Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NonSpecificGuy]

Wasn’t Mario Kart split from Super Mario in Brawl? Am I just making that up?
Edit:

Mario Music was split into Super Mario and Mario Kart in Brawl.

It's probably the same thing here.

Swear to god Swamp you beat me by one ****ing second.

 

[Sephazon]

Square-Enix still appears on some things, particularly if they had a hand in it, like the PlayArts line, this is also a more recent development, merch-wise. The Japanese S.H.Figuarts packaging only has Disney as well.
This is old, but it's directly stated here that Disney owns Kingdom Hearts.
https://comicbook.com/2015/08/16/kingdom-hearts-comes-to-disney-infinity-at-d23-expo/

Ah, fair enough. If that is the case, and we can say with absolute certainty that Kingdom Hearts is solely owned by Disney, that would make the franchise a 3rd party Disney series. However, does that also mean that Sora is owned by Disney as well? To my knowledge, he was developed by Square Enix and that may play a role in who has the ability to lend him out. At any rate, I believe that if he were to be included in some 3rd party capacity, both Disney and Square Enix would be present at the table. Although I see his chances as essentially nil, despite any legal ownership hurdles, I do still classify Sora as a video game character.

 

[Wambo]

One could just be main series Mario music and the other be RPG Mario music.

That's what I'm saying. It just boggles me how people could say Geno doesn't feel like a lock at this point and think characters like Isaac are likelier because of a website screenshot with a weird layout/camera angle, or Karate Joe because of a pose DK had in the K.Rool trailer.

 

[DevaAshera]

^ This, please. I can't express enough how pissed I am that nobody seems to talk about this ever.

We've never seen music like this split into two different sections before. My theory is that it's due to rights reasons (SMRPG music in it's own section due to still being owned by Square). For people who have no idea what we're talking about, this:
View attachment 159846

We've talked about it to death, all that it means is Super Mario music is being split up..we just don't know how yet. It could mean a few things, most likely one of these..
- Super Mario/Mario Spin-offs (Luigi's Mansion, Kart, Sports, RPGs, etc)
- Mario Franchise/Mario RPG(s)

 

[Zinith]

Oh, speaking about how music is being handled in Ultimate, I know that Yoshi music is separate from Mario music, so the Yoshi music is only applicable to the Yoshi stages...

There's one problem though: Yoshi's Island Melee

That stage uses distinctive Super Mario World music. What about that? Are they just gonna consider those songs "Yoshi songs?"

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Third parties are not coherent and cannot be grouped. Konami, Square, Capcom, Sega are all separate entities and will have different regulations and terms. You can't group third party together and try to form a rule because they come from entirely different entities to begin with. Some third parties may be okay with the echo thing; others may not. We will never know until it happens. They all could be okay with echoes.

 

[Wambo]

Mario Music was split into Super Mario and Mario Kart in Brawl.

It's probably the same thing here.

That's equally odd for them to separate it and sucky, lol. I thought we were on to something here.

 

[DarkFalcon]

That's what I'm saying. It just boggles me how people could say Geno doesn't feel like a lock at this point and think characters like Isaac are likelier because of a website screenshot with a weird layout/camera angle, or Karate Joe because of a pose DK had in the K.Rool trailer.

I mean there's more RPG games than SMRPG, and apparently Mario had splits for the music in Brawl for Mario Kart, so it could just be that.

 

[Onua]

Id say when it comes to likely characters in the base game there that havent been deconfirmed and arent 3rd party are

Isaac
Geno (weird gray area)
Elma
New Gen 7 Pokemon or just a new pokemon in general
Ken Echo
Shadow Echo
Medusa Echo
Isabelle Echo
Skull Kid
Dixie Echo
Black Knight Echo (I dont think hes likely tbh but still including him here)

3rd party characters are where the wild cards are since outside of Banjo its really honestly anyones game if there even will be anymore

 

[Knight Dude]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmiiboCana...ning_an_amiibo_unlocks_the_character_in_ssbu/

Interesting, so it seems scanning an amiibo of an unlockable character will automatically unlock them.

Is there any text leaks that mention this?

Wow, guess that Mega Man Amiibo of mine will have more use than I though. And I just got it since it looks cool. Oh, and the Legacy Collection stuff on 3DS. I did use it for that when I got that game...or games.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

That's what I'm saying. It just boggles me how people could say Geno doesn't feel like a lock at this point and think characters like Isaac are likelier because of a website screenshot with a weird layout/camera angle, or Karate Joe because of a pose DK had in the K.Rool trailer.

Listen dude, I understand that you want Geno, we all do, and you’re not the only one but being antagonistic to other characters and support groups just makes you seem like a hater fan boy. There’s one specific example of someone who did that so much that he became a meme, even after his character mad it in. Geno isn’t a lock, Isaac isn’t a lock, one being more likely than the other is subjective, learn to accept that. You can be a detractor without being antagonistic.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's equally odd for them to separate it and sucky, lol. I thought we were on to something here.

Eh, not really.

Mario Kart is the biggest Mario spin off by far and it has two stages in this game. I imagine we're getting lots of Mario Kart tracks like we always do.

 

[Starbound]

Oh, speaking about how music is being handled in Ultimate, I know that Yoshi music is separate from Mario music, so the Yoshi music applicable to the Yoshi stages...

There's one problem though: Yoshi's Island Melee

That stage uses distinctive Super Mario World music. What about that? Are they just gonna consider those songs "Yoshi songs?"

Do we have confirmation that Yoshi's Island Melee plays on that stage?

The song has always been grouped with Mario in the past so it's possible it gets awkwardly split from the stage it's named for.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Do people really think Banjo has chances that are greater than 5%? He's the least likely character that is requested to make it in my eyes.

 

[Zinith]

Do we have confirmation that Yoshi's Island Melee plays on that stage?

The song has always been grouped with Mario in the past so it's possible it gets awkwardly split from the stage it's named for.

Among many other shenanigans with the "Mario sub-series" distinction...

 

[Chrono.]

Mario Music was split into Super Mario and Mario Kart in Brawl.

It's probably the same thing here.

So Pink Gold Peach is the one who's confirmed then.

 

[Koopaul]

It continues to annoy me that Yoshi's Island (Melee) is considered a Yoshi series.

 

[Starbound]

That's equally odd for them to separate it and sucky, lol. I thought we were on to something here.

This is exactly why no one has been talking more about it.

FYI they did the same thing in Smash 4.

 

[DevaAshera]

Ah, fair enough. If that is the case, and we can say with absolute certainty that Kingdom Hearts is solely owned by Disney, that would make the franchise a 3rd party Disney series. However, does that also mean that Sora is owned by Disney as well? To my knowledge, he was developed by Square Enix and that may play a role in who has the ability to lend him out. At any rate, I believe that if he were to be included in some 3rd party capacity, both Disney and Square Enix would be present at the table. Although I see his chances as essentially nil, despite any legal ownership hurdles, I do still classify Sora as a video game character.

All original content is owned by Disney, Sora included, along with music not from other sources (like One Winged Angel). Kingdom Hearts versions of Square-Enix characters are shared ownership.
This is why when copyright marks appear on artwork or renders of Sora, Kairi, Riku, Aqua, etc. it only says (C)Disney, but artwork of Cloud, Leon (Squall), Yuna, Neku, etc says both (C)Disney (C)Square-Enix (or (C)Squaresoft)

Oh, speaking about how music is being handled in Ultimate, I know that Yoshi music is separate from Mario music, so the Yoshi music applicable to the Yoshi stages...

There's one problem though: Yoshi's Island Melee

That stage uses distinctive Super Mario World music. What about that? Are they just gonna consider those songs "Yoshi songs?"

They may change Yoshi's Island (Melee) into a Mario series stage, make those particular songs belong to the Yoshi series, or, more likely, just allow that music in its My Music selection (we know you can use all series related music, but they said nothing of the non-series selections)

 

[DarkFalcon]

Do people really think Banjo has chances that are greater than 5%? He's the least likely character that is requested to make it in my eyes.

I too like arbitrary percentages.

 

[---]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AmiiboCana...ning_an_amiibo_unlocks_the_character_in_ssbu/

Interesting, so it seems scanning an amiibo of an unlockable character will automatically unlock them.

Is there any text leaks that mention this?

Neat. Though personally that takes away some of the fun IMO, as someone who has a complete set. I already plan on grinding through Classic mode in numbered order.

At least this explains why they're being reissued.

Alright, I did the math. This is EXCLUDING all variations of amiibo (Inkling Boy, Alph, etc.).

57 amiibos at $12.99
14 amiibos at $21.99

That is just under $1,050.

LMAO I wish they cost that much back in the day. Hopefully they're well stocked this time like the NES Classic reissue and that there are no store exclusives for new figures.

 

[Zinith]

They may change Yoshi's Island (Melee) into a Mario series stage, make those particular song Yoshi series ones, or, more likely, just allow that music in its My Music selection (we know you can use all series related music, but they said nothing of the non-series selections)

That stage is still confirmed to be a Yoshi stage, so that's one idea crossed out

 

[Onua]

When it comes to the main 6 echoes I find it interesting how dixie supporters are so vocal about her NOT being an echo of diddy. At this point it feels like the best way for her to get in. Ive heard some ppl say shadow shouldnt be an echo either. But like why not? Either theyre an echo or they arent in honestly lol

 

[Starbound]

Can I just say that I wish the final Stage select screen looked exactly like the menu on the website?

It's such a different layout than the ones we've had before.

 

[DevaAshera]

Do we have confirmation that Yoshi's Island Melee plays on that stage?

The song has always been grouped with Mario in the past so it's possible it gets awkwardly split from the stage it's named for.

Split Custody is always so hard on the kids..

Do people really think Banjo has chances that are greater than 5%? He's the least likely character that is requested to make it in my eyes.

I kind of agree honestly. Even the Gothitelle leak is more likely to be true then Banjo making it in.

 

[Wambo]

Listen dude, I understand that you want Geno, we all do, and you’re not the only one but being antagonistic to other characters and support groups just makes you seem like a hater fan boy. There’s one specific example of someone who did that so much that he became a meme, even after his character mad it in. Geno isn’t a lock, Isaac isn’t a lock, one being more likely than the other is subjective, learn to accept that. You can be a detractor without being antagonistic.

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I'm not being antagonistic to other characters/supporters, I just personally feel that Geno is likelier than other characters given the evidence that's currently out there. I know I've been overly fanatic about Geno and hurtful to other supporters in the past about certain things, but that's definitely not what I intended here.

Also, I'm well aware of MM and his shenanigans, but comparing me (or using him as an example towards me or whatever) to the things he's done is actually kind of offensive and demeaning to me. I'm far from what he is.

 

[Chrono.]

Do people really think Banjo has chances that are greater than 5%? He's the least likely character that is requested to make it in my eyes.

5% is still better than the 0% he had in the previous games.

 

[DevaAshera]

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I'm not being antagonistic to other characters/supporters, I just personally feel that Geno is likelier than other characters given the evidence that's currently out there. I know I've been overly fanatic about Geno and hurtful to other supporters in the past about certain things, but that's definitely not what I intended here.

Also, I'm well aware of MM and his shenanigans, but comparing me (or using him as an example towards me or whatever) to the things he's done is actually kind of offensive and demeaning to me. I'm far from what he is.

As much as I want Geno, there's no actual evidence, just some subjective comments that make him a likely enough candidate.

 

[Sephazon]

I believe we are going to receive at most five more characters in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I have no backup to this claim; it's just a feeling.

1. Shadow the Hedgehog (Sonic the Hedgehog echo)
This would be an easy enough clone to make. SEGA and Nintendo are quite chummy now and it would fit in fairly well with their collaborations and exclusivity deals over the course of the past several years.

2. Chorus Kids
Couldn't find a Chorus Kids icon, so enjoy this Sandbag icon instead! With the representation in Super Smash Bros. for the 3DS and Wii U, as well as the debate over being a cut character, I could understand if they were added as newcomers. They aren't on my list of wanted characters at all, and I believe other characters are more deserving, but I give them a good chance of appearing.

3. Geno
There are so many reasons, I can't even begin. If you're curious, just search anything Geno related on the board... no? Okay, well, for starters, Sakurai has stated his like of Geno in the past. Additionally, not only was Geno among the characters to receive Mii costumes in the previous installment, he even got his own splash screen. The fans have been requesting him for ages. With Chrom, King K Rool and even Rathalos appearing in the next game, I believe his time has come.

4. Isaac
Placed among the top (albeit on the low end) of most requested characters in Japan for the poll. He hasn't appeared since Brawl, but I believe the outcry for him has been heard. With so many unique attacks at his disposal, he has potential to shake up the sword-wielding crowd. He'll be upgrading from an assist trophy.

5. Bandana Dee
One of the top picks for the poll in Japan. With Sakurai's history with the Kirby franchise, this one could be a no-brainer. That said, he's never really been a character I've wanted, and it feels almost like including a Goomba with a spear. Okay, sure he's had playable roles in the Kirby franchise, but there have also been Kirby games where you can play as practically any enemy. I wouldn't mind his inclusion, but I won't lose sleep over his exclusion.

While people often debate the inclusion of other fighters such as Isabelle, Ken and a 7th generation Pokémon, I just don't see it happening. Of course, I could be completely wrong. People who make Smash predictions are never 100% accurate. I would be surprised if even two of my predictions are a reality. I'm sure we'll get at least one character similar to Wii Fit Trainer that NO leaker or member of this community will have predicted. That said, this is a game for the fans, so we'll probably see a few more fan favorites make the cut.

 

[Wambo]

As much as I want Geno, there's no actual evidence, just some subjective comments that make him a likely enough candidate.

Okay, poor word choice on my part there, but that's what I meant. "There are quite a few things out there to suggest that he might be a fighter."

 

[DarthEnderX]

When it comes to the main 6 echoes I find it interesting how dixie supporters are so vocal about her NOT being an echo of diddy. At this point it feels like the best way for her to get in. Ive heard some ppl say shadow shouldnt be an echo either. But like why not? Either theyre an echo or they arent in honestly lol

It is the weird shortsightedness of a lot of fanbases. Even if it's an echo or nothing, or an assist trophy or nothing, they still get mad when they get the option that's not nothing, because they can't admit to themselves that nothing was the only other option.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Do people really think Banjo has chances that are greater than 5%? He's the least likely character that is requested to make it in my eyes.

Characters being chosen from a ballot where he is likely to have scored high. The head of Microsoft has been vocal about his support for the idea. Requested for as long as Geno. Naw. 5% sounds right.

 

[DarkFalcon]

The only character from this point on I'm pretty confident in is Shadow.

 

[Wambo]

Characters being chosen from a ballot where he is likely to have scored high. The head of Microsoft has been vocal about his support for the idea. Requested for as long as Geno. Naw. 5% sounds right.

I actually keep forgetting about Banjo, which is funny considering Banjo-Tooie is also a major part of my childhood.

I dunno. I mean, I know Sakurai would pull him off (just look at K.Rool), but Microsoft just kinda ruined the character for me.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'm pretty confident in Geno and Isaac but only because of them being left of what seems to be "missing".

Honestly, though if this was the game we got, with no more characters, I'd be more than happy with it.

 

[RandomAce]

Ah, fair enough. If that is the case, and we can say with absolute certainty that Kingdom Hearts is solely owned by Disney, that would make the franchise a 3rd party Disney series. However, does that also mean that Sora is owned by Disney as well? To my knowledge, he was developed by Square Enix and that may play a role in who has the ability to lend him out. At any rate, I believe that if he were to be included in some 3rd party capacity, both Disney and Square Enix would be present at the table. Although I see his chances as essentially nil, despite any legal ownership hurdles, I do still classify Sora as a video game character.

Sora is owned by Disney.

However, Disney doesn’t seem to be able to do anything with Sora without Nomura’s consent first. When they do, I assume that’s when negotiations begin.

I honestly, don’t really get why people think he has no chance. KH is one of the biggest franchises that have a connection with Nintendo, not to mention Sora is a popular character that people want to get added, not to mention that Nomura was okay with having Cloud in, and with him essentially being the one who decided what happens to Sora in almost anything, if Sakurai sees that people want him, he would most likely go up to Nomura to get Sora.

Though with the abundance of third parties for the base roster, Sora being a DLC character would be the easiest way to negotiate for him.

 

[Onua]

I predict we will get
> Isaac
> Skullkid
> Elma
> A new Pokemon rep (as much as I really dont want there to be one lol, I think we have enough)
> Isabelle Echo
> Medsua Echo
> Shadow Echo
> Ken Echo

so it kinda fits with the 9 empty days left that that one user pointed out. This is assuming we dont get any other completely new 3rd party reps outside of ken and shadow

 

[Will]

Characters being chosen from a ballot where he is likely to have scored high. The head of Microsoft has been vocal about his support for the idea. Requested for as long as Geno. Naw. 5% sounds right.

A few problems with that.

1. That's because Phil was specifically asked about Banjo. What do you think he would've said if he was asked about who he wants? What about any other Microsoft character? He never said he only wanted Banjo.

2. The length of your requests isn't equal to your playability status. See Takamaru or Waluigi.

3.

 

[Nethermoosen]

The only character from this point on I'm pretty confident in is Shadow.

It's so up in the air. I just have no idea overall. There's been a lot of fan service, but Waluigi, Knuckles, Ashley, Zero, etc.... Oh those poor IPs

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'm imagining getting Elma in the base game and Rex & Pyra as DLC and then people will be claiming Xenoblade bias.