Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Michele]

If the file is encrypted (it will be) it won't get datamined.

I'm assuming Nintendo has to go very far with the encrypting then.

I mean...Star Allies got leaked so Nintendo will need to go far for Smash Ultimate.

 

[Untouch]

https://www.nintendo.com/switch/online-service/special-offers/

Actually they did release info about the last option and I think even MORE now that it'll be related. Splatoon gets some gear if you're subscribed and it explicitly states that subscribers will get more stuff as time goes on.

 

[lightdrago]

What do you guys think the unlock requirements for characters will be?

For Rosalina, I expect we have to play ~10x on the Mario Galaxy map.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I feel like people really sleep on this Pokemon.
He gets brought up every now and then but I personally just find him to be so much more interesting than Incineroar or Decidueye.

His design is super weird and different from any other fighter on the roster, he's got a ton of personality, he'd have health-sapping abilities which is a rarity in smash, and there aren't any bug type pokemon on the roster yet.

There are already so many playable starter Pokemon and an Ultra Beast would be a really nice change of pace. UBs were pretty important to the story of Sun/Moon too.

I feel like the only Problem with Buzzwole, is that he's a version Exclusive Pokemon. Correct me if i'm wrong... But I don't think we have a playable Version Exclusive Pokemon in smash. If one got in, people would assume that the Version that includes it, is the superior one and I don't Think The Pokemon Company would really want that Notion. Besides, I'm more of a Pheromosa type of guy. Seriously though, If any Ultra Beast is getting into Smash, It's probably Nihilego. It's basically the face of Ultra Beasts and has an Important Role In Sun And Moon.

 

[Deleted member]

What do you guys think the unlock requirements for characters will be?

For Rosalina, I expect we have to play ~10x on the Mario Galaxy map.

Mewtwo: Play VS. Mode for 20 hours.

Not even kidding, I want this requirement back so badly. Mewtwo should also have other requirements, but I want his stupid Melee one back just because of how infamous it is.

 

[Buzzwole]

What are everyone's thoughts on:
New FE Rep
Rex & Pyra
Toon Zelda
New FF Rep

I know its a tired argument at this point, but Fire Emblem has more than enough representation in Smash Bros. The series is a celebration of Nintendo and it's history. I think development time spent on another FE character at this rate would be a shame considering how many other series still only have one or two characters. Someone else from F-Zero, Pikmin, Punch-Out, etc would be a much, MUCH better use of development time.
If I *HAD* to pick another FE rep though, it would be Black Knight because he's at least very distinct visually from anyone else.

Rex and Pyra are whatever to me. Xenoblade could use more representation in Smash but I'm really not crazy about the character designs in 2. Personally I wouldn't get excited about them, but if a series has one rep, I'm always alright with another getting added.

Toon Zelda isn't necessary. We already have two zeldas on the roster and three links. I'd much rather a new Zelda character like Skull Kid or Tingle. Despite having 6 characters, its all variations of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf. I think Zelda deserves more love, but not in the form of another version of Zelda herself.

New FF rep is something I'm also indifferent about. Third party characters are guests in Smash Bros, and I don't think they should be a priority over 1st party Nintendo characters. Adding echoes for them is fine, but I think one per series otherwise is fine. If Cloud got an echo, that'd be okay with me.

 

[T-Hell]

I'd rather have new franchises be represented playable-wise for the first time in the game: Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, ARMS.. And new characters for already represented franchises that I personally feel that deserve or could use a new one: Zelda, Mother or Xenoblades.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

-okay maybe

EDIT, typo: - No one but her represents the genre in smash and she has a unique moveset. Crazy as balls that she's here but not an unnecessary addition. Now that ballot business is sketchy because I think she was decided from the start but eh.

- In the video game hall of fame with Lara...

I like the guys you mentioned but we're speaking in subjective reasonings here.

I would argue Lara is more recognizable and iconic then Cloud especially being she's without a doubt the most iconic female video game protagonist.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

My very fist job in my life was actually making those mock-ups for several products. If you're interested, I can explain a bit on how (usually) works.

When you need a visual design for a product, be it a toy, a balm bottle, a keychain of whatever you first tell the graphic designer to do the first draft (my job). This is also the case for many boxes, especially for special editions. After the work is done, your supervisor check it and give the feedback: maybe is too dark for the target audience, maybe the colors are off, maybe you idea sucks, and so on.
Now keep in mind that at this moment the image is still a photoshopped image, not a 3D render (most of the time; I'm talking about my personal experience), and in rare cases those photoshopped images end to be the actual "official" one. Like this one (look at the toilet paper), as opposed to this one. See the difference?
Once the supervisor gives the ok, the process proceed. Remember this part for later.
Then, in the case of a product box, it goes straight to a specific department that make the actual box. I said specific because they are responsible for basically everything regarding the actual box: the colors (if you're familiar with RGB vs CMYK you know what I mean), font dimension (very important if the wording need to be translated), all the box sides, and all those fine prints you see on every box. In this stage the intern can actually make some changes, especially true if you consider that most companies always have some kind of "template" regarding their products. Just grab any box near you and you'll see with your own eyes: the prints, the warnings, the logos, the alignment. There are actual people who specifically work on those, in order to have a good looking AND functional product.
After all that, it usually got double-checked and finally released to the public (and to the physical manufactor). Remember, this process takes place AFTER the actual product is done (or at least should be).

Before proceeding, keep in mind that I worked in a small company and not in a huge multinational, and basically never in a NDA environment. So from now take everything with a grain of salt.

Now, from my personal experience, on this "box theory" I can tell you this. The Smash Bros Special Edition Box is real, like an actual physical box that has been sent to Amazon, along with a specific serial number (and tons of paperwork) in order to be and actual buyable product. Remember that the ESBR already have the final version of the game with all the characters in it, its basically already finished.
But that box is a placeholder. "Hurr-dur, of course its a placeholder, Isabelle is not on it!". And that's the point.
Remember the supervisor stage? In this particular case, the team already know the full rooster but they get specifically instructed about what characters are going to be revealed to the public, so its up to the supervisor to tell "put all the characters up to the 67°, we are going to send this before the planned 5th september direct" or something like that to the poor intern, so he (and later the box department) have to create a desing with those instructions in place.
If you consider that the Steelbox was already announced back in august (look at the date), I think its pretty safe to assume that whoever created that box was specifically instructed on how many characters he was supposed to show. So the empty slots are there for a reason, they are not random.

Its interesting to note the discrepancy in the Palutena-Corrin segment, from my point of view it could really be a slip up of an echo fighter there (Ken/Medusa/Ms. Pacman/Zack...), I mean, it wouldn't be the first time Nintendo screw up like this. But regarding the supposed single remaining slot, I'm pretty confident its a placeholder. As in, the entire grid might change, shrunk, moved, some characters may be on the back and so on.
That said, don't expect 5-6 more unique anyways, Sakurai specifically told us the opposite. There are probably 2 more left, 3 if you want to be optimistic.

Hope it helped.

TL;DR: 90% placeholder, 10% true.

****ING THANK YOU. The box theory really is bull****.

 

[Chrono.]

What do you guys think the unlock requirements for characters will be?

For Rosalina, I expect we have to play ~10x on the Mario Galaxy map.

I think you'll unlock them automatically via spirits mode.

Similar to how they were automatically unlocked by meeting them in Subspace.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

What do you guys think the unlock requirements for characters will be?

For Rosalina, I expect we have to play ~10x on the Mario Galaxy map.

Pichu: Lose 10 Matches as Pikachu

 

[PushDustIn]

I'm assuming Nintendo has to go very far with the encrypting then.

I mean...Star Allies got leaked so Nintendo will need to go far for Smash Ultimate.

new version of the OS means that new keys will be extracted. They are apparently changing some things which will make extracting game files a bit more complicated.

(As far as I know. I'm not involved with Switch hacking)

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

What do you guys think the unlock requirements for characters will be?

For Rosalina, I expect we have to play ~10x on the Mario Galaxy map.

Sonic: Complete Classic Mode as Mario

 

[True Blue Warrior]

What are everyone's thoughts on:
New FE Rep
Rex & Pyra
Toon Zelda
New FF Rep

I'm sure this will be the community reaction to those characters getting in as DLC. But hey, we all know that Toon Zelda was the true ballot winner!

 

[Pakky]

I would argue Lara is more recognizable and iconic then Cloud especially being she's without a doubt the most iconic female video game protagonist.

Subjective really, because in some cases Cloud IS Final Fantasy man.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Wait, if bait has a hook at the end of it, and Isabelle fishes up fighters...
She digs the hook into other fighters skin...Isabelle is no longer innocent

 

[Murlough]

What are everyone's thoughts on:
New FE Rep
Rex & Pyra
Toon Zelda
New FF Rep

Eh to all of them.

1. I’m ok with more FE but the rest of the community would implode.
2. I don’t like Rex and Pyra.
3. I actually would like her but I wouldn’t call her a “want.”
4. With how well they did the last one? Ehhhhh. Kidding aside, I dunno. Depends on who it is.

 

[Spinosaurus]

****ING THANK YOU. The box theory really is bull****.

They didn't really disprove it, though, they even think Ken (or any other echo that could make sense there) is happening.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Subjective really, because in some cases Cloud IS Final Fantasy man.

Touche.

 

[Buzzwole]

I feel like the only Problem with Buzzwole, is that he's a version Exclusive Pokemon. Correct me if i'm wrong... But I don't think we have a playable Version Exclusive Pokemon in smash. If one got in, people would assume that the Version that includes it, is the superior one and I don't Think The Pokemon Company would really want that Notion. Besides, I'm more of a Pheromosa type of guy. Seriously though, If any Ultra Beast is getting into Smash, It's probably Nihilego. It's basically the face of Ultra Beasts and has an Important Role In Sun And Moon.

I don't think being version exclusive hurts his odds at all, but I do agree about his overall irrelevance to the plot getting in his way. Nihilego is definitely the most important UB. I just can't see it as a fighter. It lacks any sort of character, you know? Its like a Metroid or something. Its cool, but it doesn't have much personality to it.

I do have high hopes that we'll get a Nihilego/Lusamine boss battle though.

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

What are everyone's thoughts on:
New FE Rep
Rex & Pyra
Toon Zelda
New FF Rep

• Meh, not my cup of tea
• Awesome
• See my thought on a new FE rep
• Cool

 

[Pakky]

Touche.

No not at all. I'm being transparent.

Spoiler: Cloud in other media

Spoiler: Lara in other media

 

[Heracr055]

Just to reiterate...I would be ecstatic if Shantae or Lusamine get in. Only the former has a shot for the base game, while the latter has almost no chance except for DLC (and even then an infinitesimally small chance). Would be hype af for a Pokemon rep tho.

 

[Deleted member]

Subjective really, because in some cases Cloud IS Final Fantasy man.

I think Final Fantasy is a pretty cool guy. eh not interested and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Michele]

new version of the OS means that new keys will be extracted. They are apparently changing some things which will make extracting game files a bit more complicated.

(As far as I know. I'm not involved with Switch hacking)

Wait, really? Sounds like a very hard cookie to crack. I remember Nintendo hosting that event where if a hacker managed to find a exploit/loophole then he would get money.

I'll bring this up with the hackers and before you ask me, Mr. Wario-Luma, no, I am not a hacker nor do I know how to hack. I just feel like they need to be informed since it will be harder to crack.

 

[ErenJager]

I would argue Lara is more recognizable and iconic then Cloud especially being she's without a doubt the most iconic female video game protagonist.

Tomb Raider as a series is no doubt iconic and popular. However it's legacy is much shorter then most of the other third party series in Smash, aside from Sega. The rest date back the arcade/ nes era.

 

[Freduardo]

So completely divorced from verg or how many characters will be in the final roster, is everybody at least agreeing that it looks likely that we will get an echo somewhere in between Palutena and Cloud based on the patterns on the box?

So either Ryu or Pac Man gets an echo.

Ken or Miss Pac Man.

So Ken.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

A small part of me don't want to know how the Smash fanbase will react to Fighter #69.

Spoiler

Emphasis on "small".

 

[T-Hell]

What do you guys think the unlock requirements for characters will be?

For Rosalina, I expect we have to play ~10x on the Mario Galaxy map.

You guys seem to be forgetting all the time what Sakurai says. He said that the unlock methods would be streamlined so chars. would be constantly showing up. I firmly believe most if not all will be unlocked in that new mode. Or even by beating Classic.

 

[Deleted member]

So either Ryu or Pac Man gets an echo.

Ken or Miss Pac Man.

So Ken.

Y'all are counting out Zanza as a Shulk echo too easily. Sakurai clearly doesn't care about spoilers, might as well spoil the endgame too.

 

[PushDustIn]

So either Ryu or Pac Man gets an echo.

Ken or Miss Pac Man.

So Ken.

Miss Pac-Man was robbed.

 

[Nonno Umby]

My very fist job in my life was actually making those mock-ups for several products. If you're interested, I can explain a bit on how (usually) works.

When you need a visual design for a product, be it a toy, a balm bottle, a keychain of whatever you first tell the graphic designer to do the first draft (my job). This is also the case for many boxes, especially for special editions. After the work is done, your supervisor check it and give the feedback: maybe is too dark for the target audience, maybe the colors are off, maybe you idea sucks, and so on.
Now keep in mind that at this moment the image is still a photoshopped image, not a 3D render (most of the time; I'm talking about my personal experience), and in rare cases those photoshopped images end to be the actual "official" one. Like this one (look at the toilet paper), as opposed to this one. See the difference?
Once the supervisor gives the ok, the process proceed. Remember this part for later.
Then, in the case of a product box, it goes straight to a specific department that make the actual box. I said specific because they are responsible for basically everything regarding the actual box: the colors (if you're familiar with RGB vs CMYK you know what I mean), font dimension (very important if the wording need to be translated), all the box sides, and all those fine prints you see on every box. In this stage the intern can actually make some changes, especially true if you consider that most companies always have some kind of "template" regarding their products. Just grab any box near you and you'll see with your own eyes: the prints, the warnings, the logos, the alignment. There are actual people who specifically work on those, in order to have a good looking AND functional product.
After all that, it usually got double-checked and finally released to the public (and to the physical manufactor). Remember, this process takes place AFTER the actual product is done (or at least should be).

Before proceeding, keep in mind that I worked in a small company and not in a huge multinational, and basically never in a NDA environment. So from now take everything with a grain of salt.

Now, from my personal experience, on this "box theory" I can tell you this. The Smash Bros Special Edition Box is real, like an actual physical box that has been sent to Amazon, along with a specific serial number (and tons of paperwork) in order to be and actual buyable product. Remember that the ESBR already have the final version of the game with all the characters in it, its basically already finished.
But that box is a placeholder. "Hurr-dur, of course its a placeholder, Isabelle is not on it!". And that's the point.
Remember the supervisor stage? In this particular case, the team already know the full rooster but they get specifically instructed about what characters are going to be revealed to the public, so its up to the supervisor to tell "put all the characters up to the 67°, we are going to send this before the planned 5th september direct" or something like that to the poor intern, so he (and later the box department) have to create a desing with those instructions in place.
If you consider that the Steelbox was already announced back in august (look at the date), I think its pretty safe to assume that whoever created that box was specifically instructed on how many characters he was supposed to show. So the empty slots are there for a reason, they are not random.

Its interesting to note the discrepancy in the Palutena-Corrin segment, from my point of view it could really be a slip up of an echo fighter there (Ken/Medusa/Ms. Pacman/Zack...), I mean, it wouldn't be the first time Nintendo screw up like this. But regarding the supposed single remaining slot, I'm pretty confident its a placeholder. As in, the entire grid might change, shrunk, moved, some characters may be on the back and so on.
That said, don't expect 5-6 more unique anyways, Sakurai specifically told us the opposite. There are probably 2 more left, 3 if you want to be optimistic.

Hope it helped.

TL;DR: 90% placeholder, 10% true.

Thank you very much for sharing this.
Also, Smash aside, I always been interested in this kind of stuff, so this reading was actually really fascinating.

 

[Wyoming]

Still hoping it is Sakura instead of Ken, despite that being impossible.

 

[Pakky]

Still hoping it is Sakura instead of Ken, despite that being impossible.

I want Chun -Li so god damn bad.

#feels bad man

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

lara croft has the esteemed title of being a more likely square enix character in smash than gex or einhander

 

[Deleted member]

lara croft has the esteemed title of being a more likely square enix character in smash than gex or einhander

Dang, I've been hoping for Gex since Melee...

 

[Opossum]

What are everyone's thoughts on:
New FE Rep
Rex & Pyra
Toon Zelda
New FF Rep

As long as it's someone good like Celica, yay. :D
Not a fan of these two at all due to their gross designs. Probably happening though.
I'd prefer Daruk, but if she got in it'd be cool info they went the "spirit possessing armor" route.
I'm clueless as far as Final Fantasy but I'd be cool with it.

 

[Pakky]

Is it just my ignorance or am I the only one not a fan of the realistic direction Tomb Raider has taken?

Like I don't know the OverWatch or Fortnite style of pseudo-realism seems like it would fit better.

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Miss Pac-Man was robbed.

I think she'll get in as dlc, maybe with Shadow. It would be cool if we got echo dlc.

 

[Untouch]

Looking into merch sales for pokemon based on Pokemon Center (TPC's merch site), here are the top selling (commonly requested) gen 7 pokemon of each type of merch in order of appearance...

Plushies ( https://www.pokemoncenter.com/plush/poké-plush-s0101-0001-0000 )

1. Buzzwole
2. Lycanroc
3. Primarina
4. Tapu Koku
5. Decidueye
6. Incineroar
7. Necrozma

Figures and Pins ( https://www.pokemoncenter.com/figures---pins )

1. Silvally
2. Necrozma
3. Decidueye/Primarina/Incineroar
4. Kommo-o

TCG Tins ( https://www.pokemoncenter.com/trading-card-game/tins-s0105-0001-0007)

1. Necrozma
2. Tapu Koko
3. Decidueye/Primarina/Incineroar
4. Primarnia
5. Lycanrock

Just in general here are the solo results when it comes to merch for each character...

• Silvally: 3
• Necrozma: 15
• Incineroar: 4
• Decidueye: 4
• Primarina: 4
• Tapu Koko: 10
• Buzzwole: 2
• Golisopod: 3
• Lycanrock: 8

There seems to be absolutely no pattern when it comes to this, I see some people suggest that characters are a lock because of merch but I don't see any pokemon getting more merch than others outside of Necrozma.