Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Chrono.]

Agreed on Star Fox Grand Prix going no where. Plus it makes no sense in any way to make a Grand Prix game based solely on Star Fox when it has few characters to work with for one.

You got both Star Fox and Star Wolf teams alone, that's 8 characters right off the bat.

Then you start adding side characters and end up with at least 13-15, that's really good for a brand new racing game.

 

[DarkFalcon]

was only considered because they could fill a quota..

I was talking more along the lines of social quota's. Sakurai always liked adding oddball Retro picks.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I've honestly never really seen a divide. Bit late on this, but personally, when I was learning in-depth about the stories about Ridley and King K. Rool back during the tail-end of Smash 4, I was feeling for those guys, especially since this was coming from a hardcore Geno fan since Brawl. I feel seeing all these fan favorites doesn't necessarily mean the roster is gonna be "all fan favorites", but I feel that Ultimate will have a lot of long-time and/or highly requested characters for the past 5-10+ years or so with a few recent additions sprinkled in.

I pretty much expect the same, though even those recent picks will still be based on the ballot most likely, thus still being fan favorite picks

 

[Noipoi]

Out of curiosity, what is considered a 'Newer' favorite? So many of Nintendo's recognizable characters are either already in or are 'older' characters. The only notable ones left were the Inklings (since they were pretty new) and an ARMs represenative. Many of the ones I can think of are characters from before 2010, which are by no means new (new to the series, sure, but not 'New' themselves).

Elma, gen 7 Pokemon, Springman (who's probably dlc).
Besides ARMS, these series aren't new but the characters are.
Bandanna Dee's from the 90s but he really got his start in recent years, I won't count him though that's moving goal posts.
these are just a few examples, i'm sure there's more I can't think of right now.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Something similar happened with K. Rool. People didn't consider him old enough to be retro, yet he also was old and irrelevant.

Same can be said for Ryuta and Agent J, and lord knows how their fans feel.

 

[CosmicQuark]

While Arthur doesn't necessarily need to be a character, we should at the very least have a Ghouls 'n Goblins stage. With Castlevania, we could complete the I Wanna Be the Guy starter pack.

 

[Curious Villager]

Actually I'm pretty sure the ballot was super interested in finding out what girls wanted.

It's why they had a gender option in the ballot.

But if that's the case, who did they vote for?

Probably Isabelle and Professor Layton are notable characters. Both Animal Crossing and the Layton series have a notable larger female audience so I'd imagine most of their ballot votes came from female fans.

Other guesses are probably Isaac, Phoenix Wright and Lloyd though I'm not as sure on their series main audience.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

To be honest, shouldn't we wait until the full newcomer roster has been revealed before people make their complaints?

 

[Noipoi]

To be honest, shouldn't we wait until the full newcomer roster has been revealed before people make their complaints?

It's an internet message board about video games, if we're not complaining somethings wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

I pretty much expect the same, though even those recent picks will still be based on the ballot most likely, thus still being fan favorite picks

On the topic of fan favorites, while Phoenix Wright and Amaterasu are usually mentioned left and right when it comes to Capcom reps, I always play with them in Ultimate Marvel VS. Capcom 3. Though there was more character I had in my team that was a CLASSIC on the Wii...

C'mon, Sakurai.

Spoiler

 

[DarkFalcon]

To be honest, shouldn't we wait until the full newcomer roster has been revealed before people make their complaints?

I'm pretty satisfied as is tbh.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

You know what you're getting into when you start supporting a character from one of the revolving door franchises, the list of characters who have missed out from those series is already long. You can't go around blaming anything or anyone else when you get to taste the bad side of 'now or never', accepting that situation is like the entry requirement of supporting a character like that.

 

[Chrono.]

To be honest, shouldn't we wait until the full newcomer roster has been revealed before people make their complaints?

Not in this fandom.

 

[Garteam]

Simon probably didn't get in due to ballot, but friendly reminder he's still an incredibly popular character from an even more incredibly loved and yet more influencial series. Like for real, Castlevania is at least Halo tier in terms of importance to gaming history.

I know, that's kinda the point I was making. Simon didn't get in because a bunch of people wanted him in Smash and thusly voted for him in the ballot like Ridley or K. Rool. Simon got in because he's the face of a popular and important series, and Sakurai thought his moveset would be a good fit for Smash Bros. Simon was a popular gaming character in general, but he wasn't a popular Smash contender.

By the logic of people who say ballot popularity is the only determining factor for the roster, the last two points in Simon's favour are irrelevant as they don't relate to ballot popularity. That's why a lot of people are going around and saying "Well, Simon had to have done well on the ballot!", despite the fact we have no real evidence to verify this claim.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I’m not really sure why there’s a divide all of a sudden. Like, I am a fan of K. Rool. Glad he’s here. My next vote is Geno. But that’s me. I like Geno over Rex and Pyra. I also didn’t play through Mario RPG until 2011. I just like him. So, that is who I would vote for if there was a ballot going on.

But I wouldn’t vote against Rex and Pyra or Elma. I may not care for them, but I wouldn’t count them out or be mad if they made it in and Geno didn’t. At this point, it’d be just another Smash as usual. No Geno. Figures. And that’s about the extent of it. If Geno gets in and not the others, then I’ll be happy. My condolences to anyone who doesn’t have a new character to care for. It happens.

 

[NessSaysOkay]

I mean, I'm 16 years old and my picks are sorta in favor of "retro" ~~even though only one is even retro if you ask me and even then had a game as of 2007 but it's technically more of a spinoff and people didn't like it~~. Phoenix is from 2001, though his series has had appearances since 2017, and let's be honest a new game is probably coming next year, but still, he's far from a "new" character. Banjo Kazooie is arguably retro, though nuts and bolts is new-ish but again, not a new character. Ninten hasn't appeared since 1989, def old. Bandana Dee is technically from 1996, but he's been mainly relevant recently, so I'll consider him new. Rhythm Heaven debuted 2006, but has had a game as of 2015 so it's sorta in the middle.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually I'm pretty sure the ballot was super interested in finding out what girls wanted.

It's why they had a gender option in the ballot.

But if that's the case, who did they vote for?

We got Dark Samus in because horny LGBT girls thirst for abominations don't you know

 

[Sharkarat]

We've had similar discussions before, I've brought it up in the context of Geno/Banjo/K Rool.
But It's even worse when more with series with more casual fanbases is mixed into this. Isabelle's is a newish characters with more casual leaning fans, but I've seen multiple times she get downplayed as not that popular or important to her series.
And Bandana Dee (dee is technically older, but is in practice only 10 years old as a character, and popularity took off too late for Smash 4) is similarly questioned about popularity and once described as "wouldn't be hype".

Something similar happened with K. Rool. People didn't consider him old enough to be retro, yet he also was old and irrelevant.

For me it's not just the age, but mostly that I don't count characters from active series as retro.

 

[Deleted member]

I see talk about "retro" so I'm just gonna drop this here

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

On the topic of fan favorites, while Phoenix Wright and Amaterasu are usually mentioned left and right when it comes to Capcom reps, I always play with them in Ultimate Marvel VS. Capcom 3. Though there was more character I had in my team that was a CLASSIC on the Wii...

C'mon, Sakurai.

Spoiler

Plz. There's only one capcom pick worthy of inclusion at this point.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I thought Vergeben said that Simon had popularity on the ballot or something. I vaguely remember seeing that being talked about elsewhere.

 

[Alchadylan]

I think we all just need to learn to be positive even through disappointment. If your favorite character gets in from this point on, celebrate and don't take it for granted. If they don't, celebrate with others who got theirs in and appreciate that the roster is somehow bigger than the day before.

I think people just need to learn that going forward. If not, it's going to be an ugly 3 months for you if you don't get what you want in the end

The fact that this needs to be said is rather disappointing... I never played DK Country but the K Rool trailer was hype and the Gangplank Gallion remix is amazing.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I thought Vergeben said that Simon had popularity on the ballot or something. I vaguely remember seeing that being talked about elsewhere.

I would be shocked if everyone so far selected discounting Ritcher (but apparently he is way more known in Japan/Latin America so who knows) weren't super popular on the ballot.

 

[DarkFalcon]

This is just me but if ARMS got a character I'd feel so meh. Granted it's probably too late for base game, but I'm just sayin. I won't celebrate but I guess for people that wanted an ARMS character that'd be cool for them. Can't be bothered to feel excitement for other people though. I don't care for Geno either but I can feel happy at least that people who wanted for him for so long finally got their wish.

 

[TheDukeofDorks]

I see talk about "retro" so I'm just gonna drop this here
View attachment 160181

Retro is, by definition, something imitating the style/fashion/design of the recent past. Gamecube/PS2 era is the recent past.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

And Bandana Dee (dee is technically older, but is in practice only 10 years old as a character, and popularity took off too late for Smash 4) is similarly questioned about popularity and once described as "wouldn't be hype".

"But he's just a Goomba with a hat, why the heck would anyone want to play him?"

 

[Noipoi]

Who here's waiting for someone totally out there to be revealed so they can blow all these safe Geno, Skull Kid, Shadow, etc rosters out of the water?

 

[DarkFalcon]

Who here's waiting for someone totally out there to be revealed so they can blow all these safe Geno, Skull Kid, Shadow, etc rosters out of the water?

Memes are made real and Classic Dark Pit is the next character.

 

[Over9000BPM]

Anyone think I’ve got any chance of making this a thing?

http://aminoapps.com/p/na1a4d

 

[NessSaysOkay]

Who here's waiting for someone totally out there to be revealed so they can blow all these safe Geno, Skull Kid, Shadow, etc rosters out of the water?

If Rhythm Heaven is considered unexpected which I'd say it is (granted more people are predicting it then Wii Fit and such but I see a surprising amount of people brushing it off as too unpopular) then heck yes! Otherwise I mean, depends who it is but I tend to enjoy surprise characters so sure!

 

[Dixie Kong]

Who here's waiting for someone totally out there to be revealed so they can blow all these safe Geno, Skull Kid, Shadow, etc rosters out of the water?

Pyramid Head would do the trick.

 

[Wyoming]

Agreed on Star Fox Grand Prix going no where. Plus it makes no sense in any way to make a Grand Prix game based solely on Star Fox when it has few characters to work with for one. It would just seem bare bones in comparison to other racers.

Fox
Falco
Slippy
Peppy
Krystal
ROB 64
General Pepper
James McCloud
Katt Monroe
Bill
Wolf
Leon
Pigma
Andrew
Panther

Outside shots but feasible: General Scales, Tricky, Marcus McCloud, Amanda, Miyu, that other SF2 gal

Not a terrible amount to choose from...

 

[Sharkarat]

"But he's just a Goomba with a hat, why the heck would anyone want to play him?"

"But he's just a Krokodile with a crown, why the heck would anyone want to play him?"

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Who here's waiting for someone totally out there to be revealed so they can blow all these safe Geno, Skull Kid, Shadow, etc rosters out of the water?

Dovahkiin?



Seriously, though - we all keep going on about "we need a retro rep because we've always had one!" so I don't think that a Sakurai choice is out of the question. It may be a WFT, or it may be someone like Pokémon Trainer in Brawl that we didn't know we wanted until we saw them.

 

[AlphaSSB]

The Star Fox Grand Prix is something I've been really curious about. Strong rumors appear out of nowhere, and it gets brought back up every now and then. I'm not too sure what to think about it.

On one hand, I hope it's real. I'd love to see a new Star Fox title on Switch, and although I wasn't a fan of the idea at first, I read more into it and it could work quite well. The way it sounds is that it's similar to Diddy Kong racing. Imagine going through Corneria in Star Fox 64, only Falco, Peppy, and Slippy are controlled by other players. You're also making it to the boss together, but instead of it being a cooperative experience, it's a competitive one where you can even shoot at your 'teammates'. I think a game like that on a mobile console like the Switch can actually do quite well.

On the other hand, I don't think that this is the best route for the series to continue down. If it's a spin-off game that isn't really meant to define the future of the series, than I'm more okay with it. I think Star Fox needs to go down the Star Fox: Assault route. Bring in a solid plot that introduces a new enemy, continues to build off an existing timeline, and brings in a mix of vehicle and on-foot combat. Or they could go the Starlink route and go open-world, allowing you to travel the Lylat System, like that one rumored game, actually called Lylat System if I'm not mistaken.

Either way, if it's real, I really, really, hope it sells well. At this point, I won't complain about where the series goes, as long as it's successful. Gets the series off its feet, and one step closer to becoming a household name. Just like what Miyamoto wants it to be.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Okay, what did I miss in the past 200 pages?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Okay, what did I miss in the past 200 pages?

A debate about old characters vs newer and more recent ones and whether or not the newcomer roster is justified in its leaning on older characters. Also, female representation was also discussed as was what types of characters female voters were likely to vote on in the ballot.

 

[Taco Cruise]

How about a game until a new major leak pops up? (I have an odd hunch we'll know everything about the game by late September and a September or October direct will confirm some big controversial leak)

You can add up to 4 new characters, literally anyone you want that has appeared in a video game before (yes, even shrek or Goku, but preferably from a Nintendo console game or handheld), but you have to axe a character from each previous SSB game.

To get your first character, you must remove someone from Smash for Wii U/3DS. That character will also no longer appear in Ultimate so choose carefully!! To get your second character, you now also have to remove a character from Brawl (and they wouldn't appear in any future games, including Ultimate!). To get your third character, go back to Melee, and if you want that final character you need to axe an original 12.

You can choose to add up to 4, but don't need to add 4. I'll go now as an example:

Character 1: Banjo-Kazooie
Character to Cut for Banjo-Kazooie (reminder, first character cut is from Wii U/3DS and is also removed from Ultimate): Dark Pit
Character 2: Doom-Guy
Character to be cut for Doom-Guy: Toon Link
Character 3: Sylux
Character to be cut for Sylux: Pichu
Character 4: N/A
Character to be cut for N/A: Not Applicable (Never want to cut an original 12 personally)

I want to see who you guys would want to add and who you would remove to get them.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Okay, what did I miss in the past 200 pages?

More girls in smash, ballot results, generation war, what is retro, the meaning of life, the usual

 

[Noipoi]

Okay, what did I miss in the past 200 pages?

Girls in Video Games, then the 6 year olds and the 60 year olds went to war.