Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ZephyrZ]

Everyone's gonna tell you he's a total badass, but...
He's kind of a nerd. Incredibly strong and still badass, but he's very polite and a bit of a dweeb.
Says "Yo, Smithy!" at one point.

And my interest in the character suddenly multiplied. I mean it's still not a lot, but it has increased.

Nintendo themselves forbid Retro from putting him in Tropical Freeze's Switch port

Wait, what? Retro wanted to include him but Nintendo said no? I'm going to want a source on that.

 

[Mutsukki]

Wait if we get Geno we might get Axem Rangers assist trophies

Aight Geno you got me

It'll probably be Mallow though....

 

[Luigi The President]

And my interest in the character suddenly multiplied. I mean it's still not a lot, but it has increased.

Wait, what? Retro wanted to include him but Nintendo said no? I'm going to want a source on that.

Yea, he's kind of a sweetheart, it's cute. He's a noble guy.

 

[Shroob]

And my interest in the character suddenly multiplied. I mean it's still not a lot, but it has increased.

Wait, what? Retro wanted to include him but Nintendo said no? I'm going to want a source on that.

The K.Rool board apparently got that from a reputable source. Bkupa posted it.

 

[Zippo]

Can we all just appreciate this picture for a moment?

Smash Bros. Is Christmas to me. Always has been. Always will be.

 

[DevaAshera]

If its true that the only newcomers coming now all originated from series we already have then I guess a lot of these wild card 3rd party or totally new series reps being added is out the window

So I guess we could see maybe one of these realistically
A new pokemon
Black Knight Echo
Medusa Echo
Ken Echo
Shadow Echo
Dixie Kong Echo
Isabelle Echo
Skull Kid
Bandanna Dee
Hades as a boss in spirits mode

Outside of these I really cant think of anyone else left that would make sense that isnt from a new IP. So I BET you some of the newcomers will be from this list.

Please give me Medusa and the Hades boss fight and please give Medusa her uppercut so I can uppercut Hades!

Mario has Canon?

Two in fact.
Mario Canon is..very loose and doesn't reference itself often..
Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam shows Paper Mario has its own reality inside a book in Peach's Castle..which oddly explains why Luigi acts differently in Paper Mario then in Mario & Luigi..

It tries to, but it's not very good at it.

Pretty sure Rosalina only visits the Mushroom Kingdom once every 100 years. Why is she playing tennis and having fun at parties instead of piloting the Comet Observatory?

She just comes back more often now, it is a pilotable ship.

So Geno actually speaks?

Frequently..Super Mario RPG is a treasure, even in it's dialogue..like Toad sarcastically mentioning he forgot his Bazooka to stop a crook or telling a Goomba that Mario is gonna 'punch (his) lights out!'

Ted Woolsey, known for his Final Fantasy VI localization, did the localization of Super Mario RPG, so it's hilarious yet dated, like Koopa Castle being Bowser's Keep, Mario's House being Mario's Pad, and Yoshi's Island being Yo'ster's Isle.

If I recall everyone speaks in SMRPG

Everyone but Mario, who does the best pantomiming ever.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

you know what does have real canon tho

Kirby

I think that's mainly due to Kumazaki being a fanboy and going "let's tie all this stuff together" shortly after he came onboard at HAL from KSS Ultra onwards. Even Squeak Squad, of all things.

Before that, there was the brief stories by Sakurai and Shimomura's Dark Matter trilogy, but those weren't directly tied together until recently.

 

[T-Hell]

So do you think Geno would actually talk in Smash as well? It would be pretty cool if he had weird nerdy lines in his taunts and victory screens.

 

[Luigi The President]

So do you think Geno would actually talk in Smash as well? It would be pretty cool if he had weird nerdy lines in his taunts and victory screens.

Nah. He isn't voice acted, only has text boxes. It'd be too stark a contrast.

 

[Bionichute]

I think that's mainly due to Kumazaki being a fanboy and going "let's tie all this stuff together" shortly after he came onboard at HAL from KSS Ultra onwards. Even Squeak Squad, of all things.

Before that, there was the brief stories by Sakurai and Shimomura's Dark Matter trilogy, but those weren't directly tied together until recently.

i know and its awesome, the team loves the franchise so much, its a kind of love that you really don't see anywhere else in game development

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

you know what does have real canon tho

Kirby

Damn right... he has

(... you started it ShinyLegendary )

 

[Kotor]

Celica, Black Knight, and Edelgard as a DLC character. That would bring the FE total to 10, and oh boy would that be a popcorn worthy scene in forums.

If Fire Emblem manages to score 10 playable characters in Ultimate, I fear for the safety of our world. All that salt would dry up our planet and we'd all be doomed. Not to mention the salt-making companies would go out of business because too much salt was produced at a single moment.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Hold on

I really hope I misread that




Lemme show somethin' amazing real quick

Spoiler: isn't it glorious?!

Deja vu....

Just saying, but, if someone subjectively doesn’t enjoy playing as any of those characters in Ultimate’s engine, isn’t that the sort of thing they can just watch videos or livestreams of and be satisfied with without having to pay anything?

 

[Jibblypuff_]

I posted my thoughts on Elma in her discussion thread but I thought I'd post them here.

Elma has one of the interesting cases when it comes to newcomers for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I do not believe I've ever seen anything quite like Elma's case in Smash's history before. Elma has a lot going for her but at the same time, there are some things that might be holding her back. I think Elma is truly a 50/50 character at this point.

+Xenoblade Chronicles X had released in Japan roughly 6 months before the roster started being planned. Not only was Elma relevant at the time but also Sakurai likely knew that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was in development which would also mean that the Xenoblade franchise as a whole would still be relevant near the release of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

-Elma may have also been in the same boat as Corrin. Not only did both Fire Emblem: Fates and Xenoblade Chronicles X release at the same time in Japan, but also at similar times in America too. I bring this up because Sakurai said that they specifically were looking for games that had just released or were about to be released when they were deciding what character to develop next. Sakurai said he was already worried about Fire Emblem overrepresentation in Smash but decided that Corrin was fun enough for that not to matter. If Sakurai was inherently worried about this, why would he go for a Fire Emblem character anyway? Was Elma not fun enough? Could he not envision Elma's moveset? Did he just not like her? There's not really a way for any of us to know.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about this too much since Corrin's inclusion was VERY likely more on Nintendo than Sakurai. It makes sense that they would try to market a new entry in an established franchise releasing on a console with a 60M user install base opposed to a franchise's second entry on a console with only around a 13M user install base.



+Xenoblade Chronicles X's composer, Hiroyuki Sawano was allegedly working on a secret project around the time Yoko Shimomura was also working on a secret project that happened to be Smash.

-Even if Hiroyuki Sawano's project was Smash, it's possible that it was only for a couple of tracks that would play on a new or pre-existing Xenoblade Chronicles stage. His work being included in Smash would not be indicative of a character.

+Elma's English voice actor, Caitlin Glass responded to someone on twitter asking if she wanted to see Elma in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate with something along the lines of, "That would be rad." The fact that she didn't outright say she wasn't contacted is a big plus which means she hasn't exactly ruled it out.

-The fact that Caitlin Glass responded to anything related to Elma in Smash is already a bit concerning, though. However, it should be noted that Shulk's VA, Adem Howden stated that he had worked on "several very exciting games so far this year" around 3 months before Shulk was revealed as a playable character in Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U.

It's also possible that they reuse her lines from Xenoblade Chronicles X or even

Spoiler: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 DATAMINE spoilers

record or reuse lines from Elma's appearance in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 if they end up not just reusing stuff from Xenoblade Chronicles X.

It is also possible that they could just use an entirely different Voice Actress if they can't get Catilin Glass to reprise her role for some reason.

Spoiler: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 STORY/DATAMINE spoilers

+Xenoblade Chronicles X references and/or easter eggs basically don't exist in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 to my knowledge. Meanwhile, Xenoblade Chronicles 1 is directly connected to 2 via a pretty big "reference" to the original game. The fact that Elma is going to show up in the DLC is quite strange considering there's nothing solid that actually connects Xenoblade Chronicles 1 and 2 to Xenoblade Chronicles X. It's entirely possible that Elma showing up in the DLC is a well-timed reminder of who Elma is and what game she came from to newer fans of the franchise.

-It's possible that Monolith just wants to add Elma as a sort of homage to Xenoblade Chronicles X or even just a way to gauge reactions to a possible Nintendo Switch port of the game.

+Back in 2016, Sakurai stated that he had purchased a toy mech Gundam for the gun it had as he wanted to use it as a reference for his next project which we now know is Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Not only does the gun similar to the aesthetic of weapons present in Xenoblade Chronicles X but the actual mech heavily resembles the mech that Elma uses in her game. Perhaps Sakurai was intentionally misleading people about the gun? We know that in the past that he has used toys and models to help illustrate how he thinks a character should move in game. Maybe he wanted to draw attention away from the mech itself so people wouldn't look into it?

-The gun could also have been used as a reference for another item, assist trophy, trophy, stage element(For example, a Xenoblade Chronicles X stage where Elma's Skell appears.), or character. Prior to seeing the Inklings moveset, it was commonly assumed that it could have been used for the Inklings as there are several guns from Splatoon that happen to bear a resemblance to the gun the toy mech had. However, Nothing remotely resembling a rifle is used in the Inkling's movesets so it likely wasn't for them unless they happened chance one of the Inkling's moves. The next candidate, barring Elma, is a character from the Custom Robo series. Due to that franchise not being popular it's more likely that it's for Elma or someone else rather than a Custom Robo rep.

Though, a Custom Robo character would be cool.

-In his Famitsu column, Sakurai said that he had referred to the ballot when it came to character choices. Due to the timeing of Xenoblade Chronicles X's release, it isn't likely that Elma had any significant following as the game was only 6 months old in Japan and had only released worldwide near the conclusion of the Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U ballot.

+While anecdotal, Simon and/or Richter did not seem to have a large voter base during the ballot either. Sakurai didn't mention or imply that they were in because of the ballot so it's very likely that non-popular ballot characters are possible.

There is also the possibility that adding Simon and/or Richter was a requirement from Konami to get Snake back in Smash Bros., however, I don't think this is all that likely since they probably see Snake in Smash as an advertisement to MGS.


It's possible that we could see Elma being a newcomer but it's also equally as possible that we don't see her in at all. It's pretty much up in the air at this point.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oh for the love off....

You people have no knowledge of the past.

First off...

The "Big three" is a really dumb concept. It's implying that they've all been huge fan requests since pre Brawl, but that's only true if you stretch things a LOOOOOOOT and ignore even more.

You wanna know which characters were really popular pre Brawl? Only Ridley and Geno. K.Rool wasn't a popular pick because most DK fans logically went for Diddy who wasn't in at the time. It wasn't til after Brawl that K.Rool started to get a notable following and I think old K.Rool veterans (and vets in general) can back me up on that. BKupa666 @Fuzzy Pickles! N3ON

You wanna know who was popular before Smash 4? Only Ridley and K.Rool. Geno popularity plummeted at that time. Something several veteran Geno supporters like PsychoIncarnate can vouch for.

Even then, after Smash 4's ballot period, Ridley support took a turn for the worse and Geno was just one of many popular requests.. K.Rool was the king there.

This "big three" only became a thing now. And even then it straight up ignores characters who have had fanbases of equal size and have been waiting just as long like Dixie Kong and Isaac.

 

[DevaAshera]

So do you think Geno would actually talk in Smash as well? It would be pretty cool if he had weird nerdy lines in his taunts and victory screens.

Probably not, even then we'd need someone to Woolsey-fy his text since he spoke differently in Japan.

 

[Zinith]

You all knew I'd be around to chime in...

 

[CroonerMike]

Oh for the love off....

You people have no knowledge of the past.

First off...

The "Big three" is a really dumb concept. It's implying that they've all been huge fan requests since pre Brawl, but that's only true if you stretch things a LOOOOOOOT and ignore even more.

You wanna know which characters were really popular pre Brawl? Only Ridley and Geno. K.Rool wasn't a popular pick because most DK fans logically went for Diddy who wasn't in at the time. It wasn't til after Brawl that K.Rool started to get a notable following and I think old K.Rool veterans (and vets in general) can back me up on that. BKupa666 @Fuzzy Pickles! N3ON

You wanna know who was popular before Smash 4? Only Ridley and K.Rool. Geno popularity plummeted at that time. Something several veteran Geno supporters like PsychoIncarnate can vouch for.

Even then, after Smash 4's ballot period, Ridley support took a turn for the worse and Geno was just one of many popular requests.. K.Rool was the king there.

This "big three" only became a thing now. And even then it straight up ignores characters who have had fanbases of equal size and have been waiting just as long like Dixie Kong and Isaac.

Look at Swamp, Giving this thread the People's Elbow. This is what I like to read.

 

[Slavic]

After Ultimate I really hope Nintendo delivers some crossover party games, Mario Kart gave like a taste of that with R.O.B., Link, Inkling, Isabelle, etc. but a full on crossover racing game? Or a sports or Mario Party clone? It's about all I can ask from future "Smash" titles.

At least put Falcon in Mario Kart, that's just rude to not invite him

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Y'know, I always took this big 3 thing as personal wants rather than projecting it on to the community as a whole.

It's probably better that way

 

[Chandeelure]

Big 3? That doesn't exist.
There is only one supreme character and that's Bandana Dee.

 

[Bionichute]

my personal big three are rayman, waddle dee, and magolor

Yep

 

[DarkFalcon]

Oh for the love off....

You people have no knowledge of the past.

First off...

The "Big three" is a really dumb concept. It's implying that they've all been huge fan requests since pre Brawl, but that's only true if you stretch things a LOOOOOOOT and ignore even more.

You wanna know which characters were really popular pre Brawl? Only Ridley and Geno. K.Rool wasn't a popular pick because most DK fans logically went for Diddy who wasn't in at the time. It wasn't til after Brawl that K.Rool started to get a notable following and I think old K.Rool veterans (and vets in general) can back me up on that. BKupa666 @Fuzzy Pickles! N3ON

You wanna know who was popular before Smash 4? Only Ridley and K.Rool. Geno popularity plummeted at that time. Something several veteran Geno supporters like PsychoIncarnate can vouch for.

Even then, after Smash 4's ballot period, Ridley support took a turn for the worse and Geno was just one of many popular requests.. K.Rool was the king there.

This "big three" only became a thing now. And even then it straight up ignores characters who have had fanbases of equal size and have been waiting just as long like Dixie Kong and Isaac.

So what you're saying is the only mythical figure from those 3 was Ridley.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So what you're saying is the only mythical figure from those 3 was Ridley.

I guess that depends on what you mean by mythical.

He had the most consistent support until Pre Ultimate where his fans mostly gave up hope.

 

[UberMadman]

Oh for the love off....

You people have no knowledge of the past.

First off...

The "Big three" is a really dumb concept. It's implying that they've all been huge fan requests since pre Brawl, but that's only true if you stretch things a LOOOOOOOT and ignore even more.

You wanna know which characters were really popular pre Brawl? Only Ridley and Geno. K.Rool wasn't a popular pick because most DK fans logically went for Diddy who wasn't in at the time. It wasn't til after Brawl that K.Rool started to get a notable following and I think old K.Rool veterans (and vets in general) can back me up on that. BKupa666 @Fuzzy Pickles! N3ON

You wanna know who was popular before Smash 4? Only Ridley and K.Rool. Geno popularity plummeted at that time. Something several veteran Geno supporters like PsychoIncarnate can vouch for.

Even then, after Smash 4's ballot period, Ridley support took a turn for the worse and Geno was just one of many popular requests.. K.Rool was the king there.

This "big three" only became a thing now. And even then it straight up ignores characters who have had fanbases of equal size and have been waiting just as long like Dixie Kong and Isaac.

It’s true that Geno’s popularity died off a lot in the run-up to Smash 4, but I don’t think it died down much during the ballet period. I actually already made a post on this:

I think his popularity might not have died down as much as one might expect. There’s one particular quote from the famous post-DLC Nintendo Dream interview that I feel is getting overlooked, which I will bold and italicize:

Geno:
—What led you to decide to make a Geno costume after all this time?
Sakurai: To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash. During Brawl, I thought it would be great if I could add him, but in the end it didn’t become a reality.
—Because of that, you added him as a Mii Costume this time?
Sakurai: That’s right. He’s very popular. When talking about older characters, Geno always gets a lot of requests. He didn’t appear as a fighter, but I was able to achieve something kind of close to that as a Mii Costume.

Keep in mind this interview came out shortly after the Smash 4 DLC was finished, (and, for context, after Smash Ultimate’s project plan was finished.) Assuming Source Gaming’s translation is accurate, which it usually is, then I find it interesting that Sakurai said that Geno is a character that “always” gets lots of requests, not a character who “was heavily requested in the past” or something along those lines. Given the fact that he had already devised Ultimate’s roster at the time, he had to have had the ballot on his mind when he said this, so logic would dictate that Geno got “lots of requests” in the Smash ballot too.

 

[Zinith]

After Ultimate I really hope Nintendo delivers some crossover party games, Mario Kart gave like a taste of that with R.O.B., Link, Inkling, Isabelle, etc. but a full on crossover racing game? Or a sports or Mario Party clone? It's about all I can ask from future "Smash" titles.

At least put Falcon in Mario Kart, that's just rude to not invite him

Wii Fit Trainer in Mario Tennis?

 

[KMDP]

Speaking of Big 3s being a stupid concept.

The "Big 3 of Manga" during the late 200s and early 2010s were One Piece, Naruto and Bleach.

Except...

One Piece wasn't popular in America, and Bleach wasn't popular in Japan (as it got near it's end it was the bottom of Shonon Jump's weekly popularity listings consistently).

The "Big 3 of Manga" was just a fan concept, just like the big 3 of Smash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It’s true that Geno’s popularity died off a lot in the run-up to Smash 4, but I don’t think it died down much during the ballet period. I actually already made a post on this:

Yeah the ballot gave him a spike. I never said it didn't.

 

[Zinith]

Speaking of Big 3s being a stupid concept.

The "Big 3 of Manga" during the late 200s and early 2010s were One Piece, Naruto and Bleach.

Except...

One Piece wasn't popular in America, and Bleach wasn't popular in Japan (as it got near it's end it was the bottom of Shonon Jump's weekly popularity listings consistently).

The "Big 3 of Manga" was just a fan concept, just like the big 3 of Smash.

The Big 3 of manga right now is One Piece, Golgo 13 and Dragon Ball (the 3 highest selling manga to date)

 

[DarkFalcon]

I guess that depends on what you mean by mythical.

He had the most consistent support until Pre Ultimate where his fans mostly gave up hope.

I guess I mean "most consistently vocal and supportive" fanbase among the series' history. I did recall people giving up on him after Sakurai's statement, and by the time Ultimate was announced I think so many people were burned out from the constant Ridley debates. It's pretty interesting honestly. Fight so hard for a character for so long, the moment you start to ease up he's in.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

We may not even need a big 3 if all the popular choices get in.

This may be the game we hoped Brawl would have been.

 

[ZephyrZ]

You all knew I'd be around to chime in...

Ah screw it, I love beating jokes into the ground. I may as well jump in.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

I thought the big three in Brawl were Mega Man, Ridley, and Geno after Sonic and Dedede were announced. Also, I thought the big three in Smash 4 were Mewtwo, Ridley, and King K Rool.

 

[DevaAshera]

Oh for the love off....

You people have no knowledge of the past.

First off...

The "Big three" is a really dumb concept. It's implying that they've all been huge fan requests since pre Brawl, but that's only true if you stretch things a LOOOOOOOT and ignore even more.

You wanna know which characters were really popular pre Brawl? Only Ridley and Geno. K.Rool wasn't a popular pick because most DK fans logically went for Diddy who wasn't in at the time. It wasn't til after Brawl that K.Rool started to get a notable following and I think old K.Rool veterans (and vets in general) can back me up on that. BKupa666 @Fuzzy Pickles! N3ON

You wanna know who was popular before Smash 4? Only Ridley and K.Rool. Geno popularity plummeted at that time. Something several veteran Geno supporters like PsychoIncarnate can vouch for.

Even then, after Smash 4's ballot period, Ridley support took a turn for the worse and Geno was just one of many popular requests.. K.Rool was the king there.

This "big three" only became a thing now. And even then it straight up ignores characters who have had fanbases of equal size and have been waiting just as long like Dixie Kong and Isaac.

I can back you up on that too, I was on various sites for Brawl and on both here and Capcom-Unity during the last game (I was a moderator there). The support I saw was..
Brawl
- Sonic
- Mega Man
- Geno
- Ridley
- Diddy
- Ness (people feared he was cut for Lucas)
- Isaac

Smash 4 (Base)
- Ridley
- K. Rool
- Bayonetta
- Mewtwo
- Chrom
- Isaac
- Shadow
- Lloyd
- Pac-Man

Smash 4 (DLC)
- Shovel Knight
- K. Rool
- Dark Samus
- Wolf
- Roy
- Geno
- Bayonetta

A lot of people who wanted Ridley seemed to accept the "too big" thing and hoped for Dark Samus or Sylux as a consolation prize.
A lot of people that requested characters seen as 'impossible' like Ridley, Cloud, or Bayonetta tended to be shouted down with reasons why what they wanted was impossible based on offhand comments by Sakurai or beliefs of their own being treated as unbreakable rules.

 

[UberMadman]

Yeah the ballot gave him a spike. I never said it didn't.

Ah; in that case, I’m sorry for misinterpreting.

 

[KMDP]

The Big 3 of manga right now is One Piece, Golgo 13 and Dragon Ball (the 3 highest selling manga to date)

Yes, that is an actual Big 3.

A lot of people that requested characters seen as 'impossible' like Ridley, Cloud, or Bayonetta tended to be shouted down with reasons why what they wanted was impossible based on offhand comments by Sakurai or beliefs of their own being treated as unbreakable rules.

...
Deva, do you ever get a sense of deja vu?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Thing is Swamp Sensei is right there never were big threes, just a lot of characters with varying degrees of popularity

 

[Luigi The President]

He's never been part of a Big 3, but Paper Mario has always been pretty well-requested...
...consistently...
...I'm so tired...

 

[Deleted member]

I would say there is still a lot of large potential newcomers waiting and more stuff.
It is too confusing and unpredictable to make a "Big Group of Three".

Oh for the love off....

You people have no knowledge of the past.

First off...

The "Big three" is a really dumb concept. It's implying that they've all been huge fan requests since pre Brawl, but that's only true if you stretch things a LOOOOOOOT and ignore even more.

You wanna know which characters were really popular pre Brawl? Only Ridley and Geno. K.Rool wasn't a popular pick because most DK fans logically went for Diddy who wasn't in at the time. It wasn't til after Brawl that K.Rool started to get a notable following and I think old K.Rool veterans (and vets in general) can back me up on that. BKupa666 @Fuzzy Pickles! N3ON

You wanna know who was popular before Smash 4? Only Ridley and K.Rool. Geno popularity plummeted at that time. Something several veteran Geno supporters like PsychoIncarnate can vouch for.

Even then, after Smash 4's ballot period, Ridley support took a turn for the worse and Geno was just one of many popular requests.. K.Rool was the king there.

This "big three" only became a thing now. And even then it straight up ignores characters who have had fanbases of equal size and have been waiting just as long like Dixie Kong and Isaac.

The Big Three?

Spoiler: The Big Three

He may be dumb, but at least he is trying.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I would say there is still a lot of large potential newcomers waiting and more stuff.
It is too confusing and unpredictable to make a "Big Group of Three".

The Big Three?

Spoiler: The Big Three

He may be dumb, but at least he is trying.
View attachment 159406

BRB, making a Big 3 support thread.