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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Luminario

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Your guess is as good as mine
What do you lot mean "this is the time for old school stuff" or "older fans have been left out for ages"? Who do you think was added in Smash Bros on N64? In Melee? In Brawl? What you actually want is for them to first-and-foremost cater to your nostalgia memories, regardless of younger fans or more recent characters.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Can we just not turn Smash into some kind of political or social agenda, please?
Wanting to play more characters that represent you is not a social agenda.

However if we are talking about making the game an actual even split in gender representation then yea no lol, that means we'd need like at minimum 20 new female characters, and unfortunately for a lot of reasons, there aren't that many big name female Nintendo characters, and we could get it by going through third party but it would be skipping over male/non-gendered characters just to fit a quota. Personally I'm just glad as many female and avatar options were added in 4.

And as a queer person, I think it's super cool we have a canonically bi character...even if it had to be Corrin >.> (Someone on here mentioned once another character was canonically bi...maybe Snake? I don't remember).

THIS, this is where I feel some of you are at fault when it comes to these things.

I don’t want more recent characters because their recent. I and many others, want them because we like them and want to them to get in as soon as possible.

There’s a reason why I and many others pushing characters like Elma and Lycanroc (whatever Gen 7 Pokémon) for the base roster. THEY’RE UNLIKELY FOR DLC. If Elma doesn’t get in the base roster she will likely get brushed aside for Rex and Pyra, and I don’t like them as much as Elma. If Lycanroc (or whatever Gen 7 Pokémon) do not get in, they might be brushed aside with who knows what Gen 8 Pokémon that I don’t know if I like as much as Lycanroc.

STOP GENERALIZING PEOPLE’S WANTS AND BRUSH THEM ASIDE. At least with characters like Geno and Isaac they had multiple chances and were becoming more and more likely over time. Elma and Lycanroc only have ONE safe shot at making the roster, and have had fans that pushed for them. This doesn’t mean we can want whatever character because they’re recent, WE WANT THEM BECAUSE WE LIKE THEM.

You guys in Smashboards are EXTREMISTS and are so narrow minded in the sense that it has there is one rule that is the end to be all.

“IT HAS TO BE POPULARITY”, “IT HAS TO BE _____!”

NO IT’S NOT! Newsflash, stop looking at newcomers through one ****ing lense and instead look through multiple angles, and if you want a rule, then it’s moveset potential, can the character be unique. Was :ultsimon: popular? No, he wasn’t anywhere to be found until Vergeben popped up, and it wasn’t until we dived deeper into Castlevania until we figured out why he was added and became likely because of that.

End rant.
While I appreciate your rant, it made me sad because Mimikyu has zero chance to ever be playable in smash. And it wasn't in Pokken either :(
 
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PsychoIncarnate

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Ghirahim fans said they liked him more than just being the flavor of the month, but their support didn't continue until now
 

Noipoi

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What do you lot mean "this is the time for old school stuff" or "older fans have been left out for ages"? Who do you think was added in Smash Bros on N64? In Melee? In Brawl? What you actually want is for them to first-and-foremost cater to your nostalgia memories, regardless of younger fans or more recent characters.
Nostalgia's one hell of a drug.
 
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ColietheGoalie

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It is subjective, but it's an objective fact that there can be a balance.
I don't know why everyone thinks the game can only be old characters or new characters when that's not the case at all.
I don't think anyone is saying there can't be balance. It's just that Smash 4 focused more so on the new, so fans of the old felt left out a little, and are happy to be catered to a bit more this time around.
 

Diddy Kong

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Simon Belmont was quite popular. I think his support spiked because Snake returned and a Bomberman AT showed up. And calm yo **** cause you are allowed to like new stuff. We lovers of old skool characters and things got majorly screwed over last game. Let us have our hype. Lest we forget that the INKLINGS where the first shown newcomers?
 

StormC

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What do you lot mean "this is the time for old school stuff" or "older fans have been left out for ages"? Who do you think was added in Smash Bros on N64? In Melee? In Brawl? What you actually want is for them to first-and-foremost cater to your nostalgia memories, regardless of younger fans or more recent characters.
Iconic characters with a lot of history were added to Smash 64, Melee, and Brawl.

Just like they're being added to Ultimate.

It has nothing to do with nostalgia. This is a strawman.
 
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Imadethistoseealeak

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Ghirahim fans said they liked him more than just being the flavor of the month, but their support didn't continue until now
Continue? As in after he was deconfirmed? Sorry maybe I'm misinterpreting.

ALSO wait what is the current conversation lol. So far Ultimate really isn't a love letter to retro characters, that's just King K. Rool and Simon/Richter although that could be seen as representing Castlevania as a whole which is still...kinda current? Not really.

But all other newcomers are defintely current if not seen recently. So until we see more newcomers, what are we saying???
 
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DarkFalcon

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THIS, this is where I feel some of you are at fault when it comes to these things.

I don’t want more recent characters because their recent. I and many others, want them because we like them and want to them to get in as soon as possible.

There’s a reason why I and many others pushing characters like Elma and Lycanroc (whatever Gen 7 Pokémon) for the base roster. THEY’RE UNLIKELY FOR DLC. If Elma doesn’t get in the base roster she will likely get brushed aside for Rex and Pyra, and I don’t like them as much as Elma. If Lycanroc (or whatever Gen 7 Pokémon) do not get in, they might be brushed aside with who knows what Gen 8 Pokémon that I don’t know if I like as much as Lycanroc.

STOP GENERALIZING PEOPLE’S WANTS AND BRUSH THEM ASIDE. At least with characters like Geno and Isaac they had multiple chances and were becoming more and more likely over time. Elma and Lycanroc only have ONE safe shot at making the roster, and have had fans that pushed for them. This doesn’t mean we can want whatever character because they’re recent, WE WANT THEM BECAUSE WE LIKE THEM.

You guys in Smashboards are EXTREMISTS and are so narrow minded in the sense that it has there is one rule that is the end to be all.

“IT HAS TO BE POPULARITY”, “IT HAS TO BE _____!”

NO IT’S NOT! Newsflash, stop looking at newcomers through one ****ing lense and instead look through multiple angles. Was :ultsimon: popular? No, he wasn’t anywhere to be found until Vergeben popped up, and it wasn’t until we dived deeper into Castlevania until we figured out why he was added and became likely because of that.

End rant.
You're taking this way more seriously than you should.

Also, you think I just want old characters because they're old? **** no. I had no feelings towards Little Mac and Mega Man in Smash 4. I want older characters because I LIKE them too. Just like you with newer ones. I like more old characters than new. Therefore, I want more old characters than newer characters. It's not difficult to understand. Does that mean I don't want any newer characters? Not at all. You kids don't understand what it's like to wait so long for things you've wanted. At this point I'm happy with the roster but I want everyone who's waited for a long ass time to finally get what they've wanted.
 

T-Hell

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I'm both looking forward to and dreading the final roster reveal.

Looking forward to it so that the excitement and anxiousness of who's in is finally over.

Dreading it because it sadly will not make everyone happy, and even I myself will probably be bummed out by some of the still to come de-confirmations. Since I've gotten most of what I wanted already, my biggest hope for the roster at this point is that other people can get what they want and the game makes as many people happy as possible. I personally don't care if a character is old or new, as long as they're fun and I like 'em that's good enough for me. I'd like a balance of new and old so that both sides can be happy. :)
I'm already 100% happy with the roster so anyone else is a plus. And rest assured I still have beloved characters left, including one that has already been deconfirmed.
 

Dukeofdeath5

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Exactly.
the base roster is the only chance some of these characters get.
And we don't like them because they're new, we like them because we like them.
Sorry, I agreed with you so much I basically just tldr'd your post
But don't go thinking people only want old schools cause they're retro old schools and cause of Nostalgia as you've branded it.

They like they cause like them, they've liked them for a solid decade infact, and if there's any chance they have at getting in because they clearly weren't given the shot in melee to Sm4sh, it's this game
 
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Nethermoosen

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Considering Smash 4 was focused almost entirely on the new, I'm totally fine with this game focusing on the old.
If they get all the old out of the way, older gamers won’t have much to worry about and younger gamers can look forward to the rest. Seems like a good deal to me.
 

Noipoi

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Simon Belmont was quite popular. I think his support spiked because Snake returned and a Bomberman AT showed up. And calm yo **** cause you are allowed to like new stuff. We lovers of old skool characters and things got majorly screwed over last game. Let us have our hype. Lest we forget that the INKLINGS where the first shown newcomers?
I'm ecstatic Inklings are in, I truly am, Splatoon is one of favorite Nintendo series and it's only three years old.
But I like more characters than inkling, and I don't like being told they should be pushed aside because they weren't on the Super Nintendo.
 

PSIguy89

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I felt like we got plenty of “newer” characters last game. I’d still love to see an ARMS rep, and Elma! Zenoblade is a newer IP for Nintendo that seems to be doing quite well for itself. Also for me persononally, when seeing an older character make it in, it gives me hope that they will be brought back into the modern day for their series! (ie K Rool)
 

Dixie Kong

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Only new character I want is Elma. Otherwise, give me Dixie, Banjo, Rayman, Impa, Tails, Shadow, Dr. Eggman, Dr. Willy, Tiny Kong, Cranky Kong, Blaziken, Earthworm Jim, Pyramid Head, Shantae, etc. etc.
 

Noipoi

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But don't go thinking people only want old schools cause they're retro old schools and cause of Nostalgia as you've branded it.

They like they cause like them, they've liked them for a solid decade infact, and if there's any chance they have at getting in because they clearly weren't given the shot in melee to Sm4sh, it's this game
I'm not saying people only like old characters because of Nostalgia, i'm sure they truly love the character.
But I don't think it's fair to tell people their character will have to sit this game out because it's 90s time.
 

Dukeofdeath5

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Only new character I want is Elma. Otherwise, give me Dixie, Banjo, Rayman, Impa, Tails, Shadow, Dr. Eggman, Dr. Willy, Tiny Kong, Cranky Kong, Blaziken, Earthworm Jim, Pyramid Head, Shantae, etc. etc.
I find it hilarious Pyramid Head appears prior to Shantae on that list
 

Enchess

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Old characters will always be there. Characters like Elma only have on shot because we know Rex & Pyra will be dlc.
Base roster is the only chance some characters get.
If this is the only chance for a new character, that is an admission the character isn't lasting, which makes me question if they deserve to get in in the first place.

For the record, I think Shulk would've made it in Ultimate if he didn't in Sm4sh and Inklings would definitely have a shot in next Smash if they didn't already make it in Ultimate. Because those are fantastic characters from fantastic games that won't be forgotten. Time will tell on new characters, but so far the only one I don't think will have a shot at another Smash is Springman, which I don't want him in just because he's not memorable enough to make it in future
 

Dukeofdeath5

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I'm not saying people only like old characters because of Nostalgia, i'm sure they truly love the character.
But I don't think it's fair to tell people their character will have to sit this game out because it's 90s time.
I don't think that's what people are being told. I think people are being told their character will have to sit this game out because it's character who have already been sitting smash games out for a long ass time despite strong as hell fan support.... time

those picks just so happen to be retro.
 

osby

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I don't think anyone is saying there can't be balance. It's just that Smash 4 focused more so on the new, so fans of the old felt left out a little, and are happy to be catered to a bit more this time around.
I mean, newer characters are only added with each game, if they are lucky. We get old characters in every game. Smash 4 added at least four unique newcomers just from Nintendo, from pre-Wii era.
Ultimate is "I hope you like Splatoon!" so far.
 
D

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And if people want a non-1st gen Pokemon just because...

View attachment 160172

Gothitelle for Smash! Doesn’t matter if she’s a literally who, twofer token minority representation matters more!
456.PNG

You can want it, but...

I h a v e w r o t e y o u r n a m e o n m y n a u g h t y l i s t .
All of a sudden I miss the FE and Rex/Pyra conversations.
Let me guess, was it about Pyra censorship? The Fire Emblem conversation is hard to guess, because it is so diverse. Black Knight, FEH, Hector and all of that.
Mythra > Pyra
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Ghirahim fans said they liked him more than just being the flavor of the month, but their support didn't continue until now
Um what? Ghirahim fans still want ghirahim, they just realize the reality that the chance that he will actually get in now is lesser, doesn't mean they like him any less or were bandwagon liking him because others were
 

Nethermoosen

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Old characters will always be there. Characters like Elma only have on shot because we know Rex & Pyra will be dlc.
Base roster is the only chance some characters get.
Uh....we’ve thought that since 64. Look at K. Rool. Look at Ridley. Chrom was left out of Smash 4. Bowser Jr. and the koopalings didn’t make Brawl.

If there is demand, then maybe 3 games later or more. Haha. Just saying. We all know how it feels. I was an advocate of K. Rool for centuries...sounds right? Advocate of Skull Kid. Advocate of Ray MK II. He’ll never be in. I wanted Banjo since 64. Still no sign.

It sucks and we know how you feel, man.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Um what? Ghirahim fans still want ghirahim, they just realize the reality that the chance that he will actually get in now is lesser, doesn't mean they like him any less or were bandwagon liking him because others were
The Ridley fandom kept him up when even Sakurai said "He's too big for Smash"
 
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Noipoi

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If this is the only chance for a new character, that is an admission the character isn't lasting, which makes me question if they deserve to get in in the first place.

For the record, I think Shulk would've made it in Ultimate if he didn't in Sm4sh and Inklings would definitely have a shot in next Smash if they didn't already make it in Ultimate. Because those are fantastic characters from fantastic games that won't be forgotten. Time will tell on new characters, but so far the only one I don't think will have a shot at another Smash is Springman, which I don't want him in just because he's not memorable enough to make it in future
To be fair, it's kinda like Pokemon or Fire Emblem.
Most series have a recurring cast that show up every game. Mario, Peach, Bowser. Sonic, Tails, Eggman. etc.
But series like Pokemon, Fire Emblem or in this case Xenoblade are different. Those games get a new cast of characters every game, and the old ones are quickly outdated with only a few standing the test of time like Charizard and Lucario.
That's why Ultimate is the only chance these characters get, because in a year they'll be replaced by a whole new cast.
 
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osby

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If this is the only chance for a new character, that is an admission the character isn't lasting, which makes me question if they deserve to get in in the first place.

For the record, I think Shulk would've made it in Ultimate if he didn't in Sm4sh and Inklings would definitely have a shot in next Smash if they didn't already make it in Ultimate. Because those are fantastic characters from fantastic games that won't be forgotten. Time will tell on new characters, but so far the only one I don't think will have a shot at another Smash is Springman, which I don't want him in just because he's not memorable enough to make it in future
To be honest, we did get such characters in the past, like Jigglypuff or Sheik. I don't think it's outrageous for contemporary fans to want the same.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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If this is the only chance for a new character, that is an admission the character isn't lasting, which makes me question if they deserve to get in in the first place.

For the record, I think Shulk would've made it in Ultimate if he didn't in Sm4sh and Inklings would definitely have a shot in next Smash if they didn't already make it in Ultimate. Because those are fantastic characters from fantastic games that won't be forgotten. Time will tell on new characters, but so far the only one I don't think will have a shot at another Smash is Springman, which I don't want him in just because he's not memorable enough to make it in future
"Deserve" is a pretty subjective term. There are tons of smash characters I think don't "deserve" to be in, but they just had the right timing. Doesn't mean they don't have fans who love them.

People like who they like and everyone should get a chance at having their favorite in smash. Yay.

ALSO implying ARMS won't be a continuing Nintendo series. You make me sad!

The Ridley fandom kept him up even though even Sakurai said "He's too big for Smash"
But Rildey has been a continuous character in the series and so it has always made sense to bring him up and hope he's in this time. Girhiam doesn't have that and so his fans aren't able to be as hopeful....also isn't he deconfirmed already? Because then yea that's the logical thing to do is to lose hope and excitement for your characters chances. If he's not deconfirmed then whoops thought he was.
 
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PsychoIncarnate

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If the character DOESN'T get in, are you willing to spend the next 12 years of your life petitioning for the character to get into Smash Bros all the while being mocked by people saying the character was from an irrelevant game or was a one shot in a series with many characters? Like so many other fandoms like K Rool and Ridley

Or do you just want the character in now so they can potentially be grandfathered into the next Smash game.
 

Nethermoosen

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To be fair, it's kinda like Pokemon or Fire Emblem.
Most series have a recurring cast that show up every game. Mario, Peach Bowser. Sonic, Tails, Eggman. etc.
But series like Pokemon, Fire Emblem or in this case Xenoblade are different. Those games get a new cast of characters every game, and the old ones are quickly outdated with only a few standing the test of time like Charizard and Lucario.
That's why Ultimate is the only chance these characters get, because in a year they'll be replaced by a whole new cast.
You mean like K. Rool? Or Cloud? Or Chrom? Or Simon? Or Richter?
 

DarkFalcon

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It's not impossible for a newer character to miss out and them not make it in the next game, or even DLC. If you think they won't have a chance again in the future then maybe they shouldn't have been a consideration in the first place.

Look at Chrom. Everyone thought he'd be in Smash 4. He didn't make the cut, but despite being in an outdated game at this point he still got in due to fan demand. If a character has constant fan support over the years they'll always have a chance. (Yes he's an echo, but if you change the argument to that then you're moving the goalposts)

Eventually these newer characters will turn into older characters and as you keep supporting them in later Smash games you guys will understand why we choose older characters to be represented. You younger kids don't know what it's like to have someone you root for skipped on game after game. You can't understand, you haven't experienced it.

Moral of the story is you keep fighting for who you support. They aren't always fortunate enough to make it, so keep fighting for them.
 
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ChocolatGelgato

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New characters fit very well into DLC, they will make more money/market stuff better than old characters (I have to stress that nintendo wants money and smash makes a lot) and they can be added in quicker to reflect the recency of those games better.

It's also worth noting that 2015/2016, when the roster was being chosen, was a pretty ****ty time for nintendo games, really only splatoon was out there truly proving it's clout as a great game until 2017 and the switch hit. We're talking about the time of classic nintendo hits like Paper Mario colour splash, Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival and Star Fox Zero.
 
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NessSaysOkay

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um... you sure these are retro chars? K.Rool appeared 13 years ago in his own series, 10 if you count Mario, and Simon 8 years ago. Not super irrelevant at all.
 
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osby

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If the character DOESN'T get in, are you willing to spend the next 12 years of your life petitioning for the character to get into Smash Bros all the while being mocked by people saying the character was from an irrelevant game or was a one shot in a series with many characters? Like so many other fandoms like K Rool and Ridley

Or do you just want the character in now so they can potentially be grandfathered into the next Smash game.
Wow, I didn't know rules of supporting characters in Smash was so strict.
 

Noipoi

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If the character DOESN'T get in, are you willing to spend the next 12 years of your life petitioning for the character to get into Smash Bros all the while being mocked by people saying the character was from an irrelevant game or was a one shot in a series with many characters? Like so many other fandoms like K Rool and Ridley

Or do you just want the character in now so they can potentially be grandfathered into the next Smash game.
I'm already making Ashley for Smashley posters.
Is the 12 year wait mandatory, or can I squeeze it to around 7?
I need to know the regulations for this.
 
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Enchess

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To be fair, it's kinda like Pokemon or Fire Emblem.
Most series have a recurring cast that show up every game. Mario, Peach Bowser. Sonic, Tails, Eggman. etc.
But series like Pokemon, Fire Emblem or in this case Xenoblade are different. Those games get a new cast of characters every game, and the old ones are quickly outdated with only a few standing the test of time like Charizard and Lucario.
That's why Ultimate is the only chance these characters get, because in a year they'll be replaced by a whole new cast.
Pokemon is a weird exception. I'd say Fire Emblem too, but we got 3 Awakening characters somehow. Xenoblade I really believe we were always gonna get Shulk first no matter when the series got added to Smash.

But new franchises like ARMS or Splatoon? If this is their only chance they never deserves to be in at all (Splatoon has proven itself not to be a fad, ARMS I'm not convinced)
 

TMNTSSB4

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To be fair, it's kinda like Pokemon or Fire Emblem.
Most series have a recurring cast that show up every game. Mario, Peach Bowser. Sonic, Tails, Eggman. etc.
But series like Pokemon, Fire Emblem or in this case Xenoblade are different. Those games get a new cast of characters every game, and the old ones are quickly outdated with only a few standing the test of time like Charizard and Lucario.
That's why Ultimate is the only chance these characters get, because in a year they'll be replaced by a whole new cast.
Young, Shiny, and Important vs Old, Dirty, and Worthless...or whoever is more popular (either works)
ALSO implying ARMS won't be a continuing Nintendo series. You make me sad!
I assume you like/love ARMS
Mythra > Pyra
7CB4D29E-CAA5-4E07-953B-9DF028F9E865.gif
 

Paperchampion23

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I think we all just need to learn to be positive even through disappointment. If your favorite character gets in from this point on, celebrate and don't take it for granted. If they don't, celebrate with others who got theirs in and appreciate that the roster is somehow bigger than the day before.

I think people just need to learn that going forward. If not, it's going to be an ugly 3 months for you if you don't get what you want in the end
 

MoonlitIllusion

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It's not impossible for a newer character to miss out and them not make it in the next game, or even DLC. If you think they won't have a chance again in the future then maybe they shouldn't have been a consideration in the first place.

Look at Chrom. Everyone thought he'd be in Smash 4. He didn't make the cut, but despite being in an outdated game at this point he still got in due to fan demand. If a character has constant fan support over the years they'll always have a chance. (Yes he's an echo, but if you change the argument to that then you're moving the goalposts)

Eventually these newer characters will turn into older characters and as you keep supporting them in later Smash games you guys will understand why we choose older characters to be represented. You younger kids don't know what it's like to have someone you root for skipped on game after game. You can't understand, you haven't experienced it.

Moral of the story is you keep fighting for who you support. They aren't always fortunate enough to make it, so keep fighting for them.
Chrom is just a clone though, he was an easy, somewhat popular addition, it's not like he's comparable to Elma or anything like that
 
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