Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Omega Tyrant]

I think this is somewhat true, but it's not about having an objective "potential" but in that Sakurai can form an image for how the character plays that is unique and fun. This sits more on the creator. For instance Sakurai was left wondering what would balloon fighter do if all his balloons were popped.

Yeah I don't see why people like to trump up "moveset potential doesn't matter!" and act like it's some fan rule, when Sakurai has made it very clear unique obvious moveset potential is an important factor to him, and has been the main reason certain characters made the roster or were rejected (most notoriously with Chrom's rejection in Smash 4). Now the main problem with the argument is that "moveset potential" is very subjective, people will come up with "moveset potential" for any thing imaginable and claim it would make a good Smash character (I've personally found many fan-suggested movesets to justify moveset potential to be ridiculous or overly-convoluted or flatout not interesting), while ultimately none of us are Sakurai, so we don't know what he would envision and find to be a good fit. And sure for some characters Sakurai largely madeup the movesets, but Sakurai was still able to envision the moveset in the character and find it to be a good worthwhile fit into the game. Ultimately having obvious moveset potential or not isn't going to be the sole-deciding factor for a why characters makes it in or not, but it is still an important factor that can't be denied.

Similarly, there's a lot of people who trump up "representation doesn't matter!", even though we have several confirmed instances of it being the main reason why a character made it in or were rejected in prior games and Sakurai has outright said it is a factor to him. Of course like with moveset potential it alone isn't going to get a character in or not, but nonetheless it has been yet another factor to deciding the roster in the past.

 

[praline]

Here’s a fun little game I found. Either treat them together or treat them seperately, it’s your choice:

Spoiler

Chart 1: Incineroar, Amaterasu, Spring Man, Black Knight, Azura, Ken, Waddle Dee, Lloyd

Chart 2: Paper Mario, Geno, Decidueye, Monster Hunter, Rayman, Shantae, Elma, Galacta Knight

You made this too easy.
Chart 1: Banjo, Azura, Skull Kid, Shovel Knight, Bomberman, Black Knight and Gardevoir
Chart 2: Paper Mario, Geno, Crono, Celica, Lyn, Elma and Chibi Robo.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

In my perfect world the brand new characters are paid DLC but all come with stages and multiple trophies and songs while Echos and Assist trophies for new series are added as Free DLC for all to enjoy.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I mean, one thing Ultimate would have in terms of DLC over several other fighting games is that Ultimate has a *massive* roster and stagelist included, so any DLC is just an extra and isn't needed for many players to feel like they got a complete game (especially if Ultimate is their first Smash game.)

Random thing, but, in Smash 4 you could buy stuff for one version or buy them for both versions for slightly more, so, I wonder if Ultimate would do the one version price or the two version price for whatever model they use, either individual purchases or a season pass?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What costumes do you guys want to see?

Bowser: Dry Bowser
King K. Rool: Baron K. Roolenstein, Kaptain K. Rool, King Krusha K. Rool

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yep, exactly how I feel. Though I might just ignore it. The only DLC character that would tempt me would be Banjo. I already have everyone else I want.

Alright dude, I want you to answer this.... why does it make you ill?
Is it that you think the game should come complete and not make new content afterward?
Is it that you dont think Smash games have enough content?
I really do want to understand.... I dont see how anyone who spends so much time on this forum (i.e. any) would not want more Smash content to come over time.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I don’t mind DLC trains at all if the company did their best with the base game. Sakurai does that. I will faithfully purchase any new characters or stages.

DLC in concept is not a bad idea/thing, but the industry has kind of ruined it for most people. Lets just be happy Nintendo never heard of loot boxes

 

[Icedragonadam]

Wasn't there supposed teasing of a Nintendo Direct from various people during the DLC period around September or something only for it to be completely false?

 

[RouffWestie]

Here’s a fun little game I found. Either treat them together or treat them seperately, it’s your choice:

Spoiler

Chart 1: Incineroar, Amaterasu, Spring Man, Black Knight, Azura, Ken, Waddle Dee, Lloyd

Chart 2: Paper Mario, Geno, Decidueye, Monster Hunter, Rayman, Shantae, Elma, Galacta Knight

Just add Paper Mario and Banjo-Kazooie, then spend the next 2 weeks on vacation.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Here’s a fun little game I found. Either treat them together or treat them seperately, it’s your choice:

Spoiler

Chart 1: Incineroar, Amaterasu, Spring Man, Black Knight, Azura, Ken, Waddle Dee, Lloyd

Chart 2: Paper Mario, Geno, Decidueye, Monster Hunter, Rayman, Shantae, Elma, Galacta Knight

Chart 1:
Dixie, Bandana Dee, Tetra, Impa, Medusa, Ken, Skull Kid, Ashley, Birdo, Bomberman, Springman

Chart 2:
Paper Mario, Decidueye, Tetra, Elma, Sylux, Rayman, Chun-Li, Lyn

I think I mathed right? this was a hard game...

Maybe I'm just dumb...

 

[Iridium]

I'm actually scared about how long and wild the lines may be when the game comes out. A Friday gives me more time to find that special edition though, and I do have my money...

I really want that Pro Controller...

 

[WallyPalmer]

Here’s a question, disregarding any rumors or potential leaks, who do you think are the most likely characters for the base roster?

Personally, I think Dixie Kong and Isabelle are both fairly likely, as are BWD, Geno, and Isaac.

 

[Xgears]

Here’s a fun little game I found. Either treat them together or treat them seperately, it’s your choice:

Spoiler

Chart 1: Incineroar, Amaterasu, Spring Man, Black Knight, Azura, Ken, Waddle Dee, Lloyd

Chart 2: Paper Mario, Geno, Decidueye, Monster Hunter, Rayman, Shantae, Elma, Galacta Knight

>No Zero

pass

 

[Chrono.]

Here’s a question, disregarding any rumors or potential leaks, who do you think are the most likely characters for the base roster?

Personally, I think Dixie Kong and Isabelle are both fairly likely, as are BWD, Geno, and Isaac.

Shadow and Isabelle are the ones I'm most confident in.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Here’s a question, disregarding any rumors or potential leaks, who do you think are the most likely characters for the base roster?

Personally, I think Dixie Kong and Isabelle are both fairly likely, as are BWD, Geno, and Isaac.

I consider Bandana Dee a lock, I know people hate the idea of "locks" but I really think he is.

Isabelle is very likely, Shadow and Ken too, Geno and Isaac are pretty likely and I think Elma is as well.

Dixie is very up in the air for me and I don't really know what to think.

 

[WertQuadNine]

No one is a lock, even for DLC.

Say it louder for the people in the back my guy

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Yesterday I stated I would change my avvy to Skull Kid if he became a playable character. I append this statement to apply to the initial game's release; DLC does not count.

Nice save

 

[pupNapoleon]

To be honest, I think like you there. I like to see more characters and content, as long as it makes the game feel more complete. I guess some people don't have too many characters they care to see, and couldn't care less if we got a lot of new content, and that's fine, but still.

Even then, if you dont want more content, dont buy it...
I understand the anger of "holding content back," but that practice is not something we have experienced from Nintendo. I remember New Super Luigi U, a full downright game that was a 1/3 cost of the original DLC pack.

There is a finite amount of time and characters we will get. I just dont see how it is anything but fun...
and for those that hate it, I dont understand why they would post on a Smash forum. If you dont want more, are you really a fan?
That last sentence is a leap, I'm aware, but it became an emotional topic.

 

[praline]

What costumes do you guys want to see?

Bowser: Bowletta, Dry Bowser
King K. Rool: Baron K. Roolenstein, Kaptain K. Rool, King Krusha K. Rool

You forgot about Rookie!

 

[drag0nscythe]

>No Zero

pass

All 24 on goemon.

But Seriously, I would give 8 to Goemon. Since you need 3rd party support. Afterwards, we have 16.
3 for Bandanna Dee
1 for Black Knight
1 for Ken
1 for Impa

And the rest on balancing.

 

[Deleted member]

Here’s a fun little game I found. Either treat them together or treat them seperately, it’s your choice:

Spoiler

Chart 1: Incineroar, Amaterasu, Spring Man, Black Knight, Azura, Ken, Waddle Dee, Lloyd

Chart 2: Paper Mario, Geno, Decidueye, Monster Hunter, Rayman, Shantae, Elma, Galacta Knight

Chart 1: Shovel Knight(5), Black Knight(6), Impa(7), Gardevoir(8), Ken(9), Bandana Dee(12), Bomberman(15), Medusa(16), Proto Man(17), Amaterasu(20) and Azura(25)

Chart 2: Crono(5), Celica(10), Decidueye(15), Lyn(18), Chun-Li(21), Elma(22) and Rayman(25)

Both charts: Shovel Knight(5), Crono(10), Celica(15), Chun-Li(18), Lyn(21), Elma(23), Black Knight(24) and Impa(25)

 

[pupNapoleon]

DLC in concept is not a bad idea/thing, but the industry has kind of ruined it for most people. Lets just be happy Nintendo never heard of loot boxes

I compare Nintendo to its own history. They have a long history and a strong company identity for a reason.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I don't think I'd be against a season pass, personally. I like the idea of paying once, and not having to worry about the existential crisis of paying specifically for characters that I'm less of a fan of in order to get the entire set. But I'm not really aware all that much of monetizing in the gaming industry, outside of some Nintendo games, so maybe I'm blissfully ignorant.

I know in the Smash 4 days I didn't get any DLC because I didn't know any of the characters (shh, I was young and naive... at 23) outside of veterans, until my friend wanted Cloud so I got that one. But now that I'm more hyped for Ultimate, I might have a "collect them all" attitude.

 

[lightdrago]

Chart 1: Shovel Knight(5), Black Knight(6), Impa(7), Gardevoir(8), Ken(9), Bandana Dee(12), Bomberman(15), Medusa(16), Proto Man(17), Amaterasu(20) and Azura(25)

Chart 2: Crono(5), Celica(10), Decidueye(15), Lyn(18), Chun-Li(21), Elma(22) and Rayman(25)

Both charts: Shovel Knight(5), Crono(10), Celica(15), Chun-Li(18), Lyn(21), Elma(23), Black Knight(24) and Impa(25)

Ah, you went a little over. It’s 24 days, not 25.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Here’s a question, disregarding any rumors or potential leaks, who do you think are the most likely characters for the base roster?

Personally, I think Dixie Kong and Isabelle are both fairly likely, as are BWD, Geno, and Isaac.

I have a good feeling about Isaac, Dixie, Isabelle, Geno and Heihachi

 

[pupNapoleon]

Dixie is very up in the air for me and I don't really know what to think.

Why is that? Are you just preparing for her possible exclusion? You have her as your avatar, so its clear where your heart is... but why does your head tell you what it does?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I don’t mind DLC trains at all if the company did their best with the base game. Sakurai does that. I will faithfully purchase any new characters or stages.

Especially when the extra content is more substantial than "here, have two million costumes".

 

[Nazyrus]

I don't know if someone has come out with this idea before but… I will just say it:

AT…amiibos

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

All these Isaac hints, and that 'fake' leak from last night has me hella anxious....


And I've never even played a golden sun game before.

I'm more interested in whether Sakurai will complete the holy quartet of Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, and Geno.

Like, he's already halfway there. Might as well go all the way.

Here’s a question, disregarding any rumors or potential leaks, who do you think are the most likely characters for the base roster?

Personally, I think Dixie Kong and Isabelle are both fairly likely, as are BWD, Geno, and Isaac.

Incineroar, Isaac, Isabelle, Ken, Shadow, Geno, Skull Kid, and Chorus Kids. Maybe Banjo & Kazooie and Dixie Kong alongside them.

I don't know if someone has come out with this idea before but… I will just say it:

AT…amiibos

No. They'd be absolutely useless, and only popular ATs like Waluigi, Lyn, and Ashley would actually sell.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Even then, if you dont want more content, dont buy it...
I understand the anger of "holding content back," but that practice is not something we have experienced from Nintendo. I remember New Super Luigi U, a full downright game that was a 1/3 cost of the original DLC pack.

There is a finite amount of time and characters we will get. I just dont see how it is anything but fun...
and for those that hate it, I dont understand why they would post on a Smash forum. If you dont want more, are you really a fan?
That last sentence is a leap, I'm aware, but it became an emotional topic.

Another thing to point out, you can enjoy DLC content even if you don't buy it by seeing others use the characters online and by watching livestreams of the characters being played as. (Well, assuming the characters are balanced properly, of course.)

Personally, with livestreams, I can get excited for DLC for games that I don't even own; it's fun observing how things like new characters add to games.

 

[Opossum]

Here’s a fun little game I found. Either treat them together or treat them seperately, it’s your choice:

Spoiler

Chart 1: Incineroar, Amaterasu, Spring Man, Black Knight, Azura, Ken, Waddle Dee, Lloyd

Chart 2: Paper Mario, Geno, Decidueye, Monster Hunter, Rayman, Shantae, Elma, Galacta Knight

Chart 1: Waluigi, Shovel Knight, Sora, Dixie Kong, Spring Man, Ken, Birdo, Gardevoir

Chart 2: Celica, Decidueye, Dr. Eggman, Sans, Cranky Kong, Elma, Chibi-Robo, Galacta Knight

Combined: Celica, Decidueye, Waluigi, Sans, Spring Man, Birdo

 

[Sharkarat]

Here’s a fun little game I found. Either treat them together or treat them seperately, it’s your choice:

Spoiler

Chart 1: Incineroar, Amaterasu, Spring Man, Black Knight, Azura, Ken, Waddle Dee, Lloyd

Chart 2: Paper Mario, Geno, Decidueye, Monster Hunter, Rayman, Shantae, Elma, Galacta Knight

That Second one feels pretty badly balanced
Chart 1

Chart 2

 

[Deleted member]

Ah, you went a little over. It’s 24 days, not 25.

Ah right, I forgot. Damnit, I like round numbers.
Cut Medusa from 1, replace Lyn for Cranky Kong and Ghirahim on 2 and BK on the "both".

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Dee and Isaac are my guesses for the base roster.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm more interested in whether Sakurai will complete the holy quartet of Ridley, K. Rool, Isaac, and Geno.

Like, he's already halfway there. Might as well go all the way.

Eh... this wasnt a quartet, and I reject your equivocation of Ridley and K Rool to Isaac and Geno.

I love them all, especially the first three. But no, Isaac and Geno are very different from Ridley and K Rool.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I compare Nintendo to its own history. They have a long history and a strong company identity for a reason.

I mean I can't immediately recall any but I do think they have had a few DLC/monetary fiascoes (again, I don't really recall), but nothing Smash related has ever been shaky. To think they're trying to **** over the consumer when using DLC the way others do isn't really fair.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Waddle Dee, Dixie, Elma, Chrous Kids, and Incineroar are my bets for base roster.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Why is that? Are you just preparing for her possible exclusion? You have her as your avatar, so its clear where your heart is... but why does your head tell you what it does?

Dixie as an echo is a possibility but I'm not sure if that would actually happen or not, she's been planned as a presumably unique character in the past, meaning sakurai saw unique potential in her, and he never attempted to add her as a clone in either Brawl or Smash 4 as well. And while her popularity isn't what k rool or ridley is she is still a decently popular long time request to the point that making her an echo would also feel disappointing that I'm not sure sakurai would even go for it.

There's also the fact that we're months in with 4 echo characters revealed, I'd think that given that she's pretty popular she'd be one of the first revealed than leaving us hanging for months.

Maybe I'm biased and really don't want her to be an echo but I'm really just not sure.

And her being a unique character is obviously hindered by the fact that there are more popular characters than her.

It really feels like she's just gonna get left out again.

 

[N3ON]

Disregarding leaks?

Isabelle, Shadow and Geno.

 

[Luigi The President]

Here’s a question, disregarding any rumors or potential leaks, who do you think are the most likely characters for the base roster?

Personally, I think Dixie Kong and Isabelle are both fairly likely, as are BWD, Geno, and Isaac.

Bandana Dee, Isaac, Skull Kid, Geno. Not including Echoes.
My heart really wants to say Paper Mario but...I know he's got some competition, just because of how little space there is.