freaking rage.

 

[Luigi The President]

That's the whole thing about using Vergeben that bugs the **** out of me with that theory.

''Obviously he's right but it's just DLC."

Stop assuming things to make your theory right.

See there were good reasons to believe the SE rep may be DLC but I feel his most recent post changes a lot. It's very up in the air right now. It seems they'd be base game but it's hard to tell.

 

[Misery Brick]

Vergeben being right so far is a huge part of why I refuse to believe 2 and not 3 left.

I for one can't see how he'd get everything right, but ONE character, especially when even the box art theory people are using two of his characters to champion their theory.

I mean...how are you gonna use him to champion your theory, but write off one of his claims? You can't have both worlds.

This is literally one of the biggest faults with the box theory.
Like I get that people are proposing that there's only two characters left, based off the design, however you can't cherry pick from a source to help your theory.
That's literally confirmation bias.

You have to stick to the idea of two characters, or to the claims of Verge saying there's three characters.
There's no actual basis to assume that the SE character is DLC.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Echo Fighters should be renamed Kens, anyway.

We got Ken Roy, Ken Samus, Ken Pit, Ken Marth, Ken Simon and Ken Peach.

And then probably Ken Ryu.
I like it.

 

[MrSmashFour]

And Ken is way more iconic of a character than Shadow

lol



no


I'm not heavily inclined either way to Sonic or Street Fighter and I can assure you more people will have heard of Shadow the Hedgehog than "Ken from Street Fighter"

Not that I don't think Ken is likely, though. He probably is - in the grand scheme of things, as you said, he is the original "echo fighter". But he's definitely not anywhere near as recognisable as Shadow.

 

[ZephyrZ]

It might. It might not. Nintendo already has a ****ton of money in its coffers so paying for this online is wholly unnecessary especially when much smaller game studios have had far better online without having an unnecessary fee and trying to justify it with barely any features.

I'm of the opinion that if Nintendo truly wanted to improve their online services, they would've done so by now.

Yeah, I'm sure they could afford to hand out free copies of Ultimate as well.

They're still a buisness and they still need to be motivated by profit to really improve or expand upon something. Just because they could doesn't mean we should always expect them to.

And besides, wasn't the Wii U online already an improvement from the Wii?

 

[Luigi The President]

lol



no


I'm not heavily inclined either way to Sonic or Street Fighter and I can assure you more people will have heard of Shadow the Hedgehog than "Ken from Street Fighter"

I can assure you that you're playing a fools game with how subjective this topic is
Some groups know more of Ken, some more of Shadow