Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Swamp Sensei]

Isabelle. Ken. Expected since the reveal of Echoes.

Eh?

I never saw Ken brought up until after Verge leaked him.

 

[Luigi The President]

Bottom of the barrel for fan favorites and the only reason we believe them now is because Sakurai has made it clear that fan demand is important for this installment.

I can't tell if you're disagreeing or agreeing with me because I'm dumb, but it sounds like you're agreeing with me? In which case, yeah, ever since Sakurai made that even more clear it's changed things.

xD what happens after all 3?

New titans will arise.

Eh?

I never saw Ken brought up until after Verge leaked him.

Day 1 is an exaggeration, but after Richter's reveal I saw a TON of discussion about him and how he was now "obvious" to most.
Vergeben went on to leak Ken a week and a half later or so.
My bad!

 

[Nethermoosen]

xD what happens after all 3?

Then begins the age of aquarius and I leave the fan picks to all the younger players. Us Elder millenials will be done with our work.

I can't tell if you're disagreeing or agreeing with me because I'm dumb, but it sounds like you're agreeing with me? In which case, yeah, ever since Sakurai made that even more clear it's changed things.


New titans will arise.


Day 1 is an exaggeration, but after Richter's reveal I saw a TON of discussion about him and how he was now "obvious" to most.
Vergeben went on to leak Ken a week and a half later or so.
My bad!

Agreeing. Sorry for the lack of explanation.

 

[Demonslyer401]

Eh?

I never saw Ken brought up until after Verge leaked him.

really I herd a lot of people talk about ken before Verge even mentioned him

 

[Luigi The President]

Agreeing. Sorry for the lack of explanation.

My friend, you just triple posted, might want to edit your 2 posts to request deletion!

But thank you. Glad to hear it!

 

[Sephazon]

I know it makes me sound childish but I REALLY dont wanna trust vergeban or these leakers.

I just dont see Sakurai letting stuff for this game leak.
While yes Verge has gotten stuff right hes also missed a lot
> K rool, Richter, Dark Samus and Chrom
> Only said Ice Climbers and Snake and not everyone coming back
> Piggybacked off of the simon leak from someone else
> Didnt guess daisy
> Ridley was a relatively safe pick

I still dont think I believe him at all regarding smash. I think hes just trying his hardest to stay relevant since smash people are so hungry for news and will take anything as gospel

Ridley has never been a safe pick. Sakurai gave specific reason why he would not be in Smash, regardless of fan demand. To say he was safe as a pick was to ignore Sakurai himself.

After having worked with Nintendo and other video game companies over the course of the past five years, I can say with absolute certainty there are four ways content is leaked in most situations, from most likely to least likely:

1. Accidental posting of content (e.g. the music on the Smash site, Mega Slowbro on Pokémon's Korean site, and Amazon listings of games. This is more classified as an accident/oversight and not technically an intentional leak).
2. Marketing posting of content (this does happen in the industry where a potential "leak" from #1 is actually used to hype up upcoming content, and I have been a part of this on at least one occasion).
3. Content dumped from game code (often seen with both Super Smash Bros. and Pokémon, though I hardly consider this leaked content and just an oversight).
4. Content is discussed openly with people not in the industry, making it possible for people to lose their jobs and being completely unhirable in any capacity in the future of their career (e.g. ESRB leak). It is incredibly easy to discover where information came from within companies, even with review copies of games. They will find out. Jobs will be lost. People may be sued. Any leaks from this category are from, in my opinion, video editors, marketers or localizers, and not the developers themselves. I believe this is especially true with Super Smash Bros. where development comes from Japan. Even when this happen, information can easily change from one person to the next or even one day to the next in game development.

 

[Chrono.]

Ken was only brought up in passing pre-Richter.

But a lot of folks had it in their heads that 3rd party echoes probably weren't happening because the companies wouldn't let them "just" be echoes.

I'm pretty glad Richter broke that dumb notion (as well as the other notion that 3rd party franchises can't have more than one character.)

 

[Idon]

really I herd a lot of people talk about ken before Verge even mentioned him

He got a bit of traction when echoes were revealed, but people were still hesitant on whether Sakurai would consider adding echoes to 3rd parties, or if 3rd parties would even let him.

 

[Zinith]

After all 3 get in, we'll just move on to the ANTI-Big 3. Focusing all our energy to keeping Goku, Shrek and Spongebob out

 

[Onua]

Echoes are interesting in terms of what people have thought of them
At first there was a lot of weird fan limits on who was possible
Then after the direct people started going wild
Now were back to a small list of possible echoes that barely passes 6 or so characters
No doubt the next echo reveal will throw a wrench in what we think of when it comes to them

 

[Wambo]

I know it makes me sound childish but I REALLY dont wanna trust vergeban or these leakers.

I just dont see Sakurai letting stuff for this game leak.

Smash speculation has definitely gotten more popular when it comes to finding out info about new characters. Sakurai has better learned how to keep information on lock-down since Smash 4, which is also why he's planning on revealing every character prior to release himself (to avoid another ESRB situation). You have to remember though, Sakurai has a team of over 100 people working on this game; these are people with different personalities, families, etc.. A developer could tell their son about a new character and accidentally break NDA when he leaks it to some friends online, or someone could've had an office argument with Sakurai/other developers and go out of their way to ruin the impact of what would've been a big reveal out of spite.

There's a hundred people, probably broken up into different teams, which explains why only a select few characters (Simon/Ridley) have leaked, and why the "Everyone is here!" theme managed to stay secret. I can imagine Sakurai picked the people for each of these teams and put the most trustworthy ones with the fewest problems in charge of characters like K.Rool/Richter/Chrom/Dark Samus.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Echoes are interesting in terms of what people have thought of them
At first there was a lot of weird fan limits on who was possible
Then after the direct people started going wild
Now were back to a small list of possible echoes that barely passes 6 or so characters
No doubt the next echo reveal will throw a wrench in what we think of when it comes to them

Geno is an echo of Mii gunner.

 

[Luigi The President]

Echoes are interesting in terms of what people have thought of them
At first there was a lot of weird fan limits on who was possible
Then after the direct people started going wild
Now were back to a small list of possible echoes that barely passes 6 or so characters
No doubt the next echo reveal will throw a wrench in what we think of when it comes to them

I'd really really love to see an unexpected Echo. It does get a bit tiring to see the same "Chosen 6/7/8" over and over.

 

[Slavic]

give us a Whismur echo of Jiggs

this would probably hype me more than any other Pokemon addition honestly

 

[Grevmak]

If it's true, that is an interesting alternative for those who collect Amiibo. Heck, with the Amiibo I have, I can get Peach, Marth, Inkling, Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, Chrom and Shulk at the beginning.

Tfw the only Amiibo you own is Pikachu which is unlocked from the getgo. Oh well, unlocking via gameplay is terrific fun to me regardless, so that's cool!

 

[Zinith]

Poochy & Goonie as a Duck Hunt Echo...

Spoiler

God, I'm still reeling from that nonsense...

 

[Wambo]

Geno is an echo of Mii gunner.

I don't know whether I'd still be happy that he's in or cry.

 

[Idon]

I don't know whether I'd still be happy that he's in or cry.

You can be both.
Glad he's in Smash; Sad he's just trash.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Nine do won’t let Amiibo die and we must accept that through Smash

 

[Zinith]

You can be both.
Glad he's in Smash; Sad he's just trash.

Any Palutena fans who can testify to that?

 

[Onua]

I'd really really love to see an unexpected Echo. It does get a bit tiring to see the same "Chosen 6/7/8" over and over.

The issue with that is going with all the echoes that make sense, outside of the chosen 6 or so, there isnt much in terms of options

The unexpected echo would be someone like richter, a newcomer who comes with an echo fighter with them.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Koopa Kid as a Bowser jr, echo. I am a genius.

 

[Luigi The President]

The issue with that is going with all the echoes that make sense, outside of the chosen 6 or so, there isnt much in terms of options

The unexpected echo would be someone like richter, a newcomer who comes with an echo fighter with them.

No one seems to expect Birdo or Dry Bowser, for instance.
Imagine Metal Mario, that'd be fun!

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Kefka

Best FF villain.

 

[Wambo]

The issue with that is going with all the echoes that make sense, outside of the chosen 6 or so, there isnt much in terms of options

The unexpected echo would be someone like richter, a newcomer who comes with an echo fighter with them.

King Hippo as a King K.Rool Echo.

... I kinda wanna see this, honestly...

 

[Sephazon]

Only if the source misconstrued Sora to be a Square-Enix rep, which is possible since it's a common misconception, but Kingdom Hearts is entirely owned by Disney..which you can honestly see best on any non-PlayArts figures' boxes, such as the S.H.Figuarts, Funko, and this one since they removed the Square-Enix logo.

That's a good catch. I'm going to do some research if there's any Square Enix mention on the back of the packaging or elsewhere. It could be possible that Disney is simple the distributor of the merchandise in that region. I live in Tokyo and Kingdom Hearts merchandise can be found and purchased in the Square Enix café in Akihabara. This material has Square Enix labels on it. Thanks bringing this post to our attention. I'll also have to read more up on the ownership and development of Kingdom Hearts.

Edit: Emailed my PR contact from Square Enix an inquiry on Kingdom Hearts as well as Sora brand management and ownership. Not sure if I'll get an answer, let alone one relevant to this situation, but hopefully we can learn a bit more on the the 3rd party situation it's in.

 

[Zinith]

Oh, I think you all know my preferred timeline of events when it comes to Echoes...

 

[MainJPW]

I'd really really love to see an unexpected Echo.

What would count as unexpected? Cross series moves? Maybe something like giving Shadow Mewtwo's teleport and Bayonetta's Witch Time?

 

[Idon]

Any Palutena fans who can testify to that?

So glad to see all my sword bois hanging out together down there

 

[Onua]

The problem with unexpected is most of them dont work, are redudent, or dont make much sense being in smash.

Echoes arent like completely new newcomers in the sense that theyre impossible to guess or predict to a degree

This is partly why so many people agree on the 6 outside of dixie

People get really upset when you bring up Dixie being one of the main possible 6 for some odd reason

 

[DarkFalcon]

Oh, I think you all know my preferred timeline of events when it comes to Echoes...

Frankly? No. Just no. I know you want Dr. Luigi as a Luigi echo but it's just not happening.

 

[Luigi The President]

What would count as unexpected? Cross series moves? Maybe something like giving Shadow Mewtwo's teleport and Bayonetta's Witch Time?

Nah, a vast majority of people seem to expect that Shadow move. (I'd like to see Witch Time replaced with a variation of Shulk's counter though. I'd love Chaos Control Witch Time, but...OP!)

Instead, consider Midbus as Bowser, or even Louie for Olimar.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Oh, I think you all know my preferred timeline of events when it comes to Echoes...

Goodness no! Do elaborate. I think I'd be surprised by just how many different colored reptiles and amphibians you REALLY have in mind.

 

[Deleted member]

I still have hope.

> Was popular enough in the ballot to receive his own Mii costume
> Mii costume was the only one to have it's own splash screen, something not even K.Rool's costume got
> Sakurai likes the character and mentioned him numerous times
> There was that whole thing with the model Sakurai bought to use the rifle as a reference. We've yet to see what it was used for
> Another Square Enix character is coming, according to Verge
> Square Enix has apparently been extremely easy to work with. FF only having two songs is due to music rights with Nobuo Uematsu, I believe
> Two Mushroom icons in the song selection. The reason for this has yet to be revealed
> The NoA tweet. "Are you Team Geno or Team Mallow?" (Honestly, the weakest argument out of all of these)

He's coming.

Can we talk about how Super Mario has TWO sub-menus in My Music, though? Like I get Mario is Mr. Nintendo, but even then, this is a bit absurd.

Maybe like Mario (1/2) and Mario (2/2), but it's so weird.

 

[DevaAshera]

That's a good catch. I'm going to do some research if there's any Square Enix mention on the back of the packaging or elsewhere. It could be possible that Disney is simple the distributor of the merchandise in that region. I live in Tokyo and Kingdom Hearts merchandise can be found and purchased in the Square Enix café in Akihabara. This material has Square Enix labels on it. Thanks bringing this post to our attention. I'll also have to read more up on the ownership and development of Kingdom Hearts.

Square-Enix still appears on some things, particularly if they had a hand in it, like the PlayArts line, this is also a more recent development, merch-wise. The Japanese S.H.Figuarts packaging only has Disney as well. If SE had any ownership, they'd need to be credited at all times regardless.
This is old, but it directly stated here that Disney owns Kingdom Hearts.
https://comicbook.com/2015/08/16/kingdom-hearts-comes-to-disney-infinity-at-d23-expo/

Can we talk about how Super Mario has TWO sub-menus in My Music, though? Like I get Mario is Mr. Nintendo, but even then, this is a bit absurd.

Maybe like Mario (1/2) and Mario (2/2), but it's so weird.

Mario2 confirmed

 

[Deleted member]

The problem with Verge is that he's leaking characters we already all expect.
Isabelle. Ken. Expected since the reveal of Echoes.
Now a new Square Enix rep; everybody and their mother have speculated Geno since day 1.
A Gen 7 Pokemon? Fits the theme.

But also, Ridley was definitely not a safe pick. He was one of the few EXPLICITLY DECONFIRMED Smash characters.
Simon and Ridley is what Verge has got going for him, and few have nearly as much as that.

Verge could very well not be telling the truth. There's no real way to know because these leaks are all so...well, obvious.

This is what I mentioned a bit ago as to why honestly this time around people can guess the most common characters and would still be right.
We have everyone back, so at this point we're just going down the list of the expectations we have.

Next biggest 3rd party franchise? Castlevania. Gen 7 Pokemon, heavy fan-input. I don't think people like Vergeben have much truth when at this point it's characters we expect - Skull Kid, Ken and others at this point are not characters we THINK are gonna join. We EXPECT them to join.

 

[Wambo]

Can we talk about how Super Mario has TWO sub-menus in My Music, though? Like I get Mario is Mr. Nintendo, but even then, this is a bit absurd.

Maybe like Mario (1/2) and Mario (2/2), but it's so weird.

^ This, please. I can't express enough how pissed I am that nobody seems to talk about this ever.

We've never seen music like this split into two different sections before. My theory is that it's due to rights reasons (SMRPG music in it's own section due to still being owned by Square). For people who have no idea what we're talking about, this:

 

[DarkFalcon]

One could just be main series Mario music and the other be RPG Mario music.

 

[Noipoi]

One could just be main series Mario music and the other be RPG Mario music.

Or Mario spin off music.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

^ This, please. I can't express enough how pissed I am that nobody seems to talk about this ever.

We've never seen music like this split into two different sections before. My theory is that it's due to rights reasons (SMRPG music in it's own section due to still being owned by Square). For people who have no idea what we're talking about, this:
View attachment 159846

Mario Music was split into Super Mario and Mario Kart in Brawl.

It's probably the same thing here.