Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[pupNapoleon]

We've reached peak Smash fanbase bubble when Pokemon isn't the literal biggest videogame franchise in the world.

It is the biggest media franchise in history.

 

[Q-Long]

I did not realize how much Pokemon sold as well. I know it was large, but did not know it sold more than Star Wars.

Zone of The Enders was packaged with a demo of Metal Gear Solid 2 which aided in its sales.

Man... I'm just thinking now. Imagine a F-Zero sequel or another franchise revival being packaged with a demo of Gen 8 Pokemon. That would definitely help boost sales. Nintendo should do that. Its the best time for it, Metroid and Star Fox are back. All of these properties getting life breathed into them (like Shenmue 3, Devil May Cry 5, Streets of Rage 4, Samurai Shodown, Megaman 11, etc.).

They should definitely do a demo thing.

 

[kylexv]

Pokemon Let's Go will definitely sell well.

Doesn't make it a good game.

Case in point: the Minions movie.
Pretty terrible movie. Still grossed over a billion dollars worldwide and is the third highest grossing animated film of all time.

People will buy Let's Go, especially due to Pokemon Go compatibility I feel.

 

[MrSmashFour]

I don't know if the Direct will really hold much we'll care about at this point. Sakurai had never said anything to begin with and if there was some Smash info, then I feel he would have at least tweeted by now.

We know of Civilization 6, a Yoshi Game, and FFXV Pocket whatever. We also know that the direct was supposed to contain 3DS content information. We already know that this will be a Switch exclusive game, so depending on the amount of 3DS stuff revealed; be it DLC to older stuff, coming DLC, or new games, that may be the entirety of the Direct.

People keep pining for the Direct as if its a certainty that Smash info was coming in it, but that was never the case. There have been times in the past where general directs held Smash info, but there was also a larger gap between Announcement of the game and its intended release date. This game was hinted at in March of this year and it wasn't until June, 6 months til release, that it was finally confirmed to be a new game rather than a port. Then our next bit of info didn't come until August; only 4 months before release! At this point, since Sakurai had said all characters will be revealed before release, I think there's a fair possibility that every info dump for this game will come from Smash-only Directs, so that the most time, info, and focus can be given to it due to the impending release date.

Some of you are starving for info, demanding this general Direct, but we may not get actual info until next week.

Don't worry about it. There's Smash info. The blog didn't update the night the Direct was supposed to happen because they obviously had to pull a character trailer. It's silly to think the Direct won't have Smash info - it's this year's system-seller along with Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

The only "big titles" from that list are Pokemon and Smash - they'll be carrying the holiday like Odyssey was last year. But yeah, it's definitely a better holiday than last year.

I would argue Civilization is - not just as - but a bit close to big as Smash and Pokemon. The reaction I've seen online across the board when it leaked out that Civilization VI is coming to the Switch was insane. People went wild from the fact that now you practically can take Gandhi everywhere. Even PC users I've seen will no doubt buy this on the Switch.

I'm looking at this with the most broadest perspective possible, and while Pokemon and Smash are no doubt the biggest hitters, you have to at least recognize the other big hitters like Diablo III and Civilization that're gonna sell consoles, too.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

It is the biggest media franchise in history.

That's probably why we get a Pokemon Newcomer Every Smash Game. (And I don't see this Game being any different. it will probably be the only Franchise to have a newcomer in every Smash game) It's probably Mandatory By the Pokemon Company or something like that... That's why I'm 98% sure a new Pokemon is a lock for this game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So question: Who do you think is the most competitively underrated character for Smash, for any game.
Personally I think , , and are super underrated. Melee Yoshi and Pikachu, even though people have acknowledged how good they can be, have barely any players aside from the big boys (Axe and Amsa), and as such severely lack the tournament results they could have, esp because their main players aren't the best in the world like ZeRo was for Diddy Kong.

In the case of Duck Hunt, I think that the Japanese playerbase overall has a generally better understanding of the tier list, and Duck Hunt is very popular in Japan, at least in comparison to America. He's many tiers higher in every Japanese tier list in comparison to the "official" Smash 4 tier list we have. Duck Hunt didn't get into EVO top 8 for no reason.

Tell me about the Japanese Tier list of Smash 4 please? Can't find one anywhere.

Speaking of Melee, I do agree with both Pikachu and Yoshi. Both heavily underrated, especially seeing as what enormous growth Young Link made in recent years. I also still think Melee Mario should be ranked here, as he's still a very good character but way overlooked by Dr.Mario instead.

As for Brawl? I think lots have to do with certain characters being able to chain grab others, and them not making a chance because of it. The most terrible case; vs ... Which sucks, cause Brawl DK was honestly my favorite incarnation of DK. So I say here, both Brawl DK, and Brawl Fox. Because both are mainly held back by chain grabs, and it's easy to counterpick a character that could help against that.

Smash 4? Here things are a bit more iffy but still... I say people underestimate quite a few characters. Mainly Greninja , and also Ike , possibly Lucario as well . All have had their top players quit I recall, or just aren't played for other strange reasons.

 

[Kuon]

Sounds more like Bayonetta?

Is it Bayonetta? I really don't know. I wasn't "in the loop" with Smash 4 stuff, so I don't really know how people feel about each character

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

You've played it?

Don't get me wrong, it's not a hardcore Pokemon game like usual but saying it's a bad game because of that is jumping to conclusions before even really playing the game. Coliseum and XD weren't hardcore Pokemon games either but they were fun as hell.

I mean

- Only limiting the game to the 151 Kanto Pokemon, with a single exception in the form of a new Pokemom (which will almost certainly be another Eeveelution, I can feel it)
- No trading
- No breeding
- Excessive handholding
- No wild encounters
- The fact that you can't access a gym without having a Pokemon that counters that gym's type, which goes against the entire idea of Pokemon

I don't play Pokemon like, at all, but this feels like a step backward in almost every way possible, even if it is a Gen I remake. In spite of that, I'm sure the game will do pretty well sales-wise since there are some... dedicated fans to put it as lightly as possible.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Case in point: the Minions movie.
Pretty terrible movie. Still grossed over a billion dollars worldwide and is the third highest grossing animated film of all time.

People will buy Let's Go, especially due to Pokemon Go compatibility I feel.

I actually laughed at a background gag in that movie.
They were in the 60’s and there was a big campaign billboard in the background that said “NIXON: A Name You Can Trust”.

That gave me a little chuckle.

Also that movie could’ve been a lot worse in general.

 

[kylexv]

Thing is, Raito was able to bring to top 8 at EVO yet he's still in the bottom half of the tier list.

I actually laughed at a background gag in that movie.
They were in the 60’s and there was a big campaign billboard in the background that said “NIXON: A Name You Can Trust”.

That gave me a little chuckle.

Also that movie could’ve been a lot worse in general.

Yeah I remember that. They also called one of the minions "a bald, jaundiced child" at one point. Other than those two moments, the movie was really forgettable.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

You've played it?

Don't get me wrong, it's not a hardcore Pokemon game like usual but saying it's a bad game because of that is jumping to conclusions before even really playing the game. Coliseum and XD weren't hardcore Pokemon games either but they were fun as hell.

I don't expect it to be fun for us Pokémon veterans, but we're not the target audience anyways, it's for the absolute newcomers not just to Pokémon, but to console gaming in general. Its one job is to literally convert mobile gamers to core Nintendo fans, and I'm expecting it to do a damn good job at it.

Of course that means I'm not going to be buying it, but I hope it means that they'll chill with all the handholding and tutorials for the next core game and catter it more towards us veterans, as now they have a completely separate title for all that jazz.

 

[Cosmic77]

That's probably why we get a Pokemon Newcomer Every Smash Game. (And I don't see this Game being any different. it will probably be the only Franchise to have a newcomer in every Smash game) It's probably Mandatory By the Pokemon Company or something like that... That's why I'm 98% sure a new Pokemon is a lock for this game.

Game Freak is actually pretty laid back with Smash based off Sakurai's comments about choosing Greninja.

If I had to take a guess, Sakurai probably includes a new Pokemon character with each installment because there's so much potential to choose from. It's like a treasure trove of unique characters with each new generation of Pokemon. Obviously the popularity of the franchise helps justify his decisions, but I think we'd still be getting Pokemon newcomers even if it wasn't insanely popular.

 

[Q-Long]

Now I'm curious as to what the sales of every franchise in Smash is.

I wonder what the lowest is. Maybe Ice Climbers?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

So question: Who do you think is the most competitively underrated character for Smash, for any game.
Personally I think , , and are super underrated. Melee Yoshi and Pikachu, even though people have acknowledged how good they can be, have barely any players aside from the big boys (Axe and Amsa), and as such severely lack the tournament results they could have, esp because their main players aren't the best in the world like ZeRo was for Diddy Kong.

In the case of Duck Hunt, I think that the Japanese playerbase overall has a generally better understanding of the tier list, and Duck Hunt is very popular in Japan, at least in comparison to America. He's many tiers higher in every Japanese tier list in comparison to the "official" Smash 4 tier list we have. Duck Hunt didn't get into EVO top 8 for no reason.

Smash 64 I guess would be

Melee would have to be . I don't see those two getting attention often for... obvious reasons.

Brawl? Probably . Not all that familiar with the competitive scene (or lack thereof) there though so can't say for sure.

Smash 4?

 

[MSmariosonic]

So...
View attachment 163109

for smash?

Looking at how many blonde dudes there are in the smash roster I can easily see a reason as to why Rufus would show up

 

[Kuon]

So that "leak" talking about the Direct being announced in a few hours, did that turn out to be fake? I haven't heard anything about it coming true

 

[Soulsaint]

I don't know if anyone saw or cares, but a special edition Lets Go! Switch was anounced. So thats one less thing for the direct

 

[Rie Sonomura]

When you’re so bored you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel for leaks.

OP is in Katakana which for some reason isn’t showing on mobile but a commenter said they are, in order (* denotes Japanese name used, like Isaac’s Japanese name is Robin):
Geno, Skull Kid, Bandana Waddle Dee, Incineroar*, Black Shadow, Soren*, Shadow, Isabelle*, Elma, Ken, Isaac*, Lloyd, Chorus Kids*, and a “Fighter Hayabusa” whom I can only assume is Ryu Hayabusa.

Hey, don’t look at me like that, it’s SOMETHING in the face of this drought...!

 

[staindgrey]

Those aren’t exactly what I’d call “big games”

Not on the level of a zelda, smash, or mario anyway. If the let’s go games were actual core pkmn games then yeah I could see it, but really smash is the only big unreleased 2018 title. The only other thing that arguably could be considered big would be the xenoblade2 dlc.

I mean, you may not have been excited about Octopath Traveler, but it sold over a million units in less than a month and dominated the month it released. https://www.usgamer.net/articles/ni...-thanks-to-switch-and-octopath-traveler-sales This is actually better than XC2 performed in its first month.

The thing is, Nintendo can't release a Mario/Zelda/Pokemon/Smash every single year. The Switch's launch year benefited from the Wii U being prematurely axed, since BotW would likely have been released a year earlier on the Wii U if the Switch weren't a thing. But Nintendo has a lot of properties that sell, including Kirby, Yoshi, Pokemon spinoffs and every Mario Kart/Party/Sports spinoff. We may not consider those "big games", but they keep the money rolling for Nintendo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

When you’re so bored you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel for leaks.

OP is in Katakana which for some reason isn’t showing on mobile but a commenter said they are, in order (* denotes Japanese name used, like Isaac’s Japanese name is Robin):
Geno, Skull Kid, Bandana Waddle Dee, Incineroar*, Black Shadow, Soren*, Shadow, Isabelle*, Elma, Ken, Isaac*, Lloyd, Chorus Kids*, and a “Fighter Hayabusa” whom I can only assume is Ryu Hayabusa.

Hey, don’t look at me like that, it’s SOMETHING in the face of this drought...!

If it doesn't include Isaac, Impa and Dixie, it's a fake. We all know that by this point don't we?

*sigh* "Leak" time again I guess....

I don't think we're gonna wait longer than another week honestly... but still people, try to show some more patience. For all we know, there won't even be Smash reveals. In fact, am gonna laugh my ass off if there isn't one.

 

[IronTed]

Are they official?

I believe so.




And lol at people not putting Pokemon in the same tier as something like Odyssey. Let's Go (or any Pokemon game) will likely not end up as the Switch's best selling game, but cumulative mainline Pokémon sales on Switch will crush every other Nintendo IP (again speaking cumatively) by a mile, and it is a huge hardware mover as well.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Now I'm curious as to what the sales of every franchise in Smash is.

I wonder what the lowest is. Maybe Ice Climbers?

In terms of Franchises in Smash, This is the top 10 (according to this...)
1. Pokemon
2. Mario
3. PAC-MAN
4. Wii
5. Street Fighter
6. Final Fantasy
7. Sonic the Hedgehog
8. The Legend Of Zelda
9. Metal Gear
10. Super Smash Bros

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If it doesn't include Isaac, Impa and Dixie, it's a fake. We all know that by this point don't we?

*sigh* "Leak" time again I guess....

I don't think we're gonna wait longer than another week honestly... but still people, try to show some more patience. For all we know, there won't even be Smash reveals. In fact, am gonna laugh my *** off if there isn't one.

To be fair this one DID have Isaac (named Robin in the OP because Japanese name) but yeah it was all I could find leaks wise lately

Even the leak well is drying up, the horror!

 

[Soulsaint]

Has anyone considered they might just push it way back to have more things to anounce?

 

[Deleted member]

When you’re so bored you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel for leaks.

OP is in Katakana which for some reason isn’t showing on mobile but a commenter said they are, in order (* denotes Japanese name used, like Isaac’s Japanese name is Robin):
Geno, Skull Kid, Bandana Waddle Dee, Incineroar*, Black Shadow, Soren*, Shadow, Isabelle*, Elma, Ken, Isaac*, Lloyd, Chorus Kids*, and a “Fighter Hayabusa” whom I can only assume is Ryu Hayabusa.

Hey, don’t look at me like that, it’s SOMETHING in the face of this drought...!

Fighter Hayabusa is a wrestler from the NES Pro Wrestling game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Has anyone considered they might just push it way back to have more things to anounce?

Think the running time of the direct may be longer as a result too? I think the original one was 35 or so minutes before the...delay.

Fighter Hayabusa is a wrestler from the NES Pro Wrestling game.

I guess that would be the retro rep then...?

 

[IronTed]

The lowest would probably be Mother, sales never broke a million as far as we know.

 

[staindgrey]

Now I'm curious as to what the sales of every franchise in Smash is.

I wonder what the lowest is. Maybe Ice Climbers?

I mean, it kind of has to be. They've only ever had one game, originally made in 1985, that then got re-released a few times. And unlike Duck Hunt, it didn't benefit from being bundled with the console itself. Then they didn't get a Smash-bump for a new game like Pit did.

 

[pupNapoleon]

If anyone else is interested in talking about the highest grossing media franchises of all time, I made a link for the thread.
It really may impact what you consider "chances" for this game. Here is the thread!

For me: Tomb Raider, Angry Birds, Minecraft, Mortal Kombat, Assassin's Creed, Dragon Quest, Warcraft, Yokai-Watch, Skylanders, and Resident Evil, are all now on my highly likely list in some form or another. Well, to be fair, most were already up there, but some were just given a huge boost in my eyes.

 

[Q-Long]

In terms of Franchises in Smash, This is the top 10 (according to this...)
1. Pokemon
2. Mario
3. PAC-MAN
4. Wii
5. Street Fighter
6. Final Fantasy
7. Sonic the Hedgehog
8. The Legend Of Zelda
9. Metal Gear
10. Super Smash Bros

Its awesome how high SF is

That being said I'm more curious about the low end. Like sales of Punchout or Ice Climber

 

[Soulsaint]

Think the running time of the direct may be longer as a result too? I think the original one was 35 or so minutes before the...delay.


I guess that would be the retro rep then...?

A lot of yhings are leaked or anounced already, so they might just do a quick overview of those, and introduce different things leaving at similar length

 

[Deleted member]

Also, someone mentioned Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles being announced? Yeah, that was announced at Sony's Pre-TGS event. Even if the Direct happened on the 6th, the official Final Fantasy Twitter account would've announced it anyways. This isn't "another thing the Direct lost."

I'm gonna be honest here about "Direct Leaks", even if one leak happens, they still won't get as much traction as them being officially announced. Even if Civilization VI got prematurely announced, when the Direct happens, way more people will know. And with how rapid-fire Directs are nowadays, I don't think the Direct at all is gonna be hurt by leaks or the delay at all, as we have more down the line. Besides, not that many games have been leaked in the first place.

And at the end of the day, people are still gonna watch it and be hype then complain about when the next Direct is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Cosmic77]

Has anyone considered they might just push it way back to have more things to anounce?

Not everything that gets revealed within the days following the Direct was intended to be included in it. You just can't assume that we already know most of the content through leaks.

Be patient. The Direct will air soon enough. We don't need to freak out everytime Nintendo breathes.

 

[BlueMagician]

Tell me about the Japanese Tier list of Smash 4 please? Can't find one anywhere.

I'm not sure what they're talking about either, the Japanese don't really do tier lists, like there's no real agreed upon source for character rankings.

 

[staindgrey]

Has anyone considered they might just push it way back to have more things to anounce?

Doubtful. These things are meticulously planned, and they likely had release dates centered around their direct's announcement. Pushing back the direct considerably would also push back release dates significantly, and bump them into things that were planned to be released later.

More than likely, they're just waiting one full week, releasing it on Wednesday again, and editing the direct to fix dates, take out some third party surprises that already announced themselves due to the delay, and putting in a message about the delay itself.

 

[Majora's Visage]

You've played it?

Don't get me wrong, it's not a hardcore Pokemon game like usual but saying it's a bad game because of that is jumping to conclusions before even really playing the game. Coliseum and XD weren't hardcore Pokemon games either but they were fun as hell.

I'll probably wait for Gen8 next holiday season myself.

 

[IronTed]

Punch Out sold 3.02 million on the NES, Ice Climber sold 1.5 million. For the era those were huge numbers.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I'm assuming something like Xenoblade, F-Zero, or Earthbound probably sold the least

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

No game that names a move "Splishy Splash" isn't specifically made for babies