Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[StormC]

Considering Smash 4 was focused almost entirely on the new, I'm totally fine with this game focusing on the old.

 

[Noipoi]

This is where the split between newer fans and older fans starts rearing its head. I'm not even that old, I'm 23, but I still want a lot of the older characters to finally make it in the game because fans have been asking for years. If Ultimate is that one game where we finally get what we want at the expense of newer characters? Sign me up. Maybe it'll get younger people to check out those older games.

But it doesn't have to be this way, one side doesn't have to be left out.
You can have new and old favorites, balance is key.

 

[Deleted member]

Simon, Richter and K. Rool are the only newcomers I can think of that are designed to appeal to old-school fans. Other than that, the newcomers are from game franchises that are still ongoing and the characters are still in the newer stuff: Inkling, Ridley, Daisy, and Chrom are still used in new stuff from their respective franchises, and Dark Samus is from the 2000's era, where most of the current Smash fandom seems to come from. I personally don't think this game has focused too much on old stuff per se, but rather seems to be picking stuff from all over Nintendo's history rather than just the newest of the new like Smash 4 did (with exceptions, of course).

 

[Noipoi]

Considering Smash 4 was focused almost entirely on the new, I'm totally fine with this game focusing on the old.

You say that because you have old favorites, but what if you didn't?
What if you were born in 2001? What if you really started gaming in 2010? What if all you're favorite characters were from that era?
I'm not saying old characters shouldn't get attention, quite the contrary actually, i'm glad characters like K Rool are back. But there should always be balance between new and old characters.
there's no need to pick sides here, both young and new players could get what they want.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

But it doesn't have to be this way, one side doesn't have to be left out.
You can have new and old favorites, balance is key.

And here's where we're gonna have to bite the bullet and be a bit cynical.

Spots are finite.

If new school characters get in, it will be over an old school one. And vice versa.

People (and I'm not saying it's me, but people I understand) would rather have a full on fan service sploog of old school and not loose out on anybody to have a token new schools. Just as others would rather have some of their favorite new schools than an old school they've never heard of.

They're never gonna get along.

 

[DarkFalcon]

But it doesn't have to be this way, one side doesn't have to be left out.
You can have new and old favorites, balance is key.

Older fans have been left out for ages. Smash 4 had a lot of focus on recent characters, with only a couple older retro characters. Inklings were the very first thing we knew about this game and they're a newer major IP. Sorry youngins, but I prefer mostly old characters this time around. We've been hungry for years. Even if you don't get who you want that's nothing compared to what we've felt for game after game. You still have DLC.

 

[Noipoi]

Alright, screw the kids I guess.

 

[StormC]

It's not like younger fans can't play older games though. The NES Mega Man games were well underway by the time I was born, but I eventually played them and Mega Man became my most wanted Smash character after K. Rool. I was born in 1991 but some of my favorite anime are from the 80s. I sorta feel like you only have yourself to blame if you aren't a fan of these properties. I have never played a Classicvania before Simon's reveal but I still think he was a really cool addition that brought a lot to the series, and now I'm playing Super Castlevania IV and Rondo Of Blood.

 

[Pakky]

Alright, screw the kids I guess.

Well, maybe the ones with certain meme tastes.
But people should want, what they want.

Though the older cats HAVE waited a LONG time. almost 2 decades.

And kids get to see some of the old stuff and fall in love with it like the older crowd already has.

 

[Noipoi]

It's not like younger fans can't play older games though. The NES Mega Man games were well underway by the time I was born, but I eventually played them and Mega Man became my most wanted Smash character after K. Rool. I was born in 1991 but some of my favorite anime are from the 80s. I sorta feel like you only have yourself to blame if you aren't a fan of these properties. I have never played a Classicvania before Simon's reveal but I still think he was a really cool addition that brought a lot to the series, and now I'm playing Super Castlevania IV and Rondo Of Blood.

Buddy, I don't have disposable income. I can't go around buying any game I want, I gotta be particular about which games I buy because those will be the only games I get for a year. I literally don't have the money to become a fan of all these properties.

 

[osby]

It's not like younger fans can't play older games though. The NES Mega Man games were well underway by the time I was born, but I eventually played them and Mega Man became my most wanted Smash character after K. Rool. I was born in 1991 but some of my favorite anime are from the 80s. I sorta feel like you only have yourself to blame if you aren't a fan of these properties. I have never played a Classicvania before Simon's reveal but I still think he was a really cool addition that brought a lot to the series, and now I'm playing Super Castlevania IV and Rondo Of Blood.

Older fans can play new games a lot easier and it didn't prevent any complaints last game.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno why it can't be a balance of both.

Gimme Octolings AND Geno. Springman AND Isaac.

That's just me, though. I know this stuff is super subjective to personal opinion.

 

[Noipoi]

I dunno why it can't be a balance of both.

Gimme Octolings AND Geno. Springman AND Isaac.

That's just me, though. I know this stuff is super subjective to personal opinion.

It is subjective, but it's an objective fact that there can be a balance.
I don't know why everyone thinks the game can only be old characters or new characters when that's not the case at all.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Buddy, I don't have disposable income. I can't go around buying any game I want, I gotta be particular about which games I buy because those will be the only games I get for a year. I literally don't have the money to become a fan of all these properties.

I thought you whippersnappers were smarter than us at the whole roming thing.

I've got a much younger cousin that hacked Melee into his WiiU and I still can't figure it out on my Wii

 

[Soulsaint]

Actually I'm pretty sure the ballot was super interested in finding out what girls wanted.

It's why they had a gender option in the ballot.

But if that's the case, who did they vote for?

I voted Shovel Knight, but to be fair, there is a gender toggle for him.

Also he's a fish,so

 

[osby]

Older fans have been left out for ages. Smash 4 had a lot of focus on recent characters, with only a couple older retro characters. Inklings were the very first thing we knew about this game and they're a newer major IP. Sorry youngins, but I prefer mostly old characters this time around. We've been hungry for years. Even if you don't get who you want that's nothing compared to what we've felt for game after game. You still have DLC.

A couple of retro characters is a weird way of saying Villager, Koopalings and Bowser Jr., Little Mac, Duck Hunt and all except one of the guest fighters.

 

[Noipoi]

I thought you whippersnappers were smarter than us at the whole roming thing.

I've got a much younger cousin that hacked Melee into his WiiU and I still can't figure it out on my Wii

I don't hack my consoles, i'm not some raving anti-pirater but I like giving money to people who make my games.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

A couple of retro characters is a weird way of saying Villager, Koopalings and Bowser Jr., Little Mac, Duck Hunt and all except one of the guest fighters.

....... Villager is considered retro?

 

[Noipoi]

....... Villager is considered retro?

Villager is from 1976. Animal Crossing was created right after Pong.

 

[osby]

....... Villager is considered retro?

I mean, he was in Gamecube, he certainly isn't a character picked out of youngness.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah, apparently if you were born after the snes era your favorites don't matter.
Well, that's jumping the gun a bit. We haven't seen all the newcomers, but if we don't get someone from after the 90s besides Inkling i'm gonna feel a little left out.
Even a new Pokemon will do for me. Sure it's generic and expected but it was created after I was born.

You want characters that debuted after 1990s ended?

Melee


Brawl


SSB4
ultrosalina:

Ultimate


You even got 3 newcomers from 2000s and 2010s. Left out? Hmm...

Also, most of the characters from the 1980s and 1990s are still getting new games in 2000s and 2010s... so people born after the SNES era ended still grew up with the characters older than themselves.

 

[StormC]

It is subjective, but it's an objective fact that there can be a balance.
I don't know why everyone thinks the game can only be old characters or new characters when that's not the case at all.

Well, which of need to be cut to make room for a new character?

In the event of "not too many newcomers," adding characters most wanted by the Smash fanbase over the last 20 years makes sense. You're acting like the roster is done and this is all we're getting, when we could still be getting something like Bandana Dee or a new Pokemon.

 

[MBRedboy31]

It’s worth noting that Masterpieces are a thing in Smash games (no way to know if they’re returning or not in Ultimate, nothing preventing them from returning though) so newer fans can at least get a taste of the old games.

One thing though about some (not all) new characters is that, if they don’t get in on relevancy / advertisement, they’ll never get another chance while old fan favorite characters will always have a chance, so some cool movesets could be missed out on.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I want new characters too but I prefer them as DLC this time around. Plus some of the newer IP's like ARMS are probably too new to make it in the base roster. I'm not saying we can't have newer characters. We already do with Inklings, but if unique newcomers really are limited this time around then I think the priority should go to old favorites over new in the base game.

It doesn't mean if someone like Elma was revealed I wouldn't be happy. I never played X but I still want her in the game. Rex and Pyra too but I feel they're too recent.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

As exspected

So maybe we will get a general direct in September for the next reveal since the drought is over

 

[Noipoi]

Well, which of need to be cut to make room for a new character?

In the event of "not too many newcomers," adding characters most wanted by the Smash fanbase over the last 20 years makes sense. You're acting like the roster is done and this is all we're getting, when we could still be getting something like Bandana Dee or a new Pokemon.

None of them need to be cut, why would they need to be cut?
And I know we're getting new still characters, i'm talking about the people here with their strange "ONLY OLD. NO ROOM FOR NEW. NO BALANCE." mantra.
i'm not worried about Sakurai or the rest of the roster, he knows what he's doing.

 

[T-Hell]

Can we just not turn Smash into some kind of political or social agenda, please?

I'm hoping for one! While I personally was completely satisfied by E3, I know there are people hoping for more announcements. I myself would really like an Animal Crossing announcement.

Same. I was convinced that they would announce Animal Crossing at E3. I can't wait to see AC switch.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Other than Dillon, there is no real newer IP characters that I really care about. They can get in, they can't. Don't care.

 

[Noipoi]

I want new characters too but I prefer them as DLC this time around. Plus some of the newer IP's like ARMS are probably too new to make it in the base roster. I'm not saying we can't have newer characters. We already do with Inklings, but if unique newcomers really are limited this time around then I think the priority should go to old favorites over new in the base game.

It doesn't mean if someone like Elma was revealed I wouldn't be happy. I never played X but I still want her in the game. Rex and Pyra too but I feel they're too recent.

Old characters will always be there. Characters like Elma only have on shot because we know Rex & Pyra will be dlc.
Base roster is the only chance some characters get.

 

[Diddy Kong]

"That certain group of people" is half the planet dude.

More than it in fact. Doesn't matter tho. Don't expect Smash to change it's male-female ratio if Nintendo also doesn't. A female character doesn't automatically make a better character.

 

[DarkFalcon]

None of them need to be cut, why would they need to be cut?
And I know we're getting new still characters, i'm talking about the people here with their strange "ONLY OLD. NO ROOM FOR NEW. NO BALANCE." mantra.
i'm not worried about Sakurai or the rest of the roster, he knows what he's doing.

I think you're misinterpreting what I've been saying. I'm not saying no new at all. I'm saying if there's limited slots for unique newcomers then I'd much prefer old over new. Like, if there's 8 unique in total I'd take 6 old to 2 new over 50/50. I'm not gonna pick balance for the sake of balance.

It's not like people aren't gonna buy the game if the rest of the roster isn't who they want (barring one person lol).

 

[StormC]

None of them need to be cut, why would they need to be cut?
And I know we're getting new still characters, i'm talking about the people here with their strange "ONLY OLD. NO ROOM FOR NEW. NO BALANCE." mantra.
i'm not worried about Sakurai or the rest of the roster, he knows what he's doing.

Saying there needs to be a balance between old and new implies it's currently unbalanced and some of the old characters should make room for new ones.

Really the issue comes down to timing. There was very little new stuff to promote around the December 2015 design document. Xenoblade Chronicles X, Rhythm Heaven Megamix, the looming gen 7... the ballot seemed designed to be the backbone of the next Smash game due to lack of new properties.

If literally the last characters are like, Banjo-Kazooie, Isaac, and Geno, it will make for some interesting reactions.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I think you're misinterpreting what I've been saying. I'm not saying no new at all. I'm saying if there's limited slots for unique newcomers then I'd much prefer old over new. Like, if there's 8 unique in total I'd take 6 old to 2 new over 50/50. I'm not gonna pick balance for the sake of balance.

It's not like people aren't gonna buy the game if the rest of the roster isn't who they want (barring one person lol).

Speak for yourself, if Qbert doesn't make it in I'm keeping my money to myself thank you very much

 

[Diddy Kong]

Agreed. Don't get me wrong, I'd actually love to see the envelope pushed even further, but it's definitely headed in the right direction. After counting alts and what not, we've got about 21 females. Hell of a boost from Brawl's 4 or so.

I say keep it coming. Elma, Dixie, Micaiah, Octolings, Medusa Pyra(& Rex), Edelgard.. Any of them would be sweet.

EDIT: How could I forget Isabelle??

The problem is that you forgot Impa.

 

[RandomAce]

You still have DLC.

THIS, this is where I feel some of you are at fault when it comes to these things.

I don’t want more recent characters because their recent. I and many others, want them because we like them and want to them to get in as soon as possible.

There’s a reason why I and many others pushing characters like Elma and Lycanroc (whatever Gen 7 Pokémon) for the base roster. THEY’RE UNLIKELY FOR DLC. If Elma doesn’t get in the base roster she will likely get brushed aside for Rex and Pyra, and I don’t like them as much as Elma. If Lycanroc (or whatever Gen 7 Pokémon) do not get in, they might be brushed aside with who knows what Gen 8 Pokémon that I don’t know if I like as much as Lycanroc.

STOP GENERALIZING PEOPLE’S WANTS AND BRUSH THEM ASIDE. At least with characters like Geno and Isaac they had multiple chances and were becoming more and more likely over time. Elma and Lycanroc only have ONE safe shot at making the roster, and have had fans that pushed for them. This doesn’t mean we can want whatever character because they’re recent, WE WANT THEM BECAUSE WE LIKE THEM.

You guys in Smashboards are EXTREMISTS and are so narrow minded in the sense that it has there is one rule that is the end to be all.

“IT HAS TO BE POPULARITY”, “IT HAS TO BE _____!”

NO IT’S NOT! Newsflash, stop looking at newcomers through one ****ing lense and instead look through multiple angles, and if you want a rule, then it’s moveset potential, can the character be unique. Was popular? No, he wasn’t anywhere to be found until Vergeben popped up, and it wasn’t until we dived deeper into Castlevania until we figured out why he was added and became likely because of that. Why does it have to be different for someone else?

End rant.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

THIS, this is where I feel some of you are at fault when it comes to these things.

I don’t want more recent characters because their recent. I and many others, want them because we like them and want to them to get in as soon as possible.

There’s a reason why I and many others pushing characters like Elma and Lycanroc (whatever Gen 7 Pokémon) for the base roster. THEY’RE UNLIKELY FOR DLC. If Elma doesn’t get in the base roster she will likely get brushed aside for Rex and Pyra, and I don’t like them as much as Elma. If Lycanroc (or whatever Gen 7 Pokémon) do not get in, they might be brushed aside with who knows what Gen 8 Pokémon that I don’t know if I like as much as Lycanroc.

STOP GENERALIZING PEOPLE’S WANTS AND BRUSH THEM ASIDE. At least with characters like Geno and Isaac they had multiple chances and were becoming more and more likely over time. Elma and Lycanroc only have ONE safe shot at making the roster, and have had fans that pushed for them. This doesn’t mean we can want whatever character because they’re recent, WE WANT THEM BECAUSE WE LIKE THEM.

You guys in Smashboards are EXTREMISTS and are so narrow minded in the sense that it has there is one rule that is the end to be all.

“IT HAS TO BE POPULARITY”, “IT HAS TO BE _____!”

NO IT’S NOT! Newsflash, stop looking at newcomers through one ****ing lense and instead look through multiple angles. Was popular? No, he wasn’t anywhere to be found until Vergeben popped up, and it wasn’t until we dived deeper into Castlevania until we figured out why he was added and became likely because of that.

End rant.

If a character only has 1 chance to get in, are they REALLY that important?

Just because they are the new flavor of the month?

 

[StormC]

You guys in Smashboards are EXTREMISTS and are so narrow minded in the sense that it has there is one rule that is the end to be all.

Those damn boomer extremists, waging war on the poor zoomers.

 

[Pakky]

The problem is that you forgot Impa.

Is Impa too big for smash?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm both looking forward to and dreading the final roster reveal.

Looking forward to it so that the excitement and anxiousness of who's in is finally over.

Dreading it because it sadly will not make everyone happy, and even I myself will probably be bummed out by some of the still to come de-confirmations. Since I've gotten most of what I wanted already, my biggest hope for the roster at this point is that other people can get what they want and the game makes as many people happy as possible. I personally don't care if a character is old or new, as long as they're fun and I like 'em that's good enough for me. I'd like a balance of new and old so that both sides can be happy.

 

[Noipoi]

THIS, this is where I feel some of you are at fault when it comes to these things.

I don’t want more recent characters because their recent. I and many others, want them because we like them and want to them to get in as soon as possible.

There’s a reason why I and many others pushing characters like Elma and Lycanroc (whatever Gen 7 Pokémon) for the base roster. THEY’RE UNLIKELY FOR DLC. If Elma doesn’t get in the base roster she will likely get brushed aside for Rex and Pyra, and I don’t like them as much as Elma. If Lycanroc (or whatever Gen 7 Pokémon) do not get in, they might be brushed aside with who knows what Gen 8 Pokémon that I don’t know if I like as much as Lycanroc.

STOP GENERALIZING PEOPLE’S WANTS AND BRUSH THEM ASIDE. At least with characters like Geno and Isaac they had multiple chances and were becoming more and more likely over time. Elma and Lycanroc only have ONE safe shot at making the roster, and have had fans that pushed for them. This doesn’t mean we can want whatever character because they’re recent, WE WANT THEM BECAUSE WE LIKE THEM.

You guys in Smashboards are EXTREMISTS and are so narrow minded in the sense that it has there is one rule that is the end to be all.

“IT HAS TO BE POPULARITY”, “IT HAS TO BE _____!”

NO IT’S NOT! Newsflash, stop looking at newcomers through one ****ing lense and instead look through multiple angles. Was popular? No, he wasn’t anywhere to be found until Vergeben popped up, and it wasn’t until we dived deeper into Castlevania until we figured out why he was added and became likely because of that.

End rant.

Exactly.
the base roster is the only chance some of these characters get.
And we don't like them because they're new, we like them because we like them.

Spoiler

Sorry, I agreed with you so much I basically just tldr'd your post