Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

I can back you up on that too, I was on various sites for Brawl and on both here and Capcom-Unity during the last game (I was a moderator there). The support I saw was..
Brawl
- Sonic
- Mega Man
- Geno
- Ridley
- Diddy
- Ness (people feared he was cut for Lucas)
- Isaac

Smash 4 (Base)
- Ridley
- K. Rool
- Bayonetta
- Mewtwo
- Chrom
- Isaac
- Shadow
- Lloyd
- Pac-Man

Smash 4 (DLC)
- Shovel Knight
- K. Rool
- Dark Samus
- Wolf
- Roy
- Geno
- Bayonetta

A lot of people who wanted Ridley seemed to accept the "too big" thing and hoped for Dark Samus or Sylux as a consolation prize.
A lot of people that requested characters seen as 'impossible' like Ridley, Cloud, or Bayonetta tended to be shouted down with reasons why what they wanted was impossible based on offhand comments by Sakurai or beliefs of their own being treated as unbreakable rules.

Main thing I'd add would be Little Mac and Palutena for Base Smash 4. At least on this site, anyway.

 

[Zinith]

I'm not one to comment on the "likelihood" of a character...

But yeah, Shadow is likely

 

[Will]

I keep seeing people say Shadow is a given. Why are people so adamant that he is, when compared to good ol Skull Kid?

Numerous reasons.

1.
2.
3. MIA Assist Trophy
4. Easy Echo to make in development, since his model is already in the game.
5. Easy Echo to make in development, since his proportions are similar to Sonic's.
6. His inclusion doesn't surround a conspiracy theory about ****ing chairs.

 

[WingedSupernova]

I think the thing now is that most of the big names left are not as big as K.Rool/Ridley, and are a bit more divisive because of it. All of this character discussion is making me think of this as one big game of "****, Kill, or Marry."

So, here's the Smash version: "Cut, Assist, or Playable"

We'll look at three characters, and decide which you want playable, which to get just an assist, and which to cut completely...Let's start with the big three names we've seen around so far: Geno, Isaac, and Bandana Dee. Which would you cut, which gets an assist, and which is in?

Cut Bandana, Assist Isaac, Playable Geno.

 

[Yosher]

I keep seeing people say Shadow is a given. Why are people so adamant that he is, when compared to good ol Skull Kid?

Yeah, really, now that people know of the whole Echo thing and how easy they are to implement compared to full-on original fighters, requests for characters who would make a lot of sense as Echoes have gone through the roof basically. This doesn't apply to Skull Kid, who would definitely be an original character if he were to make it into Smash Bros. It's really not a very good comparison.

 

[Deleted member]

From what I remember, Palitena wasn't popular, just "yeah, she's totally getting in". Her reveal was somehow even less surprising than the Inklings reveal

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I will admit; I too don't really understand the hype for Geno. I find him to potentially have a fun moveset, Geno is also very mysterious and stood out in the Mario RPGs . So I will be happy if Geno gets in.

What I really want is for Square-Enix to make a Mario Rpg similar to SMRPG 64. The only Mario Rpg that I played after that was Mario and Luigi partners in time (that story was hella good). Now all the Mario RPGs seems like item spam to win, not to mention it's literally just Mario and Luigi now.

I want Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Kamek, other made up characters in my party. Don't make items braindead too.

 

[Onua]

The reason Shadow, isabelle, ken Black Knight, and Medusa have exploded lately is because they otherwise wouldnt be likely but now all of a sudden they look VERY likely

its a case of outside of echoes they wouldnt have a chance and had small fanbases but now that echoes are full on in ppl are clamoring over them.

Id add Dixie there but a lot of people get upset at the idea of her being an echo for some weird reason.

 

[drag0nscythe]

In the brawl days, it was over the map. People were expecting double melees roster at about 50 characters.

Geno. Ridley and k rool were the big ones. So was wolf or Krystal. People also wanted starfy, waluigi and others that ended up being assists.

For smash4, it was more routine and discussions i remember were on curs.

 

[DevaAshera]

"But aren't "likely" and "guaranteed" the same thing?"

Not really. Likely is just a likelihood. For example, in Mario Kart, Waluigi is more likely to appear then Queen Bee, but this isn't absolute, like when Queen Bee appeared in Mario Kart 7 but Waluigi didn't.

Bayonetta wasn't even talked about up here as a major contender. Cloud was largely popular and pushed due to casuals. Many Nintendo purists were yelling how he isn't Nintendo and thus impossible/ Silly and suggested moogle or Black Mage. Mewtwo was wanted by both crowds. Corrin was just promotional advertising not to mention FE is popular. I see Roy, Lucas as really only being the hardcore stuff and they were recognized by casuals due to being Veterans.

In fact I remember a lot of people being salty on Smashboards after the Final Direct revealing Corrin and Bayonetta both of who were relevant at the time.

I distinctly remember a lot of people on these very Boards discussing how Bayonetta was likely for base Roster or even DLC due to Nintendo funding Bayonetta 2..I even remember myself saying she was unlikely due to real guns and sexualized character.

 

[Will]

The reason Shadow, isabelle, ken Black Knight, and Medusa have exploded lately is because they otherwise wouldnt be likely but now all of a sudden they look VERY likely

its a case of outside of echoes they wouldnt have a chance and had small fanbases but now that echoes are full on in ppl are clamoring over them.

Id add Dixie there but a lot of people get upset at the idea of her being an echo for some weird reason.

Black Knight is only recently spurred up because of another conspiracy theory revolving a model disappearing.
IMO it means nothing because it's reverse alfonzo situation

 

[Idon]

"When Black Knight joins the battle, Alfonzo will not take over, as Black Knight was never the general in Castle Siege to begin with!"

 

[Onua]

To be fair of those 6 commonly mentioned echoes, all of them are very very likely
But which of the 6 make it is why everyone is just kinda going nuts
I highly doubt we WONT get one or two or maybe even three of them but who exactly is up in the air
All of them have a good chance so thats part of the excitement

 

[PeridotGX]

So I know they usually play themes for characters during Echo reveals, so what exactly would be played for specific characters?
Shadow has really three options:

A. All Hail Shadow
B. I Am All of Me
C. (bout to blow your mind). Live and Learn, the most likely

also a bit of a hot take but magna-fi all hail shadow > crush40's

Blaziken: Hoenn Elite 4
Impa: A Hyrule Warriors Song
Dixie: Stickerbrush Symphony
Shadow: Live and Learn
Isabelle: Town Hall theme
Susie Haltmann: Haltmann Works Executive Management (Robobot boss theme)
Ken: Ken's theme
Octoling: That one song that's played in all the OE trailers
Zygarde: Xerneas/Yveltal theme
Holly Blue Agate: What's the use of feeling, Blue?

 

[Luigi The President]

To be fair of those 6 commonly mentioned echoes, all of them are very very likely
But which of the 6 make it is why everyone is just kinda going nuts
I highly doubt we WONT get one or two or maybe even three of them but who exactly is up in the air
All of them have a good chance so thats part of the excitement

Seeing as Sakurai included an option to switch around the display of Echoes in numerous different ways, I'd be willing to bet all of them could make it.

 

[Zinith]

"When Black Knight joins the battle, Alfonzo will not take over, as Black Knight was never the general in Castle Siege to begin with!"

What if because of the meme, Alfonzo eventually becomes a fighter?

What then?

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Not really. Likely is just a likelihood. For example, in Mario Kart, Waluigi is more likely to appear then Queen Bee, but this isn't absolute, like when Queen Bee appeared in Mario Kart 7 but Waluigi didn't.

I distinctly remember a lot of people on these very Boards discussing how Bayonetta was likely for base Roster or even DLC due to Nintendo funding Bayonetta 2..I even remember myself saying she was unlikely due to real guns and sexualized character.

What? Umm Bayonetta got in after the Game came out lol?!?!? During the ballot phrase the talk was all about the typical characters such as Isaac, K. Rool, Wolf, Krystal, etc.

 

[DJ3DS]

hardcore smashers would rig the ballot to "boost characters" which is certainly how K.Rool got a ton of votes and gave Sakurai the false impression along with other characters that may get in. I WONDER HOW many people voted multiple times for him hmmmm?

I personally voted for King K Rool 5-10 times on different devices, each one listing various moveset ideas - many of which, almost certainly by coincidence, made it into the actual game.

I regret nothing.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I think the thing now is that most of the big names left are not as big as K.Rool/Ridley, and are a bit more divisive because of it. All of this character discussion is making me think of this as one big game of "****, Kill, or Marry."

So, here's the Smash version: "Cut, Assist, or Playable"

We'll look at three characters, and decide which you want playable, which to get just an assist, and which to cut completely...Let's start with the big three names we've seen around so far: Geno, Isaac, and Bandana Dee. Which would you cut, which gets an assist, and which is in?

Cut Dee
Assist Isaac
Playable Geno

 

[Will]

To be fair of those 6 commonly mentioned echoes, all of them are very very likely
But which of the 6 make it is why everyone is just kinda going nuts
I highly doubt we WONT get one or two or maybe even three of them but who exactly is up in the air
All of them have a good chance so thats part of the excitement

Geez you're pretty vocal about Black Knight aren't ya?
could've at least given falcon his black shadow then

 

[Onua]

Seeing as Sakurai included an option to switch around the display of Echoes in numerous different ways, I'd be willing to bet all of them could make it.

Thats something Ive heard some people say and its totally likely since of the big 6 theyd all be super easy to add so who knows whats going to happen honestly.
Some people think were going to get the 6 echoes and 3 totally new newcomers to fit with the 9 day gap of time between the last char of the day and the games release
id love that honestly. All 6 would be great but realistically i only see a few of them making it

 

[Luigi The President]

Geez you're pretty vocal about Black Knight aren't ya?
could've at least given falcon his black shadow then

Hey now...let him have this, my Steve friend.

Though yeah, where's Black Shadow?

 

[Onua]

Geez you're pretty vocal about Black Knight aren't ya?
could've at least given falcon his black shadow then

I mean id love to see the black knight sure, but Im FAR more wanting medusa in

Ive seen a lot of my friends and ppl on twitter want the burger king

 

[KMDP]

Not really. Likely is just a likelihood. For example, in Mario Kart, Waluigi is more likely to appear then Queen Bee, but this isn't absolute, like when Queen Bee appeared in Mario Kart 7 but Waluigi didn't.

I was being facetious.

Some fans consider "likely"/"unlikely" to be the same as "guaranteed"/"impossible", for whatever reason.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Seeing as Sakurai included an option to switch around the display of Echoes in numerous different ways, I'd be willing to bet all of them could make it.

This is definitely the part that gets me too. If we are only getting, lets say another 4-5 echoes, a roster with over 70 characters, this option kind of doesn't really make any sense.

I just feel like the talk about echoes from Sakurai poses it as a much bigger feature than we are thinking about. I seriously wouldn't be surprised if he just ups and drops 10 more echoes in a single direct.

 

[Will]

Hey now...let him have this, my Steve friend.

Though yeah, where's Black Shadow?

People can believe what they want to believe, but I'll make my stance again so it's on an even playing field.

Okay, someone has to go back to the footage and talk about where the Black Knight is supposedly missing (because the picture people use is such potato .jpg quality). Thing is, it's reverse Alfonzo situation that he's not there. You know how Toon Link gets replaced when Link is on there? That picture is implying Black Knight is on the stage with Richter right then and there. Would he really do something like that and slip up? Would he?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

From what I remember, Palitena wasn't popular, just "yeah, she's totally getting in". Her reveal was somehow even less surprising than the Inklings reveal

Nah, Palutena was super popular.
You gotta remember how much people liked Kid Icarus Uprising.

 

[Idon]

People can believe what they want to believe, but I'll make my stance again so it's on an even playing field.

Okay, someone has to go back to the footage and talk about where the Black Knight is supposedly missing (because the picture people use is such potato .jpg quality). Thing is, it's reverse Alfonzo situation that he's not there. You know how Toon Link gets replaced when Link is on there? That picture is implying Black Knight is on the stage with Richter right then and there. Would he really do something like that and slip up? Would he?

[insert generic "lol, it's sakurai, u never kno!!! xDDDD"]

 

[Onua]

This is definitely the part that gets me too. If we are only getting, lets say another 4-5 echoes, a roster with over 70 characters, this option kind of doesn't really make any sense.

I just feel like the talk about echoes from Sakurai poses it as a much bigger feature than we are thinking about. I seriously wouldn't be surprised if he just ups and drops 10 more echoes in a single direct.

Adding the big 6 would like make a lot of people so happy and whoever other echoes if the newcomers can even have one would be amazing

I just know staying realistic is the best choice

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I personally voted for King K Rool 5-10 times on different devices, each one listing various moveset ideas - many of which, almost certainly by coincidence, made it into the actual game.

I regret nothing.

RIGGED!! Now K. Rool will get cut in the inevitable Reboot which cuts half the roster and be made an Assist after Sakurai finds out such heresy.

 

[Majora's Visage]

Numerous reasons.

1.
2.
3. MIA Assist Trophy
4. Easy Echo to make in development, since his model is already in the game.
5. Easy Echo to make in development, since his proportions are similar to Sonic's.
6. His inclusion doesn't surround a conspiracy theory about ****ing chairs.

I agree the chairs are really stupid. But there are legit reasons why people think Skull Kid is in

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1400976-super-smash-brothers-ultimate

https://youtu.be/W-RCVtKbEXw

 

[Luigi The President]

People can believe what they want to believe, but I'll make my stance again so it's on an even playing field.

Okay, someone has to go back to the footage and talk about where the Black Knight is supposedly missing (because the picture people use is such potato .jpg quality). Thing is, it's reverse Alfonzo situation that he's not there. You know how Toon Link gets replaced when Link is on there? That picture is implying Black Knight is on the stage with Richter right then and there. Would he really do something like that and slip up? Would he?

Perhaps it's implying that they simply changed the model and Black Knight isn't in the background even when not played...?

I agree the chairs are really stupid. But there are legit reasons why people think Skull Kid is in

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1400976-super-smash-brothers-ultimate

https://youtu.be/W-RCVtKbEXw

Moving the goalposts. You asked why people would see Shadow more then Skull Kid.

 

[Will]

I agree the chairs are really stupid. But there are legit reasons why people think Skull Kid is in

https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1400976-super-smash-brothers-ultimate

https://youtu.be/W-RCVtKbEXw

You agree the chairs are stupid but post content that believes in the chairs anyway? I know what Skull Kid's standpoint is, and he's one of the suspicious MIA that has him right behind Shadow solely because of the moon, which is completely understandable.

Perhaps it's implying that they simply changed the model and Black Knight isn't in the background even when not played...?

Implying with the implication that he's playable in the game at all?

 

[Crooked Crow]

People seem to be surprised when I say I knew who Richter was before his announcement. I don't know why

Because you literally only talk about Yoshi.

Or Boshi.

 

[Bionichute]

Yeah the implication is that the sprite isn't there at all anymore. Because it wasn't a model, it was a 2d sprite. It needed to be replaced, and they could have easily used the black knight's model considering he has one in other games, but they didn't. Its an odd detail that I think could mean something.

 

[Will]

Because you literally only talk about Yoshi.

Or Boshi.

Well
uh

Yeah it's definitely because of this man, sorry.

Yeah the implication is that the sprite isn't there at all anymore. Because it wasn't a model, it was a 2d sprite. It needed to be replaced, and they could have easily used the black knight's model considering he has one in other games, but they didn't. Its an odd detail that I think could mean something.

That thing was a sprite? Must've been so damn good to fool me, I thought it was 3D.

 

[Luigi The President]

You agree the chairs are stupid but post content that believes in the chairs anyway? I know what Skull Kid's standpoint is, and he's one of the suspicious MIA that has him right behind Shadow solely because of the moon, which is completely understandable.


Implying with the implication that he's playable in the game at all?

My bad. Edited the post. What I meant is that he isn't an Alfonzo situation, and that Black Knight isn't in the background played or not.
Seeing as Ganondorf was confirmed due to a slip-up in a 3DS commercial, I wouldn't be shocked if Sakurai slipped up, considering how he got away with it for over a week until someone pointed it out.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Medusa, Black Knight, Geuige... Giygas, Shadow the Hedghog, Black Shadow the anime baddie, Akuma...

There's a lot of villain/rival potential in Echos.

 

[PeridotGX]

To be fair of those 6 commonly mentioned echoes, all of them are very very likely
But which of the 6 make it is why everyone is just kinda going nuts
I highly doubt we WONT get one or two or maybe even three of them but who exactly is up in the air
All of them have a good chance so thats part of the excitement

Isabelle, then Dixie, then Shadow and Ken.

 

[Zinith]

Because you literally only talk about Yoshi.

Or Boshi.

Spoiler

Except for the times I don't