Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CosmicQuark]

If the extra 5 stages ends up being true, I hope Crafted World is one of them (to replace Woolly World)...

As much as I think that'd be awesome, if Sakurai even touches Crafted World, Ultimate will be delayed to 2019 (sorry, too soon?)

 

[dezeray112]

Ramen Tengoku & papagenos - Thanks for filling me in.

 

[MysticKnives]

I get that point about hiding new stages for new Characters but I still don’t get the point in renaming Mute City though.

 

[Flynn__]

View attachment 164628 corocoro magazine printed 108 stages



View attachment 164629 theres what vergeben said.

I don't know if I really understand what he's saying about the Square character. I suppose he's implying the Square character is going to be DLC?

 

[lightdrago]

A lot’s happened huh. And I see CoroCoro hasn’t said anything if it’s 108 stages or not...

But Verge finally doubled down and confirmed Incineroar. And since I believe in him, that makes me happy. I really hope to see my wrestling fiery tiger Boi kick some ass!

 

[AzureFlame4]

Hhhnggghhh
Sorry, it's just that peoples keep repeating that...Check before they post, amirite?

Corocoro supposedly says there are 108 stages, though it could be a mistake...

Why are people saying it could be a mistake?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Spoiler: Video

This is the video I watched that explained 108 stages.

The remaining stages imo,
Minecraft Stage
Rhythm Heaven
Golden Sun Stage
Tetris
I'm gonna pull a random one and say Aether Paradise

 

[Shroob]

Why are people saying it could be a mistake?

Because the entire article is about the 8.8 Direct. Them casually adding 5 stages to the count is kind of a big deal that's not treated as new info.


And Famitsu, another magazine like it, basically pulls from the same source as it, and still says 103.

 

[Michele]

Why are people saying it could be a mistake?

I'm not sure. I have the exact same question as you. I don't think it's a mistake, but peoples speculate it's likely a error in printing or that the image was photoshopped.

The image was taken in real life, so I don't think it's a error. If it's all true, then Vergeben's claim on a Minecraft content is likely to be a stage.

 

[splat]

It is designed that way, much like Decidueye, because they're literally meant to fill a particular role of hunter. Heck, even Primarina is designed that way because it is a siren that lures it's prey with it's songs

This is a strange argument because all Decidueye's look like they're edgy robin hoods who feel no compassion and Primarina is literally happy go-lucky and elegant and any antonyms being given to their characters would look weird.

I understand they're designed that way - but that doesn't mean the design make sense. Someone design this thing, too. Even if they're designed to hunt in a particular way - why on earth would a monster that has claws the size if its face suplex its foes? It wouldn't, it would cut it up.

If you read the entire thing, I reference all recent starter Pokémon, it isn't specific to Incineroar. I feel the same way about Decidueye and Primarina. I didn't like any of this generation's starters as Pokémon. Their concepts could be worked into a design with a bit more subtlety. Let me put it like this: if Jigglypuff was a recent Pokémon, they'd probably be wearing a tutu since they attack by singing.

There's quite a few Pokémon with exeggerated concepts like those. One of those, Clawitzer, is one of my favorites of all time. It has this insane hand cannon they'd logically use for hunting, but it also works as a monster species.

 

[Shroob]

While I've always believed there's 108 stages, I just think this is a **** up on CoroCoro's part.


The ENTIRE article is about the 8.8 Direct and reviewing its contents, and when it gets to the stage section........108.


Why?

They don't even treat it as a "WHOA!! CHECK THIS OUT! EXCLUSIVE NEWS ON 5 MORE STAGES!"

it's

"There's 108 stages!" like the news is just commonplace.


They'd be literally the first magazine to publish this; how would this not be treated as a big ****ing deal?

 

[Radical Bones]

My final prediction is that there will be three more newcomers and three more Echoes.

I'm a Box-theory denier, which is a ridiculously funny phrase I read on another site.

I don't have any solid predictions for you though, but I am pretty certain Shadow will be an Echo and that there'll be one more big name third party that's not Geno.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Bad news, when printing 103 stages, the 3 was mirrored into an Ɛ3 on every single copy.

Pack it up, hype is dead.

Seriously though, I think it could be a misprint--misprints happen a lot. I think it's odder if it's not a misprint for Famitsu to only include the confirmed 103, than for CoroCoro to have had a misprint. That being said, 5 more stages with a DLC button aligns quite nicely in the negative space on the select screen, and it just feels weird for them to have revealed every stage 5 months in advance.

 

[AzureFlame4]

So, I was reading through the comments of the video I posted earlier and turns out in the video the stages are organized by series and not chronologically. Was this a known thing that could be done?

 

[papagenos]

I don't know if I really understand what he's saying about the Square character. I suppose he's implying the Square character is going to be DLC?

I think what hes saying is that his source for the square rep is not usually wrong so he still thinks a square rep is happening.

he's also saying that of course dlc will almost definitely happen for smash ultimate.

i think theres just a hint of "i cant confirm or deny the box theory because MAYBE the square rep is dlc or something that doesnt necessarily conflict with it."

he firmly beleives ken/incineroar/ and a square rep ARE happening but that because dlc is so likely it doesnt confirm or deny the box theory for him to be aware of THREE characters when the box theory assumes just two. thats all i think he means.

personally i think the square rep is geno AND if the box theory is true, he's still in the base roster just as the FINAL reveal, fighter #70 and maybe even kept off the sides of the box cause its going to be a big final reveal hype ballot choice newcomer type thing.

 

[Glaciacott]

Kind of nice that Vergeben finally went all in on Incineroar. As someone who was wishing for other gen 7 pokemon, it prepares me for not really getting my hopes up.

I guess I could hope it's wrong info, but given Isabelle I think the safest thing to believe right now is that once multiple vergeben sources confirm something it's more likely true.

 

[KMDP]

Bulbapedia: Typhlosion is classified as a quadruped, but it is capable of bipedal movement and is frequently depicted standing on its hind legs.
Charmander: Always Biped
Cyndaquil: Always Quad
And here we go with the fighting-esque fire starters.
Torchic: Always Biped
Chimchar: Always Biped
Tepig: Quad -> Biped -> Biped
Break from the fighting for a psychic fox.
Fenniken: Quad -> Biped -> Biped
Aaaand back to fighting-esque
Litten: Quad -> Quad -> Biped

Litten breaks the cycle a tad, making it look like it'll stay Quad since it evolves to and remains a quad, unlike every other one which either was a quad throughout, biped throughout, or started as a quadruped then switched to biped once it evolved once. So naturally that threw people off.

...What cycle? By that logic, Incineroar should be celebrated for having a Evolution Stance-Change Sequence that isn't like any of the other Fire Starters.

Also, as I said before, we've had Q-Q-B Pokémon lines before (Nidoran, Mudkip and Aron are the best examples).

 

[MSmariosonic]

I don't have any solid predictions for you though, but I am pretty certain Shadow will be an Echo and that there'll be one more big name third party that's not Geno.

I'm in the same boat as you.

I was certain the box theory was true but after given it some thought I think there are at least two more echos to show.

And i'd be surprised if Castlevania is the only new 3rd party franchise in the base roster.

 

[splat]

While I've always believed there's 108 stages, I just think this is a **** up on CoroCoro's part.

I mean, 3 and 8 are kind of similar. In theory, it could've been a case of a note in a silly font/bad handwriting, and an editorial oversight.

 

[Sharkarat]

Incineroar is going to cause a mountain of salt upon his reveal, 10 times worse than what poor Isabelle got.

It would be hard for the final character(s) to not cause salt. even relatively popular characters like Geno and Isaac would cause salt for one reason or another.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I understand they're designed that way - but that doesn't mean the design make sense. Someone design this thing, too. Even if they're designed to hunt in a particular way - why on earth would a monster that has claws the size if its face suplex its foes? It wouldn't, it would cut it up.

If you read the entire thing, I reference all recent starter Pokémon, it isn't specific to Incineroar. I feel the same way about Decidueye and Primarina. I didn't like any of this generation's starters as Pokémon. Their concepts could be worked into a design with a bit more subtlety. Let me put it like this: if Jigglypuff was a recent Pokémon, they'd probably be wearing a tutu since they attack by singing.

There's quite a few Pokémon with exeggerated concepts like those. One of those, Clawitzer, is one of my favorites of all time. It has this insane hand cannon they'd logically use for hunting, but it also works as a monster species.

Eh, to each their own.

Simplicity isn't great to me, although I can see your points, but I just prefer the ones with more depth and established personalities that can be seen in their designs.

Incineroar is a cocky fighter that likes to play dirty, but this doesn't take away from it's skill and lethality as seen by it's sharp claws, fangs, intimidating design, and intense, fiery passion.

 

[Shroob]

I mean, 3 and 8 are kind of similar. In theory, it could've been a case of a note in a silly font/bad handwriting, and an editorial oversight.

It almost has to be.

They'd be the very first magazine, ever, to report on this.

How they just treat it as "Something everyone knows" instead of acting like it's a huge deal is very odd.


I'm sure the Japanese Smash scene is going even more mental than we are right now over this.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Verge confirming Incineroar makes me very happy. I chose Litten in Sun and Moon because I always wanted a fire cat starter. I despised Rowlet for being the popular one, and I was scared that Decidueye could've been the Gen 7 rep. Now the tables seemed to have turned. I mean yeah, Decidueye joined the fight alongside other Pokemon in Pokken. But I'm pretty sure the much bigger honor is to join the fight alongside some Nintendo All Stars.

 

[lizard1929]

If Gen 8 happens next year Incineroar is gonna drop like a rock with only 1 year on the smash podium. Greninja had 2 years in smash before gen 7 killed his interest (and xyz finals).

 

[Meritocracy]

What would your reaction be if the gen 7 rep was the water starter?
Excited, I always prefer the water type

 

[Heatswave]

I think what hes saying is that his source for the square rep is not usually wrong so he still thinks a square rep is happening.

he's also saying that of course dlc will almost definitely happen for smash ultimate.

i think theres just a hint of "i cant confirm or deny the box theory because MAYBE the square rep is dlc or something that doesnt necessarily conflict with it."

he firmly beleives ken/incineroar/ and a square rep ARE happening but that because dlc is so likely it doesnt confirm or deny the box theory for him to be aware of THREE characters when the box theory assumes just two. thats all i think he means.

personally i think the square rep is geno AND if the box theory is true, he's still in the base roster just as the FINAL reveal, fighter #70 and maybe even kept off the sides of the box cause its going to be a big final reveal hype ballot choice newcomer type thing.

This, I feel like Vergeben lines up to well with the box art theory. Geno would at least be a hype last reveal.
My expectations are now pretty low, I don't care about Ken, but I'm actually salty about Incineroar as he is the most boring choice imaginable for a new Pokemon rep in my opinion. Geno would be fine, but I have no personal connection with him...
If Geno is actually DLC it's a really dumb move by Nintendo to reveal Incineroar as the last fighter. It's equally strategical unwise to reveal 5 characters in the first Smash direct, as they could have anticipated that would spark unrealistically high expectation for the number of remainig fighters. But perhaps Spirit mode will blow everyone away with being a great storymode and Nintendo is banking on that for a last hype factor...

The 108 stages thing is probably a mistake, although, shouldn't the magazine clear that up? I don't know how this works in Japan, but as far as I know the obviously way to deal with such a mistake would be to release a correcting statement...

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Bad news, when printing 103 stages, the 3 was mirrored into an Ɛ3 on every single copy.

Pack it up, hype is dead.

Seriously though, I think it could be a misprint--misprints happen a lot. I think it's odder if it's not a misprint for Famitsu to only include the confirmed 103, than for CoroCoro to have had a misprint. That being said, 5 more stages with a DLC button aligns quite nicely in the negative space on the select screen, and it just feels weird for them to have revealed every stage 5 months in advance.

Do you have proof of this?

 

[Nekoo]

What if the Square rep being a last surprise DLC was the only way they could get that Characters in because Square is stingy and wanted royalties for that Characters?

 

[Curious Villager]

The only thing I'm not too fond with Inceneroar is that it more or less is everything I was hoping we wouldn't get this time for a Pokemon newcomer. Which is another humanoid/anthromon and another starter. For a series with a lot of unique and diverse looking creature designs. Getting another character like that just feels a bit more like a missed opportunity.

At this point, if he does make it in, I just hope people aren't going to start rallying for another Grass starter again for the next game or DLC just for the sake of completing a double trifecta or something...

 

[Shroob]

Do you have proof of this?

There's no proof since CoroCoro hasn't said anything yet.

But the fact they don't hype up this at all, while having the article focus entirely on the 8.8 Direct is incredibly odd.



You'd think a magazine with exclusive info would make a huge deal of it.

 

[Meritocracy]

Question, didn't Vergeben leak shadow? If so, what happened to that?

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

It almost has to be.

They'd be the very first magazine, ever, to report on this.

How they just treat it as "Something everyone knows" instead of acting like it's a huge deal is very odd.


I'm sure the Japanese Smash scene is going even more mental than we are right now over this.

I'm hoping if it was a mistake a clarification will be made in the next day or two. I'd rather not be waiting until the next direct to hear there isn't any more stages.

This is the opposite of the Box Theory basically. Hypes me up but had the potential to be a mistake / oversight that will dissapoint me.

Question, didn't Vergeben leak shadow? If so, what happened to that?

Nope, never did.

 

[Ultinarok]

If Gen 8 happens next year Incineroar is gonna drop like a rock with only 1 year on the smash podium. Greninja had 2 years in smash before gen 7 killed his interest (and xyz finals).

He had a time to shine in Gen 7 because Battle Bond Greninja was part of Sun and Moon's advertising. You got one in the demo and got to keep it in the main game if you played. Greninja also continued to dominate competitive in both Protean and BB forms. He never faded away.

 

[Shroob]

Question, didn't Vergeben leak shadow? If so, what happened to that?

Verg has never said anything on anyone besides Incineroar, Ken and the 2nd SE character at this point.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Question, didn't Vergeben leak shadow? If so, what happened to that?

If Shadow is an echoe, it whipes the floor with the box art theory. Shadow still can be unique though, because the box art theory only tells us,72 slots with one of them being an echoe(most likely Ken) in the Palutena till Cloud row and one unique newcomer, but not who that unique newcomer is

 

[Majora's Visage]

i think people dont like that he's bipedal when the evolutionary line appeared like it wouldnt be at the end.

he's a "fighter"...not fire/fighting type but still its the fire/fighting starter thing AGAIN since he's still that "theme".

and for me particularly anyway his hands are really odd. why they want with 5 fingers i'll never know it really stands out in an uncanny valley kind of way.

I dont hate his design, i think its not great but i dont hate it, but those three things are generally what i hear people complain about. i do however think for smash his moveset could be really great cause he could be a grappler/wrestler and that is interesting as we dont have one.

As a huge Pokemon fan, those are pretty much the reasons why people dislike Incineroar, in that they didn't live up to their expectations. People were also dissapointed he loses Speed because it is so important in the metagame and they were dissapointed that Incineroar actually loses speed on evolving favoring bulk instead. Conversely, he is actually one of the top pokemon in VGC because of great typing, ability, and movepool.

I honestly love Incineroar. He is based off of the Tiger Mask manga. Tiger Mask is a heel wrester that wears a tiger mask. My understanding of why his hands are so big is because Tigers are the largest cats in the world, are extremely muscular and they actually have huge paws. Additionally, they have a 5th claw on their paw called a dewclaw, similar to other cats which kind of translates to 5 fingers.

I thought he was brilliantly designed thematically. Though I think what would in improve his design is to actually thicken up his wrists. Overall, I think he is the perfect Gen7 rep. He has great VGC represenation, everyone knows him, he has anime/movie prescense, he can bring a wrestling/ grappling playstyle and he does his job as a heel extremely well.

 

[Meritocracy]

Verg has never said anything on anyone besides Incineroar, Ken and the 2nd SE character at this point.

Hm. I swear I remember some huge discussion about the charcters Vergeben leaked,mans Shadow being in it.
Guess the voice in my head was playing tricks on me again

What would your reaction be if the gen 7 rep was the water starter?
Excited, I always prefer the water type

I'll just slap this here to keep the post relevant

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

What if the Square rep being a last surprise DLC was the only way they could get that Characters in because Square is stingy and wanted royalties for that Characters?

Ya know? It's Square... Would'nt be suprised

 

[Nonno Umby]

While I've always believed there's 108 stages, I just think this is a **** up on CoroCoro's part.


The ENTIRE article is about the 8.8 Direct and reviewing its contents, and when it gets to the stage section........108.


Why?

They don't even treat it as a "WHOA!! CHECK THIS OUT! EXCLUSIVE NEWS ON 5 MORE STAGES!"

it's

"There's 108 stages!" like the news is just commonplace.


They'd be literally the first magazine to publish this; how would this not be treated as a big ****ing deal?

Because Corocoro isn't a gossip magazine that talks about rumors or leaks. They are more an elaborate advertisement for games rather than an actual newspaper about giving away news.

It surely is a mistake on the writer part, but we have yet to see is if this mistake was just typing in the wrong number, or not realizing he was using information not yet to be revealed to the pubblic. Both could really well be true (and personally I belive he didn't just confused a 3 with an 8).

 

[BluePikmin11]

Looks like I'm going to get a prediction wrong soon with Vergeben crushing my Lycanroc bet.

And as for that CoroCoro thing, I am going to take it with a grain of salt. If it is true though, I expect the one or two or even three of my new series predictions to be wrong.

My unique newcomer prediction streak is gonna falter now, haha!