Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chrono.]

-snip-

I mean he's better off asking Push as I don't got proof on me.

 

[Noipoi]

Everytime the box or chair theory is brought up, I lose a day off my life

In that case you'd already be dead.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Basically me looking at this thread being filled with stuff about this dumb box theory:

Honestly, it's a load of bull. Only 2 characters? It doesn't seem right, when we still have yet to see plenty of certain notable candidates for the roster show up at all. Where's the Shadow, Skull Kid, and Isaac assist trophies? What about Bandana Dee not appearing in Dedede's Final Smash? What about that toy machine gun that Sakurai got for reference, who is it for? Why haven't we seen these other 5 stages yet? And so on. All I'm getting from the box is that we're gonna get AT LEAST 2 more fighters, end of story.

 

[Shroob]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/489284917834809344/490751551053365303/image0.jpg


The damndest thing is Push is 100% right.


They even say in big bold 71 CHARACTERS just like the official website did pre-Isabelle.



This reeks of a ****up to be brutally honest. Why would they have the then current amount of characters right but the stage number wrong?

 

[Luigi The President]

Fellas I'm going to bed @ me if there's any substantial news on this whole Corocoro debacle

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Everytime the box or chair theory is brought up, I lose a day off my life

This just in, next newcomer leaked

I give you the Box Chair

 

[Will]

What about Bandana Dee not appearing in Dedede's Final Smash?

That's both unrelated and it neither supports or dejects BWD's potential inclusion, because WHY WOULD YOU SHOW HIM IN THE BACKGROUND IF THEY DIDN'T EVEN ADD A BACKGROUND BEHIND THE CAGE FOR PEOPLE TO SIT

Sorry man, that specific reason gets on my nerves.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/489284917834809344/490751551053365303/image0.jpg


The damndest thing is Push is 100% right.


They even say in big bold 71 CHARACTERS just like the official website did pre-Isabelle.



This reeks of a ****up to be brutally honest. Why would they have the then current amount of characters right but the stage number wrong?

Errr I don't see 71 anywhere? Is it perhaps in Japanese because I don't know that language.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That's both unrelated and it neither supports or dejects BWD's potential inclusion, because WHY WOULD YOU SHOW HIM IN THE BACKGROUND IF THEY DIDN'T EVEN ADD A BACKGROUND BEHIND THE CAGE FOR PEOPLE TO SIT

Sorry man, that specific reason gets on my nerves.

OMG I'm not the only one.

That "evidence" doesn't make sense

 

[hazza5557]

Was the box art rumour deconfirmed?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Is Kamek the Bandanda Waddle Dee of Mario?

Pretty much. He was defined better in the western version. He does need a new design, but yeah, the difference is two separate characters with similar designs. I think he has a more defined Paper Mario series appearance, but I forget.

 

[Shroob]

Errr I don't see 71 anywhere? Is it perhaps in Japanese because I don't know that language.

..............Look to the right, dude.


Do you need glasses?

 

[Idon]

You guys want a game? I'll have you something to do: the Equalitarian Smash Roster. All currently represented franchises MUST have 3 and ONLY characters(when applicable), be them Unique or Echoes.
If a franchise has more than 3, you can only cut until it goes down to 3, if there are less, you need to fill those spots with newcomers.
Additionally, you may add up to three franchises, and all must come with 3 characters.
For example:

Spoiler

(Kamek)(Poochy)


(e Black Shadow)(Samurai Goroh)

(gotta love loopholes)
:ultrobin
(Porky)



(Isabelle)(Tom Nook)
(Elma)(Rex & Pyra)
(e Octoling)(Squid Sisters)
(King Hippo)(Doc Louis)
(e Alph)(Plasm Wraith)
(e Shadow)(Tails)
(Raiden)(Revolver Ocelot)
(e Proto Man)(Zero)
(e Ms.Pac-Man)(The Ghosts)
(e Ken)(Chun-Li)
(TerraCeles)(Warrior of Light)
(e Jeanne)(I'm sure there's more but I never played Bayonetta so god help me I'm scared)
(Alucard)

New franchises:
The Wonderful 101: (Wonder-Red)(e Prince Vorkken)(Wonder-Blue)
Etrian Odyssey: (Protector)(Highlander)(Fafnire)
Chrono Trigger: (Crono)(Marle)(Lucca)

Non-applicable


hopefully I didn't forget anyone

Spoiler: dumb list

, Kamek, Poochy


, Black Shadow, Samurai Goroh


, Lyn (Of course)
Ninten,


, Hades
, Isabelle, Tom Nook
, Elma, Rex and Pyra/Mythra
, Octoling, Calie and Marie
, Doc Louis, Sandman
, Alph, Plasm Wraith
, Knuckles, Tails Team Hero represent
, Raiden, Big Boss
, Protoman, Bass
, Chun-Li, M. Bison
Onion Knight, Ramza, Ace
, Rodin, Balder
, Alucard, Dracula

Megami Tensei: Kazuya, Raidou Kuzunoha XIV, Minato Arisato
Ninja Gaiden: Ryu Hayabusa, Ayane, Yaiba
No More Heroes: Travis Touchdown, Henry Cooldown, Badman

 

[Chrono.]

Pretty much. He was defined better in the western version. He does need a new design, but yeah, the difference is two separate characters with similar designs. I think he has a more defined Paper Mario series appearance, but I forget.

Is this distinct enough?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

..............Look to the right, dude.


Do you need glasses?

Excuse me but I happen to wear glasses you know. I see it now though.

 

[Luigi The President]

Pretty much. He was defined better in the western version. He does need a new design, but yeah, the difference is two separate characters with similar designs. I think he has a more defined Paper Mario series appearance, but I forget.

You'd be correct on the Paper Mario part.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Mario RPG was the only game that did Kamek right

 

[Will]

OMG I'm not the only one.

That "evidence" doesn't make sense

The only thing shown behind the cages are lights. There's not even a place where you could potentially get a good look at anyone sitting down if they added it because the camera zooms in so hard on the smackdown.

 

[Nonno Umby]

You guys want a game? I'll have you something to do: the Equalitarian Smash Roster. All currently represented franchises MUST have 3 and ONLY characters(when applicable), be them Unique or Echoes.
If a franchise has more than 3, you can only cut until it goes down to 3, if there are less, you need to fill those spots with newcomers.
Additionally, you may add up to three franchises, and all must come with 3 characters.
For example:

Spoiler

(Kamek)(Poochy)


(e Black Shadow)(Samurai Goroh)

(gotta love loopholes)
:ultrobin
(Porky)



(Isabelle)(Tom Nook)
(Elma)(Rex & Pyra)
(e Octoling)(Squid Sisters)
(King Hippo)(Doc Louis)
(e Alph)(Plasm Wraith)
(e Shadow)(Tails)
(Raiden)(Revolver Ocelot)
(e Proto Man)(Zero)
(e Ms.Pac-Man)(The Ghosts)
(e Ken)(Chun-Li)
(TerraCeles)(Warrior of Light)
(e Jeanne)(I'm sure there's more but I never played Bayonetta so god help me I'm scared)
(Alucard)

New franchises:
The Wonderful 101: (Wonder-Red)(e Prince Vorkken)(Wonder-Blue)
Etrian Odyssey: (Protector)(Highlander)(Fafnire)
Chrono Trigger: (Crono)(Marle)(Lucca)

Non-applicable


hopefully I didn't forget anyone

(Poochi)(Kamek)





(King Boo)(Strambic) New Series: Luigi's Mansion
(Porky)
(Black Shadow)(Dr. Steward)
(Polar Bear) (Topi)
ultlucina:
(Ms. Game and Watch) (Octopus)
(Hades)
(Ashley)(Mona)
(Revolver Ocelot)(Cyborg Raiden)
(Tails)(Eggman)
(Louie)(Bulborb)
(Dr. Hector)(Ancient Minister)
:ultIsabelleTom Nook)
(Roll)(Dr. Wily)
(Wii Balance Board)(Fit Pig)
(Von Kaiser) (Glass Joe)

(Elma)(Rex and Pyra)
(Hunter)(Wild Gunman)
(Chun Li)(Cammy)
(Terra)(Moogle)
(Jeanne)(Balder)
(Octoling)(Judd)
(Alucard)
New Series
-Rhythm Heaven (Chorus Kids)(Tibby)(Rhythm Girl)
-Shantae (Shantae)(Risky Boots)(Rottytops)

 

[Kaeltor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/489284917834809344/490751551053365303/image0.jpg


The damndest thing is Push is 100% right.


They even say in big bold 71 CHARACTERS just like the official website did pre-Isabelle.



This reeks of a ****up to be brutally honest. Why would they have the then current amount of characters right but the stage number wrong?

Google translate is telling me the Japanese characters before 71 say "currently" so it's not saying that's the final roster size, but rather that's the number of total characters revealed so far (I'm not even sure the math checks out, maybe counting pk trnr as 3 characters?).

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The only thing shown behind the cages are lights. There's not even a place where you could potentially get a good look at anyone sitting down.

It doesn't even look like the same cage

 

[PushDustIn]

I think its important to see if CoroCoro regularly makes these kinds of mistakes.

PushDustIn

Do they?

Ask Joe, I don't follow CoroCoro.

 

[Shroob]

Google translate is telling me the Japanese characters before 71 say "currently" so it's not saying that's the final roster size, but rather that's the number of total characters revealed so far (I'm not even sure the math checks out, maybe counting pk trnr as 3 characters?).

That's fine, that's not the point I'm making.


It has the then current character count right.....but the stage count wrong?


Something doesn't add up.


This thing literally only has info from the 8.8 Direct, why would it say there's 5 more unannounced stages when 8.8 gave us the 103 number?

 

[Luigi The President]

Ask Joe, I don't follow CoroCoro.

Hi Dust! That's all. Take care!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

LOL then

Serebii does Coro Coro make those kind of mistakes

 

[CosmicQuark]

It's always possible that it is a misprint, which is why we should hype responsibly. That being said, while the negative space in the stage select screen isn't evidence of more stages, it is a strange design choice, and if the 108 stage count was a misprint, it's odd it neatly lines up with how many spaces were left if we include a space for a DLC button.

No evidence, but it is *weird*. Similarly to Sakurai's statements concerning Ultimate's stage count being ambiguous, despite it being *weird* how definitive the overall segment felt. My guess is that the final Direct was big enough that Sakurai wanted to tout "more than 100 stages" in the August Direct along with nearly 900 music tracks. Possible, but also highly optimistic and I must remain skeptical. On the other hand, if there were more stages, why would he not say to expect a few more stages, as he did with characters?

It's nice to speculate about, even if it turns out to just be a misprint. I feel this is much more interesting to speculate about, as the only possibility I can think of this not being true is if it were a misprint (in addition to Sakurai's seemingly definitive statement on the stage count). Whereas with the Box Theory, there's multiple reasons why it could be false (e.g., could be a placeholder, why have characters in stacks of 9 when there are only 6 slots per row creating discontinuities in each row, more characters could be revealed after the box's art is finalized, the box art may not be finalized and shift/resize to fit characters accordingly, etc). It's not confirmation bias if one hypothesis (not actually a theory) has more evidence against it than the other. Though, it is confirmation bias to ignore evidence that does not support your prior assumptions, while only considering evidence that does support them.

As always, skeptical, but optimistic.

 

[Potato_]

Google translate is telling me the Japanese characters before 71 say "currently" so it's not saying that's the final roster size, but rather that's the number of total characters revealed so far (I'm not even sure the math checks out, maybe counting pk trnr as 3 characters?).

I think his point is why would they reveal the amount of stages in the game at all? If there was more why mention it?It does make more sense for them to simply repeat what was in the direct, UNLESS they specifically were given this new information to share. I'm not sure how likely this is, because while CoroCoro does sometimes announce stuff for games first, it's typically Pokemon.

What I will say though, is that it would have to be a pretty big oversight for them to miss a giant 108 on there.

 

[Will]

This thing literally only has info from the 8.8 Direct, why would it say there's 5 more unannounced stages when 8.8 gave us the 103 number?

We can always go back to my tinfoil on that they're assuming it based off of how much space is available.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

So, one of the most important details you shouldn't **** up that's glaringly obvious and given emphasis was just an "oopsie!"?

Call it a **** up, but I say it was insider info that just got leaked.

But I honestly have no real stance on this. Would like it to be true, but there's credit to everything for and against it.

 

[Kaeltor]

That's fine, that's not the point I'm making.


It has the then current character count right.....but the stage count wrong?


Something doesn't add up.


This thing literally only has info from the 8.8 Direct, why would it say there's 5 more unannounced stages when 8.8 gave us the 103 number?

Oh ok, I misunderstood your point. Yeah I agree it's weird, and the number 3 isn't all that different from 8 so I could see it being a typo. I'm going to approach it with the same skepticism I approached the "dreaded" box theory with.

 

[Chrono.]

Putting in corocoro misprint or corocoro mistake on Google and the first few results on both searches is people already talking about 108 stages.

That was fast.

 

[Shroob]

We can always go back to my tinfoil on that they're assuming it based off of how much space is available.

Of course there's always been room, but it makes zero sense.

If the article covers 8,8, which it does, there's zero reason for them to 'make assumptions'. Sakurai said "103" in the Direct, and that's the number they should have gave.



Of course, I honestly believe there's going to be 108 due to how much room there is, but this isn't an 'oopsie', this may be a genuine **** up on their part.

 

[Icedragonadam]

http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/06...accompanied-humankind-for-thousands-of-years/

Yeah so 108 is a very significant number in general for various cultures. This makes a lot of sense of why there would be 108 stages in the base game.

 

[Idon]

I'm gonna use Occam's razor here.

Was Corocoro given info outside of the 8/8 direct in the article? No
Would Nintendo give Corocoro exclusive info on the amount of stages to be revealed in a Japanese-exclusive magazine? Probably not.
Is it possible that they counted the number of "slots" in the image and inferred the final amount of stages based on that info? Yes.

I doubt Corocoro is correct in this, though if Nintendo decided to do another 50 fact whatever, it'd certainly be disappointing if there were no stages to be shown off.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Now while this Corocoro leak doesn't totally disconfirm the box theory, I'd still say it has points against it. Not all evidence comes in black or white you know.
I'm starting to lean against the box theory again, but I'm still not going to totally reject the idea either.

 

[Will]

http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/06...accompanied-humankind-for-thousands-of-years/

Yeah so 108 is a very significant number in general for various cultures. This makes a lot of sense of why there would be 108 stages in the base game.

Are you implying Smash is important to mankind?

 

[Pakky]

It doesn't even look like the same cage

View attachment 164610

Well is the final Smash NOT referencing this scene?

 

[Idon]

http://www.ancientpages.com/2017/06...accompanied-humankind-for-thousands-of-years/

Yeah so 108 is a very significant number in general for various cultures. This makes a lot of sense of why there would be 108 stages in the base game.

I really doubt they're going to go with the symbolic Buddhist sacred number for a goddamn stage count.

 

[Chrono.]

Are you implying Smash is important to mankind?

Smash is mankind.

 

[92MilesPrower]

The only thing shown behind the cages are lights. There's not even a place where you could potentially get a good look at anyone sitting down if they added it because the camera zooms in so hard on the smackdown.

...I somehow never realized it until now. Huh. That's a mistake on my part.

But the point still stands for the other characters, especially with Shadow and Skull Kid. The Moon and Knuckles appearing as ATs with no sign of them so far is very suspicious...