Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[drag0nscythe]

The victors laugh at the losers.
Then we forget about it in a week's time and then maybe months later we look back and say "boy that was a doozy haha why is bayo still top tier".

Not sure what there is to laugh about.

Box theory right, we have 72 characters. People that are arguing against it are angry that they were wrong.
Box theory is wrong. We have more than 72. The people who bought the theory are happy they were wrong and get more characters.

Seems like the only ones that get burned are the ones against it and holding the burning to their hearts.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I personally still don't believe the box theory tbh. If it were true wouldn't Isabelle had been next to K. Rool? She's absent. That and as someone pointed out it can be changed by the time of its release. There's honestly a chance what were seeing is an unfinished version of the box. Food for thought.

That's just me though.

This is all definitely possible. The only reason we are discussing it is that those things haven’t been proven.
The moment those things are proven true, I will be done with it. Lol. And happier for it.

I think most of us are trying to find a way to falsify it entirely. Not with things that very well could be, but with things that definitely are. Straight up facts.

I don’t think anyone should believe the box art and I also don’t think anyone should believe it’s false. It can go either way and it requires a factual conclusion for me to move on.

I am rooting for Team False. But I won’t count Team True out until the final scoreboard. Metaphors are fun.

 

[Chron]

I'd be excited, He could be a very interesting charecter, If they pulled a Ridley and shrunk him a bit

Or he's exactly the same but he's a bad character like in Melee.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

If we discussing a boxart, can I have dat boxart so I know what is actually going on?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Box Art Theory has these things against it for me so far:

-Consistency of logic when paired with Smashdown. "72 works with it! Nevermind that we're forgetting about Mii Fighters!"
-Consistency of logic when paired with Vergeben. ''He obviously knows of Square Rep because they are DLC! Not base roster! Obviously!"
- Not acknowledging that it's artwork that can be changed or modified at any given time and that most assuredly if Nintendo felt it'd spoil anything they'd simply have just made the sides of the box all black and left the characters off, etc, etc.
- Not acknowledging using 72 to promote the box art would be weird when the website already promotes the number 72. This already is confusion in promotion and gives the public multiple numbers of what to expect in game.

I mean it still could be right, but I feel like when you account for these things it's like trying to cram a puzzle piece into a part of the puzzle that doesn't fit.

 

[blackghost]

I don't get why people try to make exceptions to make a theory sound more valid. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. It's not just able to be pushed aside to make it look more sound.

the theory still can fit. once is an incident, twice is a coincidence, three is a pattern. and inkling trailer could also be seen as a game announcement trailer VERY easily.
also you are forgetting what the mood of speculation was back then: It was new game vs port and inklings are guaranteed in either. its good advertising to get obvious things out first.

do you ahve any other reason why you dont believe it? its more solid than box art.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Still my point. Since the box art is supposedly showing every character its an unfinished version. Isabelle would have to be added.

Again the special edition was shown BEFORE she was confirmed, they already had the image ready for a week, perhaps it was to prevent a possible leak of Isabelle?

Can you explain. I am lost in this conversation.

Check what he's quoting, Ari's talking about how the "There's a pattern in the order of newcomer reveals and their release dates" pattern can't work because Inkling was first and breaks the entire pattern

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So completely divorced from verg or how many characters will be in the final roster, is everybody at least agreeing that it looks likely that we will get an echo somewhere in between Palutena and Cloud based on the patterns on the box?

Yep, In my opinion, it's likely Ken.

 

[Pyra]

The victors laugh at the losers.
Then we forget about it in a week's time and then maybe months later we look back and say "boy that was a doozy haha why is bayo still top tier".

I win regardless of what happens at this point.
At this point in the speculation cycle, it's more fun to me to think about what-ifs against the grain than the most likely scenario haha.

I wonder about the Bayo thing...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Again the special edition was shown BEFORE she was confirmed, they already had the image ready for a week, perhaps it was to prevent a possible leak of Isabelle?

#Onecharacteronlylefttobeconfirmed.

Especially since Isabelle would have to fill in one of those spots.

 

[Will]

Here you go:

The Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Special Edition packaging has been revealed. pic.twitter.com/o5PfLWcWGR

— Toad’s Nintendo News (@MailToadINTEL) September 14, 2018

Seriously, where is the Original 8 on that box? It triggers my fake OCD feelings.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I am gonna abstain from discussing and following this thread for good until the box theory topic stops being a common discussion.

I am gonna stick to the support threads I frequent and the Newcomer Speculation section to avoid the building pessimism/drama.

I am open to the box theory, but the topic is not something I wanna discuss for weeks and weeks. I rather stay in a positive mood.

 

[Pyra]

Seriously, where is the Original 8 on that box? It triggers my fake OCD feelings.

Supposedly on the other side of the box.

Master Hand but no Crazy Hand echo? I don't buy it.

I feel like Crazy Hand is a semi-clone...

 

[Chron]

Master Hand but no Crazy Hand echo? I don't buy it.

Their both the same character, like Ice Climbers.
(And why isn't there a Master Hand option for Melee Main?)

 

[Will]

Not sure what there is to laugh about.

Box theory right, we have 72 characters. People that are arguing against it are angry that they were wrong.
Box theory is wrong. We have more than 72. The people who bought the theory are happy they were wrong and get more characters.

Seems like the only ones that get burned are the ones against it and holding the burning to their hearts.

People right now don't care about if the box theory is true or false. They care about being right first and foremost. not everyone is like that but you get the point

 

[ThatOneAnon]

The box theory, if true, actually seems to line up with the guy who claimed Dante would be revealed in November.
While I do agree that only Ken and Incineroar could be left, I doubt Sakurai would leave us with no big surprises. Dante would be a huge ****ing hype reveal.

 

[Momotsuki]

I am gonna abstain from discussing and following this thread for good until the box theory topic stops being a common discussion..

This. There's literally nothing left to add to it and this stupid back-and-forth is drowning out any other sort of discussion. It's hecking irritating at this point. The topic has been milked for all that it's worth already, can we please talk about SOMETHING else?

 

[Meritocracy]

I win regardless of what happens at this point.
At this point in the speculation cycle, it's more fun to me to think about what-ifs against the grain than the most likely scenario haha.

I wonder about the Bayo thing...

You would have to try very very hard to make Bayo bad, her design maker good, similar to fox.
Defense plus Edgeguard's plus combo equals good, even without kills

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The box theory, if true, actually seems to line up with this.
While I do agree that only Ken and Incineroar could be left, I doubt Sakurai would leave us with no big surprises. Dante would be a huge ****ing hype reveal.

You're forgetting Isabelle has to fill in one of those slots so one character is left to be confirmed.

 

[Will]

Supposedly on the other side of the box.

I feel like Crazy Hand is a semi-clone...

What other side? It looks too thin for the actual side unless they trim it to 2x4.

I feel like Crazy Hand is a semi-clone...

We found the final two fellas, make way for your new top tiers.

 

[Deleted member]

DLC is such a touchy subject for me.

I know it's going to happen, but I'd very much prefer not having DLC characters if that means I have to pay to have the complete roster. Though, if paying for online gets me the DLC then **** it lmao

And I'll be paying for the characters anyway when it comes to it, because I want the full roster anyway, so they already have my money regardless. The potential for DLC is incredible.
I only expect 5 more newcomers (if the Box theory isn't true to life) in base game, most of which are echos, but I have big dreams about DLC characters (given that it's gonna happen whether or not I like it).

But dammit, I want unlockable costumes more than DLC characters, hahaha.

I actually don't think they will lock behind characters as DLC. The lower priority characters I mentioned just might not had time to get developed for the base game and such have to wait for DLC. I suspect that development will start once Ultimate goes gold and we will hear announcements early next year. Smash 4 was arguably a necessary evil due to the Wii U's failing sales but that's not a factor in Ultimate.

I certainly understand the concern though.

Honestly, with a 70+ character roster, I don't know what more do people want. The roster is already absolutely huge as is and if the currently known roster was the final, it would already be an insane roster. But we're getting more and potentially even more through DLC and other updates. I don't think anyone here is appreciating the magnitude of that.

You all are wanting to be right but I know for sure I won't be taking any Ls here because I don't peddle baseless speculation and conspiracy theories unlike a large chunk of this fanbase.

How about we look at the facts? How about we look on what is actually known about the development process of the Smash games via Directs, blog posts from official sites and Sakurai's Famitsu columns? You can look at boxes or chairs. I'll stick with the facts.

It's not more characters that people want, that much I can tell you. If you asked someone to compose a fifty character roster with nothing but their favorites, almost everyone is going to have a roster they would be perfectly content with.

Where the disappointment comes from is that their favorite character isn't in or their franchise wasn't properly represented (however they may define proper representation as). That's something that transcends roster size expectations as the realization hits that it's not the "small" roster size keeping them from getting in but that Sakurai may not see their character as worthy of playable status. Would Sakurai even consider the character in a 150 roster?

Last game, people were not disappointed over the roster size but that certain characters didn't get in. The same will be the case for Ultimate.

 

[Deleted member]

(And why isn't there a Master Hand option for Melee Main?)

Master Hand and Poke Floats are the only two things I would go back to Melee for at this point.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

One thing that the Box theory Has going for it is that Isabelle Started another Row in the fighter section of the website. There are two slots left in that row. If there were two more characters, they could easily fill up that row.

 

[DJ3DS]

I’m genuinely afraid of how the community will react if the box theory is true.

You're basically saying you're afraid of how people will react to this roster? Saying it like this honestly puts it into perspective. Anyone who would genuinely complain about this has no sense of the value of what they're being given (seriously, the roster is already absurd and has been ever since E3).

On a side note, if this is the final roster and the layout, I really like how line up at the end. It just feels appropriate to me.

 

[Will]

This. There's literally nothing left to add to it and this stupid back-and-forth is drowning out any other sort of discussion. It's hecking irritating at this point. The topic has been milked for all that it's worth already, can we please talk about SOMETHING else?

How do they make the boxes? I literally don't know how they do it. Is there some plastic covering that sticks to the cardboard or something?

 

[SquashiniKun]

The box theory, if true, actually seems to line up with the guy who claimed Dante would be revealed in November.
While I do agree that only Ken and Incineroar could be left, I doubt Sakurai would leave us with no big surprises. Dante would be a huge ****ing hype reveal.

I'll only accept Dante IF and only IF they put this on the game's box art.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

#Onecharacteronlylefttobeconfirmed.

Especially since Isabelle would have to fill in one of those spots.

The reason it's 2 is because we don't see the other side but we can predict what's on the other side because there's a pattern which randomly breaks but would be fixed with Ken's additional as a Ryu echo, making it pretty curious

 

[ThatOneAnon]

You're forgetting Isabelle has to fill in one of those slots so one character is left to be confirmed.

Calling it now: November Direct starts with Incineroar, Sakurai then reveals the last echo fighter to be Ken, goes into detail on returning modes, Spirits mode and online, and then ends with Dante.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Wait...was Ken ever confirmed?

 

[drag0nscythe]

People right now don't care about if the box theory is true or false. They care about being right first and foremost. not everyone is like that but you get the point

IT is not about playing the game, it is about complaining about it online.

I for one, do not care about being right or wrong. I have Ridley. I am happy.
Wish I hade Goemon to, but that is what DLC is for. And LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTSSSS of begging.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Uhhhhhhhhh guesses for DLC fighters? Here's one only based on "too late to be considered for the 2015 project plan":

-Arms (depending on if Nintendo sees that as a successful franchise they still want to promote)
-Xenoblade 2 character (Rex, Pyra, Elma)
-Crash Bandicoot (pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease)
-Doomguy (jic Bethesda talking to Nintendo about Smash Bros meant something)
-8th Gen Pokeman???
-FE Three Houses rep (though I hope not, we've had plenty of recent new FE reps as it is)

What else??

 

[Deleted member]

Wait...was Ken ever confirmed?

Yeah, he was confirmed yesterday in a surprise Twitter reveal.

 

[Will]

Wait...was Ken ever confirmed?

Gematsu's third cousin supposedly confirmed his inclusion.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The reason it's 2 is because we don't see the other side but we can predict what's on the other side because there's a pattern which randomly breaks but would be fixed with Ken's additional as a Ryu echo, making it pretty curious

So then for all we know we could be getting three more characters. The other side could be two empty spots for all we know. I'd put my bets on Geno or Isaac.

 

[Deleted member]

FE Three Houses rep (though I hope not, we've had plenty of recent new FE reps as it is)

I hope so, but only if it's Edelgard because then I can say Homura made it in.

 

[Pyra]

You would have to try very very hard to make Bayo bad, her design maker good, similar to fox.
Defense plus Edgeguard's plus combo equals good, even without kills

Take her legs away.

What other side? It looks too thin for the actual side unless they trim it to 2x4.

Regardless of how I feel about the theory at all, it is true that in the promotional box artwork that the characters seem to be grouped by 9s abstractly (as in, even though they are rows of 6 they are grouped by 9s). 9, because the original 8 plus Dark Samus. They'd all be on the other left side of the box the way the artwork is displayed currently.

Not that the original 8 can't be plastered anywhere else for being that exclusive clique or anything.

We found the final two fellas, make way for your new top tiers.

Can't wait for the video people will make of moveset swapping Bayo onto Master Hand to make him dance.

 

[Loz18-Echo]

All I'm saying it's a digital mock-up

 

[Will]

All I'm saying it's a digital mock-up
View attachment 164452

Picasso? You were supposed to be dead like 40 years ago

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Wait...was Ken ever confirmed?

No but it looks like we might get an echo character between Palutena and Cloud unless the marketers can't count or don't follow their own pattern.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

So completely divorced from verg or how many characters will be in the final roster, is everybody at least agreeing that it looks likely that we will get an echo somewhere in between Palutena and Cloud based on the patterns on the box?

I think this is the only thing we can get out of the box for sure, even though lots of people will disagree.

Don't see why in a mock-up they would leave a space in the pattern on the other side, especially if they were just gunna fill the last row with blank spaces anyway.