Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Dukeofdeath5]

Ken, Shadow and Isabelle would make 3 Echoes, so there's that, though I can't think of a 4th Echo I'm dying for outside of Dixie right now.


If Microsoft is getting Minecraft stuff, I'd say Banjo, with the Echoes taking the last slot.

Black Shadow or Black Knight are also popular echo picks

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So was anything about a direct announced?

Still only a rumor at this point. There's an supposed Nintendo Direct on Thursday and then Smash Direct next week on the 12th.

 

[MojoRobo]

Perfect, but now that we're on the topic of this chart, I've never thought about it before but, why isn't there a "buys the kids the mcdonalds" option?

A square isn't as fun as a triangle.

 

[Noipoi]

Perfect, but now that we're on the topic of this chart, I've never thought about it before but, why isn't there a "buys the kids the mcdonalds" option?

It comes from a John Mulaney stand up bit where he talks about how his dad ignored him and his friends begging for Mcdonalds by only getting a coffee for himself, just to be a prick.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Did we seriously just call Rosalina and Olimar honor bound here when Olimar sends swarms of his crew to maul anyone who challenges him and Rosalina literally sits back and sacrifices her own children for her victory? Don't get me wrong; I'm a Rosalina main, and I understand fully that a Luma in the handful of seconds it will ever know in this world can know no greater honor than dying in the service of Rosalina much like a Yoshi knows no greater moment of triumph than when it careens into a bottomless pit as Mario leaps to safety. I'm just saying that on the "fights clean" and "fights dirty" scale I never really put myself or my main anywhere near the "fights clean" side of things...

 

[Shroob]

Still only a rumor at this point. There's an supposed Nintendo Direct on Thursday and then Smash Direct next week on the 12th.

Pardon moi?

 

[hazza5557]

Wasn’t there something said about the music update on the blog that hinted towards a Direct?

 

[Zinith]

Alright, here's the revised alignment chart.
View attachment 161953

Makes sense that Yoshi is top-tier on feeding kids McDonalds. Since he has no restraints on appetite, he'd pamper the HELL out of the Mario babies without realizing they're NOT YOSHIS!!! That's something to think about when playing the Yoshi's Island games...

 

[mynameisBlade]

I am going to use possible Echoes as well.

Medusa
Yarn Yoshi
Ninten
Alph
Marshall
Elma
Isaac
Skull Kid
Banjo & Kazooie
Lloyd Irving
Andy
Dixie Kong
Excitebike

 

[Enchess]

Here's a new silly idea of a character thread:

Try spelling your username with the first letter of potential newcomers, like the following:

Felix
Isaac
Neku Sakuraba
Agnès Oblige
Lin Lee Koo

Sylux
Malos
Amaterasu
Shantae
Henry Cooldown

Geno
Anthony Higgs
Mike Jones
Elma
Rex

Elma
Ninten
Chorus KidS
HarmoKnight
Elite Beat Agents
Saki Amamiya
Sae Kurosawa (I'm gonna work in an Amakura twin somehow)

Edit:
Just to preempt any "who?" that might come up when I'm asleep...

Spoiler: Sae Kurosawa

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Pardon moi?

Hmmm entirely thought maybe both were separate. Pardon me but I just recently gotten back into the Nintendo Phase.

 

[AzureFlame4]

So, something I wanted to point out.

Smash 64 had 12 characters.

Melee had 14 newcomers with 0 cuts, obviously.

Brawl had 18 newcomers and 5 cuts. Most of which were clones and the last being the controversial Mewtwo. However, Toon Link can be considered as the replacement for Young Link. Food for thought.

Smash For had 15 base newcomers, 17 if you count all 3 Mii's, or 15 again if you don't include Dark Pit and Lucina. and 6 base cuts. Lucas was brought back through DLC alongside 4 more newcomers bringing that total to 21. And the return of Mewtwo and Roy, which wont be included here.

So, what am I trying to say here? Well, we're all expecting around 3ish more newcomers right? Well, what of we're low balling it? Like, take the echoes, we've gotten Richter, Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus. Those all probably took the work of 1 character, let's just say that for reference purposes for now. And we've gotten Inkling, Ridley, K. Rool, and Simon, 4. So, those 4 plus the echoes makes 5. Retroactively speaking the minimum amount of newcomers we have gotten in a Smash game is 12 characters. That's the OG 12. Ok, but let's say that don't count. 14 newcomers is the minimum, but let's limit that down to just unique characters. That means we got 9 as our minimum. HOWEVER, let's take in the fact that many of the newer characters had to just be simply ported over with a few frame tweaks. That means that the entirety of the Smash 4 newcomers and DLC took less work than the rest of the cast. 28 characters didnt take much work at all. Wolf, Snake, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Pichu, and Young Link were the cut veterans that return this game so they probably took quite a bit. So 8 characters subtracted from that 28, then 5 more characters subtracted for the current newcomers and echoes added in this game. So, that comes out to 15. Ok but let's say licensing was kind of difficult let's make that number 13. 13 characters... BUT HANG ON! Let's say that the new quality of life changes count towards bringing that total character count down. Let's say to 10. I think 10 is the number. Perfectly sitting between the og's 12 and Melee's unique 8. I think we're getting 6 more newcomers. I think echoes CAN be included in that as well so if there's like 8 more echoes then say 4 more characters and etc.

SO, after all that ****. We have 6 potential characters. Who are they? Well...

Inceneroar or Another Gen 7 - Kind of obvious. Leaks leaks leaks. Blah blah blah.

Skull Kid - Long Overdue Zelda Newcomer. Pretty popular. Leaks leaks leaks. Blah blah blah.

Isaac - Most popular character after K. Rool. Possibly tied with Geno. Leaks lea- you get the idea

Geno - Most popular character after(?) Isaac. Possibly tied with Isaac. Leaks.

WHO ARE THE OTHER TWO? Or one if you count the echoes as a 5th newcomer.

Bandanna Dee and Paper Mario.

Also I think it's just safe to lowball it to not get disappointed. Plus 3 months to reveal more than 4 characters sounds ridiculous, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Shroob]

I still like the idea of Echoes being = to the amount of newcomers we're getting, as weird as that is.


We're at 4 unique, and 4 new as is, and if we take Vergeben into account, we're in line for 2 more uniques, and 2 more echoes.



I just like even numbers is all.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So, something I wanted to point out.

Smash 64 had 12 characters.

Melee had 14 newcomers with 0 cuts, obviously.

Brawl had 18 newcomers and 5 cuts. Most of which were clones and the last being the controversial Mewtwo. However, Toon Link can be considered as the replacement for Young Link. Food for thought.

Smash For had 15 base newcomers, 17 if you count all 3 Mii's, or 15 again if you don't include Dark Pit and Lucina. and 6 base cuts. Lucas was brought back through DLC alongside 4 more newcomers bringing that total to 21. And the return of Mewtwo and Roy, which wont be included here.

So, what am I trying to say here? Well, we're all expecting around 3ish more newcomers right? Well, what of we're low balling it? Like, take the echoes, we've gotten Richter, Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus. Those all probably took the work of 1 character, let's just say that for reference purposes for now. And we've gotten Inkling, Ridley, K. Rool, and Simon, 4. So, those 4 plus the echoes makes 5. Retroactively speaking the minimum amount of newcomers we have gotten in a Smash game is 12 characters. That's the OG 12. Ok, but let's say that don't count. 14 newcomers is the minimum, but let's limit that down to just unique characters. That means we got 9 as our minimum. HOWEVER, let's take in the fact that many of the newer characters had to just be simply ported over with a few frame tweaks. That means that the entirety of the Smash 4 newcomers and DLC took less work than the rest of the cast. 28 characters didnt take much work at all. Wolf, Snake, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Pichu, and Young Link were the cut veterans that return this game so they probably took quite a bit. So 8 characters subtracted from that 28, then 5 more characters subtracted for the current newcomers and echoes added in this game. So, that comes out to 15. Ok but let's say licensing was kind of difficult let's make that number 13. 13 characters... BUT HANG ON! Let's say that the new quality of life changes count towards bringing that total character count down. Let's say to 10. I think 10 is the number. Perfectly sitting between the og's 12 and Melee's unique 8. I think we're getting 6 more newcomers. I think echoes CAN be included in that as well so if there's like 8 more echoes then say 4 more characters and etc.

SO, after all that ****. We have 6 potential characters. Who are they? Well...

Inceneroar or Another Gen 7 - Kind of obvious. Leaks leaks leaks. Blah blah blah.

Skull Kid - Long Overdue Zelda Newcomer. Pretty popular. Leaks leaks leaks. Blah blah blah.

Isaac - Most popular character after K. Rool. Possibly tied with Geno. Leaks lea- you get the idea

Geno - Most popular character after(?) Isaac. Possibly tied with Isaac. Leaks.

WHO ARE THE OTHER TWO? Or one if you count the echoes as a 5th newcomer.

You're totally wrong in equating three echoes to the work of one newcomer. First of all, when Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit (three echoes) were added to Smash 4, it was under the condition that they would not significantly increase man hours, at all.

Echo fighters aren't even on the level of Melee clones. They are almost completely identical to the fighters they are based on. Sure, there are other thingss to take into consideration besides moves, but you could probably have three more and still not have enough hours to equate to a full newcomer.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

So, something I wanted to point out.



WHO ARE THE OTHER TWO? Or one if you count the echoes as a 5th newcomer.

Dr.Eggman and Arle along with Shadow (Sonic Echo) and Amitie (Arle Echo)

 

[MojoRobo]

Did we seriously just call Rosalina and Olimar honor bound here when Olimar sends swarms of his crew to maul anyone who challenges him and Rosalina literally sits back and sacrifices her own children for her victory? Don't get me wrong; I'm a Rosalina main, and I understand fully that a Luma in the handful of seconds it will ever know in this world can know no greater honor than dying in the service of Rosalina much like a Yoshi knows no greater moment of triumph than when it careens into a bottomless pit as Mario leaps to safety. I'm just saying that on the "fights clean" and "fights dirty" scale I never really put myself or my main anywhere near the "fights clean" side of things...

>implying olimar doesn't go in with his pikmin to punch the **** out of anyone alongside them
Rosa is a mother though, to be fair. She likely would use some underhanded tactics.

 

[Noipoi]

Makes sense that Yoshi is top-tier on feeding kids McDonalds. Since he has no restraints on appetite, he'd pamper the HELL out of the Mario babies without realizing they're NOT YOSHIS!!! That's something to think about when playing the Yoshi's Island games...

Well, those in the top tier are the one who'd be screaming for McDonalds.
But honestly Yoshi would beg for it and then share some with the kids. If he didn't eat it already.

 

[Jim_Puff]

Just checking in, any hot new Smash leaks out there? A boy needs his leaks no matter how fake they are

 

[Zinith]

Well, those in the top tier are the one who'd be screaming for McDonalds.
But honestly Yoshi would beg for it and then share some with the kids. If he didn't eat it already.

Let's be honest, the moment the food reaches his hands, it's gone.

 

[Shroob]

As for the next Direct, I feel like the Gen7 Pokemon, if we're getting one, is probably the safest character choice to guess to be revealed.


We've yet to receive new characters outside of a Direct, and I feel like the next time we'll get a big 'dump' of Smash news will be in the next Smash-centric Direct.


Incineroar/whoever after they discuss Let's Go just seems logical.



Though, if we're getting 2 actual newcomers, I legit don't know who they'd end on.


SO many of these 'insiders' have been hinting Isaac, and I'd love to believe, but I have no reason to do so.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

If it makes you feel better, I'd put her 2nd tier down from "Zinith tier" (you can probably guess who occupies that spot).

I kinda imagine your list only having two tiers: "Yoshi" and "Not Yoshi".

 

[AzureFlame4]

Apollo Justice
Zelgius
Unova Pokemon Trainer
Roxas
Elma
Freddi Fish
Leon Kennedy
Ayumi Tachibana
Mario, paper edition
Eggman
4 Links

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

So, something I wanted to point out.

Smash 64 had 12 characters.

Melee had 14 newcomers with 0 cuts, obviously.

Brawl had 18 newcomers and 5 cuts. Most of which were clones and the last being the controversial Mewtwo. However, Toon Link can be considered as the replacement for Young Link. Food for thought.

Smash For had 15 base newcomers, 17 if you count all 3 Mii's, or 15 again if you don't include Dark Pit and Lucina. and 6 base cuts. Lucas was brought back through DLC alongside 4 more newcomers bringing that total to 21. And the return of Mewtwo and Roy, which wont be included here.

So, what am I trying to say here? Well, we're all expecting around 3ish more newcomers right? Well, what of we're low balling it? Like, take the echoes, we've gotten Richter, Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus. Those all probably took the work of 1 character, let's just say that for reference purposes for now. And we've gotten Inkling, Ridley, K. Rool, and Simon, 4. So, those 4 plus the echoes makes 5. Retroactively speaking the minimum amount of newcomers we have gotten in a Smash game is 12 characters. That's the OG 12. Ok, but let's say that don't count. 14 newcomers is the minimum, but let's limit that down to just unique characters. That means we got 9 as our minimum. HOWEVER, let's take in the fact that many of the newer characters had to just be simply ported over with a few frame tweaks. That means that the entirety of the Smash 4 newcomers and DLC took less work than the rest of the cast. 28 characters didnt take much work at all. Wolf, Snake, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Pichu, and Young Link were the cut veterans that return this game so they probably took quite a bit. So 8 characters subtracted from that 28, then 5 more characters subtracted for the current newcomers and echoes added in this game. So, that comes out to 15. Ok but let's say licensing was kind of difficult let's make that number 13. 13 characters... BUT HANG ON! Let's say that the new quality of life changes count towards bringing that total character count down. Let's say to 10. I think 10 is the number. Perfectly sitting between the og's 12 and Melee's unique 8. I think we're getting 6 more newcomers. I think echoes CAN be included in that as well so if there's like 8 more echoes then say 4 more characters and etc.

SO, after all that ****. We have 6 potential characters. Who are they? Well...

Inceneroar or Another Gen 7 - Kind of obvious. Leaks leaks leaks. Blah blah blah.

Skull Kid - Long Overdue Zelda Newcomer. Pretty popular. Leaks leaks leaks. Blah blah blah.

Isaac - Most popular character after K. Rool. Possibly tied with Geno. Leaks lea- you get the idea

Geno - Most popular character after(?) Isaac. Possibly tied with Isaac. Leaks.

WHO ARE THE OTHER TWO? Or one if you count the echoes as a 5th newcomer.

Hmmm.... ... .. 4 + 1 ... 12 ... 15 but... 12 in the og... 8 in melee... 10... makes sense...

I KNOW! It's Isaac and Bandana Dee! That was easy

Joking appart, i thought about that and got to pretty much the same approximations... i think it's a realistic number.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just a reminder that Dr. Mario was never an Echo Fighter. He took more time than Lucina or Dark Pit due to this. He's still a regular clone in the first place. Always was.

 

[Izayoi]

....Let's just say my name leads to Isaac twice.

May I get an Elma or two?

 

[Zinith]

I kinda imagine your list only having two tiers: "Yoshi" and "Not Yoshi".

But what if Boshi gets in? He's technically both...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I do wonder why Dr. Mario wasn't made an Echo of Mario...I get Young and Toon Link due to being shorter and all that but Dr. Mario is the same height and weight.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I do wonder why Dr. Mario wasn't made an Echo of Mario...I get Young and Toon Link due to being shorter and all that but Dr. Mario is the same height and weight.

Because he has completely different moves from Mario. And a lot of different statistics too.

 

[Enchess]

....Let's just say my name leads to Isaac twice.

May I get an Elma or two?

Maybe you can do all the names backwards. You have an "a"

 

[Shroob]

I do wonder why Dr. Mario wasn't made an Echo of Mario...I get Young and Toon Link due to being shorter and all that but Dr. Mario is the same height and weight.

Speed.

Dr.Mario was always supposed to be a slower, stronger Mario, but Melee was janky in that regards.


Echoes have the same physics as their base, so a change in speed = not an echo.

 

[osby]

Dr. Mario is heavier and slower than Mario.

 

[Idon]

I do wonder why Dr. Mario wasn't made an Echo of Mario...I get Young and Toon Link due to being shorter and all that but Dr. Mario is the same height and weight.

Stastically, they're a bit too different to play even similar to each other.
Even if they share animations their traits and the properties of those moves are so numerous, you'd be hard pressed to consider them near 1:1 to each other.

Now, for why THAT is the case?
Tradition.
Every weird wonky exception and contradiction can be chalked up to Sakurai saying "Well, it made sense at the time."

 

[Enchess]

Zinith should join in the username newcomer game. I'm really curious what it'll be with no "B" available to work with.

 

[Izayoi]

Maybe you can do all the names backwards. You have an "a"

...I can get an Elma!


That alone makes me happy.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Makes lot of sense.

 

[Zinith]

Zinith should join in the username newcomer game. I'm really curious what it'll be with no "B" available to work with.

Zanza
Isaac
Ninten
Impa
Terra Branford
Henry Fleming

 

[Shroob]

The September 6th leak has a little over 24 hours left until we can with 100% certainty toss it in the trash.


Of course I don't believe it, but it's just proper procedure.

 

[Enchess]

Zanza

Nice. We could have a "Battle of the Gods" event match with Shulk v Zanza.

Spoiler: Xenoblade spoilers

Wait, Zanza has already appeared on a stage (or is a stage), so he can't be in

 

[Noipoi]

Never before seen in Smash Bros, Bandanna Dee!
Originally from Super Mario rpg, it's Geno!
Isaac, from the Golden sun series!
Pokemon from the Alola region, specifically Incineroar!
Oh my gosh! It's Banjo and Kazooie!
It's everyone's favorite secretary, Isabelle!

Alright, I got a little creative. Sue me.

 

[Koopaul]

Echoes have the same physics as their base, so a change in speed = not an echo.

Do we know that for sure?

Also I'm laughing at anyone who thought we'd have another Smash anouncement this soon. It was 57 days after E3 we got the next Direct.