Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm going to laugh so ****ing hard if (let's be honest here, WHEN) Dante gets in. I remember Matt Walker saying he wasn't in and everyone just taking that as "welp, he's deconfirmed" and I can imagine the salt that would come from people who didn't want him.
It'd be like how I felt about Bayonetta getting into Sm4sh all over again, except this time with less of a chance of me regretting him ever getting in the game because he ends up being super OP.

I mean I won't have any complaints he gets in and hey those who wanted him. Good on them and I'm happy for them but I just feel there'd be better third party options like Agumon, Banjo-Kazooie, Lara Croft, Nightmare and Rayman. At the same time I think he's one of those unnecessary additions like Bayonetta, Cloud and Corrin were.

 

[osby]

While I agree there will be a new pokemon rep, I can't believe everyone is so set in stone on it being Incineroar. Vergeben himself said he wasn't too confident in the validity of that claim. I still think the door is wide open when it comes to potential pokemon characters.

Just goes to show how much people are fools for Vergeben these days.

It'd a nice suprise if we got someone else.

Though a new Pokemon would be the only newcomer not voted in the ballot, so that's an interesting thought.

 

[ErenJager]

After Smash 4's release, there were only three things people were upset about:
1. No Ridley
2. No K. Rool
3. The cuts (and lack of returnees)

If this is indeed the final base roster, we got every veteran ever to come back, as well as both Ridley and K. Rool. After Smash 4, I was very pessimistic on Ridley ever making it in. We got the two most highly requested newcomers during much of pre-Smash 4, Castlevania joining the fray (with a lot of content to boot), and not a single veteran being cut (with even the likes of Pichu and Young Link returning).

I bet if you went back in time four years ago, (when Smash 4 was first released) and told your past self that this would be the base roster for the next game and that it was causing outrage because "it was not enough", I bet most of your past selves would view the Smash Bros. fanbase of 2018 as being filled with the most petulant and spoiled babies of all gaming fandom.

Every veteran ever. Ridley. K. Rool. Castlevania. New icons like Inkling and Isabelle. And bones thrown to fanbases that did not lead the back (but were certainly there), Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus. Even Ken (assuming he is in) himself is an all-star especially for a franchise with as much clone characters as the Smash Bros. series. Sakurai did the best he could with only an allotment of 11 newcomers and only five truly unique newcomer slots, and yet created something very satisfactory.

There are no potential newcomers that had the level of support that K. Rool and Ridley did back during Smash 4 that did not end up making it in. The closest is maaaaaaybe Bandanna Dee and that is only on the Japanese side of things. Isaac is the closest one on the Western side, and even then he falls short of what Ridley, K. Rool, and Mewtwo were during pre-Smash 4 (both Ridley and K. Rool had support topic views into the MILLIONS).

Inkling and Isabelle covered things from the casual perspective (though Inkling certainly did have a ton of requests from core Smash Bros. fans), while Ridley and K. Rool were obviously the biggest (pun intended) guys left after Smash 4. Castlevania is the one third-party franchise that is as connected to the Nintendo brand of consoles as Mega Man is. Daisy, Chrom, Dark Samus, and Ken (assuming he is in) are delicious free desserts for many.

Even if there are only two more fighters, this is a fantastic base roster.

And the game modes.
People were not happy about the game modes.

 

[T-Hell]

You're saying this as though them doing that would be a good thing and not them partaking in a horrendous business practice.

Agreed. Sakurai doesn't roll like that, unless the big cheeses of Ninty told him to do it that way, and essentially embrace the stinking side of dlc.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't think that Dante leak is true.

I don't care whether he's in or not, but if he's in, he'll have to be DLC unless we don't get a new Pokémon.

And for the leak to be true, the DLC would have had to be planned far before the game's release.

 

[Pyra]

(If I'm being honest though, I'd sacrifice every other newcomer for just a Pikachu-Echo of Mimikyu if I had the option. )

I also would have liked Mimikyu over Incineroar. Not going so far to say I'd sacrifice every other newcomer (I actually very much like most of 'em) but man what I'd give for a playable ghost Pokemon. haha.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I'm going to laugh so ****ing hard if (let's be honest here, WHEN) Dante gets in. I remember Matt Walker saying he wasn't in and everyone just taking that as "welp, he's deconfirmed" and I can imagine the salt that would come from people who didn't want him.
It'd be like how I felt about Bayonetta getting into Sm4sh all over again, except this time with less of a chance of me regretting him ever getting in the game because he ends up being super OP.
I know I sound like kind of an ******* when I say this, but I can't help but take some sort of sadistic glee in seeing a character I want get confirmed and characters other people want get deconfirmed.

Lose the second part, and you would be fine. Happy you got your main. Empathy to those that did not.
That is how one gains stature and respect.

 

[DJ3DS]

People are still going to moan, regardless of whether this is the final roster or not, because in the moment they always focus on what isn't there rather than what actually is. Once they sit down and take it in I think it'll blow over relatively quickly compared to Brawl and Smash 4, but there will definitely be a lot of negativity with the initial reaction, that's just how it goes when people have characters they're hoping for right until the very end.

I said immediately after the E3 presentation that if the game had no more characters beyond Inkling, Ridley and Daisy, I would still consider it well worth the money.

I still hold to that. The E3 roster alone was fantastic. Just go and take a look at all of the various reaction videos. When Sakurai says "We've made including every single fighter our #1 goal, so kind of hope you aren't expecting too many new characters..." the reaction is most often something along the lines of "fair enough". It seems absurd to me for that to change later on, when we've been given even more since then.

I do agree with you; people will complain. I just don't think anyone has a good reason to.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I think we are more or less saying the same thing, you with some more healthy skepticism.

I definitely think there is an echo in those 8 characters, and while I speculate Ken, there's no 100% guarantee.

Definitely an echo. That’s the one thing this box really does tell us.
Agreed on Ken being likely, especially since Vergeben seems to think so. Objectively, Ken has the most backing, even if it can’t be proven.

Other possibilities are Medusa and Mrs. Pac-Man and Zack Fair. Ken just has someone backing him at least.

 

[Deleted member]

Seriously, this game is flippin' amazing. 70+ characters with the potential of a few more through DLC, 103 stages each with three forms, a bunch of items and ATs, dozens of modes, what is likely to be a pretty big single-player mode, and that's not even all of it when you consider the small things like collectables!

For me personally, I am entirely, 100% satisfied with this game. Would I like a few more characters that are personal favorites? Of course I would, but if I'm being completely honest, I'm pretty overwhelmed as it is with all the character options. I already knew after the 8.8 Direct that Isabelle was my only realistic wish left, and getting her has made me extremely happy and satisfied. I would be just as thrilled for Ken and Incineroar fans if they got what they wanted just as much as I'd be happy for Isaac and Geno fans if they got what they wanted.

I think this game is gonna be pretty cool. Hopefully everyone can enjoy it.

 

[osby]

I mean I won't have any complaints he gets in and hey those who wanted him. Good on them and I'm happy for them but I just feel there'd be better third party options like Agumon, Banjo-Kazooie, Lara Croft, Nightmare and Rayman. At the same time I think he's one of those unnecessary additions like Bayonetta, Cloud and Corrin were.

Nightmare=Good addition. Cloud=Unnecessary addition.

Galaxy brain.

 

[Murlough]

I also would have liked Mimikyu over Incineroar. Not going so far to say I'd sacrifice every other newcomer (I actually very much like most of 'em) but man what I'd give for a playable ghost Pokemon. haha.

Oh no, I meant the rest of the unrevealed ones! I like Isabelle too much to get rid of her now. Ridley and K. Rool, too. Heck, now that they are all here I wouldn't want any of them out. They all kind of fit right in, to be honest.

 

[Pyra]

I'm down to fight any and all of you when the game comes out despite our differences

 

[Dixie Kong]

So if the box theory is correct, there is a possiblity she could still be playable, although its a stretch. What if during Diddy's final smash, he claps out Dixie, or opens a DK barrel, and then Dixie replaces him? That would make sense as to why we haven't seen Diddy's Dixie costume, and his final smash.

My post from the Dixie thread. Thoughts? Too out there? Possible? It’s possible this was the intended course in Brawl. Diddy and Dixie could share an icon then on the box.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Since the Smash Bros Ultimate special edition box is a mock up and not final, I say that we will get more than 2 fighters of what people say from that box. I think we are getting 6 fighters.

Echo:
Shadow(Sonic)
Ken(Ryu)

Unique:
Incineroar
anyone who is a hero
Skull Kid
Geno

 

[Pyra]

Oh no, I meant the rest of the unrevealed ones! I like Isabelle too much to get rid of her now. Ridley and K. Rool, too. Heck, now that they are all here I wouldn't want any of them out. They all kind of fit right in, to be honest.

Oh, then I totally agree honestly
That'd be the icing on the cake. I'm satisfied with the roster already, especially now that Isabelle is revealed.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nightmare=Good addition. Cloud=Unnecessary addition.

Galaxy brain.

To be fair Nightmare is owned by Namco which helped make Smash 4 and this game no? That's why I think he'd be a worthy addition that and it'd return the favor of Link having appeared in the Gamecube version of Soul Caliber 2.

I think Nightmare would be an interesting and unique character for Smash. I'd be curious to see how he plays out.

 

[Chrono.]

I think the box legit spoils Ken.

Whether him and #69 are the final newcomers for sure is harder to say, but I'm convinced.

It lines up with not expecting many newcomers and there isn't much time left till the game comes out.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Lose the second part, and you would be fine. Happy you got your main. Empathy to those that did not.
That is how one gains stature and respect.

It’s just a guilty pleasure of mine, if I’m honest.

 

[Murlough]

As long as the online is better than 4's I'd be down to play anyone after the first week. If the online is as laggy as 4's..... I'll stick to local play for another 4 years, I guess. Those 20 bucks a year are hopefully worth it.

 

[CroonerMike]

Honestly. I believe we will get 3 more characters. I wouldn’t care regardless, but that’s what I believe.

 

[drag0nscythe]

It’s just a guilty pleasure of mine, if I’m honest.

I will admit if a person is being overly aggressive and rude about their most wanted, seeing them fail is something I will fall into, but I try to remember that even though this one person is a a-hat about it, not all those fans were.

Still have Ridley at the end of the day. :-)

 

[Buzzwole]

Roster is already more than perfect to me. Anything else is just icing on the cake.
I'd expect 2 more unique newcomers and 3 echoes.

 

[Chron]

Honestly. I believe we will get 3 more characters. I wouldn’t care regardless, but that’s what I believe.

3 more Roys, FEH style.
Also, it's awesome that FEH music made it in.

 

[CroonerMike]

Roster is already more than perfect to me. Anything else is just icing on the cake.
I'd expect 2 more unique newcomers and 3 echoes.

I see you are a buzzwole for smash fan like myself

 

[Pyra]

Okay, so to round up a bit since we seem to be doing this, what is everyone's predictions for the remaining newcomers? Anything goes, even if it's just the "Box Theory" roster.

Mine is:

Unique:
- Gen 7 Pokemon / Skull Kid
- Isaac / Geno / Skull Kid

Any combination of these, I think. It's not that I think Skull Kid is likely. Actually, it's more that I don't think a Gen 7 Pokemon is guaranteed, but I think whatever is in that slot will open up the next Smash Direct and whatever is in the second will close it.

Echos:

- Ken (I feel it's a given, but I'm definitely liable to be wrong)
- ???
- ???
3 echos, I have no real idea who they would be other than Ken. Could be Shadow, Dixie, Impa... Could be Toon Mario for all I care.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I said immediately after the E3 presentation that if the game had no more characters beyond Inkling, Ridley and Daisy, I would still consider it well worth the money.

I still hold to that. The E3 roster alone was fantastic. Just go and take a look at all of the various reaction videos. When Sakurai says "We've made including every single fighter our #1 goal, so kind of hope you aren't expecting too many new characters..." the reaction is most often something along the lines of "fair enough". It seems absurd to me for that to change later on, when we've been given even more since then.

I do agree with you; people will complain. I just don't think anyone has a good reason to.

I definitely agree, after Brawl I said that I just needed Ridley and the roster would be complete for me, so I had absolutely no demands after E3 either. Then we got K. Rool too and the roster entered the "if this had been a leak I'd have written it off as too good to be true" territory. I don't even really care what the Spirits mode will be, anything I get from here on out will just be a bonus.

I just hope people will be quick to remind each other what we really have on our hands when we do see the final thing, I'm just not sure how much faith I have in people doing that.

 

[Idon]

As long as the online is better than 4's I'd be down to play anyone after the first week. If the online is as laggy as 4's..... I'll stick to local play for another 4 years, I guess. Those 20 bucks a year are hopefully worth it.

I'm going to guess it plays the exact same except you have to pay for it now.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So if the box theory is correct, there is a possiblity she could still be playable, although its a stretch. What if during Diddy's final smash, he claps out Dixie, or opens a DK barrel, and then Dixie replaces him? That would make sense as to why we haven't seen Diddy's Dixie costume, and his final smash.

My post from the Dixie thread. Thoughts? Too out there? Possible? It’s possible this was the intended course in Brawl. Diddy and Dixie could share an icon then on the box.

uh...why? pretty sure they were just supposed to switch out with a special in brawl

 

[Buzzwole]

I see you are a buzzwole for smash fan like myself

Absolutely. I mean I know I said the roster is perfect, but in an ideal world Buzzwole would be there too. I definitely think he'd be the most fun and interesting Pokemon they could add from Gen 7.

But again, even if he's not, I'm more than satisfied with what we have.

 

[SonicMario]

I think for now the box theory at least make Shadow less likely in the base game as Sonic's set of 9 is set. And there will be an echo of the set of characters from 54-61 (Which is likely Ken, but you can speculate about the others anyway).

There's just the 69th newcomer that may be a bit of mystery even though yeah it's likely that it's whoever is the Gen 7 Pokemon. But dark horse possibilities like Elma, Tails (Isabelle-style semi-clone), or by some strange miracle an Earthbound or Kid Icarus newcomer that is not an echo are there too.

I do feel at the very least Geno might be this game's Smash 4 Mewtwo where he's the first revealed DLC character.

 

[Darkraid]

I would like to change the topic for a while.

Can we link Nintendo with Chris Taylor?

He is a loyal smash fan who has cancer.

Unfortunately he might not be able to wait until December.

Can we help?

 

[Murlough]

I'm going to guess it plays the exact same except you have to pay for it now.

Probably. I'm gonna attempt being optimistic about it, though.

 

[Pakky]

I mean I won't have any complaints he gets in and hey those who wanted him. Good on them and I'm happy for them but I just feel there'd be better third party options like Agumon, Banjo-Kazooie, Lara Croft, Nightmare and Rayman. At the same time I think he's one of those unnecessary additions like Bayonetta, Cloud and Corrin were.

-okay maybe

EDIT, typo: - No one but her represents the genre in smash and she has a unique moveset. Crazy as balls that she's here but not an unnecessary addition. Now that ballot business is sketchy because I think she was decided from the start but eh.

- In the video game hall of fame with Lara...

I like the guys you mentioned but we're speaking in subjective reasonings here.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Since the Smash Bros Ultimate special edition box is a mock up and not final, I say that we will get more than 2 fighters of what people say from that box. I think we are getting 6 fighters.

Echo:
Shadow(Sonic)
Ken(Ryu)

Unique:
Incineroar
anyone who is a hero
Skull Kid
Geno

my take:

2 echoes:
Ken
Black Shadow

4 Uniques:
Elma
Waddle Dee
Incineroar
Dante

Neku, Rex/Pyra, Isaac, ARMS rep, Lloyd, Octoling, Chorus Kids, Celica, Dixie, and anyone else will be DLC

disappears back into the shadows as im all but done with speculation right now

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

While I agree there will be a new pokemon rep, I can't believe everyone is so set in stone on it being Incineroar. Vergeben himself said he wasn't too confident in the validity of that claim. I still think the door is wide open when it comes to potential characters.

Just goes to show how much people are fools for Vergeben these days.

Well it makes sense, you see, every Pokemon in Smash had a prominent role in the Anime at one point.

Pikachu is Ash's Signature Mon and the Star of the First Few Seasons Of The Anime
Jigglypuff was a running Gag character and She was pretty popular because of it.
Squirtle and Charizard were also prominent Anime Mons. Ivysaur was probably added so that the three evolution stages could be represented
Pichu had a prominent role in a Short played before the Third Pokemon Movie. (A movie which released in Japan at about the Middle of Melee's Development)
Mewtwo was the main Antagonist of the First Pokemon Movie, Which released the year before Melee's Project plan was Finalized.
Lucario was chosen because he had a prominent role in the Eighth Pokemon Movie that was released around the same time that Brawl's Roster was chosen
Greninja was likely chosen because the Pokemon Company wanted him to be The Star of the Kalos season of the Anime. Sure enough, Greninja became Ash's Main Mon in that season.

At this point, I'm pretty sure the Gen 7 Mon will be Pokemon that is or will be prominent in The Sun and Moon Season of the Anime
Here Are the most likely Candidates:

Lycanroc Is One of Ash's important Mons in this season
Inicineroar seems very likely because Ash's Torracat (Who used to be a Litten) Is basically the main Pokemon of the current season and is very likely going to evolve into Incineroar.
Rowlett (Not Decidueye, just Rowlett) Rowlett is another one of Ash's Mon in the current Season. (But honestly, I doubt it's him)
Zeraora was a key Pokemon in the Twenty First (Yes, There are that many) Pokemon Movie

Out of all of these, Incineroar is Clearly the most likely in my opinion

 

[drag0nscythe]

I would like to change the topic for a while.

Can we link Nintendo with Chris Taylor?

He is a loyal smash fan who has cancer.

Unfortunately he might not be able to wait until December.

Can we help?

make a wish is the best bet. and spamming nintendo on twitter.

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

Okay, so to round up a bit since we seem to be doing this, what is everyone's predictions for the remaining newcomers? Anything goes, even if it's just the "Box Theory" roster.

Mine is:

Unique:
- Gen 7 Pokemon / Skull Kid
- Isaac / Geno / Skull Kid

Any combination of these, I think. It's not that I think Skull Kid is likely. Actually, it's more that I don't think a Gen 7 Pokemon is guaranteed, but I think whatever is in that slot will open up the next Smash Direct and whatever is in the second will close it.

Echos:

- Ken (I feel it's a given, but I'm definitely liable to be wrong)
- ???
- ???
3 echos, I have no real idea who they would be other than Ken. Could be Shadow, Dixie, Impa... Could be Toon Mario for all I care.

Including DLC possibilities, I think the base roster is gonna end with a gen 7 Pokemon (probably Incineroar) or that SE character + Ken and then for DLC whoever between the Pokemon and SE character that wasn't in the base roster is the first DLC character. After that, Rex and Spring Man I could see coming next and after that Isaac, Shadow, Dixie and maybe Skull Kid.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Since the Smash Bros Ultimate special edition box is a mock up and not final, I say that we will get more than 2 fighters of what people say from that box. I think we are getting 6 fighters.

Echo:
Shadow(Sonic)
Ken(Ryu)

Unique:
Incineroar
anyone who is a hero
Skull Kid
Geno

Three Echoes
Ken (Ryu)
Shadow (Sonic)
Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong)

Three Unique
Incineroar
Elma
Geno

 

[DJ3DS]

I definitely agree, after Brawl I said that I just needed Ridley and the roster would be complete for me, so I had absolutely no demands after E3 either. Then we got K. Rool too and the roster entered the "if this had been a leak I'd have written it off as too good to be true" territory. I don't even really care what the Spirits mode will be, anything I get from here on out will just be a bonus.

I just hope people will be quick to remind each other what we really have on our hands when we do see the final thing, I'm just not sure how much faith I have in people doing that.

Yeah, this. I still go back and rewatch the King K Rool trailer for the goosebumps every now and again.

So if the box theory is correct, there is a possiblity she could still be playable, although its a stretch. What if during Diddy's final smash, he claps out Dixie, or opens a DK barrel, and then Dixie replaces him? That would make sense as to why we haven't seen Diddy's Dixie costume, and his final smash.

My post from the Dixie thread. Thoughts? Too out there? Possible? It’s possible this was the intended course in Brawl. Diddy and Dixie could share an icon then on the box.

I don't personally expect this at all, though it doesn't sound all too dissimilar from Zero Suit Samus' original implementation in Brawl.

I've personally not got a massive amount of faith in any single newcomer at this precise moment, though if there were another ballot of any sort for DLC then I imagine Dixie would do very well, as a lot of her serious competition is now in and she would benefit from a massive influx of the previous K Rool supporters.