Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Noipoi]

Is it wrong that I actually kinda want Alfonzo as the ultimate joke character now?
I don't even know how he'd fight.

You put the controller down and leave it to him.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Does Lycanroc have anything going for it other than being pushed by the anime over any other random Pokemon? It has a boring design and is mediocre at best in battles. It wasn't even a common Pokemon in gen 7 so I don't think a lot of people who just played the games will have a connection to it at all. I really don't think gen 7 gave us any designs particularly suited to playability other than starters and UBs, and within the UBs you have some truly bizarre Pokemon so I'd be kinda surprised if they went there though Nihilego was one of the most important Pokemon within gen 7 and is also a rock type so if you really love rock types it would be who I'd be rooting for. That being said, if we take the leaks with enough of a grain of salt, the general mediocrity of our option pool in gen 7 is not a terrible argument for Ultimate breaking the trend and being the first Smash game without a newcomer from Pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it wrong that I actually kinda want Alfonzo as the ultimate joke character now?
I don't even know how he'd fight.

We simply leave the moveset to him.

As far as Pokemon go overall though, I kinda...don't want one...? I dunno, it's a hard question for me. I kiiiiiinda want Lycanroc (Midnight preferably), but Pokemon newcomers don't really get me super hyped anymore. I really wish they could, but they don't really ATM. Maybe when I see the inevitable Pokemon newcomer in action I'll get hyped.

 

[Pakky]

You know what that means.

"Leave it to me!"

Sigh... BRB cuz now I gotta.

 

[Roberk]

Is it wrong that I actually kinda want Alfonzo as the ultimate joke character now?
I don't even know how he'd fight.

But then who will take Alfonso's place while he's fighting?

Dark Alfonso: "Ugh, I'll do it."

 

[Will]

You put the controller down and leave it to him.

Sounds a lot more like Psycho Mantis.

You could look at Hyrule Warrior's Toon Link using the train-staff weapon. Just summon a buncha trains to ram into people basically.

That's the Sand Wand, though. The Train is just an extra that can happen.

**** it, make him off Byrne.

 

[Noipoi]

Does Lycanroc have anything going for it other than being pushed by the anime over any other random Pokemon? It has a boring design and is mediocre at best in battles. It wasn't even a common Pokemon in gen 7 so I don't think a lot of people who just played the games will have a connection to it at all. I really don't think gen 7 gave us any designs particularly suited to playability other than starters and UBs, and within the UBs you have some truly bizarre Pokemon so I'd be kinda surprised if they went there though Nihilego was one of the most important Pokemon within gen 7 and is also a rock type so if you really love rock types it would be who I'd be rooting for. That being said, if we take the leaks with enough of a grain of salt, the general mediocrity of our option pool in gen 7 is not a terrible argument for Ultimate breaking the trend and being the first Smash game without a newcomer from Pokemon.

Just because you think they're mediocre doesn't mean they are. I personally think all the options for Gen 7 are pretty interesting, and even that doesn't matter. It all depends on if Sakurai thinks it'd be unique.

 

[StormC]

Does Lycanroc have anything going for it other than being pushed by the anime over any other random Pokemon? It has a boring design and is mediocre at best in battles. It wasn't even a common Pokemon in gen 7 so I don't think a lot of people who just played the games will have a connection to it at all. I really don't think gen 7 gave us any designs particularly suited to playability other than starters and UBs, and within the UBs you have some truly bizarre Pokemon so I'd be kinda surprised if they went there though Nihilego was one of the most important Pokemon within gen 7 and is also a rock type so if you really love rock types it would be who I'd be rooting for. That being said, if we take the leaks with enough of a grain of salt, the general mediocrity of our option pool in gen 7 is not a terrible argument for Ultimate breaking the trend and being the first Smash game without a newcomer from Pokemon.

The argument for a gen 7 Pokemon being in the game is the same as always, that TPC has an active interest in promoting the most recent generation in the biggest crossover event in video game history. I'm sure Sakurai would have fun designing characters like Incineroar for Smash, so I dunno if he'll say no.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'll say it again, Gen 7 are not my favorite pokemon aesthetically or design wise, but they fleshed out the lore, personalities and abilities of most pokemon more then they ever did before. Their designs tend to be fantastic in that regard.

Although Lycanroc tends to be on the "fleshed out lore and personalities" side more then the "fleshed out abilities" side while all the starters tend to excel in both.

Silvally's existence is a crime against nature.

That didn't stop a different pokemon before! needs friends.

 

[Deleted member]

That didn't stop a different pokemon before! needs friends.

He has

 

[Noipoi]

I'll say it again, Gen 7 are not my favorite pokemon aesthetically or design wise, but they fleshed out the lore, personalities and abilities of most pokemon more then they ever did before. Their designs tend to be fantastic in that regard.

Although Lycanroc tends to be on the "fleshed out lore and personalities" side more then the "fleshed out abilities" side while all the starters tend to excel in both.
That didn't stop a different pokemon before! needs friends.

Mewtwo and Silvally being genetic abomination buddies is something I didn't know I needed.

 

[Roberk]

Does Lycanroc have anything going for it other than being pushed by the anime over any other random Pokemon? It has a boring design and is mediocre at best in battles. It wasn't even a common Pokemon in gen 7 so I don't think a lot of people who just played the games will have a connection to it at all. I really don't think gen 7 gave us any designs particularly suited to playability other than starters and UBs, and within the UBs you have some truly bizarre Pokemon so I'd be kinda surprised if they went there though Nihilego was one of the most important Pokemon within gen 7 and is also a rock type so if you really love rock types it would be who I'd be rooting for. That being said, if we take the leaks with enough of a grain of salt, the general mediocrity of our option pool in gen 7 is not a terrible argument for Ultimate breaking the trend and being the first Smash game without a newcomer from Pokemon.

I mean I like the idea of a fully quadrupedal dog who has geokinesis. (Duck Hunt doesn't scratch that dog itch because it's more of a Looney Toons character.)

Either way, a new Pokemon is always a safe bet tbh. If Inkling was guaranteed, then a new Pokemon is next on the totem pole for likeliness. It's Pokemon for Pete's sake, with how much the Smash community argues sales I'm surprised that the idea of no new Pokemon is commonly occurring within speculation.

 

[RandomAce]

That seems weird when it doesn't do that in the games or anime. They didn't take away Pichu's self-damage because that's supposed to be part of its lore, so I don't think they'd invent an ability for Lycanroc to change forms.

You don’t need to have one Lycanroc change forms. Just have two different Lycanrocs with their respective Midday and Midnight forms and have you switch between them.

Although I can see why it will be a little bit of a stretch to have Midday and Midnight playable together in one moveset, it would be nice since it would give people who like Lycanroc the chance to be able as the form they want, and there’s always something nice about having the abilites and playstyles of both forms but with different execution with one being more stronger and the other more faster.

 

[Cosmic77]

Does Lycanroc have anything going for it other than being pushed by the anime over any other random Pokemon? It has a boring design and is mediocre at best in battles. It wasn't even a common Pokemon in gen 7 so I don't think a lot of people who just played the games will have a connection to it at all. I really don't think gen 7 gave us any designs particularly suited to playability other than starters and UBs, and within the UBs you have some truly bizarre Pokemon so I'd be kinda surprised if they went there though Nihilego was one of the most important Pokemon within gen 7 and is also a rock type so if you really love rock types it would be who I'd be rooting for. That being said, if we take the leaks with enough of a grain of salt, the general mediocrity of our option pool in gen 7 is not a terrible argument for Ultimate breaking the trend and being the first Smash game without a newcomer from Pokemon.

Here's the objective material - Lycanroc was featured in TCG, it was used in the early promotion of both Su/Mo and US/UM, and all three Lycanroc forms have had notable roles in the anime. None of this is debatable. None of this is mere opinions.

Saying Lycanroc looks boring and is bad in battles is subjective; it's an opinion that differs from person to person, just like how you claimed that Nihilego is one of the most important Pokemon of Gen 7. How you look at something doesn't mean Sakurai or others will see it the same way.

 

[Deleted member]

bad in battles is subjective

Nah, this can be pretty objective. Some Pokemon just simply aren't as good as others. I don't know what the Gen 7 tier list is like, so I don't know how Lycanroc fairs.

 

[MrRoidley]

As far as Pokémon goes, after the deconfirmation of Meowth and especially Mimikyu, I kind of don't want a new one lol
ok to be fair, the only ones that would give me some kind of major hype are Gardevoir, or Raichu as a Pikachu echo (plus Darmanitan or Gengar, my all time favs, but I guess they're out of question)
Other than that, I guess Zeraora would be cool??? All I can say is that I definitely won't like the other big requested/speculated options (Decidueye, Lycanroc, Incineroar, Buzzwole, Sceptile, etc)

 

[Opossum]

Nah, this can be pretty objective. Some Pokemon just simply aren't as good as others. I don't know what the Gen 7 tier list is like, so I don't know how Lycanroc fairs.

As a general rule, Alola Pokémon tend to be on the lower end due to their awkwardly low speed compared to other generations. Exceptions exist, of course.

 

[Will]

As a general rule, Alola Pokémon tend to be on the lower end due to their awkwardly low speed compared to other generations. Exceptions exist, of course.

I always ran Dewpider when I still remembered how do to competitive VGC. High Sp. Def made him hella beefy.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

It'd be cool, but it ain't gonna happen. We got an Amphibian and that's the best we're gonna get.
Besides, a flaming heel wrestler and an earth-bending dog are cool.

It’s one of those things where once I got my hands on them in Smash, I’m sure they’d be fun to play (all the Pokémon are), but as concepts? Really dull in my humble opinion.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Nah, this can be pretty objective. Some Pokemon just simply aren't as good as others. I don't know what the Gen 7 tier list is like, so I don't know how Lycanroc fairs.

Their stats and movepools are disappointingly lackluster. Midday and Midnight form are both PU tier (yeah PU is a pun) while Dusk form is RU (rarely used) tier. Their stats are fairly underwhelming. Midday and Dusk both have speed and power, but they aren't the fastest or the strongest and they have zero bulk to speak of. Midnight form has middling bulk and middling speed, which when combined make a pokemon that's still pretty underwhelming. Not to mention that none of them have much in the way of moveset flexibility.

However, I don't think this would hold back their chances in Smash at all. We have Pichu and Jigglypuff afterall.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I am extremely doubtful they consider competitive efficiency when choosing which Pokemon to put in the games.
'd

 

[Cosmic77]

I am extremely doubtful they consider competitive efficiency when choosing which Pokemon to put in the games.

"Mascot or not, you're just not OP enough to be in Smash, Pikachu!"

 

[BluePikmin11]

One thing I will never be able to guess is what Pokemon designs will strike Sakurai the most to make that Pokemon a playable fighter in Smash. There is no concrete answers to his preferences, even in Sakurai interviews, only the striking designs of Greninja and Lucario to go off of.

I will openly say this at the least, out of all the Alola Pokemon that are getting notably pushed in every Pokemon media, Incineroar and Midnight Lycanroc's design concept have an impressive enough character design to entice Sakurai to make them fighters.

 

[Deleted member]

However, I don't think this would hold back their chances in Smash at all. We have Pichu and Jigglypuff afterall.

I am extremely doubtful they consider competitive efficiency when choosing which Pokemon to put in the games.

Absolutely. There's no reason to hold a Pokemon back just because they aren't good. I was just pointing out that how good Pokemon are can be pretty objective.

 

[Untouch]

Yes they absolutely looked up tiers of a game that wasn't released to decide what pokemon is in, that's why Landrous-T is playable.
Anyways like I said before I don't think merchandising push is going to hint towards a character being playable, LGPE are releasing before ultimate is out so they'll be shifting merch focus to that, and then to gen 8 shortly afterwards.

 

[Will]

Yes they absolutely looked up tiers of a game that wasn't released to decide what pokemon is in, that's why Landrous-T is playable.

Tougon never said competitive viability is how they chose Pokemon, he only said you can objectively say one Pokemon is better than another.

 

[ZephyrZ]

It's amazing how Sakurai predicted that was going to be viable one all the way back in Brawl, loooooooong before Mega Evolution was ever revealed.

Or maybe that's why he made Zard suck back then...hm...

Tougon never said competitive viability is how they chose Pokemon, he only said you can objectively say one Pokemon is better than another.

Yeah, we know. But this topic came up because someone else suggested that Lycanroc was an uninteresting pick in part because it was a poor fighter.

 

[KMDP]

never appeared past 1980

I beg to differ.

"Mr. Game & Watch" appeared in the Game & Watch Gallery series, specifically the Classic Versions of the Games (the Mario series characters did the Modern Versions).

Ah, a riddle that subtly describe a potential character...

It's, It's so *sniff* beautiful. You even added Ammy... rarely anyone does that T_T. Well surely It can't any better than th-

You call this worst? This... this roster is the quintessence of Smash enlightenment, Smash Nirvana, if this was our roster I would want no longer.

"So beautiful... should have sent a poet."

P.Kat: 153 characters are just right for me.
Sakurai: *whimpers*

I'm surprised nobody has commented on my inclusion of Charlotte.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Amazing Ampharos Pokemon and Fire Emblem are two series that get a pass on picking the flavor of the week simply because those franchises are all about flavor of the week - It's something I've just grown to accept and embrace, and it's fair since new players may play a FE/Pokemon game and wonder where their favorite is, or equally as bad, come from a Pokemon/FE game and wonder why there isn't a character from it on the roster.

Now the question comes down to who's the most interesting, but Pokemon wise, I kinda went over why Incineroar would probably be the 'easy' choice.

"In this video we got the old analysis machine running for this hour long showcase. Stay tuned for the 7 other parts as this **** is too much for one video"

accurate. can't wait.

Pokémon is the only expected franchise with no clear candidate. I would say stop guessing and just hope thatyour speculated pokemon appears in a future direct.

Not necessarily.

We can pretty much dissect the obvious choices based on the direct. Anything else is hogwash, but it's very easy to dissect Lycanroc, Decidueye, and Incineroar as the 'defacto 3'. If anything beyond that's picked? Sure? At least we narrowed speculation down so we're not discussing 100 different flavors.

The reason Greninja was so hard to guess is we didn't have much idea of what X/Y's marketing was gonna look like until after he was announced, and everyone was tunneling Zoroark. Back then, we didn't know 1. What would be done w/ Pokemon Trainer 2. That a Gen 6 was even on the table.

 

[Dixie Kong]

So, do you think the rest of the roster will disappoint you, surpass your expectations, or be in a middle ground?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I don't think the Pokemon should be too random. There's a difference between picking someone unexpected and picking someone who makes little to no sense.

But if that doesn't bother you, then Gothitelle might actually be the perfect Pokemon for you.

As far as pokemon goes the most "random" we have is jigglypuff, but even then they had a rather iconic role in the anime, and it was also 1999, sakurai's decision making has changed drastically.

Other than that we have the mascot, the mascot's baby form, a pokemon that starred in a movie, another that starred in a movie, 3 starters smushed into one slot and another starter.

 

[Iridium]

So, you all are aware of this, right? I just got here.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As far as pokemon goes the most "random" we have is jigglypuff, but even then they had a rather iconic role in the anime, and it was also 1999, sakurai's decision making has changed drastically.

Other than that we have the mascot, the mascot's baby form, a pokemon that starred in a movie, another that starred in a movie, 3 starters smushed into one slot and another starter.

Pichu was also the mascot for the Baby Pokemon and starred in a movie too.

Jigglypuff just had popularity on its side beyond the iconic bits. And fit Kirby's model structure. Mewtwo was meant to be in over Jigglypuff, but it wasn't that easy. So we can be thankful we have 9 Pokemon. Though we might still if Pra_Mai was a Pokemon character in the files.

 

[Idon]

So, you all are aware of this, right? I just got here.

I was't, buuuuut, I don't particularly care if the Smash Ultimate gameplay is just random nonsense like the non-EVO events.

 

[Noipoi]

So, do you think the rest of the roster will disappoint you, surpass your expectations, or be in a middle ground?

At most i'll be indifferent to the likes of Skull Kid or Isaac, but if characters like Geno, Isabelle and Incineroar got in i'd be happy.
Though with the roster we have now it's gonna be hard to disappoint me.

 

[Untouch]

So, you all are aware of this, right? I just got here.

It's already over. It was beyond nothing.

 

[SmashChu]

Reposting this from the character thread. Just wanted to get some thoughts.

Just wanted to share a wild theory that may tell us who the other characters are.......by looking at the music.

So, as everyone knows the website updates every Wednesday and adds a new track. So far, its always been a different series, with the only overlap being the ones without a series (Noisy Notebook and the Galaga song). However, songs related to the character's series are added soon after the character was announced. Splatoon and Metroid were the first to get songs added and Castlevania and Gangplank Galleon were added right after that. Now, you may think that its just a coincidence since there could always be a repeat or a character doesn't have to added added with music soon after. On the second point, it would be strange as, at least with the last two characters, their music was shown off soon after they were announced; Castlevania was the same day. Even if this is true, couldn't you have a repeat? So say a song from a series is announced and then another added with a character. While that's still possible, I don't think it is the case based on how it works out. Let me explain.

To make my case, let me present a few points

• So far, there have been no duplication of series. So, there aren't two Splatoon songs on the site for instance.
• There are 31 series in Super Smash Bros as of writing this
• There have been 13 songs on the site
• There are 15 Wednesdays until Dec 7th
• For all intensive purposes, this is as of August 22nd 2018.

So far, the following series have a song on the site: DK, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, F-Zero, Fire Emblem, MGS, Megaman, Street Fighter, Splatoon, Castlevania
Also, there are two other songs on the site that don't have a series: Noisy Notebook and Galaga Medley. I assume these go with Wii Fit and Pac-Man respectively.

The following series do not have a song: Mario, Yoshi, Star Fox, Pokemon, Earthbound, Ice Climbers, Game and Watch, Kid Icarus, Wario Ware, Pikmin, Sonic, Gyromite, Animal Crossing, Punch Out, Xenoblade, Duck Hunt, Final Fantasy, Bayonetta (as noted above, Wii Fit and Pac-Man don't have songs either)

So there are 18 series left without a song (or at least a song related to them). But there are only 15 weeks left right. Well if we exclude the classic series and Final Fantasy (as we know it only has the two songs from Smash 4), that leaves 13 series that will likely have a song. There are two things we can take from here:
First, its very likely there will be at least one new series. This isn't unusual as each game has added a series towards the end. Olimar (Pikmin) and Shulk (Xenoblade) were the last two characters shown off before the game's release. Smash generally announces characters in an anti-climatic order with the more popular characters upfront and the lesser known or less popular ones later. So, with the 13 series, we will likely have one classic song and a song from a new series which makes up the 15.. For references, Duck Hunt does have a new song in their little trailer. I expect the series could be Rhythm Heaven (as a character was planned for Smash 4), ARMS or a guest character of some kind.
Second, we can theorize is what series will get new characters. Consider the series and the characters a lot of people talk about. Shadow. Well, Sonic hasn't had a song yet. Isabelle. Same for Animal Crossing. There isn't a Pokemon song either. Same for Mario (which could relate to Geno). Of course, not all of these will have characters attached to them (such as Star Fox or Wario Ware). So with these in mind, the characters that seem possible (including echoes) would be Geno (Mario), Gen 7 Pokemon, Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog), Isabelle (Animal Crossing), Elma or Rex (Xenoblade) and Jeanne (Bayonetta). Likewise, I don't think Skull Kid (Zelda) Bandanna Dee (Kirby) or Ken (Street Fighter) will happen as music would have been saved for them (and both Skull Kid and Ken have songs that could be used for them).

Now, this could be totally wrong, but what I find interesting is these fit perfectly. I didn't have to finagle anything to come to the 13 series number and it seems to play out perfectly where each series that could reasonably have a song will get one on the site. There has also been a big emphasis on the series as you can organize the character page by series and they spoke about series during the E3 showcase. A lot of Smash theories are nothing than needless speculation and tend to be wrong, but hopefully you liked it. Thoughts??

 

[ZephyrZ]

So, do you think the rest of the roster will disappoint you, surpass your expectations, or be in a middle ground?

Considering all that's already been announced I don't think it's even possible for the remaining roster to disappoint me. We could get Gothitelle, Bubsy the Bobcat and Boom Sonic as our final newcomers and I'd still be happy with the final roster.

 

[Luigi The President]

Oh my goodness are we still discussing Lycanroc? I went to bed and you hooligans are still going on.

Wait no, even WORSE, are we STILL discussing Gothitelle?

You know.
From the leak that NAMEDROPPED SIMON AS NOT BEING IN THE GAME.
Which disproves it more than almost every leak I see get disproved around here.

(btw lycanroc fans i think hes sick dont stop believing but also gothitelle has got to stop gang)

 

[Will]

So, do you think the rest of the roster will disappoint you, surpass your expectations, or be in a middle ground?

Waluigi's still down so unless it's one of these:

Spoiler: Big Image

Then I won't really care as long as I have Mac back.

So, you all are aware of this, right? I just got here.

What's so special about the June Demo showcase #15?