Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dukeofdeath5]

I don't think anybody has any doubts that Bayonetta is gonna be nerfed to hell, back, and then back to hell again, especially with how Sakurai reacted.

If you think sending Bayonetta to hell will stop her you're clearly unfamiliar with her

 

[Opossum]

Something to keep in mind about Assist Trophies being "promoted":
Sakurai doesn't see that as lesser than a character itself.
He still found some way to represent the character in some form, and in the best way that he personally believed he could've shown them off.
Especially after they spent so much time and work with some of them, making them much more active than previous iterations. I seriously doubt he and the team are going to scrap all that work they did just to try to envision them again.

I mean it could happen, but I seriously doubt it'd occur for this iteration.

And my point against that is that Sakurai is clearly malleable in his thought process. DLC development is basically entirely separate from main game development anyway, and is focused on giving more content. A playable character is, objectively, more content than an Assist, and due to the fan outcry they can easily see there is a market for characters like Waluigi.

It doesn't even need to be Waluigi, really, but any Assist. I don't think Sakurai would completely disregard that money fountain just because he made up his mind prior. Characters like Ridley, Chrom, Pac-Man, and Villager show that pretty well. All were characters who, for one reason or another, Sakurai had misgivings about, but upgraded to please fans.

And even then, is it really so hard to "scrap" that one Assist when it's been a thing for three games now? It probably didn't take a lot of work to begin with, and it's not like it was one made for Ultimate specifically.

 

[Pakky]

I'm kind of exaggerating, but I do think he's the worst of the plausible Pokemon. Compared to Litten, Incineroar was a massive disappointment. Worst evolution line, in my opinion, in a very long time. Incineroar is literally the first starter evo that I liked fan designs better than the official one. His hands are hideous, his face looks overdesigned and he's another fire starter that should've stayed a quadruped.
Lycanroc, Mimikyu, Decidueye, Rowlet, Buzzwole, Bewear, Golisopod, Tapu Koko, Marshadow, Poipole and Zeroara would be all better choices imo. And those are all as important or more than Incineroar in the anime (minus Decidueye and Golisopod).

Well, different strokes I guess.

I think Samuirott is the worst starter period, so yeah.

 

[dezeray112]

He has both Litten (now Torracat) and Rowlet, while Lycanroc has been his main fighter alongside Pikachu. Not sure if it has changed 'cause it's been a while since I've watched the anime.

Well, Ash still has the following Pokemon listed above.....

Spoiler

With the exception that he recently released Poipole in the latest episodes and according to a future episode (based on the latest poster), he might be getting an Eevee.

 

[Michele]

It doesn't matter how much the service costs if it isn't worth paying for. Just because a broken couch costs less than a new one doesn't make the broken couch worth buying.

Xbox Gold and PS Plus are twice as much as NS Online but offer more than double of what NS Online offers, and they offer it without the draconian rule Nintendo has.

Did you know your cloud saves will get immediately deleted on NS Online the minute your subscription ends? PS4 doesn't delete them until 6 months after and Xbox doesn't even charge for cloud saves.

Did you know that your family membership requires you to assign roles to everyone on it, because it's designed for parent and children rather than friends? So if you piss off a friend you share your subscription with and they have a higher rank than you in the subscription, they can disable your access to the eShop and some other titles. Like what the **** Nintendo?

Did you know that Sony and Microsoft offer free downloadable games every month for subscription holders, and you get an extra discounts on sales? If you buy enough games at the sale price, the money you save from discounts actually pays for your membership. Meanwhile, we get our Nintendo membership and are granted the privilege of paying extra for controllers and get free cosmetics...

Plus there's voice chat through an app, so you deal with a plethora of wires that is ultimately unnecessary for headphones users if you want to hear your friend and your game through your headset.

And the big selling feature is this library of NES games that people have already played before? The core market for these games are the older people who grew up on these games, but they've already played it before and the younger audiences don't give a damn about 8-bit gaming. I don't even know what this feature is designed to be other than a shoddy replacement of the virtual console, and they even mimicked the slow as molasses roll out of a few titles per month. Hell, Virtual Console at least got new titles every week.

Like hot damn I love my Switch and I've been loyal to Nintendo for twenty years but I'm really tired of how they handle this mess of an Online program. I'm really hoping they don't hit sales targets so they'll be forced to get their **** together to update this sorry excuse of a program to get it in line with the times.

Needless to say, I'm not getting a membership. Just because it's cheap doesn't make it good.

....And this is why I don't want to agrue anymore. Each time I try to defend Nintendo, you or someone will just retaliate and say that it's dumb, that the price doesn't matter and it's still bad.

Honestly, normally I would continue, but seeing as how you're going to continue being a bit...ostinate like this, I will not agrue further. I will still be getting Online membership and I won't let anyone else change my mind. It's your opinion. We have our opinions.

I do agree that it's bad, but I'm still getting it. It's Nintendo's FIRST attempt. I do prefer Nintendo's online over PSN as the latter continually gets a lot of downtimes with a lot of peoples being unable to log in, but still.

 

[Vycoul]

I don't think anybody has any doubts that Bayonetta is gonna be nerfed to hell, back, and then back to hell again, especially with how Sakurai reacted.

I do. For all we know, the infamous reaction didn't even happen. It was literally just one guy who said he saw it, right? I don't put a lot of stock in that.
Even assuming Sakurai did react that way, I'm not positive it will happen. I want it to happen, but it's totally possible she'll still be top tier.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

This community being torn apart by predictions on a dumb box reminds me of a certain Spongebob episode

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Everyone talk about Geno's Mii Costume but they forget about Chocobo.

Also I guess Tails will be playable since Sonic had two Mii costume announced at that time with Knuckles who's now an AT.


Look, I want Geno as much as everyone bcs he looks so ****ing cool. But let's not use the Mii Costume as proof even if there like K.rool/Isabelle/Chrom and Inkling that got playable please ....

Man can you imagine if Chocobo is the rumored Square Enix character? I mean he actually would be a good way to represent all of Final Fantasy and he even has his own spin-off games, but it would be hilarious if he got in to smash as a playable character.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I do agree that it's bad, but I'm still getting it. It's Nintendo's FIRST attempt. I do prefer Nintendo's online over PSN as the latter continually gets a lot of downtimes with a lot of peoples being unable to log in, but still.

First attempt at paid online, certainly not their first attempts at online, but goodness knows they're a decade behind on online stuff.

Not that they aren't trying to improve, but it's good to discuss this, they have a nice price, yes. However the cloud saves and such have been done better since the PS3 era.

 

[kylexv]

So we have not seen the following characters' Final Smashes:

ultrichter:

Which do you think changed? Which do you think are the same as last time?

 

[Guynamednelson]

1. Because its never happened. Just like Third Parties, DLC, Guns, Sexualized characters, and many other things at one point. People like to make up rules and pass them as set in stone when really the rules are......"more like guidelines" to quote a damn good pirate. I want a Cross-series Echo fighter just to laugh when yet another "rule" is broken this go around.

2. "Because then they have stuff on the disc that they would have to disable," even though we can have 8 Ridley's already. "Oh no there are two of the same skin now and my terrible eyes can't tell the difference between a CPU and myself!" So, we can disable (well items in general cause they are obnoxious a day after release ) that specific trophy if the character is selected. Boom. Easy-peasy problem solved. Despite the easy solutions people are gonna pretend that this is still a major issue, for some reason.

I know it would be a nonissue, but even I don't think they'll do it. When I think DLC I'm thinking about big names. If I were Sakurai and I got to choose between looking for a "Cloud" or a "Waluigi" (who I already passed up this game) I would 100% look for a new "Cloud." Then again, maybe the fan outcry would steer Sakurai the other way? I dunno.

I will say its a really bad idea to think this is something that could happen. If you still have hope for Waluigi or Ashley this game you should probably put it out. If Sakurai does some crazy **** and upgrades them for DLC, I will actually cry man tears. Realistically its just not gonna happen though.

One thing to point out is that Croagunk was made playable in Pokken despite being an assist.

 

[Starbound]

do agree that it's bad, but I'm still getting it. It's Nintendo's FIRST attempt. I do prefer Nintendo's online over PSN as the latter continually gets a lot of downtimes with a lot of peoples being unable to log in, but still.

Enjoy your communication errors!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

One potential DLC Assist promotion that I think lots of folks are sleeping on is Lyn. She's incredibly popular, but Intelligent Systems themselves didn't realize it until long after Ultimate's roster was decided.

No FE DLC character is going to get off scot-free in terms of hate, but if Sakurai is looking for another one as DLC, it would be safer and more profitable to go with a past lord with proven popularity and appeal instead of banking on unproven upcoming characters. It doesn't matter how well Three Houses is going to sell because we play as characters, not not just simple "reps".

Because not a one of them actually reps any of the spin-offs?

Peach having the golf club, tennis racket, etc in her moveset does not count.

The sports spin-offs and Mario Kart are some of Nintendo's biggest sellers. They are long overdue proper Smash representation.

Waluigi's FS confirmed to be him just constantly ramming people with a go-kart whilst laughing maniacally.

dlc lineup i expect: xenoblade character, Botw champion, Heihachi, sepiroth (assuming he isnt in base), shantae, fjorm, and chunli. a mix of third party and nintendo. mostly newer characters designed to draw in a wider audience for smash.

None of the bolded characters would "draw in a wider audience for smash".

I just say... let's not and never say it's "obviously" him. There NO Shoe in. Never.

Look at what Happened to Ashley fans who also used the Mii Costume argument.
Now Bandana Dee who top all poll and what not but is nowhere to be seen in any leaks so far...
Or how Shadow was the obvious Echo lock.
Same for Dixie-Kong once we learned that echoes could be somewhat different.

hopefully the box leak is false for all of these fans. But again

NEVER say any Characters is obvious or a shoe-ln. How many times should we say it?

Inkling was the sole shoo-in newcomer for Ultimate.

 

[Opossum]

Starfy would have been great, but he's another character stuck in AT Hell.

Well, different strokes I guess.

I think Samuirott is the worst starter period, so yeah.

What a weird way to spell Delphox.
Samurott and Emboar get way too much hate.

 

[Hinata]

So we have not seen the following characters' Final Smashes:

ultrichter:

Which do you think changed? Which do you think are the same as last time?

ROB, Wii Fit, Greninja, and Robin all have Final Smashes that fit what Ultimate is going for (something quick that does damage right away), so I'm sure they're the same.

 

[Michele]

Enjoy your communication errors!

Is that sarcasm I detect in your voice?

I have never experienced any Communication errors when playing Mario Kart online, though it's from days ago. But I've seen peoples playing alot on Splatoon 2 and not experiencing a lot of issues, if not no errors at all.

 

[Idon]

One thing to point out is that Croagunk was made playable in Pokken despite being an assist.

And that was clearly a bamco decision rather than a Nintendo one.

 

[NintenZ]

I do feel like this month is gonna be back-and-forth about the box art and the Corocoro stage list until we get proper clarification...

Good lord this may be a longer wait then I thought it would...

 

[Nethermoosen]

I severely doubt it ends with Incineroar. He just doesn't know anymore beyond the 3 he has.

Like people are really trying hard to prove this box is completely right and not made by some employee who doesn't have the entire games character list that isn't subject to change when more characters get announced

Actually, they’re trying to disprove it. There just isn’t a conclusion, yet. They aren’t going to get anyone’s hopes up for real without real facts that fight the theory.

Objectivity should not be confused with pessimistic bias.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I do feel like this month is gonna be back-and-forth about the box art and the Corocoro stage list until we get proper clarification...

Good lord this may be a longer wait then I thought it would...

I mean if CoroCoro made a misprint they're required to come forward and state they printed wrong information.

At least that's the way most magazines work.

 

[Vycoul]

I do feel like this month is gonna be back-and-forth about the box art and the Corocoro stage list until we get proper clarification...
Good lord this may be a longer wait then I thought it would...

I'm just glad the Corocoro stage number happened. Nothing but box talk would have made me go insane reading this thread.

 

[ZephyrZ]

The way Nintendo has been handling their Online Service has been...questionable so far, but I personally didn't have that much trouble with the Wii U. I always see people complaining about how laggy and unstable it is, but generally, my laggy online matches have been in the minority. Most of the time my connection is fairly clean. It's not as awful as people always made it out to be, and I'm willing to drop 20$ for it.

But you know what? I'd like to see it improved myself. And every person who's not impressed with it enough to pay for it will just be motivating Nintendo to improve upon in further.

Did you know your cloud saves will get immediately deleted on NS Online the minute your subscription ends? PS4 doesn't delete them until 6 months after and Xbox doesn't even charge for cloud saves.

Just to clarify, they never said that the cloud saves would be deleted the very second it ends, they probably just communicated that poorly. It's more likely they'll delete cloud saves from subscriptions that haven't been payed in a long time just to clear up space. We just don't how long, so it could be immediately or it could be a full year.

Edit: I guess I was wrong about that.

 

[Opossum]

No FE DLC character is going to get off scot-free in terms of hate, but if Sakurai is looking for another one as DLC, it would be safer and more profitable to go with a past lord with proven popularity and appeal instead of banking on unproven upcoming characters. It doesn't matter how well Three Houses is going to sell because we play as characters, not not just simple "reps".



Waluigi's FS confirmed to be him just constantly ramming people with a go-kart whilst laughing maniacally.



None of the bolded characters would "draw in a wider audience for smash".



Inkling was the sole shoo-in newcomer for Ultimate.

I will always say that Isabelle was one as well, even if others disagree. I've always felt she was a lock.

 

[Starbound]

Starfy would have been great, but he's another character stuck in AT Hell.

What a weird way to spell Delphox.
Samurott and Emboar get way too much hate.

I never got people's beef with Delphox. I mean I get the ear hair but is that really what makes people so upset?

#TeamSamurott

 

[Luigi The President]

"I guess I might as well end by saying that if you think this game won't be supported further after launch, well, that's not a smart assumption to make.

The Square Enix character that I heard about is an interesting exception in all of this when it comes to the box theory and my knowledge of there being a character of theirs comes from someone who's never had a habit of being wrong.

Even if that really is all for launch, it's not the end. "

Can someone explain to my dumb baby brain what Vergeben means by this when he says the SE rep is an "exception"?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

"I guess I might as well end by saying that if you think this game won't be supported further after launch, well, that's not a smart assumption to make.

The Square Enix character that I heard about is an interesting exception in all of this when it comes to the box theory and my knowledge of there being a character of theirs comes from someone who's never had a habit of being wrong.

Even if that really is all for launch, it's not the end. "

Can someone explain to my dumb baby brain what Vergeben means by this when he says the SE rep is an "exception"?

I am assuming he's referring to DLC...

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

So we have not seen the following characters' Final Smashes:

ultrichter:

Which do you think changed? Which do you think are the same as last time?

are the only ones from that list I can see having their Final Smashes from Smash Wii U / 3DS completely changed. In terms of Lucario, go back to his Brawl Final Smash except in his Mega Lucario form. Also since, yeah, you forgot him.

:ultrobin either have their Final Smashes stay the exact same or sped up a bit.

I'm guessing will share the character's Final Smash they echo but I would love to be wrong.

No guess on

Also, I had to look up R.O.B.'s newest Final Smash from Wii U & 3DS because I repeatedly forget what it even is.

 

[Sleeps with Butterflies]

"I guess I might as well end by saying that if you think this game won't be supported further after launch, well, that's not a smart assumption to make.

The Square Enix character that I heard about is an interesting exception in all of this when it comes to the box theory and my knowledge of there being a character of theirs comes from someone who's never had a habit of being wrong.

Even if that really is all for launch, it's not the end. "

Can someone explain to my dumb baby brain what Vergeben means by this when he says the SE rep is an "exception"?

I'd say he is saying that if the SE character isn't base, it'll definitely be DLC. FER SHER.

 

[Paperchampion23]

So we have not seen the following characters' Final Smashes:

ultrichter:

Which do you think changed? Which do you think are the same as last time?

Have no reason to be changed, they will likely just be updated with assets. They are all quick and efficient. I don't think any of them hint at additional content personally as well. The only thing I possibly see is Mii Swordfighter getting a more efficient FS/more powerful
:ultrobin
Will likely be the same, just with another FE 13 main character replacing Chrom in his FS, there are a few I can think of.


I can see his being reverted to the Brawl FS (like Pokemon trainer) or getting a new one thats more efficient.

(you forgot him)

All likely need brand new FS's to make them more efficient at K.O's and not controllable (Refer to Wario, Little Mac or Donkey Kong). WFT's just needs to be more deadly like they made Rosalina's


Probably just like Simon's, but perhaps he has a cool unique one to differentiate himself from Simon more


The only one that I see purposefully being hidden for another character possibly like Robin was (maybe skull kid). YL never obtains the triforce, thus it would be weird if he had it. However he could have MM related costumes and a MM related FS with Fierce Deity. Thats my theory.

 

[Deleted member]

"I guess I might as well end by saying that if you think this game won't be supported further after launch, well, that's not a smart assumption to make.

The Square Enix character that I heard about is an interesting exception in all of this when it comes to the box theory and my knowledge of there being a character of theirs comes from someone who's never had a habit of being wrong.

Even if that really is all for launch, it's not the end. "

Can someone explain to my dumb baby brain what Vergeben means by this when he says the SE rep is an "exception"?

Most likely he meant the whole "trying to fit characters on the sides" thing.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Samurott and Emboar get way too much hate.

I never got people's beef with Delphox. I mean I get the ear hair but is that really what makes people so upset?

I have a theory as to why people hate Delphox, Samurott, Emboar and Incineroar.

It's because they look almost nothing like their base forms. Most of their haters are likely just Fennekin/Oshawott/Tepid/Litten fans who don't like how their cute little animals transformed into anthros (aside from Oshawott fans, who have it reversed).

Anyway, Samurott has a very neat design. A sea lion who uses armor and swords made of sea shells? Sign me up.

 

[Hinata]

I'm guessing will share the character's Final Smash they echo but I would love to be wrong.

Please, let Richter's Final Smash be Hyrdo Storm.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Please, let Richter's Final Smash be Hyrdo Storm.

I don't think they'd have done the joke with him on the Pikmin stage doing his pose while it was raining if it was his Final Smash.

 

[Nekoo]

"I guess I might as well end by saying that if you think this game won't be supported further after launch, well, that's not a smart assumption to make.

The Square Enix character that I heard about is an interesting exception in all of this when it comes to the box theory and my knowledge of there being a character of theirs comes from someone who's never had a habit of being wrong.

Even if that really is all for launch, it's not the end. "

Can someone explain to my dumb baby brain what Vergeben means by this when he says the SE rep is an "exception"?

1- The box theory is wrong and more Characters will be added on it/back of it

2-The Square Characters is DLC so not on the box

3- The box Theory is right and there is no Square Characters even if he seems to be a little bit more sure about one being in.

Take ur poison

 

[Starbound]

Just to clarify, they never said that the cloud saves would be deleted the very second it ends, they probably just communicated that poorly. It's more likely they'll delete cloud saves from subscriptions that haven't been payed in a long time just to clear up space. We just don't how long, so it could be immediately or it could be a full year.

From Nintendo UK:

Idk, seems pretty clear to me. Once you stop paying, you don't have your cloud saves. You've still got your local backup, but I honestly wonder if the saves will even be there if you cancel and later repurchase a subscription. I'm doubtful to be quite honest.

Also I should mention the NES games require you to be connected online in order to use them for longer than 7 days. If you're someone like me who does a lot of travelling or camping, it becomes harder than it really needs to be to play these games and unnecessarily handicaps the Switch's versatility.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I never got people's beef with Delphox. I mean I get the ear hair but is that really what makes people so upset?

#TeamSamurott

It's ugly

 

[Tree Gelbman]

He's saying this source is trustworthy typically when it comes to their information.

Thus making the Square rep an exception to the box art theory in his eyes, but he will look further into it to confirm or deconfirm it.

He's also saying there there's definitely going to be DLC, but that's not really a leak, that's just common sense.

 

[Exalt4747]

So we have not seen the following characters' Final Smashes:

ultrichter:

Which do you think changed? Which do you think are the same as last time?

I think Richter's will just be Simon's. It'd be cool if he had something where Maria came in to help.

Captain Falcon's will be the same. It's not fundamentally different from K.rool's or Ridley's.

 

[Iridium]

It's still funny to be knowing this is a thing:

 

[Luigi The President]

He's saying this source is trustworthy typically when it comes to their information.

Thus making the Square rep an exception to the box art theory in his eyes, but he will look further into it to confirm or deconfirm it.

He's also saying there there's definitely going to be DLC, but that's not really a leak, that's just common sense.

What it sounds to me is that this would...kinda disprove the box theory if indeed the SE rep is in base game right??