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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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D

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Guys...guys, I don't mean to interrupt but...can we just drop this? It's kinda reminding me of that bit in Ace Attorney where they cross-examine the parrot.
Yeah, I don't want an argument to start. I wasn't offended or mislead at all. I thought maybe Arigarmi was unaware of where he came from like me. I figured Luigi The President's post was the correct one given that I've seen Black Knight associated with Ike before. I was mainly curious about which Tellius game he came from, as I knew Ike had two.

It's all good, no harm was done. :)
 

Momotsuki

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The problem is that there's no way to actually moderate Taunt Parties; you can restrict actual taunts, automatically kick players who do no inputs for an extended period of time, and prevent players from choosing stages (e.g. no longer allowing griefers to constantly pick massive stages to run away on), but there's nothing you can do to actually force players to fight and not just **** around. The best that can be done is a reporting feature, but that doesn't help if the Taunt Partiers aren't in the minority.

Modes like Basic Brawl/For Fun are just destined to devolve to mostly Taunt Parties once the casual playerbase mostly leaves.
Now that you mention all that you're sadly right. I think Taunt parties are good fun in moderation but I do wish there was a way for them to co-exist with people who want to play the game. It does suck that For Fun probably has to serve that purpose but it makes sense why when you mention it.
 

Idon

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Man, Shulk looks so friggin rad in XC2.
Had to grind a bit, but he's finally in my hands.
Aaack, I can't believe the only way for me to see Monado Purge and Cyclone and Buster is in a game I don't even like.

Why, Sakurai.
Did any Shulk fans seriously want him to play like this
Monado Buffs.gif
 
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Will

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Man, Shulk looks so friggin rad in XC2.
Had to grind a bit, but he's finally in my hands.
Aaack, I can't believe the only way for me to see Monado Purge and Cyclone and Buster is in a game I don't even like.
Are we talking gameplay or design?
Because I am not digging that hair tuft that was added for no reason.
 

Iridium

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Also, has anyone else here heard about the incident with Bandana Dee's JP voice actor? I get that it might mean nothing, but still (I must be late, again).
 

Idon

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Are we talking gameplay or design?
Because I am not digging that hair tuft that was added for no reason.
Oh no, the ahoge they added and general "animeification" of Shulk's design is pretty awful.
But the effects and stuff look pretty as all hell. And that original lvl 4's got some great voice acting to go with it.
 
D

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The problem is that there's no way to actually moderate Taunt Parties; you can restrict actual taunts, automatically kick players who do no inputs for an extended period of time, and prevent players from choosing stages (e.g. no longer allowing griefers to constantly pick massive stages to run away on), but there's nothing you can do to actually force players to fight and not just **** around. The best that can be done is a reporting feature, but that doesn't help if the Taunt Partiers aren't in the minority.

FFA modes like Basic Brawl/For Fun are just destined to devolve to mostly Taunt Parties once the casual playerbase supporting them mostly leaves.
See, that's why I support keeping that stuff in private matches with friends. I do agree it's kinda lame to do with randoms online.

My thought process on taunt parties are same as my thoughts on squid/octo parties in Splatoon; please don't do it online with randoms, unless something like your whole team disconnects and you're not gonna be able to win anyways. Keep it in private lobbies with friends, please. That way, everyone's happy. :)
 

Will

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Why, Sakurai.
Did any Shulk fans seriously want him to play like this
View attachment 159808
I actually thought it was good idea if we wanted to incorporate all of the Monado arts into one, which makes sense for Speed and Shield. I would've gone with Monado Cyclone but Air Slash was an equally smart idea. Back Slash is obviously the Side Special. Down special is really anything goes, but a counter is expected from a sword wielder.
and then he just made monado arts up
and then he made shield what ARMOUR DOES INSTEAD OF JUST USING ARMOUR
AND THEN HE MAKES BUSTER SOMETHING ITS N O T
 
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BlueMagician

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The only way to curb Taunt parties is to introduce more modes and probably even a public user room lobby into the online modes. Smash 4's default online modes went into two extremes and I think that's part of the problem.
 

Idon

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I actually thought it was good idea if we wanted to incorporate all of the Monado arts into one, which makes sense for Speed and Shield. I would've gone with Monado Cyclone but Air Slash was an equally smart idea. Back Slash is obviously the Side Special. Down special is really anything goes, but a counter is expected from a sword wielder.
and then he just made monado arts up
and then he made shield what ARMOUR DOES INSTEAD OF JUST USING ARMOUR
AND THEN HE MAKES BUSTER SOMETHING ITS N O T
Like, Sakurai, does realise that Monado Enchant is a thing right? I mean, it's one of the 2 arts you get in the beginning of the game.
 
D

Deleted member

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Also, has anyone else here heard about the incident with Bandana Dee's JP voice actor? I get that it might mean nothing, but still (I must be late, again).
No, what happened?
Man, Shulk looks so friggin rad in XC2.
Had to grind a bit, but he's finally in my hands.
Aaack, I can't believe the only way for me to see Monado Purge and Cyclone and Buster is in a game I don't even like.

Why, Sakurai.
Did any Shulk fans seriously want him to play like this
View attachment 159808
I think Shulk is fine as he is in Smash Bros. No need to be too complex.
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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Man, Shulk looks so friggin rad in XC2.
Had to grind a bit, but he's finally in my hands.
Aaack, I can't believe the only way for me to see Monado Purge and Cyclone and Buster is in a game I don't even like.

Why, Sakurai.
Did any Shulk fans seriously want him to play like this
View attachment 159808
This really makes me want a remake of Xenoblade Chronicles on the Xenoblade Chronicles 2 engine.

I'd buy that faster than any game. After the potato quality Wii version and the garbage quality 3DS version Xenoblade Chronicles deserves a true HD treatment.
 

Will

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Like, Sakurai, does realise that Monado Enchant is a thing right? I mean, it's one of the 2 arts you get in the beginning of the game.
To be fair what the **** are you gonna do with Monado Enchant? I'm more disturbed with the fact that the way he uses the Monado in the game isn't like how he does it in XC1.

It's not necessarily wrong, but it just feels weird.

This really makes me want a remake of Xenoblade Chronicles on the Xenoblade Chronicles 2 engine.

I'd buy that faster than any game. After the potato quality Wii version and the garbage quality 3DS version Xenoblade Chronicles deserves a true HD treatment.
It'd probably get anime-ified if it's a remake instead of being one of the 3D Zelda rereleases. I think the XC2 design is gonna stick because that game sold like hotcakes and if it ain't broke don't fix it.
 
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SmashChu

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The song theory is interesting, but I don't like it. Namely since it implies that we're not getting a Zelda character again.

Then again, there are several franchises that have a new remix in their character trailers:

Now :ultridley::ultinkling: did get a song from their franchise on the site, just not the one in their trailer...only because they were two of the first four songs up on E3 day. Same with :ultdiddy::ultdarksamus::ultroy::ultlucina::ultrobin:ultrichter:, who are in the same series as a recent confirm, but that song still didn't go up. Notably, :ultdaisy: has nothing (her trailer uses a direct port), so we're not getting a song per newcomer (also we only got one a series, despite two Metroidvania newcomers)

but it seems weird that we're not getting a new Mario Land (or any Mario) remixes. True, they could be saving that for another Mario newcomer.

Again, my issue is that this theory implies preexisting Zelda song = no Zelda newcomer, but the song they did put up is a remix from BotW, which they used to show off the Great Plateau stage (remember that New Donk was not in the demo build). Thus, there could be a Zelda newcomer, probably not a BotW one. If we assume Skull Kid, then they may just not put up his song. But then again, Fire Emblem was represented by Heroes, which has little to do with :ultchrom:.

Just a few thoughts. I'm more in the camp that they're not expressly planning to do a song for each newcomer, but it makes sense as long as it fits. Still, they'll shy away from doubling series on the music page. Thus, I don't think an existing track disconfirms a newcomer from a series, but a newcomer from any series that has an existing track probably won't get a new remix up.
As far as Daisy goes, they dont do music for a series if it has another character. So Dark Samus wont have a track because the Ridley one was already added. I guess you could say this helps Skull Kid since Zelda would have already had one (though I think people also overstate Skull Kid's chances). Again, this is just in the confines of this theory. It could just be wrong,

Also, there are more song in the character videos but thats because there are more songs in the game than what will be on the website. This happened for Smash 4 as the trailers and Direct had music that was added but wasn't included on the website.

I can respect your thoughts on Zelda. Been snuffed too much.
 
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Will

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I think Shulk is fine as he is in Smash Bros. No need to be too complex.
I'd argue Idon's suggestions are more simple than what we have in Smash.
I'm not saying Shulk in Smash and how he's designed is bad, but the made-up Arts and how Gaur Plains isn't even Gaur Plains is just off for me.
 
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RandomAce

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I just realized something.

I know we consider a retro NES rep to be a tradition for each Smash game, but when you think about it, Simon kinda already fills that spot, especially using his NES design and how faithful he is to the original games.

Food for thought, I suppose. My idea probably doesn't work anyway, as Duck Hunt still got in after Mega Man, who like Simon, is super inspired by his NES design. :p

I wonder, though: We're all speculating based off of old ideas and patterns, but I almost wonder if we're all way more off the mark than we realize. Nearly every supposed rule and tradition that we as fans seem to think Smash HAD to adhere to has been broken with Ultimate, so I wonder if the people thinking there doesn't necessarily have to be a Pokemon newcomer or new retro/random character might be on to something. I'm probably wrong in thinking this, but eh, it's an interesting idea. :)
The current “rule” right now is that a chracater has to be popular to get in. I think we’d get a slight mix of both, I still see characters like Isaac and Geno get in because they were very popular because of the ballot, but I also see characters like Elma and a Gen 7 Pokémon getting in because they can add something unique to the roster that Sakurai might find it worth spending on.

I mean, if Elma gets revealed next, this thread is going to blow up on how a character that was unpopular that isn’t Pokémon got in, despite there being a lot going for her that people voided because of one thing.

We can’t just look at the newcomers through one lens, we need to look from different angles and see what is going on and what every character has going for them to determine. You need to ask yourself, what makes X character likely in the first place, and if it follows what we’ve seen Sakurai do so far when it comes to this game, and how the characters’ pros goes against their cons.

Elma is an example of this. She wasn’t popular due to her timing and her games’ potential small playerbase. However, she was relevant for Sakurai to notice and consider, she has the potential to be one of the most unique chracaters with access to dual blades, dual guns, and unique abilities and moves, which is definitely something Sakurai looks forward to. She also has the bonus of being aesthetically unique as well, being female and of color, with a unique design. She has a lot of very strong pros going for her, and it may be enough for her to actually get in despite not being popular.
 
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Idon

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To be fair what the **** are you gonna do with Monado enchant? I'm more disturbed with the fact that the way he uses the Monado in the game isn't like how he does it in XC1.

It's not necessarily wrong, but it just feels weird.
I meant using Monado enchant as a "damage buff" like what buster is in Smash. And then you could put Buster as "Smash" instead of making an entirely new art up.

And yeah, I don't know why literally only Shulk out of all the JRPG protagonists puts his weapon away after every strike and doesn't just hold it out like in the game. Especially because he has the coolest weapon of all time, and in fact probably my favorite version of the "macguffin sword."
 

Iridium

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Dee has no mouth, so I don't think Kirby's VA would be violating anything NDA by saying this or anything.
I doubt she knows, but it's cool nonetheless.
The thing is, Kirby doesn't speak when copying Link or Mario for example, so him not having a voice (despite that one song) doesn't mean too much here.
 

Luigi The President

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The thing is, Kirby doesn't speak when copying Link or Mario for example, so him not having a voice (despite that one song) doesn't mean too much here.
I'm sorry my friend, can't really tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me here. What I'm trying to say is I wouldn't look deep into it at all just because there's no real reason for her to know.
 

MagnesD3

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Richter is not a hard guess if you know anything about Castlevania is the thing. He's the Wolverine of the Castlevania series; incredibly popular. He's well known to many gamers from SOTN and other classics. The leaker clearly just figured Castlevania would be represented in some form and decided to switch things up from other leaks. Remember that he completely ruled Simon out?
Believe me though, I'd love that leak to be real because I think we all know who "Mario02" is.

I feel that Geno's in a different spot than your typical Mario rep.
He's technically a third party, and it feels to me that less see him as a Mario rep more than they do as just...Geno. If that makes sense?
Idk man, I hadn’t seen one leak/wishlist with richter on it prior and this was post verges simon leak with actual credibility. If I recall correctly he just said richter was the castlevania newcomer because that’s what he saw in the data and never said Simon wasn’t happening and assumed he would be the castlevania rep as a result. Also the leak called for King K. Rool and dark Samus who were also revealed in the same direct although these were easier guesses they were still hits.

I just don’t think Paper is making the base roster as much as I want it, I think other characters did better on the poll or have more weight in Sakurais eyes. But dlc I see him as a high possibility.
 
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BlueMagician

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Apparently the Xenoblade 1 characters who showed up in Xenoblade 2 have models that are closer to their intended design so I think a remake would totally be in that style.

Glad to see that Smash 4 made Xenoblade popular enough that people actually argue about it. Heh.
 

Iridium

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I'm sorry my friend, can't really tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me here. What I'm trying to say is I wouldn't look deep into it at all just because there's no real reason for her to know.
Yeah, I'm agreeing. Just wanted to note something interesting.

Seriously though. That song . . .
 

Will

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Apparently the Xenoblade 1 characters who showed up in Xenoblade 2 have models that are closer to their intended design so I think a remake would totally be in that style.

Glad to see that Smash 4 made Xenoblade popular enough that people actually argue about it. Heh.
Klaus is gonna look so **** then
 

Luigi The President

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Richter is a hard guess, I mean it’s very possible it could be fake but im playing it safeish.

I just don’t think 2 Mario reps are getting in the base game (besides Echos). Also Geno has more going for him than paper but I know Paper is popular and feel he has

Idk man, I hadn’t seen one leak/wishlist with richter on it prior and this was post verges simon leak with actual credibility. If I recall correctly he just said richter was the castlevania newcomer because that’s what he saw in the data and never said Simon wasn’t happening and assumed he would be the castlevania rep as a result.

I just don’t think Paper is making the base roster as much as I want it, I think other characters did better on the poll or have more weight in Sakurais eyes. But dlc I see him as a high possibility.
Nah he plain out said Simon isn't in. He may have reclarified in a later post, though. But also...didn't he literally steal the Switch from CEO? Or how did he get the "data"?

Sakurai also loves moveset potential, though, and Paper Mario is not only quite popular as we can see from Ballot polls but has some of the greatest moveset potential of any Ballot frontrunners.
I think he has a shot. I'm sure I'm jinxing it, though, so yeah, obviously not /that/ much of a shot. I just don't have it in me to completely rule him out. Even though I likely should!
 
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D

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Apparently the Xenoblade 1 characters who showed up in Xenoblade 2 have models that are closer to their intended design so I think a remake would totally be in that style.
Oof, I don't know if I could stomach a remake if Shulk looked like how he does in XB2.
 
D

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"Shield" and "Buster" are much more descriptive than "Armor"(which in Smash would imply being immune to knockback) and "Enchant"(enchant what exactly?). Easily understanding mechanics is more important than nitpicking with names.
 

Will

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Oof, I don't know if I could stomach a remake if Shulk looked like how he does in XB2.
I don't know if I could stomach Metal Face in XC2 design.
Let alone Fiora's death. I feel like the new artstyle would take away from that.

"Shield" and "Buster" are much more descriptive than "Armor"(which in Smash would imply being immune to knockback) and "Enchant"(enchant what exactly?). Easily understanding mechanics is more important than nitpicking with names.
Why does Smash terms have to take priority than your own series that you're supposed to represent in your own moveset?
Monado Enchant is a literal buff to your strength in XC1. It would be what Buster does. And Buster acts more like Smash in XC1, so I feel like it's just wrapping around the head of it all.
 
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D

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The real issue with Shulk isn't the names of his arts, or him putting away the sword after he attacks with it. No, the real issue is that Shulk can damage another Shulk with the Monado, or damage Metal Face at all. That should be physically impossible.
 
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PeridotGX

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Quick Question: Do you think cross series echoes are possible? Stuff like Blaziken for Falcon, Giygas for Mewtwo, etc.

So, any serious suggestions for more smash banners. I have about 3-5 left in me before I run out of steam on them. If they belong to an established series, it is even easier to add.

and on a side note. I have been starring at the fake website for so long, it is going to feel weird going to the real one. So many dreams on that thing.
One with Kamek would be neat (Yoshi). Also Scribblenauts if you feel like it.
 

Idon

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One idea I'm a fan of are specials being tied to multiple after-inputs for different effects.
So far, I think the only example we have of that in smash is Corrin's Side B when pinned to the ground, which allows him either a forward kick, back kick, jump, or cancel.
Similarly, in Pokken, Mewtwo has a special move called Barrier from which he can activate 4 unique moves in confusion, drain punch, telekinesis, or teleport.

Imagine if by activating Vision, instead of simply smacking the enemy, Shulk had the option of using Monado Arts to counter, fitting the canonical purpose of using the Monado's power to subvert the future.
 

Chrono.

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The real issue with Shulk isn't the names of his arts, or him putting away the sword after he attacks with it. No, the real issue is that Shulk can damage another Shulk with the Monado, or damage Metal Face at all. That should be physically impossible.
Cut Shulk and add Elma.

It's the only way.
 

Will

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Quick Question: Do you think cross series echoes are possible? Stuff like Blaziken for Falcon, Giygas for Mewtwo, etc.
Why not? People argue against it but they can't really disprove that it's plausible to do. We gotta get out of our comfort zone sometimes. :p

The real issue with Shulk isn't the names of his arts, or him putting away the sword after he attacks with it. No, the real issue is that Shulk can damage another Shulk with the Monado, or damage Metal Face at all. That should be physically impossible.
How long does it take until you realize Shulk is pretty much an alien?
Is Rex even a Homs?
 
D

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Imagine if by activating Vision, instead of simply smacking the enemy, Shulk had the option of using Monado Arts to counter, fitting the canonical purpose of using the Monado's power to subvert the future.
I've said this before, but Vision should've functioned like Diavolo's time erasure counter in All-Star Battle. If Shulk's hit, his enemy is frozen for a short period or until Shulk does any attack, then time resumes. It would allow him to retaliate with anything, but with his crap frame data, he'd be unable to get a smash off of a countered jab for example. This would also reference how time freezes when you warn another party member about the vision, and reference the ability to choose any one of their arts. It would also make aerial Vision have a point.
 
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Chrono.

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Quick Question: Do you think cross series echoes are possible? Stuff like Blaziken for Falcon, Giygas for Mewtwo, etc.
I mean, I know the concept wasn't the same back then, but Ganondorf was essentially born from Captain Falcon (and yeah I went with the weirdest wording on purpose.)

I don't think it'd be out of the question to see something like that in Ultimate.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I'd argue Idon's suggestions are more simple than what we have in Smash.
I'm not saying Shulk in Smash and how he's designed is bad, but the made-up Arts and how Gaur Plains isn't even Gaur Plains is just off for me.
I mean, consider that Sakurai is a Fire Emblem fan, yet gives it dull stages and doesn't get some of the character personalities right. He's pretty much like people that, while they're experts on some topics (e.g. Game & Watch in Sakurai's case), on others they only know about it on a surface level, but try to be in depth about it anyway.
 
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