Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TMNTSSB4]

Spoiler: Alfonzo

I feel bad for Purple Link

Great memories of this song though

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Isn’t that one of the songs that was cut from Brawl at the last minute? Is that a Geno song?

It's not Geno's theme, but it's been associated with him - Even by Nintendo because it's the song that plays in the area you recruit Geno. You have to follow him through a maze. And it's kind of frustrating so people that like Mario RPG have heard that song quite a bit, lol

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure why we're assuming this when Sakurai has worked his magic on characters like that before. I think you're assuming a bit too much right before he's even been revealed, if he's even in the game.

Again, how it's implemented doesn't matter because I know it'll be fun, the base theme of Incineroar itself and what would centralize his moveset IS grappler/wrestler, which I find much less interesting than what could be done with the other Gen 7 candidates, it'll feel like wasted potential when, yeah, we got this cool Pokemon BUT we could have gotten a MUCH BETTER one.

 

[Luigi The President]

Again, how it's implemented doesn't matter because I know it'll be fun, the base theme of Incineroar itself and what would centralize his moveset IS grappler/wrestler, which I find much less interesting than what could be done with the other Gen 7 candidates, it'll feel like wasted potential when, yeah, we got this cool Pokemon BUT we could have gotten a MUCH BETTER one.

Again, you keep insisting on this when him having a split dark-type moveset could also factor in. We'll just have to see what happens.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

It's not Geno's theme, but it's been associated with him - Even by Nintendo because it's the song that plays in the area you recruit Geno. You have to follow him through a maze. And it's kind of frustrating so people that like Mario RPG have heard that song quite a bit, lol

Interesting. Maybe he was closer to getting into Brawl than we thought...

 

[Will]

Spoiler: Alfonzo

nice but wheres black shadow

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Again, how it's implemented doesn't matter because I know it'll be fun, the base theme of Incineroar itself and what would centralize his moveset IS grappler/wrestler, which I find much less interesting than what could be done with the other Gen 7 candidates, it'll feel like wasted potential when, yeah, we got this cool Pokemon BUT we could have gotten a MUCH BETTER one.

Yeah, it makes him quite similar to Heihachi in that regard. The most likely choice in their category, but far from the most interesting character that could be chosen from the pool.

 

[Pakky]

nice but wheres black shadow

Already made, but not by me, I made Deathborn though.

 

[Nazyrus]

I could swear this thread is more and more close to being 90% pokemon talk at this point, lol

 

[Zippo]

Just wanted to say after watching them all, Digital Frontier is the absolute best animation studio in the gaming industry, no question. Better than Square. Better than Marza. They worked on my favorite Smash 4 trailers.

The amount of love, care, detail and expertise that they put into these trailers is phenomenal.

The Mega Man and Simon trailers still give me chills. The Tekken CG is just as incredible.

 

[Icedragonadam]

UFotable's quality of animation is also very impressive. I hope if Lloyd does make it in, that they'll be ones animating his trailer. Production I.G is still good but Tales of Xillia's animated cutscenes were just so amazing.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Is it likely we'll get a Pokemon, and from Gen 7? Yes. Is it a lock? Absolutely not. The roster is being treated differently this time. It's a smaller roster so that all veterans can return. Returning veterans can be considered "newcomers", which takes the place of the six or so more unique newcomers than we would usually get. We got Pichu and Pokemon Trainer back, and the latter covers the fire/grass/water types that tend to be the popular choices. I've never been a fan of the thought process of having a rep for the sake of a rep.

And Gen 7 is in a fuzzy area where it's leaning hard on Gen 1 nostalgia, so Pokemon Trainer being Ultimate's "Pokemon rep" makes sense. Yes, there is no shortage of Pokemon that could work in the game--but it's also part of the problem, because there isn't a single stand-out.

All that having being said, I wouldn't be surprised by a Pokemon rep--but I would be disappointed that it's "slot" could be better served going to a first party character in a series that has yet to be represented.

 

[Will]

Just wanted to say after watching them all, Digital Frontier is the absolute best animation studio in the gaming industry, no question. Better than Square. Better than Marza. They worked on my favorite Smash 4 trailers.

The amount love, care, detail and expertise that they put into these trailers is phenomenal.

The Mega Man and Simon trailers still give me chills. The Tekken CG is just as incredible.

I wonder who made the Little Mac animation. ngl its kinda half lazy

 

[Deleted member]

Hypest Smash trailer was definitely Robin's. Goddamnit, I replayed that **** so many times.

UFotable's quality of animation is also very impressive. I hope if Lloyd does make it in, that they'll be ones animating his trailer. Production I.G is still good but Tales of Xillia's animated cutscenes were just so amazing.

Nah, if we get an Ufotable trailer, it's obviously gonna be Saber

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

I could swear this thread is more and more close to being 90% pokemon talk at this point, lol

Honestly, I hope the Pokémon newcomer is the next reveal, I think it is about time now.

 

[Wambo]

It'd be amazing if the cut Brawl song made it in with Geno. It has a "forgotten" vibe to it, so seeing it come in with a "forgotten" character like Geno would warm my friggin' heart.

 

[Luigi The President]

Is it likely we'll get a Pokemon, and from Gen 7? Yes. Is it a lock? Absolutely not. The roster is being treated differently this time. It's a smaller roster so that all veterans can return. Returning veterans can be considered "newcomers", which takes the place of the six or so more unique newcomers than we would usually get. We got Pichu and Pokemon Trainer back, and the latter covers the fire/grass/water types that tend to be the popular choices. I've never been a fan of the thought process of having a rep for the sake of a rep.

And Gen 7 is in a fuzzy area where it's leaning hard on Gen 1 nostalgia, so Pokemon Trainer being Ultimate's "Pokemon rep" makes sense. Yes, there is no shortage of Pokemon that could work in the game--but it's also part of the problem, because there isn't a single stand-out.

All that having being said, I wouldn't be surprised by a Pokemon rep--but I would be disappointed that it's "slot" could be better served going to a first party character in a series that has yet to be represented.

Why exactly can we consider returning veterans newcomers, though?
I feel they definitely took less work than a unique newcomer. They already had very much a basis, a model to work off of, voice lines to work off of, even an intro and colors, the little stuff. Wouldn't they have the same work as, say, a semi-clone? I'm sure this is just ignorant, though, and I'd love to hear the specifics of how so.

I don't necessarily want a Gen 7 rep. I mean, Paper Mario's my number one, I'm definitely feeling the unrepresented first party blues.
But I feel it's kind of a given.

 

[Will]

It'd be amazing if the cut Brawl song made it in with Geno. It has a "forgotten" vibe to it, so seeing it come in with a "forgotten" character like Geno would warm my friggin' heart.

oof that signature triggers me bruv

Was Forest Maze cut?

 

[Deleted member]

I think the top Gen 7 representatives are Decidueye and Incineroar.

Also, that leak seemed to put Incineroar in favor, but keep in mind that Decidueye is more popular than Incineroar.

 

[Deleted member]

We need more female representation so it's time to add...

Jellyfish sisters as echoes!

 

[Luigi The President]

I think the top Gen 7 representatives are Decidueye and Incineroar.

Also, that leak seemed to put Incineroar in favor, but keep in mind that Decidueye is more popular than Incineroar.

Which would've been irrelevant in 2015 when the roster was decided, no?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I still think Sivally could be a darkhorse Gen 7 rep, given all it's different abilities and elements. Heck, you could even have Gladion in the background to swap the memory discs and act all edgy.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I think we're not getting Pokemon rep if any exist until the final Smash Direct before the game's release.

I expect a dump of newcomers there.

And by a dump I mean the last few unique newcomers like 2 or 3, with the rest of the echos.

I expect we'll get 1 unique newcomer before that though and it won't be the Pokemon. I feel as if the Pokemon is being saved to drum up hype. Even if it is Incineroar and this community seems to be scared of it as a playable fighter.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Why exactly can we consider returning veterans newcomers, though?
I feel they definitely took less work than a unique newcomer. They already had very much a basis, a model to work off of, voice lines to work off of, even an intro and colors, the little stuff. Wouldn't they have the same work as, say, a semi-clone? I'm sure this is just ignorant, though, and I'd love to hear the specifics of how so.

I don't necessarily want a Gen 7 rep. I mean, Paper Mario's my number one, I'm definitely feeling the unrepresented first party blues.
But I feel it's kind of a given.

I'm ignorant as well the intricacies of developing a character, and so I'm going based off of Sakurai's words. He said not to expect too many newcomers, and to me, the implication is that having all of the returning veterans come back required a limited amount of unique newcomers. And mathematically, it works out if we get 8-9 unique newcomers. Add the veterans, and the roster looks more closely to what we would usually expect. There's always the possibility that he was setting our expectations low only to surprise us, and if that's the case, I see no problem with a Pokemon newcomer. But if the roster is as limited as he suggests, I'd rather have Isaac over Lycanroc and expand the amount of new series covered.

 

[Will]

I think the top Gen 7 representatives are Decidueye and Incineroar.

Also, that leak seemed to put Incineroar in favor, but keep in mind that Decidueye is more popular than Incineroar.

Is this global truth that spans within ALL countries or is it just one part of the world?

 

[Paperchampion23]

Which would've been irrelevant in 2015 when the roster was decided, no?

Yup, Pokemon would probably be one of the few newcomers irrelevant to the Ballot because Gen 7 didn't technically exist yet. If Gamefreak was pushing Incineroar, then there's nothing anyone could do about that.

 

[Wambo]

oof that signature triggers me bruv

Was Forest Maze cut?

Forest Maze was never in Brawl, so it was always cut. It was found in the game's files or something.

 

[Deleted member]

Was Forest Maze cut?

Leaning towards no. We have two unused Mario tracks in Brawl which are
snd_bgm_A11_MLRPG02
snd_bgm_A12_MORINOKINOKO

It's impossible to tell what the first one is, but it's likely from Partners in Time. The other song's name translates to "mushroom forest" and as such, could the theme from any location with that name, though it does match the Japanese name of Toadwood Forest, also from Partners in Time.

Forest Maze was never in Brawl, so it was always cut. It was found in the game's files or something.

This is untrue, all the unused music files in Brawl are empty.

 

[RileyXY1]

Is this global truth that spans within ALL countries or is it just one part of the world?

In fact, in that one poll, Incineroar actually ranked higher than Decidueye, with Primarina outranking both of them. But, popularity is not a determining factor at all in terms of the Gen 7 rep (if there is one).

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The famous remix of BtFM that's passed around is from an OST CD IIRC

 

[Deleted member]

I just wonder how many of the early concept art Sakurai had access to. With Greninja, he at least had Delphox and Chesnaught, that's for sure. We can be sure he'd have the new starters but what about the others? And I also wonder if he would want to mix it up a bit by oicking a non-starter.

 

[Xgears]

Although unlikely, which character in a Final Smash would you like to see playable?

I'd like to see X or Mega Man EXE.
Maybe Flora.

 

[Pakky]

I think the top Gen 7 representatives are Decidueye and Incineroar.

Also, that leak seemed to put Incineroar in favor, but keep in mind that Decidueye is more popular than Incineroar.

Hearsay, where's your proof?

And that would be relevant when the project plan was in place kinda like

 

[lightdrago]

I think the top Gen 7 representatives are Decidueye and Incineroar.

Also, that leak seemed to put Incineroar in favor, but keep in mind that Decidueye is more popular than Incineroar.

Not true. At least in Japan.

Spoiler

Incineroar is near the top, while Decidueye is nowhere to be found.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Reposting this from the character thread. Just wanted to get some thoughts.

The song theory is interesting, but I don't like it. Namely since it implies that we're not getting a Zelda character again.

Then again, there are several franchises that have a new remix in their character trailers:

Outside of the two already mentioned [], ultdiddy: also use new arrangements that aren't on the site.

Now did get a song from their franchise on the site, just not the one in their trailer...only because they were two of the first four songs up on E3 day. Same with ultrichter:, who are in the same series as a recent confirm, but that song still didn't go up. Notably, has nothing (her trailer uses a direct port), so we're not getting a song per newcomer (also we only got one a series, despite two Metroidvania newcomers)

Daisy's song is a direct port from Mario Tennis Ultra Smash

but it seems weird that we're not getting a new Mario Land (or any Mario) remixes. True, they could be saving that for another Mario newcomer.

Again, my issue is that this theory implies preexisting Zelda song = no Zelda newcomer, but the song they did put up is a remix from BotW, which they used to show off the Great Plateau stage (remember that New Donk was not in the demo build). Thus, there could be a Zelda newcomer, probably not a BotW one. If we assume Skull Kid, then they may just not put up his song. But then again, Fire Emblem was represented by Heroes, which has little to do with .

Just a few thoughts. I'm more in the camp that they're not expressly planning to do a song for each newcomer, but it makes sense as long as it fits. Still, they'll shy away from doubling series on the music page. Thus, I don't think an existing track disconfirms a newcomer from a series, but a newcomer from any series that has an existing track probably won't get a new remix up.

---

So, do you think the rest of the roster will disappoint you, surpass your expectations, or be in a middle ground?

The roster is fantastic as is. I love that mah boi Squirtle is finally back, and Ridley/K.Rool are most welcome.

However...

My 'most wanted' list could easily double for a 'less-than-zero chance to get into Smash' list. Meanwhile, I have very little connection/nostalgia/excitement for most of the names currently thrown around as most likely. Thus, I think the rest of the roster will be kinda disappointing to me personally. Sure, if they throw a curveball and surprise me with one of my most wanted, I'll be doing an Etika, but as it stands I'm not too hyped by many character with high chances we've gone over.

 

[Deleted member]

Not true. At least in Japan.

Spoiler

Incineroar is near the top, while Decidueye is nowhere to be found.

I guess you can say with Rowlette and stuff, but you kind of got a point.

 

[Deleted member]

The famous remix of BtFM that's passed around is from an OST CD IIRC

None of the "lost tracks" are genuine because the files are blank.

 

[Will]

In fact, in that one poll, Incineroar actually ranked higher than Decidueye, with Primarina outranking both of them. But, popularity is not a determining factor at all in terms of the Gen 7 rep (if there is one).

I know it doesn't necessarily matter, but I was asking for sake of clarification. Everyone is relying on these polls on fansites to show that "hey, they totally deserve that spot!". I'm always iffy about it, because that's only one part of the globe.

And does relevancy matter if they're trying to promote a Pokemon? They're not on the face of the boxart and they certainly aren't pushed to convince people to buy Pokemon stuff, so does it matter?

Maybe Flora.

Her name is Fiora you uncultured Xenogears player.

 

[Deleted member]

The cut Brawl music isn't Beware of the Forest Mushrooms, pretty sure there was a SourceGaming article disproving that idea but I can't be bothered to look for it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Although unlikely, which character in a Final Smash would you like to see playable?

I'd like to see X or Mega Man EXE.
Maybe Flora.

I’d say either Bass, Fiora or Kumatora.