Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Over9000BPM]

I stopped trusting safe search a looooooooooooong time ago. Never look up any of the space furries.

Even some of the technically-not-lewd stuff can be really disturbing. Why is there always an exaggeratedly obese version of every character I look up so high up on the results?

Like people think I’m sick because I honestly consider huge tracts of land to be a standard physical trait of Samus at this point, but some of the things I’ve seen make me look positively quaint in comparison.

 

[Wyoming]

Looking back at Smash 4 updates feels super weird. Yoshi and Sheik weren't revealed to actually be returning until the April 8th direct, and neither was Captain Falcon until a year after Smash 4's inital e3 trailer. Characters like Ness, Jigglypuff, Game & Watch, and R.O.B. weren't even revealed officially.

Pretty normal for us fellows that followed Brawl. Sm4sh shared the same direction of not revealing the secrets before release (third parties exempt for Brawl for marketing reasons)

Pre-Brawl was talk of cutting everyone introduced in Melee excluding Peach, Bowser, Mewtwo, and Zelda as well as Ness and Puff. Nowadays people are more conservative on the cuts prediction. Back then everyone was obviously not in the game if not yet shown.

 

[MainJPW]

Vector Man being an Assist Trophy or something. I played his games on that one Sonic Collection as a kid, and I thought they were pretty cool. Though I don't know if he's actually owned by Sega, who I'm pretty sure published it or Blue Sky, the developer. His games have some decent tracks too. Nothing that claps as hard as MM, Sonic or Castlevania, but some catchy 90's techno.

Same for Buck Bumble, I just want the main theme from that game on some stage, don't care which.

If Vectorman is on SEGA Genesis Collection, SEGA Genesis Classic Pack, Sonic Gems Collection, SEGA Forever and Sonic’s Ultimate Genesis Collection that pretty much means they own it, right?

 

[Knight Dude]

Daisy's Final Smash
She takes a big, deep breath, and shouts -

HI, I'M DAISY!​

- at speaker distorting volume. It's effect is sort of like the effect you get when 5-Volt catches you in the Gamer stage.

Piccolo prepared us for that. We know the perfect counter.

If Vectorman is on SEGA Genesis Collection, SEGA Genesis Classic Pack, Sonic Gems Collection, SEGA Forever and Sonic’s Ultimate Genesis Collection that pretty much means they own it, right?

Figured as much, but I wasn't 100% sure on it.

 

[Fenriraga]

It's still so weird and refreshing to not have to worry about a character not returning.

 

[KMDP]

Piccolo prepared us for that. We know the perfect counter.

Figured as much, but I wasn't 100% sure on it.

Daisy and Kirby combine their power for Ultimate destruction.

 

[Sharkarat]

I'm not trying to discredit the character, I honestly don't see where you're coming from with that.

Because outside the Street fighter fandom i think Juri is pretty much a no-name. so by saying Shadow is Juri your pretty much saying Shadows a no-name.

If you want to talk about actual characters, Metal Sonic is a more fitting equation to Akuma, given they're both evil incarnations of the base character and have mostly the same abilities. While Shadow is more of a rival given character development in a few others. SA2 is the only one I can think of where he's a true villain, but even then he helps Sonic at the end of it all. Then again, I'm sure there's some incarnations where this isn't true, so who knows.

Should have kept it at just dark counterpart. I know Shadow isn't really evil. But I also think Shadow is miles more recognizable than metal sonic to the general public.
[/QUOTE]The conversation sparked with Shadow supposedly being more iconic than Tails, given all the fanfare with him in the Sonic community. I disagreed with this by using SF as a comparison, using two characters with similar roles and placement in their history with popularity as an argument.[/QUOTE]I started it because I disagreed with Shadow getting in without Tails being particualry surprising. And They're not in Similar place historically, There's like a ten year difference and Juri is more around Sonic Color era.

Also apart of my argument was that Tails is a gameplay clone of Sonic in the classic games outside of flying, which would work for an Up-B switch like many were suggesting for Shadow. But even if you use Akuma instead of Juri, Ken would still be more iconic in terms of status, given he isn't the P2 character and came in a later iteration of SF II as a playable fighter.
All I'm saying is popularity doesn't equate to how iconic they are.

Dude, I'm pretty sure Akuma has about as many crossover Appearances as Ryu himself has. The reason Ken is the go to for smash is that he works better as an echo.

Tails is Sonic's partner and player 2 character and is ingrained in pop culture and the series as opposed to Shadow, despite him being a fan favorite character and is considered vastly popular compared to Tails.

I'm just not as sure as you are that Sakurai would chose "importance" over popularity when it comes to echo choices.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

On Reddit (again), I found this tier list, which averaged tier list placements for the demo characters, from the tier lists created by ESAM, ZeRo and M2K/Salem. I'm mostly certain these are not ordered within tiers, so keep that in mind.

I also get that this won't mean much, so please don't remind me.

I find the concept of demo tier lists to be the dumbest thing; besides the fact it's a demo with so much subject to change, there's the fact people have barely got to play it and when they have it been mostly done so under 2 minute time matches with items/Smash Balls on. The month old Smash 3DS tier lists were bad enough, but at least those were with the released game that people actually got to play competitively on their own terms. I get it's ultimately harmless, but still see it as something so pointlessly forced.

And then there's some people making tier lists with all the other characters based on minutes long beta footage of them...

 

[Zinith]

I find the concept of demo tier lists to be the dumbest thing; besides the fact it's a demo with so much subject to change, there's the fact people have barely got to play it and when they have it been mostly done so under 2 minute time matches with items/Smash Balls on. The month old Smash 3DS tier lists were bad enough, but at least those were with the released game that people actually got to play competitively on their own terms. I get it's ultimately harmless, but still see it as something so pointlessly forced.

And then there's some people making tier lists with all the other characters based on minutes long beta footage of them...

Oh my god, that last part annoys me the most!!!

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/429751224

Does this mean something?

Probably nothing but could mean we will get a reveal in September though

 

[Knight Dude]

It's still so weird and refreshing to not have to worry about a character not returning.

It's pretty awesome to think about too. One minute you're like "What about..." Then you remember they are in. Everyone gets their salty runback. Even Young Link.

That makes potential DLC even more hype, it's bound to be ALL new content.

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

I think I asked this, but everyone completely misunderstood me, what completely never-gonna-happen picks would you like to see?
As an example, the more I think about it the more the following grows on me, Marshmello for smash ultimate DLC.
(I've thought about that one way too much, I'm even stewing over the details of a support thread)
To add to my list, Monika from DDLC, Cuphead from his self-titled game, and Sakurai along with a Reggie echo
Additionally, a home stage for each could include: Joytime (Mello) The Literature Club (Monika), a Stage that shifts though each of the different Cuphead boss fights, and Nintendo headquarters (Sakurai/Reggie)

 

[ZephyrZ]

High tier Link?
Top tier Pokémon Trainer?

I’ve never played high tier characters before...how weird is this gonna be?

I think it'll really depend on the character. Some top tier characters get a lot of hate from the community, but some are perfectly well accepted. Generally if they're unfun to play against or spectate (Rosalina, Sonic, Bayonetta) or are overly busted in some way (pre-patch Diddy Kong, Cloud, Bayonetta) they're going to be hated.

I think people will go easy on the Pokemon Trainer because, while he seems good, I don't think any of his three pokemon will be so broken they'll carry bad players and Ivysaur seems like the only one of the three that could be even slightly annoying to fight. The switching mechanic will also help keep battles dynamic so players probably won't get bored easily with Trainer matches.

With Link on the other hand....well, if he still relies heavily on zoning, I could see people getting upset over him. But his bomb set ups could be exciting, and the more aggressive gameplay of Ultimate may help alleviate some of that annoyance.

Gameplay wise, it's a huge relief to have ways to justify your character's weakness. I imagine Zard is going to be a lot more fun for me to play when I have a way to make up for his poor air mobility (Squirtle switch) just like how Mewtwo is fun to play because he has ways to work around his low weight (an amazing air dodge, amazing air mobility, good kill power). Maining a low tier can just be frustrating sometimes.

 

[Enchess]

I think I asked this, but everyone completely misunderstood me, what completely never-gonna-happen picks would you like to see?
As an example, the more I think about it the more the following grows on me, Marshmello for smash ultimate DLC.
(I've thought about that one way too much, I'm even stewing over the details of a support thread)
To add to my list, Monika from DDLC, Cuphead from his self-titled game, and Sakurai along with a Reggie echo
Additionally, a home stage for each could include: Joytime (Mello) The Literature Club (Monika), a Stage that shifts though each of the different Cuphead boss fights, and Nintendo headquarters (Sakurai/Reggie)

Monita from NintendoLand, Picross Mario, Mallo from Pushmo, Melia, Trubbish

 

[Untouch]

Looks like the pokemon and assist trophy pages on the blog changed.
Maybe that's why the "NEW" isn't there anymore?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The internet is a strange and dangerous place, I googled ZSS with google safe search on to see if the ultimate look actually matched the SR design... *Thousand yard stare and PTSD flashbacks*

You're telling me, I did an innocent image search for Plum earlier, just in case I wanted to set up a support thread, and at least one disturbing one popped up (alongside a Baby Mario pic that isn't even remotely safe for work).

Granted, I have seen lots of crap at this point.

It's still so weird and refreshing to not have to worry about a character not returning.

This is exactly why I'm looking forward to newcomers this time.

I think I asked this, but everyone completely misunderstood me, what completely never-gonna-happen picks would you like to see?
As an example, the more I think about it the more the following grows on me, Marshmello for smash ultimate DLC.
(I've thought about that one way too much, I'm even stewing over the details of a support thread)
To add to my list, Monika from DDLC, Cuphead from his self-titled game, and Sakurai along with a Reggie echo
Additionally, a home stage for each could include: Joytime (Mello) The Literature Club (Monika), a Stage that shifts though each of the different Cuphead boss fights, and Nintendo headquarters (Sakurai/Reggie)

I think the only characters that are truly impossible are those not even close to Nintendo consoles, so it'd be awesome to see Cuphead, Sly Cooper, Jak & Daxter, and Ratchet & Clank in Smash. Although the possibility of a work-around might be there, even then.

 

[Knight Dude]

I think I asked this, but everyone completely misunderstood me, what completely never-gonna-happen picks would you like to see?
As an example, the more I think about it the more the following grows on me, Marshmello for smash ultimate DLC.
(I've thought about that one way too much, I'm even stewing over the details of a support thread)
To add to my list, Monika from DDLC, Cuphead from his self-titled game, and Sakurai along with a Reggie echo
Additionally, a home stage for each could include: Joytime (Mello) The Literature Club (Monika), a Stage that shifts though each of the different Cuphead boss fights, and Nintendo headquarters (Sakurai/Reggie)

If we're digging super deep into the character barrel only. I got a couple, that I'd kinda want. Kind of.

I was thinking Raziel from Legacy of Kain or Death from Darksiders. Both look edgy as hell, but the cool kind of edgy, and less generic than say, Reaper(who's design isn't even awful) Or Fulgore, since Microsoft owns him now.

I don't know if Lara Croft counts, since I think she's more than well known enough for people to understand if she was chosen, but her having the pistols would probably cause a bit of trouble. Though both Tree Gelbman and myself have talked about this a few times.

 

[92MilesPrower]

92MilesPrower i miss your fan made Snake codecs, think you’ll get back to those?

Might as well finally address the elephant in the room in relation to me:

MILES, WHERE ARE THE CODECS? WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? WHY DID YOU STOP?

Fret not, my friends, for the codecs will resume shortly. As for what happened, I just got tired of making them for a while, it suddenly didn't really interest me too much anymore to keep on doing daily codecs. Plus, writer's block is definitely a thing that happens when you're writing something as simple as codecs, but I think I have plenty of good ideas again. However, rather than having daily codecs as I did originally, I will be writing them at my own pace, since I'd rather not stress myself out with an unnecessary time constraint, and I can give the rest of the codecs a bit more polish.

Now for the question you're probably asking after reading that:

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THEY'LL RESUME SOON™? WHEN WILL WE GET THE NEXT CODEC?

As of this moment, I am working on finally writing that Lucas codec that was supposed to be posted on July 30th, my 21st birthday (yes, the bias for my main is obvious). Expect to see it on here tomorrow.

In other words...

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Oh...

Oh....

Am I the Lara Croft guy?

Like I was the Bayo guy last time?

You know what happened last time?

I'm not saying it's true.

But it's true.

Lara Croft for Smash Ultimate DLC.

 

[PeridotGX]

I think I asked this, but everyone completely misunderstood me, what completely never-gonna-happen picks would you like to see?
As an example, the more I think about it the more the following grows on me, Marshmello for smash ultimate DLC.
(I've thought about that one way too much, I'm even stewing over the details of a support thread)
To add to my list, Monika from DDLC, Cuphead from his self-titled game, and Sakurai along with a Reggie echo
Additionally, a home stage for each could include: Joytime (Mello) The Literature Club (Monika), a Stage that shifts though each of the different Cuphead boss fights, and Nintendo headquarters (Sakurai/Reggie)

Regular never going to happen: Maxwell (Scribblenauts), Heracross, and Fawful.

Advanced impossibility: Peridot (Steven Universe)

 

[MainJPW]

Figured as much, but I wasn't 100% sure on it.

Yeah, I really would like to see a new Vectorman some day. At least give the guy some cameos he’s got a cool design.

And I forgot his games are also on the SEGA Smash Packs 1 & 2 in ‘99 and ‘00 for PC, my introduction to Vectorman, Comix Zone, Sonic 2 and other SEGA classics.

 

[Starbound]

inb4 we get a September direct and we get a render from yesterday's leak.

 

[Radical Bones]

I wonder what kind of reaction this would have gotten if it hit 4chan around March:

 

[Misery Brick]

Because outside the Street fighter fandom i think Juri is pretty much a no-name. so by saying Shadow is Juri your pretty much saying Shadows a no-name.
Should have kept it at just dark counterpart. I know Shadow isn't really evil. But I also think Shadow is miles more recognizable than metal sonic to the general public.
I'm just not as sure as you are that Sakurai would chose "importance" over popularity when it comes to echo choices.

Like I said time and time again, Sakurai could literally throw Shadow in over Tails, and that'd be it. I would be extremely wrong and he would be thrown in the game. I wouldn't be losing any sleep over it, nor do I think I could predict what he will actually do. Only going off of things that have been observable so far.
Just all I'm saying is the common ideas that goes for Shadow's inclusion could literally be used for Tails. Unique Up-B, animations, taunts, etc.
But Tails does have the seniority, iconography, and amount of fans for him in order to get in, it may not be as vocal and vast as Shadow's, but they are there. (Also Juri isn't really a no name in the realm of fighting games, she's quite popular. Now outside of that, definitely not. Same could probably be said about Shadow, if you're not familiar with platformers or the modern series itself, you could probably not know who he is. But I digress.)
And I mean we did get Simon as the actual fighter instead of Richter or Trevor Belmont, or even Alucard. Despite two out of three making an appearance. So it does seem that Sakurai leans on seniority and iconography rather than popularity.
But I already stated my points and made myself clear, I feel like I'm just repeating what I already spoke on.

 

[KMDP]

Oh...

Oh....

Am I the Lara Croft guy?

Like I was the Bayo guy last time?

You know what happened last time?

I'm not saying it's true.

But it's true.

Lara Croft for Smash Ultimate DLC.

Just so long as original Lara is an option.

Also, add Lara Croft to the list of characters who should get multiple Stamina Mode death animations (along with Crash and Bubsy)

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Looks like the pokemon and assist trophy pages on the blog changed.
Maybe that's why the "NEW" isn't there anymore?

I don't notice a change ..did you not check it after the 8.8 direct? It changed after that.

 

[Untouch]

I wonder what kind of reaction this would have gotten if it hit 4chan around March:

View attachment 160744

I'd be impressed because they would look very well done, but I wouldn't believe they are real.

 

[monadoboy]

The talk of Chrom makes me think.

View attachment 160661

If someone had shown you this image from the official website before Chrom was confirmed, would you have believed it?

This fake leak's face from before Robin was revealed looks better than Ultimate Chrom....

 

[DevaAshera]

It's pretty awesome to think about too. One minute you're like "What about..." Then you remember they are in. Everyone gets their salty runback. Even Young Link.

That makes potential DLC even more hype, it's bound to be ALL new content.

Yeah, even if most characters are likely to be Echoes, it's still awesome.

Funny thing is, outside of characters, I want non-Mii costume DLC the most.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This might ruffle some feathers and tick some of the other oldies off but....

In terms of iconic-ness, Banjo and Kazooie are essentially the same tier as Bayonetta.

• Both series are critical darlings
• Both series sold well
• Both series are beloved by Nintendo fans, but are generally unknown to the public at large
• Both series are seen as among the best of their genre (3D Platformers and Action Games)
• Both series have incredibly passionate and dedicated fans
• Both series have leads that couldn't be mistaken for anyone else
• Both series even had games that were partially made by Nintendo

Really, both characters are Nintendo fan favorites but not much else. Banjo is only iconic to Nintendo fans, as is Bayonetta. They're simply iconic to different eras with Banjo and Kazooie being fairly big in the N64 era and Bayonetta being fairly big in the Wii U and Switch era.


And that's not a bad thing. Not every third party needs to be some super iconic character that everyone will know.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Just so long as original Lara is an option.

Also, add Lara Croft to the list of characters who should get multiple Stamina Mode death animations (along with Crash and Bubsy)

Considering Sakurai's penchant for making sure characters follow their most iconic designs, I can't see new trilogy Lara getting in.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I wonder what kind of reaction this would have gotten if it hit 4chan around March:

View attachment 160744

Pfft, Chrom? Yeah right, like we're going to get another Awakening character. Also why does WFT's face look so different? What's with the texture on Wolf's fur?

Ridley and K.Rool are clearly just photoshopped versions of Charizard and Bowser.

 

[Zinith]

I wonder what kind of reaction this would have gotten if it hit 4chan around March:

View attachment 160744

*clears throat*

"All leaks are bull**** until proven otherwise"

So yes, even that...

 

[Bootortle]

Looks like the pokemon and assist trophy pages on the blog changed.
Maybe that's why the "NEW" isn't there anymore?

What do you mean?

 

[Untouch]

I don't notice a change ..did you not check it after the 8.8 direct? It changed after that.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180808152152/https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/item/pokemon.html
This is what it used to look like.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180831005323/https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/item/pokemon.html
Here's how it looks right now.

 

[LetterO]

I wonder what kind of reaction this would have gotten if it hit 4chan around March:

View attachment 160744

"that chrom model is literal garbage, also there's no way in hell that they'd bring back young link, pichu, and actually put in ridley"

then there's the 4channers going that it's so unlikely to bring them back that it's super possible

 

[KMDP]

Considering Sakurai's penchant for making sure characters follow their most iconic designs, I can't see new trilogy Lara getting in.

Samus got a reduced bustline because all the boob-modelling budget went to Lara.

Yup.

The real leaks (this is not a leak).

 

[Idon]

I think I asked this, but everyone completely misunderstood me, what completely never-gonna-happen picks would you like to see?
As an example, the more I think about it the more the following grows on me, Marshmello for smash ultimate DLC.
(I've thought about that one way too much, I'm even stewing over the details of a support thread)
To add to my list, Monika from DDLC, Cuphead from his self-titled game, and Sakurai along with a Reggie echo
Additionally, a home stage for each could include: Joytime (Mello) The Literature Club (Monika), a Stage that shifts though each of the different Cuphead boss fights, and Nintendo headquarters (Sakurai/Reggie)

Let's see how many layers of NOPE, Demi-fiend is on.

1. 3rd party
2. Sega already has 2 characters
3. Niche genre
4. Niche game series within that genre
5. Extremely dark tones
6. Unconventional appearance
7. Anime-styled look
8. Comes from a game that never got released on a Nintendo console
9. Is a one-off protagonist
10. Game came out 13 years ago

At the very least, I have Featuring Dante memes.

 

[MrSmashFour]

What's all this about ESRB having rated the game already? This would be huge if true yet I can't find anything about Ultimate on the ESRB website

 

[RileyXY1]

What's all this about ESRB having rated the game already? This would be huge if true yet I can't find anything about Ultimate on the ESRB website

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate was just rated E10 by the ESRB.