Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheCJBrine]

Vergeben is debating on whether telling us the SE character or not; he's wanting to wait 'til he hears from more sources.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77000204?page=1
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77000204?page=4

Got this news from the Geno thread. He may not tell us who it is, though, because he doesn't really trust the source who's giving him the name...

 

[Originality]

I know we only got a short glimpse but I think it's enough to extrapolate an opinion. Things aren't always how they appear, but this is Nintendo not a Kojima game what we see is what we get.

Fair enough my dude, if anything it at least looks like it's skipping the multiple mansion mission layout of Dark Moon

 

[KMDP]

I hooe we get more unexpected reveals soon

...

Hmm...

I think it's possible we're being manipulated by Sakurai.

Pre-E3

Heralds the new Smash game, Inkling is the most obvious pick for a Newcomer so they come first​

E3

Sakurai's office decor evokes Donkey Kong with a rope ladder, barrels and a fern.​

All veterans return, puts minds at ease regarding cuts, because there aren't any​

Introduces the new Echo Fighter concept, and are brought into the EF designation, but is not.​

A display that Sakurai is willing to change his mind regarding characters if demand is high enough​

Post-E3

Widespread discussion and arguments start regarding what it means to be an Echo Fighter, arbitrary rules are put in place, as usual​

August 8th

A hype-worthy 3rd party character, using his classic design. Likely did fairly well on the ballot.​

Proves that third party characters can be Echo Fighters​

Sakurai's office decor is fairly reminiscent of Skull Kid​

Show how different Echo Fighters can be.​

Solidifies the notion that characters are being selected from the ballot.​

Post-8/8

Sakurai posts an image on his Twitter that is highly reminiscent of Golden Sun; as Sakurai says himself, he very rarely posts on Twitter.​

People begin discussing characters that would have overlooked in the past (Isaac, Skull Kid), people come to expect more Hardcore-Fan Ballot picks as a result​

Echo discussion becomes more refined, certain characters like Isabelle are considered nigh-guarantees for Echo-hood.​

September 6/13th

A character generally popular with the Casual crowd (who nonetheless probably did well on the ballot) is revealed, everyone was expecting Isaac and/or Skull Kid. Not only that, but Isabelle is considered a unique Newcomer, and not an Echo.​

​

Either Sakurai is playing us, or we're playing ourselves; either way we're getting played hard. I'd like to think that after ~20 years and four Smash games, Sakurai has a decent idea of how fans react to announcements.

The tl;dr of this is that the previous 1st party reveals could have been setting up to make Isabelle more surprising.

...Actually... This gives me a thought...

A Prediction: We'll get Skull Kid and Isaac in the next Smash Direct.

 

[Will]

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE Banjo-Kazooie in the roster! But you know what practically everyone is gonna say when the reveal trailer happens?

"This should've already happened."

Ultimate's DLC REALLY has some shoes to fill after 4's DLC, which is why I'm kind of afraid of post-release content for the game.

Why would you complain that it should've already happened if you're getting it now? If you like the character enough to support it endlessly, wouldn't you like it enough to also pay for it? DLC isn't really forced upon unless you get a Season Pass.

 

[Opossum]

View attachment 164058

Do I need to strap a man and force him to play some good Metroid?

Honestly I've just never been much of a Metroid person. I dig her chitinous look though.

 

[AzureFlame4]

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE Banjo-Kazooie in the roster! But you know what practically everyone is gonna say when the reveal trailer happens?

"This should've already happened."

Ultimate's DLC REALLY has some shoes to fill after 4's DLC, which is why I'm kind of afraid of post-release content for the game.

I mean Roy, Mewtwo and Lucas should have already happened. Roy was literally still heavily based on Marth and people bought it. Not to mention CORRIN.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Vergeben is debating on whether telling us the SE character or not; he's wanting to wait 'til he hears from more sources.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77000204?page=1
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/77000204?page=4

Got this news from the Geno thread. He may not tell us who it is, though, because he doesn't really trust the source who's giving him the name...

There's multiple reasons why he shouldn't say it and for once I agree with him. He should keep it to himself.

 

[Potato_]

Well I figure it's about time so here it is. My FINAL Ultimate roster prediction. 2 months of waiting gives me a pretty good timeframe to be wrong, buuuut I also want to get this in before any potential surprises come up.

Echoes in Green, Newcomers in yellow, bottom row is POTENTIAL dlc picks.

Spoiler: Newcomer Reasonings

Spoiler: Echo Reasonings

Spoiler: DLC Explanation

So yeah that's it. Thanks for reading if you did, and if you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[TheCJBrine]

There's multiple reasons why he shouldn't say it and for once I agree with him. He should keep it to himself.

That's true; all the massive backlash get's tiring and annoying.

but I wanna know if it's Geno plssssssss

 

[Noipoi]

If Geno gets revealed, Star Hill better be involved.

Yes! YES!
YES!

Whenever someone talks about a Geno stage they talk about the forest maze, and yeah I get it that's like his thing, but Star Hill is so much better!
It looks better, it fits his character more, it's got Mastodooms wandering around, it's the superior choice for a Mario RPG stage.

Spoiler

 

[AzureFlame4]

So was Dunkey half right all along and we are getting Tony the tiger from cereal, but it's his cousin Incineroar?

 

[SvartWolf]

uhm... uhm.... looking at my crystal ball, i predict another smash bros direct at october 9th or november 8th...i wonder which date will be? This direct will contain spirits info, 2 newcomers and 2/3 echoes

Maybe i could fabricate a fake leak for october 9th and throw it for a joyride? i thinkwe have enough info for making a very credible leak based on predictions. Now, indpe

Regarding 103 stages theory:
BWD, new poke, Elma, Geno, Dixie, another Final Fantasy Character and Skull kid are elegible, But honestly Dante is starting to see slightly likely now... and Dante would certainly bring a stage. i guess i won't completely dismiss Dante and Isaac yet (or Rythm heaven or another SE frachise or Loyd Irving)

I might be incorrect but I don't think we are getting all 3 of the "remaining 3" (Skull kid, Geno and Isaac) but i will be hopeful and say that we are getting at least one. Sorry Geno fans but it hypes me to think another SE character not named geno might be in. Still, it doesn't matter what i say, Geno is already either in or out.

I found kinda scary that Ken is teased in very similar way to other full newcomers, Even if i actually was hoping and predicting a non echo isabelle. Ken doesn't screams "ultimate" enough for me... even if is the #1 pick of casual and scrubby street fighter players... Regarding this i think i will play the exception card and say that ken was the only echo leaked becasue "reasons". (if we are getting a ryu semiclone i rather have akuma or sakura, Ken had teh adventage over this 2 to be able to work as a Ryu's Echo)

I still think Echo Shadow is very likely and I'm hoping for Echo Impa. If skull kid nor BOTW Champions are in, then echo Impa would certainly be a decent consolation prize. I do think that Skull kid is actually in the game and migrated from the AT category, but I feel is an actual possibility that he may be a boss now.

I do wonder if there is an actual chance of BOTW character if skull kid isn't in? :s (game was in development long enough for not being impossible)

If bethesda relationship keeps improving and we have DLC added, I Actually see some future into a Bethesda rep, Bethesda games seems to do generally pretty well in japan for western games. If dante is in I totally expect DMC 1,2,3 HD remakes and DMC 4 ultimate edition ports to the switch.

I'm really hoping that Spirits mode is like a mix of Melee's adventure mode and a metroidvania. I don't think we are getting cutscenes though... wonder if there will be some kind of story told in other ways...

 

[Deleted member]

This thread has zoomed by since I was last here, so forgive me if I'm posting something that was recently said, but I wanted to just kind of "sum up" the Smash Brothers Ultimate situation at the moment.

This is a long read, so I've spoiler tagged it. TL;DR version: We've probably got roughly 9 newcomers left; Echoes are palette swaps and too drastic a change is the difference between an Echo & a Semi-Clone like Isabelle; And Vergeben's sources are probably right about Incineroar, Ken, and a Square rep.

Spoiler

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I would have Lara Croft over Geno anytime.

Lara Croft vs Samus Aran...woah

 

[Luigi The President]

We just got Isabelle as a brand new character and you guys still have the exact same fan-rosters...??
Like...your views haven't changed a bit?

 

[HeroOfClocktown]

Why are we already speculating about the DLC Newcomers when the base game roster isn't even officially out yet?

Who's to say Nintendo won't just release the game as is, a complete game without the need for DLC?

I personally think the characters we already have are more than enough for the current roster/this version of Smash. Hell, I'm still hyped AF that we get to actually unlock characters starting with the original 8. Wouldn't DLC characters just kill this vibe?
I prefer the method of unlocking characters through challenges & actual experience rather than just buying them. This is why Smash 64, and then Brawl was my favourite for such a long time. The sense of accomplishment.

 

[BeardyBennett]

Just got back from playing SM4SH for like five hours with my buddy, so getting caught up. Direct was packed with stuff, super excited to see Daemon X Machina info that game has me ludicrously excited. I am definitely gonna grab the FF's, Mario Party looks great and I can't wait for a true Mario Party game again.

As for Smash stuff, glad to see Isabelle in and I was just as thrown as I'm sure all you were that she is not an echo. That's awesome and makes me super happy for AC fans. So much for being too much of a pacifist eh?

now for the hype of Isabelle to wear off by morning and us be back to our cranky drought selves

 

[Arcanir]

I don't see why Sakurai wouldn't have Geno in the game.

I mean, he clearly thinks he'd be good for Smash, and if the special-treatment Mii costume doesn't mean he and his team have the rights, what does?

Geno's not playable because he was framed for tax fraud.

 

[Deleted member]

Why would you complain that it should've already happened if you're getting it now? If you like the character enough to support it endlessly, wouldn't you like it enough to also pay for it? DLC isn't really forced upon unless you get a Season Pass.

It becomes a bit of a hit when having to pay for the characters gets involved; I've had a few friends tell me when they saw characters like Lucas or Ryu say "this should've happened when this was released" and were iffy on buying them when Smash 4 came out.

And I wouldn't be surprised this time around if the DLC releases were like $7.99 mainly to maximize profits. Though speaking of Season Passes, no doubt Ultimate will have a Season Pass. After Breath of the Wild and Xenoblade Chronicles 2, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was the case.

 

[Noipoi]

We just got Isabelle as a brand new character and you guys still have the exact same fan-rosters...??
Like...your views haven't changed a bit?

Well how wildly do you expect the predictions to change?
Sure, everyone thought Isabelle would be an echo, but at the end of the day we still predicted Isabelle.
What are you expecting to see?

 

[Luigi The President]

A German fan-poll was just released, what do you all think?

Well how wildly do you expect the predictions to change?
Sure, everyone thought Isabelle would be an echo, but at the end of the day we still predicted Isabelle.
What are you expecting to see?

Why... would they? We’ve been predicting Isabelle for, like, ever.

I suppose I'm just surprised that we still feel newcomers will be Big Boys Only, I guess?
Absolutely just my opinion though. But it feels like we all had these crazy high standards for full-on newcomers.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Why are we already speculating about the DLC Newcomers when the base game roster isn't even officially out yet?

Who's to say Nintendo won't just release the game as is, a complete game without the need for DLC?

I personally think the characters we already have are more than enough for the current roster/this version of Smash. Hell, I'm still hyped AF that we get to actually unlock characters starting with the original 8. Wouldn't DLC characters just kill this vibe?
I prefer the method of unlocking characters through challenges & actual experience rather than just buying them. This is why Smash 64, and then Brawl was my favourite for such a long time. The sense of accomplishment.

There's no denying it. The game is guaranteed to have DLC. Most games nowadays have. Ultimate will be no different.

It's also a way for highly requested characters say like Banjo-Kazooie not making into the Base roster so that way fans and supporters who wanted them will still get in.

 

[Jetsurge]

Guys do we know if the gun on Tails' mii costume is original to Smash? Isabelle uses her firecracker gun from her mii costume in her moveset.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

We just got Isabelle as a brand new character and you guys still have the exact same fan-rosters...??
Like...your views haven't changed a bit?

Why... would they? We’ve been predicting Isabelle for, like, ever.

 

[Honest Slug]

Honestly I thought Smash 4's DLC was pretty underwhelming. Almost half the characters were veterans that we had to pay extra for. Corrin's probably the most disappointing newcomer for me. Bayonetta was a flat ok until I hated her due to her obnoxious moveset. Ryu I could understand being a "hype" character more and Cloud was certainly amazing, but I really don't think Smash Ultimate will need to try that hard to be better than Smash 4's DLC. Just make the price more reasonable and release DLC for a longer period of time. We've already got the veterans out of the way.

 

[Noipoi]

A German fan-poll was just released, what do you all think?

I think in Germany its Waluigi time all the time.
Also, the Germans are Golden Sun fans I see.

 

[Potato_]

We just got Isabelle as a brand new character and you guys still have the exact same fan-rosters...??
Like...your views haven't changed a bit?

I mean, I dropped both Isaac and Skull Kid. Also added in Lloyd and Dante due to stuff just falling in line for them. The other stuff are things I'm just really confident in however, though I could see ONE of either Geno or Banjo being dropped (leaning more toward Geno).

 

[Luigi The President]

I mean, I dropped both Isaac and Skull Kid. Also added in Lloyd and Dante due to stuff just falling in line for them. The other stuff are things I'm just really confident in however, though I could see ONE of either Geno or Banjo being dropped (leaning more toward Geno).

I gotta ask, why would Geno be dropped out of him or Banjo?

 

[Knight Dude]

Let people root for characters everyone...

Sure, but only if THEY LIKE WHAT I LIKE!

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Why are we already speculating about the DLC Newcomers when the base game roster isn't even officially out yet?

Who's to say Nintendo won't just release the game as is, a complete game without the need for DLC?

I personally think the characters we already have are more than enough for the current roster/this version of Smash. Hell, I'm still hyped AF that we get to actually unlock characters starting with the original 8. Wouldn't DLC characters just kill this vibe?
I prefer the method of unlocking characters through challenges & actual experience rather than just buying them. This is why Smash 64, and then Brawl was my favourite for such a long time. The sense of accomplishment.

Because this is about to be the best selling fighting game of all time and nintendo would be insane to not capitalize that. Plus smash 4 had DLC, there's no real reason this wouldn't as well.

 

[Shroob]

Honestly, like I said yesterday:


I'm just glad that Isabelle's reveal gave us some clarity on what to expect the final roster to look like.


Vergeben's characters are 'probably' coming, and Loz18 was a big, fat fraud.

 

[Jetsurge]

We just got Isabelle as a brand new character and you guys still have the exact same fan-rosters...??
Like...your views haven't changed a bit?

Dixie is a semi-clone.

 

[Dee Dude]

Finally back from work.

So Isabelle actually made it in huh?

Nice! I didn’t want at her and was against her inclusion at first but then I warmed and became different so otherwise in a suprising twist, I’m pretty glad she’s playable now.

Congratulations Isabelle supporters!

Thank god she isn’t a Villager Echo everyone expected her to be.
Though from the looks of her moves, she seems to be a Semi-clone?

 

[AzureFlame4]

We just got Isabelle as a brand new character and you guys still have the exact same fan-rosters...??
Like...your views haven't changed a bit?

Honestly, I believe in Elma and Tails a lot more now. I'm having my doubts on Isaac and Geno

 

[Deleted member]

I'd argue that argument 2 of this statement directly contradicts argument 1. Saying FE doesn't need more characters goes off of the assumption that said characters would use up valuable development time that could've been allocated elsewhere. An Echo barely consumes said time and should thus be more welcomed based on that argument. Black Knight would be a great Echo and a long-requested addition. And even if he were in, Fire Emblem would still have only 4 unique fighters, less than or tied with many of the major series.

People need to stop looking at "number of reps" as the be-all end-all of Smash inclusion. Fire Emblem has more characters than any series besides Pokemon, and has 15 games with over 40 characters per game. 8 isn't a lot in that perspective, especially when 1 is a semi-clone and 3 are Echo Fighters.

Well then allow me to rephrase that statement. I don't wish for the Black Knight because, overall, I do not care for Fire Emblem. I think Fire Emblem has plenty decent representation in Smash. Sure, Echos don't take much effort, but being brutally honest, I'd much rather that tiny little development time go to someone that I would actually care about. Not trying to come off as a jerk or anything, I'm just saying I'm not that hyped about Fire Emblem characters.

 

[Pakky]

I have no doubts about the Switch moving forward.

I had some and they have vanished.

Also since one of the frontrunners for being an 'echo' is her own character. I think that sort of thought processing might need re-evaluation

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

A German fan-poll was just released, what do you all think?






I suppose I'm just surprised that we still feel newcomers will be Big Boys Only, I guess?
Absolutely just my opinion though. But it feels like we all had these crazy high standards for full-on newcomers.

I mean Inceneroar and Skull Kid aren’t even Big Boys. The only two of those that have been widely speculated, that are left, are Isaac and Geno. And for good reason. They’re the two most popular characters right now. If anyone is getting in because of popularity it’s one of those two, or both. Keep in mind that before this we got King K. Rool, Ridley, AND Simon. 3 heavily requested characters. Isabelle was heavily requested as well, so, she could be considered more of a Big bo-er Girl than Skull Kid and Inceneroar. What does this reveal really change?

 

[Luigi The President]

Honestly, I believe in Elma and Tails a lot more now. I'm having my doubts on Isaac and Geno

Where's this jump in Elma come from?
Why we doubting Isaac and Geno?
My heart. Granted I like Elma. And I don't care for Isaac. And Tails is awesome. So I guess it's more "oh my Geno-liking heart"

I mean Inceneroar and Skull Kid aren’t even Big Boys. The only two of those that have been widely speculated, that are left, are Isaac and Geno. And for good reason. They’re the two most popular characters right now. If anyone is getting in because of popularity it’s one of those two, or both. Keep in mind that before this we got King K. Rool, Ridley, AND Simon. 3 heavily requested characters. Isabelle was heavily requested as well, so, she could be considered more of a Big bo-er Girl than Skull Kid and Inceneroar. What does this reveal really change?

I think Skull Kid was definitely a Big Boy back in the earlier days of Smash online.
It's just my opinion, I suppose. Something just feels different to me. But I guess it shouldn't really change much.

 

[ZephyrZ]

So I decided I'm not going to finish Dillon's Dead Heat Breakers. I thought spending only a single day in each area would make it less repetitive, but between that and the abundance of money avaible, it just made strategic planning and goal setting waaaay less important then in The Last Ranger. Not to mention all the tedium the slow proccess of hiring gunners and selling items brings. It has some things going for it but ultimately I'd say it's one step forward and two steps backwards for the series. Still a Dillon supporter though and wouldn't mind if he's based off his DGB appearance as DLC, since his redesign is still cool and his High Jump Claw Attack is begging to be a recovery move.

Anyway, I've moved onto Diddy's Kong Quest. It's challenging, which I don't mind, but that save system is going to be a problem. I might just swallow my pride and use save states for this one. I know I was hard on its graphics, but now that I'm playing it for real it feels like a hit or miss depending on the stage. Brighter stages look good while darker ones look...eh. The character models still don't look good to me.

 

[Deleted member]

A German fan-poll was just released, what do you all think?

Rex and Banjo-Kazooie in top 5. Nice. As they should be.

Though, I suppose Waluigi being in second is a nice last meme before they get banned in the EU.