Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chrono.]

She would make a LOT of sense as an alternate costume or an echo (it's weird she didn't get a trophy despite being on Pac-Land). Part of me wonders if Bandai Namco is still iffy in regards to her origin as a Midway pirated/hack.

Also Alph not making echo status with Rock Pikmin.

I think Alph is a case of him being such low priority that they rather not bother, or Sakurai not being able to make Rock Pikmin work like he would've liked somehow.

I feel the same way towards the cut Chorus Kids.

 

[The Legendary Beast]

My thoughts on today's never ending topic.

 

[Over9000BPM]

He doesn't have to be careful because I'm pretty sure he's not gonna complain about that every opportunity he gets like someone I know.

Sorry, let’s talk about a photoshopped placeholder image of a box like it actually means anything instead

Yeah, yeah, I know.

"Oh no, you want her to a sex object? You pervert!"

But really I don't, Tomb Raider isn't Uncharted, Lara fights like dinosaurs and can be turned into gold. I'd rather her turn into low- level superhuman than a struggling normal person.

I just like cartoon jank which is why & are so great.

On one had you have cults and child soldiers but then you have talks of 'crying baby cockroaches' and PYSCHO MANTIS antagonizing you about playing Mario Sunshine.

So true. You watch Zero Punctuation? His review of Bayonetta 2 basically sums up my opinion of both Bayonetta and the Tomb Raider reboot to an absolute T.

 

[Momotsuki]

I think Smash Ultimate will get a fair bit more DLC than Smash 4 did. The install base is pretty much guaranteed to be far larger and longer-lasting.

 

[Nap_]

I'm looking at that pic and... Looking at how both sides are displayed and with the lack of Isabelle... Could be possible, since that the boxart is a WIP, that they made the design just using the pics avaliables at that time and both sides are incomplete?
Not even Ken, just a blank space in the other side, two spaces in this one.
I'm with this boxart theory for just two newcomers more but I think that some questions are reasonable.

 

[Luigi The President]

Anything change since last night?

 

[Momotsuki]

Anything change since last night?

Just more cardboard.

 

[Mr. Trumo]

What do you guys think the unlock requirements for characters will be?

For Rosalina, I expect we have to play ~10x on the Mario Galaxy map.

Here's some random ones I thought of.

Ridley: Play a VS. match with Bowser and Ganondorf
King K. Rool: Beat Classic as Donkey Kong or Diddy Kong
Young Link: Play a VS. match on Great Bay as Link
Dr. Mario: Win 5 matches as Mario
Chrom: Beat Classic as Roy under 10 minutes

 

[T-Hell]

Sorry, let’s talk about a photoshopped placeholder image of a box like it actually means anything instead

Don't tell that to me, I don't believe nor wanna talk about the box theory

 

[Over9000BPM]

Anything change since last night?

Yeah, a box. Mucho excitement.

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah, a box. Mucho excitement.

I said SINCE last night.

Just more cardboard.

Oh boy.

 

[Chrono.]

Anything change since last night?

Nothing, we're going in circles at this point.

My stance is still the same: Ken basically confirmed, everything after that is foggier but wouldn't be surprised, shocked or disappointed to see only one newcomer left with DLC being packed.

 

[Luigi The President]

Nothing, we're going in circles at this point.

My stance is still the same: Ken basically confirmed, everything after that is foggier but wouldn't be surprised, shocked or disappointed to see only one newcomer left with DLC being packed.

I mean to anyone who's actually surprised Ken's in raise your hand lol

 

[Murlough]

How would you guys react if Bubsy got into smash.

"Who?"

EDIT: After looking him up: basically the same way I would react to Chuckee Cheese being added to Smash.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I'm looking at that pic and... Looking at how both sides are displayed and with the lack of Isabelle... Could be possible, since that the boxart is a WIP, that they made the design just using the pics avaliables at that time and both sides are incomplete?
Not even Ken, just a blank space in the other side, two spaces in this one.
I'm with this boxart theory for just two newcomers more but I think that some questions are reasonable.
View attachment 164468

Like, this isn't exactly wrong.

But what exactly is the point of doing that for a WIP on a side we can't actually see, you know?

 

[Pakky]

Sorry, let’s talk about a photoshopped placeholder image of a box like it actually means anything instead

So true. You watch Zero Punctuation? His review of Bayonetta 2 basically sums up my opinion of both Bayonetta and the Tomb Raider reboot to an absolute T.

I agree. Her getting beat down by trees while screaming in pain (like Jesus guys) is a lot more cringy than her say breaking into a banquet hall riding a velociraptor in venus swimsuit.

 

[Zathura]

It’s sad that literally only two days after the direct we’re already scrambling over something new Although tbf this one seems to hold somebody credibility

 

[splat]

I wonder what kind of characters will be predominate in the DLC?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Japanese third party characters again. DLC characters have to be hype-worthy enough for many people to buy them: for DLC you'd want something different than what was featured in the base game. Characters like Cloud and Ryu get a ton of buzz going on around the internet, while first parties will probably stay mostly in circles already interested in Smash.

Communication/Negotiation is much easier between Japanese companies - and as there are still so many interesting Japanese characters remaining, there isn't really a need to look overseas just yet, I think.

If they don't make the base game (which I kind of doubt for most of these characters anyway), I'm guessing characters like Dante, Heihachi, Jill Valentine, Phoenix Wright, Sora, Monster Hunter, Lara Croft (Squeenix now, right?), Erdrick or Ryu Hayabusa have the biggest chance.

 

[PsySmasher]

I don't want to sound spoiled or anything, but if the "box theory" is true, the number of unique newcomers (even w/ all the circumstances) seems kinda... small.

Unique Newcomers
Inkling
Ridley
Simon
King K. Rool
Isabelle (who is mostly unique)
A 6th newcomer

NEW Echoes (movesets are heavily based on other characters)
Daisy
Richter
Chrom
Dark Samus
A 5th echo (probably Ken)

Returning Veterans (movesets are mostly kept intact from previous installments)
Ice Climbers
Pichu
Young Link
Snake
Squritle
Ivysaur
Wolf

That's a total of 18 characters up from Smash 4 (I'm counting Squirtle and Ivysaur separately) w/ 12 being based on past movesets. No characters cut. 67% of the increased roster are characters w/ moves we've seen before or they're literally characters we've seen before (just not for a long time).

In comparison the base roster of Smash 4, compared to Brawl, was up 17 characters (counting Miss separately) w/ only 2 being based on past movesets. 5 characters were cut from Brawl (Lucas did come back later). Only 12% of the increased roster are characters w/ moves we've seen before.

It's also good to note that Smash 4 (which was 2 separate games) and Ultimate had a similar amount of development time.

I get that Ultimate's main draw is to honor the series as a whole. But in terms of unique newcomers, 6 seems extremely low; Melee had more unique newcomers and was developed in a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller period of time. Heck, Melee would still have added more clone characters than Ultimate, and their clones we're more unique than the echo fighters we've got now.

Stages are a MUCH bigger offender of this, but I'll save that for a later post.

Now if you told me 6 newcomers post-E3, pre-Smash Direct, I wouldn't be too surprised. But after revealing 2 uniques and 3 echoes in a single direct, many people, including myself, were conditioned to believe that they'll be many more characters (or at the very least more echoes) to be revealed.

If the box theory is true, I honestly don't understand why they decided to reveal all of these characters sooner than later, or spacing them out more evenly. They allowed us to speculate about all of these characters that we expect to make in it, but the remaining roster may be much more limited in reality.

Even Vergeben would be proven wrong, since he still has 3 newcomers he leaked: Ken, a Gen 7 Pokemon, and a Square rep. None of the Smash info he leaked has been debunked and the majority of his Smash leaks have been true.

Again this could all be proven false. It just seems weird to me to go this route if this is true. Unless there's a MAJOR variety of enjoyable modes (not like Smash Tour), including some sort of story. I honestly can't see them going this route. And I hope they don't.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Don't tell that to me, I don't believe nor wanna talk about the box theory

The point is that it’s really difficult for me NOT to bring certain things up because there’s literally nothing else to talk about! Our big anticipated direct after all the drama was a single new character we all saw coming from a mile away! And now we’re all discussing a blooming BOX.

 

[Luigi The President]

I don't want to sound spoiled or anything, but if the "box theory" is true, the number of unique newcomers (even w/ all the circumstances) seems kinda... small.

Unique Newcomers
Inkling
Ridley
Simon
King K. Rool
Isabelle (who is mostly unique)
A 6th newcomer

NEW Echoes (movesets are heavily based on other characters)
Daisy
Richter
Chrom
Dark Samus
A 5th echo (probably Ken)

Returning Veterans (movesets are mostly kept intact from previous installments)
Ice Climbers
Pichu
Young Link
Snake
Squritle
Ivysaur
Wolf

That's a total of 18 characters up from Smash 4 (I'm counting Squirtle and Ivysaur separately) w/ 12 being based on past movesets. No characters cut. 67% of the increased roster are characters w/ moves we've seen before or they're literally characters we've seen before (just not for a long time).

In comparison the base roster of Smash 4, compared to Brawl, was up 17 characters (counting Miss separately) w/ only 2 being based on past movesets. 5 characters were cut from Brawl (Lucas did come back later). Only 12% of the increased roster are characters w/ moves we've seen before.

It's also good to note that Smash 4 (which was 2 separate games) and Ultimate had a similar amount of development time.

I get that Ultimate's main draw is to honor the series as a whole. But in terms of unique newcomers, 6 seems extremely low; Melee had more unique newcomers and was developed in a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller period of time. Heck, Melee would still have added more clone characters than Ultimate, and their clones we're more unique than the echo fighters we've got now.

Stages are a MUCH bigger offender of this, but I'll save that for a later post.

Now if you told me 6 newcomers post-E3, pre-Smash Direct, I wouldn't be too surprised. But after revealing 2 uniques and 3 echoes in a single direct, many people, including myself, were conditioned to believe that they'll be many more characters (or at the very least more echoes) to be revealed.

If the box theory is true, I honestly don't understand why they decided to reveal all of these characters sooner than later, or spacing them out more evenly. They allowed us to speculate about all of these characters that we expect to make in it, but the remaining roster may be much more limited in reality.

Even Vergeben would be proven wrong, since he still has 3 newcomers he leaked: Ken, a Gen 7 Pokemon, and a Square rep. None of the Smash info he leaked has been debunked and the majority of his Smash leaks have been true.

Again this could all be proven false. It just seems weird to me to go this route if this is true. Unless there's a MAJOR variety of enjoyable modes (not like Smash Tour), including some sort of story. I honestly can't see them going this route. And I hope they don't.

Believe it or not, you ARE allowed to feel a bit saddened at a low number of unique newcomers.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

My final roster predictions are Incineroar and Ken with Geno as DLC

Going to be optimistic about that

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I mean I could keep going on the box, but as always, people reserve the right to be skeptical. We should skeptical of things. I believe we may know the entire roster now, simply based on particular information, but that doesn’t mean everyone has to.

I will say that I think Rex & Pyra, and Spring Man are in a good place for DLC. While i’d like to think Isaac and Geno have a good shot, I must admit it’s a tad pessimistic for me.

Although, 3rd parties have a good shot for DLC I’m general based on how the profit would be split up. But what do I know?

 

[T-Hell]

I don't want to sound spoiled or anything, but if the "box theory" is true, the number of unique newcomers (even w/ all the circumstances) seems kinda... small.

Well.. even though I agree, Sakurai warned us about this matter after all.

 

[Murlough]

I don't want to sound spoiled or anything, but if the "box theory" is true, the number of unique newcomers (even w/ all the circumstances) seems kinda... small.

Unique Newcomers
Inkling
Ridley
Simon
King K. Rool
Isabelle (who is mostly unique)
A 6th newcomer

NEW Echoes (movesets are heavily based on other characters)
Daisy
Richter
Chrom
Dark Samus
A 5th echo (probably Ken)

Returning Veterans (movesets are mostly kept intact from previous installments)
Ice Climbers
Pichu
Young Link
Snake
Squritle
Ivysaur
Wolf

That's a total of 18 characters up from Smash 4 (I'm counting Squirtle and Ivysaur separately) w/ 12 being based on past movesets. No characters cut. 67% of the increased roster are characters w/ moves we've seen before or they're literally characters we've seen before (just not for a long time).

In comparison the base roster of Smash 4, compared to Brawl, was up 17 characters (counting Miss separately) w/ only 2 being based on past movesets. 5 characters were cut from Brawl (Lucas did come back later). Only 12% of the increased roster are characters w/ moves we've seen before.

It's also good to note that Smash 4 (which was 2 separate games) and Ultimate had a similar amount of development time.

I get that Ultimate's main draw is to honor the series as a whole. But in terms of unique newcomers, 6 seems extremely low; Melee had more unique newcomers and was developed in a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller period of time. Heck, Melee would still have added more clone characters than Ultimate, and their clones we're more unique than the echo fighters we've got now.

Stages are a MUCH bigger offender of this, but I'll save that for a later post.

Now if you told me 6 newcomers post-E3, pre-Smash Direct, I wouldn't be too surprised. But after revealing 2 uniques and 3 echoes in a single direct, many people, including myself, were conditioned to believe that they'll be many more characters (or at the very least more echoes) to be revealed.

If the box theory is true, I honestly don't understand why they decided to reveal all of these characters sooner than later, or spacing them out more evenly. They allowed us to speculate about all of these characters that we expect to make in it, but the remaining roster may be much more limited in reality.

Even Vergeben would be proven wrong, since he still has 3 newcomers he leaked: Ken, a Gen 7 Pokemon, and a Square rep. None of the Smash info he leaked has been debunked and the majority of his Smash leaks have been true.

Again this could all be proven false. It just seems weird to me to go this route if this is true. Unless there's a MAJOR variety of enjoyable modes (not like Smash Tour), including some sort of story. I honestly can't see them going this route. And I hope they don't.

I mean, Sakurai did say to expect less newcomers, to be fair.

Not saying anything one way or the other but I feel the need to bring it up again. Expecting a ton of newcomers can only disappoint you. If you were right then you were right. If you are wrong then "woe is me Sakurai didn't put in enough characters my favorites aren't here wah wah boo hoo reeee." Not saying you but there are plenty in the fanbase that are already doing this.

Just enjoy the ride now so you don't drown in salt later. Maybe the boxart thing is legit. Maybe it isn't. Hopefully, you're smart and don't let it get to you either way. As others have said, I'm totally ok with the game releasing as is. I would have thrown money at Sakurai just for Ridley and Pichu.

 

[praline]

Honestly as annoyed or frustrated I was. I’m not really anymore. The roster is fantastic and there’s definitely gonna be dlc newcomers so that’ll be cool.

I kinda hope we get seasons of dlc

 

[Deleted member]

I don't want to sound spoiled or anything, but if the "box theory" is true, the number of unique newcomers (even w/ all the circumstances) seems kinda... small.

Unique Newcomers
Inkling
Ridley
Simon
King K. Rool
Isabelle (who is mostly unique)
A 6th newcomer

NEW Echoes (movesets are heavily based on other characters)
Daisy
Richter
Chrom
Dark Samus
A 5th echo (probably Ken)

Returning Veterans (movesets are mostly kept intact from previous installments)
Ice Climbers
Pichu
Young Link
Snake
Squritle
Ivysaur
Wolf

That's a total of 18 characters up from Smash 4 (I'm counting Squirtle and Ivysaur separately) w/ 12 being based on past movesets. No characters cut. 67% of the increased roster are characters w/ moves we've seen before or they're literally characters we've seen before (just not for a long time).

In comparison the base roster of Smash 4, compared to Brawl, was up 17 characters (counting Miss separately) w/ only 2 being based on past movesets. 5 characters were cut from Brawl (Lucas did come back later). Only 12% of the increased roster are characters w/ moves we've seen before.

It's also good to note that Smash 4 (which was 2 separate games) and Ultimate had a similar amount of development time.

I get that Ultimate's main draw is to honor the series as a whole. But in terms of unique newcomers, 6 seems extremely low; Melee had more unique newcomers and was developed in a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller period of time. Heck, Melee would still have added more clone characters than Ultimate, and their clones we're more unique than the echo fighters we've got now.

Stages are a MUCH bigger offender of this, but I'll save that for a later post.

Now if you told me 6 newcomers post-E3, pre-Smash Direct, I wouldn't be too surprised. But after revealing 2 uniques and 3 echoes in a single direct, many people, including myself, were conditioned to believe that they'll be many more characters (or at the very least more echoes) to be revealed.

If the box theory is true, I honestly don't understand why they decided to reveal all of these characters sooner than later, or spacing them out more evenly. They allowed us to speculate about all of these characters that we expect to make in it, but the remaining roster may be much more limited in reality.

Even Vergeben would be proven wrong, since he still has 3 newcomers he leaked: Ken, a Gen 7 Pokemon, and a Square rep. None of the Smash info he leaked has been debunked and the majority of his Smash leaks have been true.

Again this could all be proven false. It just seems weird to me to go this route if this is true. Unless there's a MAJOR variety of enjoyable modes (not like Smash Tour), including some sort of story. I honestly can't see them going this route. And I hope they don't.

I mean, Sakurai did say don't expect too many newcomers. But honestly, even if we do have only one newcomer left, I won't be upset because this roster is looking like the best roster this series has seen yet. Seriously, you have no idea how much I wanted Snake back into Smash.

 

[Originality]

I get that Ultimate's main draw is to honor the series as a whole. But in terms of unique newcomers, 6 seems extremely low; Melee had more unique newcomers and was developed in a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller period of time. Heck, Melee would still have added more clone characters than Ultimate, and their clones we're more unique than the echo fighters we've got now.

It's ok to be disappointed, but I don't think this is fair. Melee had a shorter development but it had way less content than Ultimate does

 

[StormC]

Honestly after E3 I only expected 3-5 more reveals left anyway. Getting every veteran back was a stated priority, but a lot of people thought Sakurai was "not that serious" or something about not having too many newcomers... for some reason. They only have themselves to blame for hyping themselves up and saying we would be blown away somehow.

I adjusted my expectations a bit after 8.8, thinking we might get a couple more than I initially imagined, but in the worst case scenario where it's literally just Ken and Incineroar, I'm going to be pretty damn pleased with the roster as is. I couldn't dream of a roster this good during the Brawl era. And frankly, in that scenario, I'm sure we'd get more big characters like Geno and Banjo-Kazooie via DLC anyway, so it's all gravy to me.

If the last unique fighter is literally just Incineroar, this roster will still do more for me than the base roster of Smash 4 ever did.

 

[Over9000BPM]

I agree. Her getting beat down by trees while screaming in pain (like Jesus guys) is a lot more cringy than her say breaking into a banquet hall riding a velociraptor in venus swimsuit.

Yeah I legit started to think someone working on that game had... issues. Who’s the real misogynist here? Me, the guy who’d give her an impossible hourglass figure, or the guy that literally wrote it into the script that she gets a tree branch through the kidney every half an hour?

 

[Buzzwole]

My final roster predictions are Incineroar and Ken with Geno as DLC

Going to be optimistic about that

Agreed but I think Geno will be in the base game rather than DLC.
I just don't think there's only one more unique newcomer. I think there are probably two.

 

[ErenJager]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Japanese third party characters again. DLC characters have to be hype-worthy enough for many people to buy them: for DLC you'd want something different than what was featured in the base game. Characters like Cloud and Ryu get a ton of buzz going on around the internet, while first parties will probably stay mostly in circles already interested in Smash.

Communication/Negotiation is much easier between Japanese companies - and as there are still so many interesting Japanese characters remaining, there isn't really a need to look overseas just yet, I think.

If they don't make the base game (which I kind of doubt for most of these characters anyway), I'm guessing characters like Dante, Heihachi, Jill Valentine, Phoenix Wright, Sora, Monster Hunter, Lara Croft (Squeenix now, right?), Erdrick or Ryu Hayabusa have the biggest chance.

Definitely a good possibility of this happening. I'd personally be happy about the outcome.

 

[Galaxyman]

I think Smash Ultimate will get a fair bit more DLC than Smash 4 did. The install base is pretty much guaranteed to be far larger and longer-lasting.

i just wanna play it safe and as pessimistic as possible and say there are no new newcomers or dlc and all there is left to announce is spirit mode, so i can be happy when there is new characters

 

[Iridium]

A small but nice combo, and Link's FS seems to kill earlier than it used to onstage.

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah I legit started to think someone working on that game had... issues. Who’s the real misogynist here? Me, the guy who’d give her an impossible hourglass figure, or the guy that literally wrote it into the script that she gets a tree branch through the kidney every half an hour?

Y'know...it doesn't have to be one or the other...

Honestly after E3 I only expected 3-5 more reveals left anyway. Getting every veteran back was a stated priority, but a lot of people thought Sakurai was "not that serious" or something about not having too many newcomers... for some reason. They only have themselves to blame for hyping themselves up and saying we would be blown away somehow.

I adjusted my expectations a bit after 8.8, thinking we might get a couple more than I initially imagined, but in the worst case scenario where it's literally just Ken and Incineroar, I'm going to be pretty damn pleased with the roster as is. I couldn't dream of a roster this good during the Brawl era. And frankly, in that scenario, I'm sure we'd get more big characters like Geno and Banjo-Kazooie via DLC anyway, so it's all gravy to me.

If the last unique fighter is literally just Incineroar, this roster will still do more for me than the base roster of Smash 4 ever did.

You, my friend, are smarter than myself!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I don’t rely on the box and I shall not

 

[itsaxelol]

It's ok to be disappointed, but I don't think this is fair. Melee had a shorter development but it had way less content than Ultimate does

I don't think it's necessarily unfair. Smash ultimate is bigger, yes, but keep in mind melee was ground up in a year and got all that done.

Smash ultimate is, essentially a reskined smash 4; yet they've been working on it for apparently 3 years (when it drops)

After e3, when we saw the game and they said they started it after the jabroni ballot "winner" and there wouldn't be many new characters, I figured the development time went to a fleshed out single player mode. We'll see.

 

[Galaxyman]

also doom guy would be a nice character too... but that's never gonna happen. too gory

 

[Deleted member]

also doom guy would be a nice character too... but that's never gonna happen. too gory

says hi.

 

[Guynamednelson]

also doom guy would be a nice character too... but that's never gonna happen. too gory

He's been in games without gore, specifically Quake Live and the GBA Doom games.