Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Roberto zampari]

Now, why everyone want Decidueye over Incineroar?

 

[DraginHikari]

I would find it dumb for 2 reasons.

1. Golden Sun Isaac is better.
2. Binding of Isaac got in over Shovel Knight.

Actually, number 2 probably poses the greatest problem for any indie playable character as any Indie playable would probably have a huge risk of becoming a salt target.

 

[praline]

Now, why everyone want Decidueye over Incineroar?

Decidueye just seems like it’d have a more unique moveset than Incineroar.

More fun? Maybe.
More unique? Definitely.

 

[IronTed]

There was a similar discussion about Nintendo revealing something during the last Nindies Showcase back in March, and nothing was revealed. For Nintendo or any large publisher to reveal anything of note would defeat the entire point of the showcase, which is meant for smaller tier devs and games

 

[KMDP]

Hold the phone. Grand Metropolis Zone would make a nice looking stage. Futuristic, nice use of colours. Flying cars as hazards? That would probably be obnoxious.

Look at how pretty it is in the intro of Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games.

For those who don't know: "Wait, this isn't [place], this is GRAND METROPOLIS!" is a joke from RadicalSoda, specifically his Sonic Generations Mods video.

DOO-DOO DOO DOO-DOO DOO

No, he is Juju, obviously.

Still, I have two questions:

-Are the peoples asking for BK would be really happy with Zelgius? Sure, they are the same person, but one of the reasons peoples want BK is because he wear a fullset of armor that make him look imposing, vilainous and make him look distinct compared to other FE characters, plus, when peoples think of "popular FE vilain" they think Zelgius as the Black Knight, or just the Black Knight. Also, since you can't even see his head, peoples not familiar with FE won't know he is actually another blue-haired swordman who so happen to be another echo of yet another FE character. Putting Zelgius and not his more popular alias feel like shooting yourself in the foot in the long run.

-Why the "leaker" needed to mention Zelgius if he was refering to BK as the echo? To be clear so that peoples don't get confused by other Black Knight characters? If that's that, I think everyone would have get that he was refering to FE Black Knight if he was mentionning Ike as the basis (since both Ike & Zelgiues/BK had the same master). So he is really saying that Zelgius, not helmet, red armor, would be Ike echo fighter?

I don't know, the more you look at it, the less sense it make.

You could have Zelgius and the Black Knight in the same character, just like POR Ike and RD Ike being the same.

The Inklings had it easy compared to most of the characters who showed up in the cgi trailers...Mario/Mega Man/Luigi/ are dead, Samus got retraumatized after having peace in Smash for so long, Donkey and Diddy got glass in their eyes and couldn’t expand correctly, and DeDeDe got ***** slapped so damn hard he might as well be dead

Bowser - Backslashed by Shulk and launched, like, miles away.
Inkling - Has the Smash Logo burned into her retinas
Mega Man - Impaled by Ridley
Mario - Had his ribs crushed by Ridley
Samus - Suit destroyed fighting Ridley, might still be alive
Luigi - Had his soul ripped out by Death
Dedede - Broken neck via ***** slap from K. Rool
DK - Glass in his eyes
Diddy - Glass in his eyes

Who's next on the chopping block?

 

[MalcolmBelmont]

For those who don't know: "Wait, this isn't [place], this is GRAND METROPOLIS!" is a joke from RadicalSoda, specifically his Sonic Generations Mods video.

DOO-DOO DOO DOO-DOO DOO

You could have Zelgius and the Black Knight in the same character, just like POR Ike and RD Ike being the same.

Bowser - Backslashed by Shulk and launched, like, miles away.
Inkling - Has the Smash Logo burned into her retinas
Mega Man - Impaled by Ridley
Mario - Had his ribs crushed by Ridley
Samus - Suit destroyed fighting Ridley, might still be alive
Luigi - Had his soul ripped out by Death
Dedede - Broken neck via ***** slap from K. Rool
DK - Glass in his eyes
Diddy - Glass in his eyes

Who's next on the chopping block?

Little Mac, gets owned by Ken Masters or Incineroar

 

[Flynn__]

I have the feeling that if Rosalina's trailer had been made for Ultimate instead of 4 some driver would have lost control of their kart and plummeted to their death in Rainbow Road. Sakurai's feeling edgy nowadays.

 

[Metal Shop X]

For those who don't know: "Wait, this isn't [place], this is GRAND METROPOLIS!" is a joke from RadicalSoda, specifically his Sonic Generations Mods video.

DOO-DOO DOO DOO-DOO DOO

You could have Zelgius and the Black Knight in the same character, just like POR Ike and RD Ike being the same.

Bowser - Backslashed by Shulk and launched, like, miles away.
Inking - Has the Smash Logo burned into her retinas
Mega Man - Impaled by Ridley
Mario - Had his ribs crushed by Ridley
Samus - Suit destroyed fighting Ridley, might still be alive
Luigi - Had his soul ripped out by Death
Dedede - Broken neck via ***** slap from K. Rool
DK - Glass in his eyes
Diddy - Glass in his eyes


Who's next on the chopping block?

I guess that could be a thing...but wouldn't that take too much effort for "just" a echo fighter?

I don't say there is a rule that echo fighter can't have costumes, but as of now, I am not sure if the Smash team would put that much effort for a single echo fighter, another FE one at that. (plus if this was the case, why the "leaker" didn't mention something along those lines?)

 

[MainJPW]

For those who don't know: "Wait, this isn't [place], this is GRAND METROPOLIS!" is a joke from RadicalSoda, specifically his Sonic Generations Mods video.

DOO-DOO DOO DOO-DOO DOO

I'm subscribed, Grand Metropolis is just damn pretty and I never considered it to be a stage. If it looks like how it does in that Mario and Sonic intro I'd take it. Pump that **** full of city-level music too.

 

[RandomAce]

And Isaac, Elma and a RH character but no Bandana Waddle Dee?

View attachment 159860

This is exactly what I’m predicting right now when it came to newcomers. :]

 

[KMDP]

I guess that could be a thing...but wouldn't that take too much effort for "just" a echo fighter?

I don't say there is a rule that echo fighter can't have costumes, but as of now, I am not sure if the Smash team would put that much effort for a single echo fighter, another FE one at that. (plus if this was the case, why the "leaker" didn't mention something along those lines?)

There's a simple solution to that.

Make Zelgius, then make a helmet to go over his head.

I'm subscribed, Grand Metropolis is just damn pretty and I never considered it to be a stage. If it looks like how it does in that Mario and Sonic intro I'd take it. Pump that **** full of city-level music too.

I figured, but it was more for other people's benefit. Not everyone can get every in-joke.

*continues singing Grand Metropolis off-key over footage of Sky Sanctuary Zone*

 

[blackghost]

i wanted to discuss a few of the things i noticed in the gaemplay from the nintendo uk gameplay.
1. bowser and a few other heavies may have armored smash attacks
2. the cloud limit change is incredibke matches with him will be a lot more aggression and a lot less waiting.
3. shiek... dear god shiek. what i think gets glazed over right now, is how signifigant it is sheik received a 1v1 damage boost. everything else form 4 is still there.
4. go play smash 4 right now and enjoy recovering because outside of shiek and a few others you will struggle to comeback onstage
5. villager got his balloons popped 1v1 twice in a game thats not released yet. he is in for a bad time in the future.

 

[PlugMeister]

For those who don't know: "Wait, this isn't [place], this is GRAND METROPOLIS!" is a joke from RadicalSoda, specifically his Sonic Generations Mods video.

DOO-DOO DOO DOO-DOO DOO

You could have Zelgius and the Black Knight in the same character, just like POR Ike and RD Ike being the same.

Bowser - Backslashed by Shulk and launched, like, miles away.
Inkling - Has the Smash Logo burned into her retinas
Mega Man - Impaled by Ridley
Mario - Had his ribs crushed by Ridley
Samus - Suit destroyed fighting Ridley, might still be alive
Luigi - Had his soul ripped out by Death
Dedede - Broken neck via ***** slap from K. Rool
DK - Glass in his eyes
Diddy - Glass in his eyes

Who's next on the chopping block?

Don't forget that Samus also got her lights knocked out from Little Mac's K.O. Punch.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I have the feeling that if Rosalina's trailer had been made for Ultimate instead of 4 some driver would have lost control of their kart and plummeted to their death in Rainbow Road. Sakurai's feeling edgy nowadays.

Shadow confirmed.

 

[MainJPW]

Shadow confirmed.

First the "red eyes" and now this. It's a done deal.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

i wanted to discuss a few of the things i noticed in the gaemplay from the nintendo uk gameplay.
1. bowser and a few other heavies may have armored smash attacks
2. the cloud limit change is incredibke matches with him will be a lot more aggression and a lot less waiting.
3. shiek... dear god shiek. what i think gets glazed over right now, is how signifigant it is sheik received a 1v1 damage boost. everything else form 4 is still there.
4. go play smash 4 right now and enjoy recovering because outside of shiek and a few others you will struggle to comeback onstage
5. villager got his balloons popped 1v1 twice in a game thats not released yet. he is in for a bad time in the future.

That's cool that recoveries are nerfed. It's an indirect buff to Jigglypuff.

 

[Iridium]

Haha haha! Not real!

Seriously, I get it.

 

[Metal Shop X]

There's a simple solution to that.

Make Zelgius, then make a helmet to go over his head.

I figured, but it was more for other people's benefit. Not everyone can get every in-joke.

*continues singing Grand Metropolis off-key over footage of Sky Sanctuary Zone*

Then it be like the helmetless alt me and Shishoe talked before?

In that case, I could see that, but then again, BK have always been show as the BK only when it come to Smash. His real idendity have never been spoiled in his trophies in Brawl & 4 and his Mii Costume, despite his game being like 10~ years old and Sakurai being infamously know to spoil big twist like it was nothing.

Also, every time the BK have been shown in Smash, it was his Path of Radiance appareance that was used, not his more damaged RD design, which is the one associate with Zelgius the most (FE Heroes use the RD design for Zelgius armor, while BK with helmet on in Heroes use his POR design).

I'm not sure really, various pattern have been know to be broken every time we see more, and the pattern I been talking about BK design in Smash could be easily broken without much problem or backlash, but whatever BK get a damaged helmetless alt or not, I think we can agree it wouldn't give the "leak" more points.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

This is just hilarious.

Mega Man was more highly requested than either of them.

Yeah, but Palutena and Little Mac were highly expected Nintendo characters (Palutena due to Uprising and Little Mac as a retro/ type of character

Bowser - Backslashed by Shulk and launched, like, miles away.
Inkling - Has the Smash Logo burned into her retinas
Mega Man - Impaled by Ridley
Mario - Had his ribs crushed by Ridley
Samus - Suit destroyed fighting Ridley, might still be alive
Luigi - Had his soul ripped out by Death
Dedede - Broken neck via ***** slap from K. Rool
DK - Glass in his eyes
Diddy - Glass in his eyes

Who's next on the chopping block?

Spoiler: Pit confirmed to survive

Also, Mario had his neck snapped, skull crushed, and brain smushed

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Hope this is a costume if she gets in

is just about naked so.... ya'know.

 

[KMDP]

Don't forget that Samus also got her lights knocked out from Little Mac's K.O. Punch.

Well, Samus recovered from that.

Pit also got flung away by Palutena, which may or may not have over-charged his Power of Flight.

Then it be like the helmetless alt me and Shishoe talked before?

Yeah, pretty much.

In that case, I could see that, but then again, BK have always been show as the BK only when it come to Smash. His real idendity have never been spoiled in his trophies in Brawl & 4 and his Mii Costume, despite his game being like 10~ years old and Sakurai being infamously know to spoil big twist like it was nothing.

Also, every time the BK have been shown in Smash, it was his Path of Radiance appareance that was used, not his more damaged RD design, which is the one associate with Zelgius the most (FE Heroes use the RD design for Zelgius armor, while BK with helmet on in Heroes use his POR design).

I'm not sure really, various pattern have been know to be broken every time we see more, and the pattern I been talking about BK design in Smash could be easily broken without much problem or backlash, but whatever BK get a damaged helmetless alt or not, I think we can agree it wouldn't give the "leak" more points.

I don't get why Black Knight specifically has to be the damaged one to be associated with Zelgius. Black Knight is Zelgius no matter how you slice it, even with fully in-tact armour.

Make "Black Knight" to PoR costume and "Zelgius" the RD costume.

Not that I believe the leak.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah, but Palutena and Little Mac were highly expected Nintendo characters (Palutena due to Uprising and Little Mac as a retro/ type of character

Spoiler: Pit confirmed to survive

View attachment 159869

Also, Mario had his neck snapped, skull crushed, and brain smushed

Ok wait wait wait

Spoiler: in reference to the comic

how the HELL did Mario survive all of that?

 

[Polan]

Now, why everyone want Decidueye over Incineroar?

decidueye doesn't look like a rejected cereal mascot.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Just wanna throw my 2 cents here:

Many people would consider these to be the most iconic franchises Nintendo has.

- Mario
- Pokemon
- Zelda
- DK
- Kirby
-Metroid


The first 2 get newcomers with nearly every game. A Gen 7 Pokemon is likely locked at this point and Mario may have a newcomer we haven't seen yet (It could actually be Geno since SMRPG is not a franchise, Vergeben has potentially leaked another Square rep, and Geno has received special recognition for his Mii costume).

The remaining 4 have not gotten a newcomer since Brawl. Now with Ultimate, DK and Metroid finally received more newcomers. This leaves Kirby and Zelda.

Most people at this point expect Skull Kid and Bandana Dee. Skull Kid has several merits going for him so far (which have nothing to do with popularity or chairs lol) which is why people think he's in, on top of being the next most iconic character from Zelda.

Bandana Dee on the other hand is Japan's next most popular character after K. Rool, so if Kirby were to get another character, it'd be him most likely.

Now that leaves other new Nintendo franchises and third parties not yet used.

Of those first party Nintendo franchises, Golden Sun and Chibi Robo probably were some of the most popular. If we are going by the absolute most popular, then Isaac likely is the top leading new franchise rep.

Of remaining 3rd party franchises, it seems to be Banjo, Sora, and Rayman. However, due to Disney being a pain to work with on all fronts, I doubt Sora makes it (at least prior to DLC). This leaves Banjo and Rayman, and additionally Bamco franchises like Tales of and Tekken. Both are popular 3rd Japanese franchises, and may have priority over 3rd party western ones. Additionally, Bamco is making Smash, and already had Hiehachi and Lloyd Mii costumes in 4, like Geno. This means like Sakurai's bias for Geno (not a negative thing), Bamco may want one of these reps in the game due to being the publisher for the game.


All in all, I think we have as safe guesses (discounting surprises or echoes).

The 2 franchises that always get reps
- 7th Gen Pokemon/Incineroar
- Mario rep/Geno (May be the SE Rep as a result)

The 2 franchises likely to get reps:
-Zelda: Skull kid
-Kirby: Bandana Dee

The remaining popular 1st party Nintendo franchises not represented:
- Golden Sun: Isaac
- Chibi Robo

Remaining 3rd party franchises
Japanese (Due to Bamco bias and Mii costumes):

- Tekken: Heihachi (was considered previously)
- Tales of: Lloyd

Western (Due to popularity WW for Smash):
Banjo Kazooie: Banjo and Kazooie
Rayman: Rayman


I personally think, that the majority of our remaining unique newcomers will be from these 10 characters on this list. Yes there can and will likely be surprises (Elma, Excitebiker, Travis Touchdown, whoever else may have cleared polls or had assist trophies previously), but I think these are the safest guesses we can make right now.

 

[Pakky]

Now, why everyone want Decidueye over Incineroar?

Simple, people don't research.

 

[MainJPW]

Spoiler: Pit confirmed to survive

View attachment 159869

Also, Mario had his neck snapped, skull crushed, and brain smushed

People always forget that Mario had his head stomped like a grape.

They're fine though, like... they have 1-Up mushrooms for a reason.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

That's cool that recoveries are nerfed. It's an indirect buff to Jigglypuff.

Directional airdodge is also an indirect buff to her, it makes it possible for her to actually edgeguard now as airdodging is riskier for the opponent, while also allowing her to make up that last bit of distance to make it back to the stage herself. If she gets a fair amount of buffs to her actual moves too she should at least not be completely awful this time.

 

[KMDP]

No More Heroes: Travis Touchdown

Pretty sure NMH is 3rd Party.

Other than that, good list.

 

[DraginHikari]

Spoiler: Hope this is a costume if she gets in

is just about naked so.... ya'know.

Funny thing is the swimsuit covers more of her torso then her default attire. I guess if it was going to be an issue of what is worse, show more bare arm/legs or showing more of bare upper body.

 

[Opossum]

Simple, people don't research.

"Research" has nothing to do with me wanting a character, thank you.

 

[Pakky]

Funny thing is the swimsuit covers more of her torso then her default attire. I guess if it was going to be an issue of what is worse, show more bare arm/legs or showing more of bare upper body.

Really don't care about what is and isn't an issue I just want costumes.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Well, Samus recovered from that.

Pit also got flung away by Palutena, which may or may not have over-charged his Power of Flight.

Yeah, pretty much.

I don't get why Black Knight specifically has to be the damaged one to be associated with Zelgius. Black Knight is Zelgius no matter how you slice it, even with fully in-tact armour.

Make "Black Knight" to PoR costume and "Zelgius" the RD costume.

Not that I believe the leak.

I don't know man, I'm just trying to find pattern where there is probably none so that this leak can go into the trash for sure.

Tbh, I be fine with whatever design they decide to use for the helmetless alt, I just don't know if they do the effort for a echo since as of now, echo fight haven't been shown to have costume alt.

Spoiler: Hope this is a costume if she gets in

is just about naked so.... ya'know.

Not wanting to be a party pooper but I don't think this design would got in at all, since it was a very late DLC costume. Plus, imo, I prefer to see this.

Since this costume fix most of Pyra's design problem and was in the base game, so the Smash team would probably choose this one if they decided to put a costume for Pyra, again, in my humble opinion.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Pretty sure NMH is 3rd Party.

Other than that, good list.

Whoops, you are right. Fixing.

 

[CroonerMike]

Seems like everything is a safe guess when discussing characters around here.

 

[Pakky]

Since this costume fix most of Pyra's design problem and was in the base game, so the Smash team would probably choose this one if they decided to put a costume for Pyra, again, in my humble opinion.

Sigh, Ya'know this was a mistake. I like the costume as well but, to think that the default costume would be discarded for an optional costume is just...

See, this was my fault I shouldn't have brought her up. Or perhaps I'm overacting.

 

[KMDP]

I don't know man, I'm just trying to find pattern where there is probably none so that this leak can go into the trash for sure.

Tbh, I be fine with whatever design they decide to use for the helmetless alt, I just don't know if they do the effort for a echo since as of now, echo fight haven't been shown to have costume alt.

Not wanting to be a party pooper but I don't think this design would got in at all, since it was a very late DLC costume. Plus, imo, I prefer to see this.

Since this costume fix most of Pyra's design problem and was in the base game, so the Smash team would probably choose this one if they decided to put a costume for Pyra, again, in my humble opinion.

I was questioning myself if making two character models would be a justifiable amount of effort; or a similar level of effort to what they did for Richter and Dark Samus...

 

[Opossum]

Now, why everyone want Decidueye over Incineroar?

I love owls. I love archers. I love Grass Pokémon. I love Ghost Pokémon. Decidueye covers all of those at once.

Don't get me wrong, I like Incineroar too (it's saying something when Incineroar is my least favorite of the Alola starters, but still in the upper half of my favorite starters over all...Alola's are just that good). Decidueye just does more for me.

 

[DraginHikari]

Really don't care about what is and isn't an issue I just want costumes.

It is kind of interesting question because it does come up in regards in Pyra quite often but it is a curious one. Shulk did appear, as you stated, with very minimal clothing and from what I can tell not very much was changed from how it looked in the original game yet if a similar feature is on one of the female characters it usually has to be tone down in some form to maintain a rating. Even Samus' Zero Suit alt costumes had to be tone down from the original game's presentation

Makes me curious if the different between Male and Female in regards to a game's rating. Or if it's more funny because Shulk's bare appearance is more of a meta-joke from the original game or if female characters are just viewed differently or if it concerned over international requirements for certain regions.

Probably questions that will never be answered but it is kind of a odd thing.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Sigh, Ya'know this was a mistake. I like the costume as well but, to think that the default costume would be discarded for an optional costume is just...

See, this was my fault I shouldn't have brought her up.

'just saying, I myself don't mind Pyra default design that much, but I think it be better for those who don't like her default design to have a option to give her something that is less "revelating", so that everyone could win in a way.

But I ain't going to follow on this since I actually don't like talking about Pyra design here, I just wanted to give my 2 cents on what costume they would choose for Pyra, so , sorry for bringing up something you don't like.

I was questioning myself if making two character models would be a justifiable amount of effort; or a similar level of effort to what they did for Richter and Dark Samus...

Wait...

What if they decided to make RD Zelgius a echo of POR BK who is a echo of Ike to please everyone?!

ECHO-CEPTIOOOOOOOOON!!!!

 

[Pakky]

'just saying, I myself don't mind Pyra default design that much, but I think it be better for those who don't like her default design to have a option to give her something that is less "revelating", so that everyone could win in a way.

But I ain't going to follow on this since I actually don't like talking about Pyra design here, I just wanted to give my 2 cents on what costume they would choose for Pyra, so , sorry for bringing up something you don't like.

I did overreact I apologize.

"Research" has nothing to do with me wanting a character, thank you.

That's true you're right.

But people really don't research, that's why we have bad fake leaks.