Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Buzzwole]

Three Echoes
Ken (Ryu)
Shadow (Sonic)
Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong)

Three Unique
Incineroar
Elma
Geno

Those are pretty damn safe predictions and I'd be 100% okay with them. I'd prefer Buzzwole over Incineroar, and I think Isaac is more likely than Elma, but this is very realistic imo.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

After Smash 4's release, there were only three things people were upset about:
1. No Ridley
2. No K. Rool
3. The cuts (and lack of returnees)

If this is indeed the final base roster, we got every veteran ever to come back, as well as both Ridley and K. Rool. After Smash 4, I was very pessimistic on Ridley ever making it in. We got the two most highly requested newcomers during much of pre-Smash 4, Castlevania joining the fray (with a lot of content to boot), and not a single veteran being cut (with even the likes of Pichu and Young Link returning).

I bet if you went back in time four years ago, (when Smash 4 was first released) and told your past self that this would be the base roster for the next game and that it was causing outrage because "it was not enough", I bet most of your past selves would view the Smash Bros. fanbase of 2018 as being filled with the most petulant and spoiled babies of all gaming fandom.

Every veteran ever. Ridley. K. Rool. Castlevania. New icons like Inkling and Isabelle. And bones thrown to fanbases that did not lead the back (but were certainly there), Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus. Even Ken (assuming he is in) himself is an all-star especially for a franchise with as much clone characters as the Smash Bros. series. Sakurai did the best he could with only an allotment of 11 newcomers and only five truly unique newcomer slots, and yet created something very satisfactory.

There are no potential newcomers that had the level of support that K. Rool and Ridley did back during Smash 4 that did not end up making it in. The closest is maaaaaaybe Bandanna Dee and that is only on the Japanese side of things. Isaac is the closest one on the Western side, and even then he falls short of what Ridley, K. Rool, and Mewtwo were during pre-Smash 4 (both Ridley and K. Rool had support topic views into the MILLIONS).

Inkling and Isabelle covered things from the casual perspective (though Inkling certainly did have a ton of requests from core Smash Bros. fans), while Ridley and K. Rool were obviously the biggest (pun intended) guys left after Smash 4. Castlevania is the one third-party franchise that is as connected to the Nintendo brand of consoles as Mega Man is. Daisy, Chrom, Dark Samus, and Ken (assuming he is in) are delicious free desserts for many.

Even if there are only two more fighters, this is a fantastic base roster.

I don't think people appreciate just how good the newcomer is for this game. And it's somewhat hard to believe we could eventually be reaching 80+ characters with DLC.

 

[Pyra]

Those are pretty damn safe predictions and I'd be 100% okay with them. I'd prefer Buzzwole over Incineroar, and I think Isaac is more likely than Elma, but this is very realistic imo.

Buzzwole is my dream Gen 7 rep man.

 

[Buzzwole]

I don't think people appreciate just how good the newcomer is for this game. And it's somewhat hard to believe we could eventually be reaching 80+ characters with DLC.

That's what frustrates me whenever I see people complaining about this roster. We got **RIDLEY AND KING K.ROOL**.
We got WOLF and SNAKE back.
We didn't lose Cloud or any of the other third party reps.

Those additions alone are MORE than enough. At some point, people need to realize that they're never going to get every single character they want. Its not possible. People need to realize that realistically, this is pretty much the best roster we could ever hope for.

 

[Amtoj]

Isn't "The Box" the box for the special edition and not the console bundle?

My bad, I got them mixed up. Sorry if I caused any confusion.

 

[Starbound]

Theory: They want to reveal the full roster before the Switch bundle (not the box we've been talking about) comes out. This would be by November 2.

Why?

The bundle comes with the game (I don't think it's been said if it's with a download code or pre-installed, but it is fact that it comes with the game). This means the game's files will be on those Switches a month before release date.

Plus I can't imagine them not doing pre-purchase for this game if they're doing it for Mario Party and did it for Mario Tennis. The server can't handle 10 million people all at once on midnight December 7. Pre-install usually starts a month ahead of time, which lines up with the November 2 theory.

The Switch is dataminable, and when you pre-download the game, you get all of the game's files on it. That's how we found out the Mario Tennis tournament characters months before release. So they have to beat the dataminers to the punch.

What I'm envisioning is the Final Smash Direct in October, like October 26 or something. Ken and the final character are shown off, we talk about Spirits Mode, that pre-purchase is available November 2 and a demo will be available for download the same day for Nintendo Switch Online customers.

Then we're too busy playing the demo to even care that we're going all of November without any news.

 

[Spinosaurus]

- No represents a genre

Dunno about this, there's no other hack n slash character action character in Smash. It's really why she got the push she got.

She's not the face of it, but most gamers would think of her when character action games are mentioned next to Dante and Kratos.

 

[LetterO]

Okay, so to round up a bit since we seem to be doing this, what is everyone's predictions for the remaining newcomers? Anything goes, even if it's just the "Box Theory" roster.

Mine is:

Unique:
- Gen 7 Pokemon / Skull Kid
- Isaac / Geno / Skull Kid

Any combination of these, I think. It's not that I think Skull Kid is likely. Actually, it's more that I don't think a Gen 7 Pokemon is guaranteed, but I think whatever is in that slot will open up the next Smash Direct and whatever is in the second will close it.

Echos:

- Ken (I feel it's a given, but I'm definitely liable to be wrong)
- ???
- ???
3 echos, I have no real idea who they would be other than Ken. Could be Shadow, Dixie, Impa... Could be Toon Mario for all I care.

-RH character
-Gen 7 Pokemon
-Geno
-Skull Kid
-maaybe Isaac?

Echos:
-Ken
-Shadow
-Black Shadow/Knight

 

[Pakky]

Dunno about this, there's no other hack n slash character action character in Smash. It's really why she got the push she got.

She's not the face of it, but most gamers would think of her when character action games are mentioned next to Dante and Kratos.

That's what I meant, had a bit of a typo.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Okay, so to round up a bit since we seem to be doing this, what is everyone's predictions for the remaining newcomers? Anything goes, even if it's just the "Box Theory" roster.

Mine is:

Unique:
- Gen 7 Pokemon / Skull Kid
- Isaac / Geno / Skull Kid

Any combination of these, I think. It's not that I think Skull Kid is likely. Actually, it's more that I don't think a Gen 7 Pokemon is guaranteed, but I think whatever is in that slot will open up the next Smash Direct and whatever is in the second will close it.

Echos:

- Ken (I feel it's a given, but I'm definitely liable to be wrong)
- ???
- ???
3 echos, I have no real idea who they would be other than Ken. Could be Shadow, Dixie, Impa... Could be Toon Mario for all I care.

Unique:
-Gen VII Pokémon
-Elma
-Bandana Dee

Echoes
-Ken
-Shadow
-Impa

Geno would be the first DLC revealed.

 

[Pyra]

Geno would be the first DLC revealed.

That would certainly be an incredible way to kick off the DLC season of speculation.

 

[Michele]

Theory: They want to reveal the full roster before the Switch bundle (not the box we've been talking about) comes out. This would be by November 2.

Why?

The bundle comes with the game (I don't think it's been said if it's with a download code or pre-installed, but it is fact that it comes with the game). This means the game's files will be on those Switches a month before release date.

Plus I can't imagine them not doing pre-purchase for this game if they're doing it for Mario Party and did it for Mario Tennis. The server can't handle 10 million people all at once on midnight December 7. Pre-install usually starts a month ahead of time, which lines up with the November 2 theory.

The Switch is dataminable, and when you pre-download the game, you get all of the game's files on it. That's how we found out the Mario Tennis tournament characters months before release. So they have to beat the dataminers to the punch.

What I'm envisioning is the Final Smash Direct in October, like October 26 or something. Ken and the final character are shown off, we talk about Spirits Mode, that pre-purchase is available November 2 and a demo will be available for download the same day for Nintendo Switch Online customers.

Then we're too busy playing the demo to even care that we're going all of November without any news.

I doubt it. I'm pretty sure there's going to be at least a last reveal in November, middle or late.

There can be ways to block peoples from datamining the file without affecting the Switch.

 

[WolfCypher]

That's what frustrates me whenever I see people complaining about this roster. We got **RIDLEY AND KING K.ROOL**.
We got WOLF and SNAKE back.
We didn't lose Cloud or any of the other third party reps.

Those additions alone are MORE than enough. At some point, people need to realize that they're never going to get every single character they want. Its not possible. People need to realize that realistically, this is pretty much the best roster we could ever hope for.

The point where I was content was the minute where confirmed. There was nothing else this game could do to either excite me more or deflat my hype. was all it took.

THEN happened. Had this game came out August as is, it would have been ready for me.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

He'd already been deconfirmed by Villager's final smash.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean I didn't have false hope when he appeared and talked about Smash

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Theory: They want to reveal the full roster before the Switch bundle (not the box we've been talking about) comes out. This would be by November 2.

Why?

The bundle comes with the game (I don't think it's been said if it's with a download code or pre-installed, but it is fact that it comes with the game). This means the game's files will be on those Switches a month before release date.

Plus I can't imagine them not doing pre-purchase for this game if they're doing it for Mario Party and did it for Mario Tennis. The server can't handle 10 million people all at once on midnight December 7. Pre-install usually starts a month ahead of time, which lines up with the November 2 theory.

The Switch is dataminable, and when you pre-download the game, you get all of the game's files on it. That's how we found out the Mario Tennis tournament characters months before release. So they have to beat the dataminers to the punch.

What I'm envisioning is the Final Smash Direct in October, like October 26 or something. Ken and the final character are shown off, we talk about Spirits Mode, that pre-purchase is available November 2 and a demo will be available for download the same day for Nintendo Switch Online customers.

Then we're too busy playing the demo to even care that we're going all of November without any news.

They said it came with a download code iirc. They don't have to allow you to download the game immediately in that case, it'd just go in as a preorder at that point.

It's not impossible that they reveal the roster before then though.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Nook should be a newcomer in the next Smash.

You could continue the trend of the Animal Crossing characters getting letters, but for a sentimental touch and a call back to him being happy for his friends getting out and trying new things? Tom's could be personally signed by Isabelle and Villager themselves.

 

[Pakky]

So has the box thing died or is it still a thing?

 

[Deleted member]

So has the box thing died or is it still a thing?

Still a thing but shush, we're talking about something else now.

 

[Starbound]

There can be ways to block peoples from datamining the file without affecting the Switch.

Not in a way that prevents pre-purchasers from datamining it. When you pre-purchase, you basically get the game downloaded to your Switch. Then on launch, you get a 1MB download that is just the key to unlock the game so you can actually play it.

The only way they can avoid datamining is not releasing the game for pre-purchase, but then their servers will explode on launch from people trying to download it. Switch has been dataminable for over a year and despite Nintendo doing everything to prevent it, they haven't figured out how to kill it.

 

[Chrono.]

So has the box thing died or is it still a thing?

It's gonna be a thing till then next news drop, bro.

 

[Dandelionel]

So has the box thing died or is it still a thing?

Still a thing, and it's likely staying that way. But discussing it more is a dead horse so we shouldn't keep with it

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

has anyone actually explained why the box theory has to be inceneroar yet outside of guessing? Vergeben has to be wrong on multiple accounts, but Inceneroar implies you believe what he says still. Can anyone explain why the box theory crowd is still trying to pretend vergeben fits with what they said, it's not just Square Enix being "fake", Vergeben has been contradicting box theory since e3.

EDIT: The box is what we got until october or november and tbh it might be time for some of us to play a new game for a little while instead of smash stuff. Isabelle gave us nothing to discuss beyond her having some pretty decent looking moves.

 

[Arcadenik]

Agreed. Like I always say, I have no reason to complain. i have ridley. That day, E3 was the day I forfeited the right to be angry about the roster size. He was the one I mainly wanted. I have him. Everything else is more cheese on my complete pizza.

Lucky you. I wish I am in your position... but Toad and Meowth still are not playable fighters.

At least I have almost everyone I ever wanted in Smash Ultimate.

 

[Pakky]

Anything new from Vegeta Bread? (Vergaben)?

Also, I think I definitely am going to have a pocket, Isabelle. Her command grab looks great!

 

[PushDustIn]

They said it came with a download code iirc. They don't have to allow you to download the game immediately in that case, it'd just go in as a preorder at that point.

It's not impossible that they reveal the roster before then though.

yes it comes with a download code that doesn't work until the game is on the eShop.

Also hi guys. I heard you like boxes.

 

[Chron]

What are everyone's thoughts on:
New FE Rep
Rex & Pyra
Toon Zelda
New FF Rep

 

[Starbound]

Just to reiterate: these are the only things that will deconfirm the box theory (it's not a leak):
- an echo that is not between Palutena and Cloud numberically
- more than two more unique newcomers

If either of these happen, we can throw the box in the... recycling bin.

 

[Boo Jr.]

My very fist job in my life was actually making those mock-ups for several products. If you're interested, I can explain a bit on how (usually) works.

When you need a visual design for a product, be it a toy, a balm bottle, a keychain of whatever you first tell the graphic designer to do the first draft (my job). This is also the case for many boxes, especially for special editions. After the work is done, your supervisor check it and give the feedback: maybe is too dark for the target audience, maybe the colors are off, maybe you idea sucks, and so on.
Now keep in mind that at this moment the image is still a photoshopped image, not a 3D render (most of the time; I'm talking about my personal experience), and in rare cases those photoshopped images end to be the actual "official" one. Like this one (look at the toilet paper), as opposed to this one. See the difference?
Once the supervisor gives the ok, the process proceed. Remember this part for later.
Then, in the case of a product box, it goes straight to a specific department that make the actual box. I said specific because they are responsible for basically everything regarding the actual box: the colors (if you're familiar with RGB vs CMYK you know what I mean), font dimension (very important if the wording need to be translated), all the box sides, and all those fine prints you see on every box. In this stage the intern can actually make some changes, especially true if you consider that most companies always have some kind of "template" regarding their products. Just grab any box near you and you'll see with your own eyes: the prints, the warnings, the logos, the alignment. There are actual people who specifically work on those, in order to have a good looking AND functional product.
After all that, it usually got double-checked and finally released to the public (and to the physical manufactor). Remember, this process takes place AFTER the actual product is done (or at least should be).

Before proceeding, keep in mind that I worked in a small company and not in a huge multinational, and basically never in a NDA environment. So from now take everything with a grain of salt.

Now, from my personal experience, on this "box theory" I can tell you this. The Smash Bros Special Edition Box is real, like an actual physical box that has been sent to Amazon, along with a specific serial number (and tons of paperwork) in order to be and actual buyable product. Remember that the ESBR already have the final version of the game with all the characters in it, its basically already finished.
But that box is a placeholder. "Hurr-dur, of course its a placeholder, Isabelle is not on it!". And that's the point.
Remember the supervisor stage? In this particular case, the team already know the full rooster but they get specifically instructed about what characters are going to be revealed to the public, so its up to the supervisor to tell "put all the characters up to the 67°, we are going to send this before the planned 5th september direct" or something like that to the poor intern, so he (and later the box department) have to create a desing with those instructions in place.
If you consider that the Steelbox was already announced back in august (look at the date), I think its pretty safe to assume that whoever created that box was specifically instructed on how many characters he was supposed to show. So the empty slots are there for a reason, they are not random.

Its interesting to note the discrepancy in the Palutena-Corrin segment, from my point of view it could really be a slip up of an echo fighter there (Ken/Medusa/Ms. Pacman/Zack...), I mean, it wouldn't be the first time Nintendo screw up like this. But regarding the supposed single remaining slot, I'm pretty confident its a placeholder. As in, the entire grid might change, shrunk, moved, some characters may be on the back and so on.
That said, don't expect 5-6 more unique anyways, Sakurai specifically told us the opposite. There are probably 2 more left, 3 if you want to be optimistic.

Hope it helped.

TL;DR: 90% placeholder, 10% true.

 

[Deleted member]

Also hi guys. I heard you like boxes.

I for one welcome our new box overlords

 

[LetterO]

What are everyone's thoughts on:
New FE Rep
Rex & Pyra
Toon Zelda
New FF Rep

Ew
Eh
I guess
Geno is better. He is from Geno game

 

[Pakky]

What are everyone's thoughts on:
New FE Rep
Rex & Pyra
Toon Zelda
New FF Rep

If no new Xenoblade rep period in the base game I'm kinda shocked really.

Like no Elma or surprise Rex& Pyra is jarring to me.

 

[Turnips and Daisies.]

I hope equipment comes back so I can customise the stats of fighters again.

 

[Untouch]

Before the game was officially announced I had a theory that we'd get less newcomers but we'd also get a content release system like ARMs and Splatoon and I think more than ever this is going to be the case.
Since Splatoon launched, Nintendo has really shifted on how they do DLC.

Games with paid DLC in Expansions:

• Zelda Breath of the Wild
• Xenoblade Chronicles 2

Games with free DLC updates:

• Splatoon 2
• Super Mario Odyessy
• ARMS
• Kirby Star Allies
• Mario Tennis

I think that the online is going to tie into somehow as well, there is 1 feature we don't know about yet and I think it'll be related to this. Nintendo wants people to pay for their subscription and I think they'll either make the DLC free to subscribers, or subscribers get the DLC early for free.

I think the box theory is right, but we're going to get some more characters relatively early on, perhaps the work for a Square Enix rep has already started, and they've already planned out some content updates which is why hinting towards Shadow, Isaac and Skull Kid exists?

 

[Buzzwole]

Buzzwole is my dream Gen 7 rep man.

I feel like people really sleep on this Pokemon.
He gets brought up every now and then but I personally just find him to be so much more interesting than Incineroar or Decidueye.

His design is super weird and different from any other fighter on the roster, he's got a ton of personality, he'd have health-sapping abilities which is a rarity in smash, and there aren't any bug type pokemon on the roster yet.

There are already so many playable starter Pokemon and an Ultra Beast would be a really nice change of pace. UBs were pretty important to the story of Sun/Moon too.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

What are everyone's thoughts on:
New FE Rep
Rex & Pyra
Toon Zelda
New FF Rep

FE Rep = Yes, Only if it's Edelgard
Rex & Pyra = No (I want Elma)
Toon Zelda = Meh
New FF Rep = Sure, Depending on who it is...

 

[Deleted member]

What are everyone's thoughts on:
New FE Rep
Rex & Pyra
Toon Zelda
New FF Rep

If it's Edelgard and I can make bad Homura jokes, 10/10.
Better them than Elma, but I'm not a fan of Xenoblade 2's art style still.
Gross.
Don't know much about Final Fantasy, so I have no opinion here.

 

[Dee Dude]

What are everyone's thoughts on:
New FE Rep
Rex & Pyra
Toon Zelda
New FF Rep

Gross, I want none of those in. :V

Also wouldn’t the download code ensure that there would be datamining?

 

[Untouch]

Gross, I want none of those in. :V

Also wouldn’t the download code ensure that there would be datamining?

If the file is encrypted (it will be) it won't get datamined.

 

[GalacticPetey]

Personally, I'm buying into the box theory just to set my expectations low. While I'm sure both Ken and Incineroar would be really fun to play, they're not really hype for me. But I'm not gonna complain. I dreamed of Smash game with every veteran plus Ridley and K. Rool. Now I have that, and then some.

So if the box theory s true, I'll still be satisfied. If not, then I'll have even more stuff to look forward to.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So has the box thing died or is it still a thing?

It's not dead but we've gotten past the point of calling each other idiot for believing/not believing it. So that's a positive step.