Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[blackghost]

I was't, buuuuut, I don't particularly care if the Smash Ultimate gameplay is just random nonsense like the non-EVO events.

there were a few 1v1s. pickachu skull bash may be armored due to some interactions i saw in some gameplay.
in other news havent seen a completed from a bayonetta since mk leo.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So, do you think the rest of the roster will disappoint you, surpass your expectations, or be in a middle ground?

Everyone is back and ridley's in the game, I'm pretty happy already, although I'd greatly enjoy it if I got at least one of my most wanted

 

[Dixie Kong]

Pichu was also the mascot for the Baby Pokemon and starred in a movie too.

Jigglypuff just had popularity on its side beyond the iconic bits. And fit Kirby's model structure. Mewtwo was meant to be in over Jigglypuff, but it wasn't that easy. So we can be thankful we have 9 Pokemon. Though we might still if Pra_Mai was a Pokemon character in the files.

It would be cool if Sakurai was able to get enough finished of them in Brawl to be able to bring them into Ultimate, even if its just as DLC.

 

[Noipoi]

Reposting this from the character thread. Just wanted to get some thoughts.

This is really interesting. I'm not sure if we can guess remaining newcomers through music but it's interesting to talk about.
Even though characters like Geno, Isabelle, Gen 7 Pokemon, and Shadow are pretty safe guesses.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Why are people so scared of Sora being in Smash? Do people think Disney will insist on having their characters/ universe be represented in some fashion for further advertisement?

 

[Will]

Everyone is back and ridley's in the game, I'm pretty happy already, although I'd greatly enjoy it if I got at least one of my most wanted

I'm assuming you want Dixie but wasn't even your most wanted? They're both complementary, I'm bamboozled.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I really think Incineroar would surprise a lot of people who say they’d hate his inclusion.

As somebody who mainly likes Decidueye and didn’t like Incineroar’s design at first, I have to say that Incineroar could not only be a first-time thing for Smash in being a dedicated grappler, but he could honestly be stupid fun. Again, I was initially against him because I thought he wouldn’t be “interesting”, but then I thought of King from Tekken or Zangief from Street Fighter, and realize how fun it could be.

There’s also the image of a huge fire cat just piledriving characters while sounding like Macho Man Randy Savage or Hulk Hogan.

“Listen brother, you better get ready for my Dankest Darkest Lariat." * Proceeds to low-blow the opponent, stunning them.

The amount of suplexing, dirty wrestling, clotheslining, piledriving, submissions, and other wrestling/grappling type moves would be great. I still think my favorite image is Incineroar running at an opponent, and after the player presses A, he basically swings around behind the opponent, grabs them, and then suplexes them Brock Lesnar style.

At least I think that'd be fun.

 

[Blue7113]

So, do you think the rest of the roster will disappoint you, surpass your expectations, or be in a middle ground?

If all we get is Skull Kid, Elma, Isabelle, and Inceneroar I’ll be disappointed. But if we get Isaac and Banjo I’ll have a heart attack

 

[Iridium]

It's already over. It was beyond nothing.

You know, I'm not expecting anything either, so yeah.

 

[dezeray112]

So, you all are aware of this, right? I just got here.

I've managed to watched today's showcase which didn't show anything special other than seeing a well deserved Ness player beating some of the other players and a player who seemed to ignore the specialty rule of not picking Ryu.

 

[Untouch]

Sakurai is going to surprise everyone and not even put in a gen 7 pokemon at all.

 

[Luigi The President]

Reposting this from the character thread. Just wanted to get some thoughts.

I am so truly shocked seeing the characters being the ones everyone here sees as locks except for Elma/Rex and Jeanne.
(I'm not. I'm not shocked at all.)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Sakurai is going to surprise everyone and not even put in a gen 7 pokemon at all.

Inb4 he puts in no new Pokémon characters

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Reposting this from the character thread. Just wanted to get some thoughts.

People in the Geno thread have discussed the 1 music per franchise theory but I don't really subscribe much into it

I'd love if the site gets an awesome remix of "Beware the Forest Mushrooms" if when Geno is revealed though

 

[Noipoi]

I really think Incineroar would surprise a lot of people who say they’d hate his inclusion.

As somebody who mainly likes Decidueye and didn’t like Incineroar’sdesign at first, I have to say that Incineroar could not only be a first-time thing for Smash in being a dedicated grappler, but he could honestly be stupid fun. Again, I was initially against him because I thought he wouldn’t be “interesting”, but then I thought of King from Tekken or Zangief from Street Fighter, and realize how fun it could be.

There’s also the image of a huge fire cat just piledriving characters while sounding like Macho Man Randy Savage or Hulk Hogan.

“Listen brother, you better get ready for my Dankest Darkest Lariat." * Proceeds to low-blow the opponent, stunning them.

The amount of suplexing, dirty wrestling, clotheslining, piledriving, submissions, and other wrestling/grappling type moves would be great. I still think my favorite image is Incineroar running at an opponent, and after the player presses A, he basically swings around behind the opponent, grabs them, and then suplexes them Brock Lesnar style.

At least I think that'd be fun.

This is exactly why I want Incineroar!
Thank you so, so much for saying what i've always wanted to say!
If only I was better with words.

 

[Aerospherology]

Sakurai is going to surprise everyone and not even put in a gen 7 pokemon at all.

It's a pattern not to have a representative from an odd-numbered generation, except for generation 1.

 

[Untouch]

I'd like Silvally with Gladion in the back like Pokemon Trainer but I don't really expect it.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I'm assuming you want Dixie but wasn't even your most wanted? They're both complementary, I'm bamboozled.

I started playing the DKC series with tropical freeze before playing the older games so I never got any strong attachment to him, and I'm personally not a massive fan of his design (no offence but he's kind of ugly imo ) he's cool though

 

[Cosmic77]

I really think Incineroar would surprise a lot of people who say they’d hate his inclusion.

As somebody who mainly likes Decidueye and didn’t like Incineroar’sdesign at first, I have to say that Incineroar could not only be a first-time thing for Smash in being a dedicated grappler, but he could honestly be stupid fun. Again, I was initially against him because I thought he wouldn’t be “interesting”, but then I thought of King from Tekken or Zangief from Street Fighter, and realize how fun it could be.

There’s also the image of a huge fire cat just piledriving characters while sounding like Macho Man Randy Savage or Hulk Hogan.

“Listen brother, you better get ready for my Dankest Darkest Lariat." * Proceeds to low-blow the opponent, stunning them.

The amount of suplexing, dirty wrestling, clotheslining, piledriving, submissions, and other wrestling/grappling type moves would be great. I still think my favorite image is Incineroar running at an opponent, and after the player presses A, he basically swings around behind the opponent, grabs them, and then suplexes them Brock Lesnar style.

At least I think that'd be fun.

Once you get past the petty people who automatically hate any Pokemon they don't already like, I think Incineroar's struggle to get support isn't because people think he wouldn't be fun, but because they feel like there are options who would be even more fun. Why choose the bipedal wrestler cat who fights with something as overused as fire when you could pick an archer bird who uses arrows and grass?

It's understandable, and honestly, it's all up to Sakurai and his team to prove us wrong. We've created a mental image of Incineroar being a boring addition compared to Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc. Either he suprises us, or he shows us that our concerns weren't baseless after all.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I think we're definitely getting a new pokemon again. We're getting close to must-have newcomers. I'm pretty sure that's the reason for the ballot's existence and why Smash 4 DLC had so many 3rd party picks. Sakurai is going to have to start scraping the bottom of the barrel for new picks soon which is probably why he's just now prioritizing fan favorite picks.

But you know what franchise will never run out of its wealth of potential newcomers? Pokemon. There's so much untapped moveset and character potential in that franchise its not even funny. They'd have to be crazy to pass that up. Even if we don't for some insane reason get a Gen 7 newcomer, I still expect we'll get Sceptile or at least something from that franchise.

 

[Luigi The President]

Wait, are people fooling themselves into even considering we won't get a new Pokemon rep?
it's gonna happen, guys. Personally, I'm fine with it as I love Incineroar.
But most despairing need to consider that Sakurai and his team have had 4 years to work on this game, and we may get a few more characters then most seem to expect.

 

[Noipoi]

I think we're definitely getting a new pokemon again. We're getting close to must-have newcomers. I'm pretty sure that's the reason for the ballot's existence and why Smash 4 DLC had so many 3rd party picks. Sakurai is going to have to start scraping the bottom of the barrel for new picks soon which is probably why he's just now prioritizing fan favorite picks.

But you know what franchise will never run out of its wealth of potential newcomers? Pokemon. There's so much untapped moveset and character potential in that franchise its not even funny. They'd have to be crazy to pass that up. Even if we don't for some insane reason get a Gen 7 newcomer, I still expect we'll get Sceptile or at least something from that franchise.

Even if they stop making Pokemon (which will never happen) it'll take a long time for Smash to run out of Pokemon to use.

 

[Crooked Crow]

Blacephalon for Ultimate? :D

 

[Icedragonadam]

Reposting this from the character thread. Just wanted to get some thoughts.

Pretty plausible.

I think the only series that won't get a song on the page are Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt, Gyromite, Game & Watch, Punch-Out, and Final Fantasy. So that would leave 12 left. Thus around 3 more new franchises left to add.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't hate Incineroar and I'm sure it would be incredibly fun to play as, I just believe Pokemon has a lot more to bring to the table than "fighting game archetype #3"

 

[SmashChu]

This is really interesting. I'm not sure if we can guess remaining newcomers through music but it's interesting to talk about.
Even though characters like Geno, Isabelle, Gen 7 Pokemon, and Shadow are pretty safe guesses.

I'd agree. These fan theories usually go bust but I thought it was interesting enough to share. I think, if anything, it points to two things. First, a new series and second, who might not be in (as they would usually save music for a big announcement). Im actually more confident on a new series being announced as that fits incredibly well. The who and who not could just as easily be coincidence.

People in the Geno thread have discussed the 1 music per franchise theory but I don't really subscribe much into it

I'd love if the site gets an awesome remix of "Beware the Forest Mushrooms" if when Geno is revealed though

Oh, I didn't realize I wasn't the only one who noticed this.

To add to Geno, I read something interesting in regards to talk about characters. Someone noted that a lot of the characters and ideas were mentioned to be either discussed or were planned for the game. This includes Ridley and Chrom (who were at least discussed) and Sakupon and Ditto which were planned items. Geno has also been discussed by Sakurai as well and there was the Mii costume. I think its pretty safe. The music helps as he has a very iconic song.

Pretty plausible.

I think the only series that won't get a song on the page are Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt, Gyromite, Game & Watch, Punch-Out, and Final Fantasy. So that would leave 12 left. Thus around 3 more new franchises left to add.

My theory is that the classic series would all get one song similar to the Galaga Medley. FF will definitely not have a song but I think Punch Out could (think this is really where we would disagree). For reference, here is how I got to the 15 number.

1. Mario, 2. Yoshi 3. Star Fox, 4. Pokemon 5. Earthbound 6. Kid Icarus, 7. Wario Ware 8. Pikmin 9. Sonic 10. Animal Crossing 11. Punch Out 12. Xenoblade 13. Bayonetta 14. Classic Nintendo 15. New Series

 

[P.Kat]

Ok but seriously

How would Gardevoir as a Mewtwo echo even work??

at least there’s no Gothitelle

I can't see it either, at most we can get a Zelda echo and have Gallade become her Down B.

 

[Luigi The President]

Pretty plausible.

I think the only series that won't get a song on the page are Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt, Gyromite, Game & Watch, Punch-Out, and Final Fantasy. So that would leave 12 left. Thus around 3 more new franchises left to add.

Dang, all I can imagine is one new franchise with Golden Sun. What could those other two be?

I don't hate Incineroar and I'm sure it would be incredibly fun to play as, I just believe Pokemon has a lot more to bring to the table than "fighting game archetype #3"

Except...he doesn't have to be a full-on grappler, as most here keep assuming he'd be. He could easily have some cool Dark-type moves slipped into his moveset as well.

 

[Noipoi]

Blacephalon for Ultimate? :D

Only if these are it's taunts.

Spoiler

HEE HEE

 

[Guynamednelson]

It would be cool if Sakurai was able to get enough finished of them in Brawl to be able to bring them into Ultimate, even if its just as DLC.

I wonder if Roy's animations in 4/Ultimate were gonna be used in Brawl. He was one of those forbidden seven.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Alfonzo

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Would echo fighters be profitable if they were DLC? Imagine someone like Trevor Belmont being a DLC echo fighter. Would the profit be enough and what price range would they have to be for you to buy it? Would you buy all echos who come out as DLC?

 

[Deleted member]

Dang, all I can imagine is one new franchise with Golden Sun. What could those other two be?


Except...he doesn't have to be a full-on grappler, as most here keep assuming he'd be. He could easily have some cool Dark-type moves slipped into his moveset as well.

But his moveset theme would be grappler, there's no way around that and one special won't change it.
When I see the potential Pokemon, I see
Ghost archer with grass moves
Non-bipedal singer
Dancing bird
Geokinesis fighter on all fours
Whatever the **** Mimikyu is
Grappler with fire effects

 

[Rayman001]

Oh my goodness are we still discussing Lycanroc? I went to bed and you hooligans are still going on.

Wait no, even WORSE, are we STILL discussing Gothitelle?

You know.
From the leak that NAMEDROPPED SIMON AS NOT BEING IN THE GAME.
Which disproves it more than almost every leak I see get disproved around here.

(btw lycanroc fans i think hes sick dont stop believing but also gothitelle has got to stop gang)

I think you can't use Simon being namedropped as an argument for why this is fake. Don't get me wrong, I don't really believe this either, but it's because if the story from that leaker was true and he got the game, if he just saw Richter and not Simon, of course he'd just assume Simon is not in the game.

Why would Richter be in the code while Simon wasn't? Maybe because they were more secretive of Simon than Richter? Or maybe Simon was originally an Echo of Richter? Richter is more popular in Japan and Sakurai did say that it's hard to say who is really echoing who in the Direct.

I'll repeat myself and say that I don't believe this leak, but I don't think this in particular 100% disconfirms it, either.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Would echo fighters be profitable if they were DLC? Imagine someone like Trevor Belmont being a DLC echo fighter. Would the profit be enough and what price range would they have to be for you to buy it? Would you buy all echos who come out as DLC?

They'd be cheap to make, so they could sell them for cheap as well. Maybe for like, a buck.

Or they could hand one or two out as free DLC. It'd build good will with the fans and hwlp bring attention to whatever payed DLC they're marketing at the time.

And finally, if any DLC newcomer they work on would work as an echo, they could bundle them together as one purchase.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Can we please stop reviving that now fake rumor please.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I really think Incineroar would surprise a lot of people who say they’d hate his inclusion.

As somebody who mainly likes Decidueye and didn’t like Incineroar’s design at first, I have to say that Incineroar could not only be a first-time thing for Smash in being a dedicated grappler, but he could honestly be stupid fun. Again, I was initially against him because I thought he wouldn’t be “interesting”, but then I thought of King from Tekken or Zangief from Street Fighter, and realize how fun it could be.

There’s also the image of a huge fire cat just piledriving characters while sounding like Macho Man Randy Savage or Hulk Hogan.

“Listen brother, you better get ready for my Dankest Darkest Lariat." * Proceeds to low-blow the opponent, stunning them.

The amount of suplexing, dirty wrestling, clotheslining, piledriving, submissions, and other wrestling/grappling type moves would be great. I still think my favorite image is Incineroar running at an opponent, and after the player presses A, he basically swings around behind the opponent, grabs them, and then suplexes them Brock Lesnar style.

At least I think that'd be fun.

I will admit, I'd be a bit disappointed at first if Incineroar is the Gen VII Pokemon newcomer, as I much prefer Decidueye and Lycanroc. I just see more interesting moveset potential in them. One is an avian archer with access to plant abilities, the other a wolf with geokinesis. I see much more depth with them and their potential movesets, whereas with Incineroar, I just see a big wrestling tiger.

That said, I won't lie and say that Incineroar doesn't have redeemable qualities. Incineroar could have plenty of ridiculous and fun moves in his kit. Both the games and the show give him plenty of material and personality to work with, too. Hell, I never saw his Z-Move until earlier today, but I laughed my ass off because how hilariously over-the-top is was. It's that kind of over-the-top fun that could make Incineroar one of my favorite characters in Smash history if executed well enough.

That's the thing though. I feel that a wrestling/grappling moveset could go either way. Depending on how he's implemented, Incineroar could end up being an over-the-top fun grappler, or a generic wrestler that just falls flat. With Decidueye and Lycanroc, I see much more depth with what they bring to the table, and feel that they have little to no risk of falling flat. In the end, it just depends on how Sakurai and the development team create him in Smash, assuming they chose him in the first place.

 

[P.Kat]

I beg to differ.

"Mr. Game & Watch" appeared in the Game & Watch Gallery series, specifically the Classic Versions of the Games (the Mario series characters did the Modern Versions).

"So beautiful... should have sent a poet."

P.Kat: 153 characters are just right for me.
Sakurai: *whimpers*

Don't worry Sakurai, after the 153rd character, I will never ask you for anything ever again... Until the next Smash game that is *maniacal laugh*

 

[ColietheGoalie]

People in the Geno thread have discussed the 1 music per franchise theory but I don't really subscribe much into it

I'd love if the site gets an awesome remix of "Beware the Forest Mushrooms" if when Geno is revealed though

Isn’t that one of the songs that was cut from Brawl at the last minute? Is that a Geno song?

 

[Luigi The President]

But his moveset theme would be grappler, there's no way around that and one special won't change it.
When I see the potential Pokemon, I see
Ghost archer with grass moves
Non-bipedal singer
Dancing bird
Geokinesis fighter on all fours
Whatever the **** Mimikyu is
Grappler with fire effects

Not sure why we're assuming this when Sakurai has worked his magic on characters like that before. I think you're assuming a bit too much right before he's even been revealed, if he's even in the game.

I think you can't use Simon being namedropped as an argument for why this is fake. Don't get me wrong, I don't really believe this either, but it's because if the story from that leaker was true and he got the game, if he just saw Richter and not Simon, of course he'd just assume Simon is not in the game.

Why would Richter be in the code while Simon wasn't? Maybe because they were more secretive of Simon than Richter? Or maybe Simon was originally an Echo of Richter? Richter is more popular in Japan and Sakurai did say that it's hard to say who is really echoing who in the Direct.

I'll repeat myself and say that I don't believe this leak, but I don't think this in particular 100% disconfirms it, either.

And I think it 100% does. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Why would they not be secretive about both? Both are popular third parties who would both spoil the surprise that Castlevania is in the game in any format. And the "Simon was an Echo" theory is, quite frankly, exhausting and I'm pretty sure the effort they would've had to switch the Echo format for these two would've outweighed the possibility of them doing it.
But thank you for your perspective! (Genuinely)