Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MainJPW]

What if Sonic has been going slower for Tails cause they both know he’s too fast?

As far as the backstory sure. I'm mostly talking gameplay. in Sonic 2 and 3 the run at the same speed. Sonic is slightly faster than everyone in Mania. In the Advance titles Sonic and Tails can Boost, in Rivals 2 they run at the same speed. Even in Adventure Tails is obviously fast as ****.

Tails is just fast in general so I don't see the problem with him keeping the same speed.

 

[ArkhaosZero]

How the heck Sakurai doesn't considered Dr. Mario as an echo of Mario?
The same applies for Fox and Falco.

Any differences in moveset?

Well, Fox and Falco are pretty thoroughly decloned. They only share a hand full of moves nowadays, and that's about it.

As for Mario v Dr. Mario, there's a couple things to consider. The main purpose of Echo's are that they're an easy addition that can be balanced against the original character. That last part is the most important one, because balance is a multiplicative issue. The more unique characters, the more difficult it is to balance. Dark Samus and Samus share the majority of qualities, so if one is overpowered, the other will almost surely be as well, and you can nerf both at the same time (and vice versa). You could see that in Smash 4 patches, where Lucina received all the same changes that Marth did.

Secondly, we don't know all of Dr. Mario's moveset at the moment, but we know he's at least got his Dair changed. It's possible that he has more to further differentiate him from Mario. But even if not, all of his specials have different properties altogether, in addition to stat changes (weight, speed, strength). Stat changes are more fundamental changes to the character, and as such you could no longer balance Dr. Mario against Mario. It's possible that Mario could have a combo that makes him broken that doesn't exist on Dr. Mario due to KBG, damage, etc.. so nerfing both in the same wouldn't work.

 

[Roberto zampari]

I got a feeling that IF Shantae is in the game, then she will be shown in this Nindie for Switch Direct 28th of August.

I don't believe that Smash Bros Ultimate would be in Nindies direct.
I believe that the next Nintendo direct would be in October, showing the mysterious green event.

 

[Jetsurge]

I just want to leave this here and remind everyone how far we've come

I hope we see a scene similar to this in the final game, it's just so ominous and I'd like to see it used before a final challenge of whatever that spirits mode is.

Ahhhhh the days of Springman, Rex, Decidueye and Crash predictions.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

As far as the backstory sure. I'm mostly talking gameplay. in Sonic 2 and 3 the run at the same speed. Sonic is slightly faster than everyone in Mania. In the Advance titles Sonic and Tails can Boost, in Rivals 2 they run at the same speed. Even in Adventure Tails is obviously fast as ****.

Tails is just fast in general so I don't see the problem with him keeping the same speed.

I only mean gameplay. Sure he’s the fastest thing alive overall, but what if he just ies him due to being younger, less cool, and feels like if he goes at his slowest running speed Tails will start to gain speed...practically training him to become as fast as he can through hard work and determination so that when he dies, someone can take his place as the fastest thing alive?

Or you know...what you said instead

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't believe that Smash Bros Ultimate would be in Nindies direct.
I believe that the next Nintendo direct would be in October, showing the mysterious green event.

We're most likely getting something next month. The new online service is coming out then.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I don't believe that Smash Bros Ultimate would be in Nindies direct.
I believe that the next Nintendo direct would be in October, showing the mysterious green event.

Ridley is too big, and K Rool is irrelevant.
Things change. We can't go by delusional patterns.
I'm not saying anywhere near that there are 100% chance of this happening, but there is also a fact of it having a 100% of it "not" happening.
It's crazy how Ultimate/Special is throwing us for a loop.

Our first Indie content for Smash was just shown, opening the gates for indie content, and why not just a small trailer at the end of the indie direct, as they did in the previous game? It would give us something to go on, and it's a first time for everything.

Also, to actually comment on the next direct. I do agree that the next one will be the one who will mainly focus on the "Green" mode.

 

[BlueMagician]

Some people were guessing there'd be a Direct just because of the Tokyo Game Show next month

 

[PeridotGX]

Ahhhhh the days of Springman, Rex, Decidueye and Crash predictions.

Yeah, we were all very wrong. Let me pull up my Pre-E3 roster.

I haven't gotten a single one right so far and 3 (Practically 4) are discomnfirmed.

 

[MainJPW]

I only mean gameplay.

Is there a reason for him to constantly be running at the speed of light during gameplay though?

Sure he’s the fastest thing alive overall, but what if he just ies him due to being younger, less cool, and feels like if he goes at his slowest running speed Tails will start to gain speed...practically training him to become as fast as he can through hard work and determination so that when he dies, someone can take his place as the fastest thing alive?

Or you know...what you said instead

Sonic training Tails to be his successor? I like the sound of that. That makes sense with Tails becoming more independent in the Adventure games by beating Eggman by himself... until you remember that garbage Forces where he can't even fight Chaos 0 despite beating Chaos 4 in Adventure.

 

[Opossum]

Ahhhhh the days of Springman, Rex, Decidueye and Crash predictions.

At least three of those four have a decent shot at DLC.

Poor Decidueye though. :/ My bird.

 

[CroonerMike]

So...where is that Gamescom reveal. It’s Sunday, my dudes.

 

[MainJPW]

So...where is that Gamescom reveal. It’s Sunday, my dudes.

What reveal?

 

[DraginHikari]

Catching up lol

Man, Shulk looks so friggin rad in XC2.

Had to grind a bit, but he's finally in my hands.
Aaack, I can't believe the only way for me to see Monado Purge and Cyclone and Buster is in a game I don't even like.

Why, Sakurai.
Did any Shulk fans seriously want him to play like this
View attachment 159808

I never had a problem how Shulk was portrayed in Smash Bros. Even if it differed from the source material it still made for unique and interesting fighter regardless. I was just happy enough that he was there for me to main in Smash 4 frankly.

That's what I'm saying. It just boggles me how people could say Geno doesn't feel like a lock at this point and think characters like Isaac are likelier because of a website screenshot with a weird layout/camera angle, or Karate Joe because of a pose DK had in the K.Rool trailer.

Geno has other barriers that characters like Isaac don't have since Isaac is not a 3rd party character. Same thing with Karate Joe, by default 1st party characters are simply easier to work with.

Why Elma over Paper Mario? Yes, this is specific, but I need answers. Every day is pain.

I'd say because Elma has a unique fighting style that differs from even other sword users in Smash and would not be another variation on Mario frankly.

If Square Enix's composers are going to be huge ***** who don't license more than 2 songs then I can honestly say I hard pass on any more Square Enix content. I'd rather not have Crono if it means we're spared from a flaccid half-***** implementation sabotaged by the company that owns the character.

I think Final Fantasy has the biggest issue when it comes to music licensing. I'm not sure if Dragon Quest or other SE series have such severe problems.

I love all these ****ty leaks now include black knight because of the photo of the stage. Absolute laughably

Smash Leaks tend to piggyback based on popular discussion in the community or to shake up said conversation so this doesn't really tend to surprise me.

I got a feeling that IF Shantae is in the game, then she will be shown in this Nindie for Switch Direct 28th of August.
It would have made sense. She not being shown as an Assist Trophy alongside Shovel Knight, and the hush-hush from Wayforward, who before the Ballot heavily pushed her on. I think it's legit possible that it's Shantae or nothing (as of Indies).

I would doubt that even if Shantae is in the game. The Nindies showcases exist to serve a very specific purpose. Smash Bros tends to be all consuming and revealing Smash information during the showcase would likely completely undermine the indies being promoted. It would just be better off for her to be revealed in a regular direct where it's not as problematic.

 

[praline]

Ridley is too big, and K Rool is irrelevant.
Things change. We can't go by delusional patterns.
I'm not saying anywhere near that there are 100% chance of this happening, but there is also a fact of it having a 100% of it "not" happening.
It's crazy how Ultimate/Special is throwing us for a loop.

Our first Indie content for Smash was just shown, opening the gates for indie content, and why not just a small trailer at the end of the indie direct, as they did in the previous game? It would give us something to go on, and it's a first time for everything.

Also, to actually comment on the next direct. I do agree that the next one will be the one who will mainly focus on the "Green" mode.

Smash isn’t an indie game so it would have no place in an indie direct. Why do people think Smash has to appear in any and every direct when it doesn’t make sense.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Our first Indie content for Smash was just shown, opening the gates for indie content, and why not just a small trailer at the end of the indie direct, as they did in the previous game? It would give us something to go on, and it's a first time for everything.

The indie character was an Assist Trophy.

Assist Trophy is for characters that don't have a cool / perfect moveset.
Tell me, what movesets you thought for Bomberman and Shovel Knight?

Also, Indie characters are relevant in Japan community and Smash Bros franchise?

 

[Opossum]

Also no one should ever expect a Smash reveal at an indie direct.

That'd go against the entire point of the indie direct and would be a slap in the face to all of the indie devs showcased there. Smash would take every ounce of attention away from them. Nintendo wouldn't be that blatantly disrespectful.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Smash isn’t an indie game so it would have no place in an indie direct. Why do people think Smash has to appear in any and every direct when it doesn’t make sense.

Crazier things happen.
Again, I do not believe there will be a reveal or anything during the indies.
I'm just open for it if it were to happen. There's a difference.

 

[MainJPW]

Crazier things happen.
Again, I do not believe there will be a reveal or anything during the indies.
I'm just open for it if it were to happen. There's a difference.

It's too crazy, which is why it's not happening.

 

[DraginHikari]

Ridley is too big, and K Rool is irrelevant.
Things change. We can't go by delusional patterns.
I'm not saying anywhere near that there are 100% chance of this happening, but there is also a fact of it having a 100% of it "not" happening.
It's crazy how Ultimate/Special is throwing us for a loop.

Our first Indie content for Smash was just shown, opening the gates for indie content, and why not just a small trailer at the end of the indie direct, as they did in the previous game? It would give us something to go on, and it's a first time for everything.

Also, to actually comment on the next direct. I do agree that the next one will be the one who will mainly focus on the "Green" mode.

Because it would undermine the entire point of the showcase because Smash Bros news tends to overshadow everything when it's brought up. The point is to put the spotlight on indie titles that actually need the attention.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I agree, 100%. It would undermine the attention of the indies.
It would be dragging away all the attention.

I don't believe it will happen. I don't expect it to happen.
I don't even think I want it to happen.

Should it happen tho. Then I would not be surprised. Because all the "rules" and "patterns" from Melee til' now, all out the window, created by us speculators to try solve a mind case, which would lead to a falling spiral.

So, yeah. I agree with you all, don't you doubt a second on that, but I just leave it at that.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Tell me, what movesets you thought for Bomberman and Shovel Knight?

Nah fam, that ain't it.

It's been proven almost any character can have a moveset

It's probably more that Sakurai didn't see them as a priority.

 

[Roberto zampari]

It's probably more that Sakurai didn't see them as a priority.

Why? Bomberman and Shovel Knight are the most requested characters in the fanbase.
Explain this.

 

[ArkhaosZero]

Nah fam, that ain't it.

It's been proven almost any character can have a moveset

It's probably more that Sakurai didn't see them as a priority.

Agreed. Practically half the cast has an entirely fabricated moveset. Captain Falcon, Fox, Wii Fit Trainer, ROB.. he even created 3 entirely seperate movesets for Mii's which are effectively stick figures.

Moveset potential is an extremely weak indicator of whether a character will make the cut. It helps from a creativity stand point, and in some fringe cases may make a difference (as seen with Chrom v Robin), but other factors take much higher priority.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Riku is a echo of Sora?

Why? The two don't use their keyblade in the same way at all, heck, they don't even use the same powers.

They are other points that make me doubt this leak (like, why Zelgius when peoples want BK?), but I'm just going to go to the point and call it fake.

to be fair I don't know anything about kingdom hearts but Marth and Lucina don't really use their swords the same way but she's still an echo

 

[Darkraid]

Yeah, we were all very wrong. Let me pull up my Pre-E3 roster.
View attachment 159866
I haven't gotten a single one right so far and 3 (Practically 4) are discomnfirmed.

I got Ridley, KK Rool, Chrom and dark samus right. I actually thought veggieben got simon wrong. So i was surprised

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Is there a reason for him to constantly be running at the speed of light during gameplay though?

Sonic training Tails to be his successor? I like the sound of that. That makes sense with Tails becoming more independent in the Adventure games by beating Eggman by himself... until you remember that garbage Forces where he can't even fight Chaos 0 despite beating Chaos 4 in Adventure.

Uhhh...we can forget about “depressed and hopeless” Tails from the first half of Forces, and as for the running at the speed of light constantly, it can be given any sort of Sonic reason possible

 

[MSmariosonic]

Why? Bomberman and Shovel Knight are the most requested characters in the fanbase.
Explain this.

It isn't all about being a highly requested character.

Perhaps Simon was chosen in favor over Bomberman due to him being more associated with Nintendo?
Perhaps indie characters aren't as recognizable guests as other 3rd parties?


See, Sakurai is the developer here and he'll know what's best in the end. Because if we got a roster that followed the ballot more religiously we'd have a lot more saiyans, sponges and ogres running around.

 

[Metal Shop X]

to be fair I don't know anything about kingdom hearts but Marth and Lucina don't really use their swords the same way but she's still an echo

Yeah but Lucina as the excuse of passing for Marth at the start of Awakening.

Meanwhile, Sora & Riku don't use the same keyblade, way of fighting, powers, ability, etc... There is like no excuse you can make beside "they are keyblade users", but by that point, any keyblade users can be a Sora echo.

Heck, Roxas would be a much better echo, they have the same idle pose and the same keyblade at the start of KH2 along others things, heck, you could say he is a clone of Sora in some way.

Like now that I say it, the "leak" seem even more fake now.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Why? Bomberman and Shovel Knight are the most requested characters in the fanbase.
Explain this.

If that was the case, Ridley and K Rool would’ve joined last game...but they weren’t as big of a priority as Little Mac, Mega Man, or especially Palutena

 

[DraginHikari]

Why? Bomberman and Shovel Knight are the most requested characters in the fanbase.
Explain this.

Primarily because Sakurai and his team are frankly just as subjective as anyone else. They may have viewed particular characters differently then some may have hoped.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This is just hilarious.

If that was the case, Ridley and K Rool would’ve joined last game...but they weren’t as big of a priority as Little Mac, Mega Man, or especially Palutena

Mega Man was more highly requested than either of them.

 

[Freduardo]

We’re probably not getting an Indie character... but people like to dream, so let’s discuss the possibilities:

1) Shovel Knight - Very well known, very popular game, very easy moveset due to his diversity of moves. But he’s an assist, so it’s not happening. Maybe next time, partner.
1a) Plague Knight, Specter Knight and King Knight - while they all have their own campaigns, and specter knight would be one of the best characters ever, it’s not going to happen. Even with shovel knight out of the way.

2) Shantae - Is she really am indie? I guess? I mean WayForward just doesn’t seem like an indie studio. But she’s got plenty of games, plenty of movesets, and she’s been with ninty since the game boy color.

3) Commander Video - Not the most moveset potential in the world, but being from an endless runner would present a completely unique style unseen in the game before (never.. stop... moving... which for dashdancers, is fine.). Also he was a trophy in Smash 4, has become a Nintendo (timed) exclusive, while I don’t see us getting any indie character, I still see some content from this guy, even if it’s just the return of his trophy.

4) Juan - Wow that’s an easy moveset to put into a platform brawler.... and Brawlout already did... plus, Guacamelee is currently a timed exclusive for Sony. And well, no shortage of metroidvania characters on this list.

5) Isaac (Binding of, not golden sun) - A twin stick roguelike game is a genre that also has not been previously in Smash. Plus came as a switch launch title.... but this character is creepy, and his genre is mostly big outside of Japan... and not that big anyway.

6) Reimu - Apparently this person is big in japan. I’ve never even heard of their game.

7) Rusty/Dorothy echo - The steamworld Franchise is beloved, entirely on Switch, and presents a unique take on the Metroidvania genre in the two “Dig” titles. I’d love to see them, but I don’t think we’ll even see any content from Image and Form let alone their excellent character designs.

8) Worm (Worms series) - Not really sure if they’re an Indie, but Team17’s flagship series never really gets mentioned, despite being in a genre never before on the roster, having one of the easiest movesets to incorporate while still being unique, and a classic design. Imagine they are virtually unknown in Japan.

9) Travis Touchdown - Another one that like the Worm and Shantae certainly push the definition of what an indie is. He’s got a shot, honestly.

 

[Untouch]

Just wondering, have we seen any of the Kalos league transformations?

Yes, the dragon one is visible during the direct, it's the same as smash 4.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

I wonder how people would react if Issac (Binding of) gets in over Golden Sun Issac? could be disappointing.

 

[Freduardo]

I wonder how people would react if Issac (Binding of) gets in over Golden Sun Issac? could be disappointing.

Ambivalent enough because I like them both.

But wouldn’t say one precludes the other. We have two Roys.

If they like Ninja Gaiden, we could get two Ryus.

 

[domriver]

What if Shadow/Ken/Skull Kid/Geno/BWD/Isabelle/Isaac/Banjo all got deconfirmed in the next direct? What would be the next obvious characters in all of the "leaks"?

Porky, Alolan mon, Tails, Heihachi, Elma Again, Dragon Quest character, Magolor

LOL - id go for Porky, Elma but thats about it the others im indifferent

Also no one should ever expect a Smash reveal at an indie direct.

That'd go against the entire point of the indie direct and would be a slap in the face to all of the indie devs showcased there. Smash would take every ounce of attention away from them. Nintendo wouldn't be that blatantly disrespectful.

Agreed Opossum . Ultimate would take all the attention away. Im like 99.99% sure no smash contact will be shown. The .01% maybe to show off some more assist trophies based on indie characters in ultimate. You know for example - shantae by the way! she is also an assist trophy in ultimate! so watch for her there also. *literally I can see that happening* But im with the 99.99%.

 

[praline]

I wonder how people would react if Issac (Binding of) gets in over Golden Sun Issac? could be disappointing.

I would find it dumb for 2 reasons.

1. Golden Sun Isaac is better.
2. Binding of Isaac got in over Shovel Knight.

 

[link2702]

I don’t agree with the idea that an indie being revealed for smash in the direct would be insulting or undermining them, if anything I feel it’s the opposite, it’s acknowledging that indie games have reached a point quality and respect wise that Nintendo feels they’ve earned the right to be represented in the biggest, best, and most famous crossover for game characters ever.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Why? Bomberman and Shovel Knight are the most requested characters in the fanbase.
Explain this.

They are not even close lmao