Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

It's like the discussion of whether a certain football(soccer) player is world class, what defines an world class, or an all star? Everyone has their own definition and there are variables.

I think your Marios, Donkey Kongs, Links, Pikachus, etc would be well above all stars and would be in some sort of super star/mascot tier as branding them all stars would not be enough imo.

I'd say to be an all star you'd have to meet some of these

- Somewhat iconic
- Well known
- Popular
- Memorable (In the case of older characters, has stood the "test of time")
- Consistent face of a franchise and/or is prominent
- Marketable

As much as I support K. Rool and Dixie, I don't think they are all stars at this point in time. At one point, they probably were. Dixie was the heroine and the star of her self titled game as part of one of Nintendo's most treasured and beloved trilogies.

And that isn't meant to dismiss the characters and their chances at being in the roster.

You don't need to be an "all star" to make it in!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's a better deate than who's iconic, as it has a much narrower scope.

Assume we get a trailer for Smash 5 at E3, now who is the first/only newcomer shown? Bonus, if followed by a new 3rd party, who is it?

For the record on previous games,

• Melee debuted with the opening video so Peach was first, followed by Bowser, then the entire Starting Roster (Though Zelda's full playable precence was left ambiguous)
• Brawl debuted with a custom trailer and the first character shown was Meta Knight, followed by a redesigned Pit, Zero Suit Samus, Wario & Solid hecking Snake
• Smash 4 had a slower feed with the trailer looking like an Animal Crossing one... until it was revealed villager was a new character, followed by Mega Man.

Personally, I think the first new character shown will be Inkling, who they use to show off a revamped custom move system by showing them with different Splatoon weapons. As for 3rd partues... I don't know, do they got for an obvious one like MegaMan or a WHAAAA one like Snake? Only thing I can say is it'd most likely be a big industry one as an indie character in Smash would be saved for a Nindie showcase IMO. Will say, if any current non-nintendo series gets expanded, this will be where we see that. Ex. Tails, Knuckles, Chun-li, Zero

 

[Deleted member]

I would say that Snake is a third party all-star. Not only appeared in Brawl, but is still fairly iconic and has a lot of fans. I would also say that Isabelle is an all-star not added yet because Animal Crossing is not about Villager. She is probably second bananas to Villager. Toad and Inkling are probably the "largest" all-stars that did not get added yet.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's a better deate than who's iconic, as it has a much narrower scope.

Assume we get a trailer for Smash 5 at E3, now who is the first/only newcomer shown? Bonus, if followed by a new 3rd party, who is it?

For the record on previous games,

• Melee debuted with the opening video so Peach was first, followed by Bowser, then the entire Starting Roster (Though Zelda's full playable precence was left ambiguous)
• Brawl debuted with a custom trailer and the first character shown was Meta Knight, followed by a redesigned Pit, Zero Suit Samus, Wario & Solid hecking Snake
• Smash 4 had a slower feed with the trailer looking like an Animal Crossing one... until it was revealed villager was a new character, followed by Mega Man.

Personally, I think the first new character shown will be Inkling, who they use to show off a revamped custom move system by showing them with different Splatoon weapons. As for 3rd partues... I don't know, do they got for an obvious one like MegaMan or a WHAAAA one like Snake? Only thing I can say is it'd most likely be a big industry one as an indie character in Smash would be saved for a Nindie showcase IMO. Will say, if any current non-nintendo series gets expanded, this will be where we see that. Ex. Tails, Knuckles, Chun-li, Zero

Why do my big posts intended to get discussion going always end up as the last flippin' post on the page?

 

[Cosmic77]

Worked a 12 hour shift at a hospital yesterday as part of my clinicals for school. Seems like I missed a lot while I was gone.



Normally, I'd spring at the opportunity to debate which characters are considered iconic, but there's honestly not much of a point in arguing who should be considered all-stars. All of the context used to support or object a character's all-star status can be interpreted many different ways. It all boils down to our personal opinions and nothing else.

Hold on a second, did someone say Mewtwo isn't an all-star!?

 

[Megadoomer]

I feel like the idea that Smash is only for all-stars went out the window in Melee, where we got a silhouette that was an amalgamation of dozens of games, characters from a one-off NES game who were chosen for gameplay over how noteworthy they are, and two characters who were exclusive to Japan (one of which didn't have a game out anywhere).

Also, knock it off with the personal attacks. I'd rather not see people referring to others as "unhinged" or disregarding their points because of opinions that aren't really related to the current discussion.

 

[Deleted member]

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I rather see Toad as a glorified NPC whose main purpose is to play the role of a filler character, like in the early Mario Kart games where developers were looking for a featherweight pilot.

Also the fact Toad wasn't playable in most of other multiplayer Mario spin-offs like Mario Golf, Tennis and Party means something.

 

[Krysco]

Suppose I'll chime in since I did make that one post where I said I see Smash as a collection of Nintendo All Stars. I'm fine with 'non all star' characters but I'm not a fan of the mentality people have where in the same breath they'll discount a character like K. Rool who was the original antagonist of the DKC trilogy and DK64 all because he hasn't been in a recent game but will also support the idea of say a Champion from BotW getting in. I've never played the DKC trilogy and never beat DK64 so K. Rool isn't some big part of my gaming experience but I feel he means more to the DK franchise than any super recent character means to their franchise. I'm also not 100% against a champion getting into Smash, just to be clear. I just prefer characters with some sort of legacy over whatever's hot and trending because they could very well mean little or nothing in the grand scheme of things. Imagine if Brawl came out closer to when Sonic 06 came out and we somehow got both Sonic and Silver in Brawl. That's just the first example that comes to mind but that'd be catering to recency and we can look back now and see that Silver doesn't really matter much.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I feel like the idea that Smash is only for all-stars went out the window in Melee, where we got a silhouette that was an amalgamation of dozens of games, characters from a one-off NES game who were chosen for gameplay over how noteworthy they are, and two characters who were exclusive to Japan (one of which didn't have a game out anywhere).

Also, knock it off with the personal attacks. I'd rather not see people referring to others as "unhinged" or disregarding their points because of opinions that aren't really related to the current discussion.

It's All-Stars FOR THE MOST PART. Just because a few obscure characters like Ice Climbers make it in to make the game more interesting or add novelty, doesn't mean the whole All-Star thing is just "thrown out the window" and there's no criteria for characters anymore.

It's not just black & white/this or that.

 

[Lukingordex]

I feel like the idea that Smash is only for all-stars went out the window in Melee, where we got a silhouette that was an amalgamation of dozens of games, characters from a one-off NES game who were chosen for gameplay over how noteworthy they are, and two characters who were exclusive to Japan (one of which didn't have a game out anywhere).

Also, knock it off with the personal attacks. I'd rather not see people referring to others as "unhinged" or disregarding their points because of opinions that aren't really related to the current discussion.

Could even Ness himself be considered an all-star before he made it into smash 64? I'm sure most people only got to know his game after he got in smash.
This "all-star" definition that is being discussed so much in this thread is unnacurate and unreliable.

The only real evidence we got to who could be an "all star" is the fact there's a mode with the same name on the game that features every playable character. So, maybe we could consider everyone who managed to enter smash bros. an "all star"?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

What's the point in talking about it? We're just going to end up discussing potential characters on their individual merits. There isn't an all-star filter on this site. If you don't think a character is important enough, say so when it comes up. This has become tedious.

 

[Lukingordex]

I never got the whole train of thought that getting into Smash was some lofty achievement honestly. It feels great to have someone you want get in, yeah, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, Smash's roster isn't some sort of ultimate endgame VIP club. It never was, honestly.

This "all-star" discussion should've ended after this post was made tbh

 

[Opossum]

What's the point in talking about it? We're just going to end up discussing potential characters on their individual merits. There isn't an all-star filter on this site. If you don't think a character is important enough, say so when it comes up. This has become tedious.

That's the thing too...it's literally and entirely subjective. Hell, in my eyes not even Smash 64 had an entire roster of All-Stars. Ness and Captain Falcon weren't even on Fox's level, never mind Link or Mario's.

Seriously, if everyone had their say as far as who constitutes an All-Star, there'd be like eight characters on the roster, and five would be Mario characters.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

A thought occurs, the cast list for Smash 5 will most likely have A. already been decided and B. be based off the character poll.

And the Public said they wanted (after averaging across all 3 regions) an obscure Sega/Platinum character who's gimmick is using her clothes to attack. We're in uncharted water here.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Veteran changes for me

Luigi

• Poltergust 5000 as Down Special
• Dreamy Zone as Final Smash (same as Negative Zone)

Peach

• Personal Victory Theme (Peach Rescued Theme)

Dr. Mario

• Personal Victory Theme

Sheik

• Harp in taunt and victory pose
• Impa alt.

Yoshi

• White and Woolly skins

Diddy Kong

• Jet pack design from Donkey Kong Country Returns
• Victory pose with boombox

Wario

• Original outfit
• more Wario Land inspiration

Olimar

• Jet pack up special
• Alph as separate character (Rock & Winged Pikmin instead of Purple & White Pikmin.)

Villager

• Holds on to a single balloon by it's string for up special. Balloon Fighter becomes a newcomer.

Dark Pit

• Pandora's Wings last longer (Dark Pit has the ability to fly without aid in Uprising)
• Gemini Orbitars

Pac-Man

• Ms. Pac-Man alt.

DLC Characters

• Custom Moves
• American voice actor for Cloud
• Bayonetta 3 skins in free update

 

[Lukingordex]

And the Public said they wanted (after averaging across all 3 regions) an obscure Sega/Platinum character who's gimmick is using her clothes to attack. We're in uncharted water here.

What character is that?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What character is that?

Seriously though, Bayonetta was talked about in the run up to Smash 4... as the punchline to jokes. And Nintendo made it work, the absolute madmen.

 

[Staarih]

Here's a better deate than who's iconic, as it has a much narrower scope.
Assume we get a trailer for Smash 5 at E3, now who is the first/only newcomer shown? Bonus, if followed by a new 3rd party, who is it?

I really can't see it being anything other than Inkling, Splatoon has grown into such a huge thing and it's just too obvious it's happening anyway - it just makes sense to get it out of the way first lol. And, well, showing a newcomer for one of Nintendo's biggest games from Nintendo's biggest new IP in the biggest gaming event of the year... it works I guess.

Not sure about the 3rd party. I think Wii Fit Trainer was also shown after Villager and Mega Man, so another "left-fielder" would also create buzz around E3.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I don't think we need to use terms like "All Stars" at this point.

Because it really does seem like everyone's basing terms like that on their own personal definitions when concerning Smash. Speaking of, there isn't any given official definition of it from Sakurai or any of the Smash devs, either.

Not every character who someone might consider an "All Star" is gonna get in, Nintendo or otherwise, and some characters who they don't consider "All Stars" could very well get in anyway. People have made up tons of criteria that characters need to have a good chance at getting into Smash before and they've been defied many times.

I won't go on about this any longer because it's probably just going to be beating a dead horse.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Seriously though, Bayonetta was talked about in the run up to Smash 4... as the punchline to jokes. And Nintendo made it work, the absolute madmen.

People ******** about characters makes me sick.

 

[Lukingordex]

I really can't see it being anything other than Inkling, Splatoon has grown into such a huge thing and it's just too obvious it's happening anyway - it just makes sense to get it out of the way first lol. And, well, showing a newcomer for one of Nintendo's biggest games from Nintendo's biggest new IP in the biggest gaming event of the year... it works I guess.

Not sure about the 3rd party. I think Wii Fit Trainer was also shown after Villager and Mega Man, so another "left-fielder" would also create buzz around E3.

My personal bet would be Inklings as the first character shown, them either an ARMS character or Ice Climbers and them a new 3rd party addition

 

[TheLastJinjo]

My personal bet would be Inklings as the first character shown, them either an ARMS character or Ice Climbers and them a new 3rd party addition

Probably Inkling and Balloon Fighter, then eventually Spring Man. If even a third party, probably Bomberman.

 

[Freduardo]

HOLD IT! Slippy has his own game right? That Star Fox Guard thing for the Wii U that looks like FNAF in terms of gameplay. Slippy confirmed All Star then, you said it yourself.

Wasn’t that Grippy Toad, his cousin?

 

[Cosmic77]

Considering how Splatoon 2 became one of the only console games in Japan over the past decade to sell over 2 million copies...

Yeah, at this point we shouldn't even be asking ourselves if Inklings will be one of the first newcomers revealed. I think that's a given. Not sure who would be announced with them though.

Probably Inkling and Balloon Fighter, then eventually Spring Man. If even a third party, probably Bomberman.

You think Balloon Fighter is likely to be revealed alongside Inkling? If you don't mind me asking, why do you think Balloon Fighter would be revealed so soon? Wouldn't those kind of characters be reserved for secret unlockables or late reveals?

All of this is assuming Balloon Fighter makes it in Smash.

 

[GolisoPower]

Here's a better deate than who's iconic, as it has a much narrower scope.

Assume we get a trailer for Smash 5 at E3, now who is the first/only newcomer shown? Bonus, if followed by a new 3rd party, who is it?

Here's how I imagine it: Smash Bros. Switch trailer shows new visuals and gameplay of many of the veterans (Some if not all of the Original 12, a Melee character, a Brawl character and Little Mac.) before it cuts to a cinematic: Little Mac charges forward towards Yoshi with all intent to Smash him before he slips on a puddle of ink, with Inkling popping out of it. Shows gameplay of Inkling (Including her territory-control playstyle and an exclusive dodge attack with the Splat Dualies) before cutting back to cinematic. Inkling smiles at her work before she is hit in the back of the head with a giant red glove and narrowly avoids a second. She turns around just in time to see Spring Man retracting his arms and grinning at the Turf Warrior before throwing another punch, which transitions to Spring Man gameplay, which shows how he can use two different attacks simultaneously with his two stretchy arms. The gameplay then transitions back to the cinematic: Spring Man uses his shockwave ability to repel some ink shots from Inkling before they hear footsteps and see Mario and Link charging at the two new challengers. They begin to engage in battle before cutting to the Smash Bros. logo.

The logo stays there for a moment before it starts glowing red and begins crackling with red energy. The logo then explodes with the red energy, which cuts to another cinematic: Samus is witnessing this new phenomenon with Fox and Pikachu, who are looking with intent at this storm of red malicious energy. After a few seconds, a humanoid shape appears in the midst of the energy and a suit of body armor jumps out and lands in front of the three. The body armor is revealed to be Doom Slayer, who readies his BFG and prepares to fire before cutting back to the Smash Bros. logo, which is now untouched by the Argent Energy from before.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I rather see Toad as a glorified NPC whose main purpose is to play the role of a filler character, like in the early Mario Kart games where developers were looking for a featherweight pilot.

Also the fact Toad wasn't playable in most of other multiplayer Mario spin-offs like Mario Golf, Tennis and Party means something.

On the contray, Toad has actually been playable in several Mario spin-offs as of late. He was in Mario Golf: World Tour, and also appeared alongside Toadette in Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash. He was also playable in Mario Party: Star Rush, and even got his own mode (and even then he was playable in several Mario Party titles before then), and was a sidekick in Mario Sports Superstars.

I understand you don't think Toad has a big chance of being playable because of his role as an NPC, but let's not make up reasons as to why.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You think Balloon Fighter is likely to be revealed alongside Inkling? If you don't mind me asking, why do you think Balloon Fighter would be revealed so soon? Wouldn't those kind of characters be reserved for secret unlockables or late reveals?

All of this is assuming Balloon Fighter makes it in Smash.

I don't know. He's one of the more well known NES games. Not even sure why we're talking about this now that I think about it. We're acting like the reveal of the next Smash game is just going to be the same as the last one.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You think Balloon Fighter is likely to be revealed alongside Inkling? If you don't mind me asking, why do you think Balloon Fighter would be revealed so soon? Wouldn't those kind of characters be reserved for secret unlockables or late reveals?

All of this is assuming Balloon Fighter makes it in Smash.

In all fairness, Wii Fit Trainer was revealed on the same day as Villager and Mega Man.

 

[Deleted member]

How likely do people see a new third-party happening this game?

Third-parties are a big deal after all but it has me wondering if it's possible they'll just return the characters we already have since we already have six and adding more only adds up licensing costs. I still think it'll happen (money is on Bomberman if so) but it's worth discussing if a new third-party will even happen.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

How likely do people see a new third-party happening this game?

Third-parties are a big deal after all but it has me wondering if it's possible they'll just return the characters we already have since we already have six and adding more only adds up licensing costs. I still think it'll happen (money is on Bomberman if so) but it's worth discussing if a new third-party will even happen.

I can't see them not adding new third parties to be entirely honest, even if it means dropping some ones we currently have.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

How likely do people see a new third-party happening this game?

Third-parties are a big deal after all but it has me wondering if it's possible they'll just return the characters we already have since we already have six and adding more only adds up licensing costs. I still think it'll happen (money is on Bomberman if so) but it's worth discussing if a new third-party will even happen.

I expect some of the current ones to be gone, unless it's a port.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Bomberman. I don't consider it super likely, but that's all I can think of. I think he's still a perfect fit. Bomberman is the only character that I can think of that's really fitting.

If not him, either an indie character or possibly Terra Branford from Final Fantasy VI. Personally I'd like to see Sonic get a cast of characters.

 

[Deleted member]

One third party that people seem to not talk about as much is Crash Bandicoot. If he was added it would make the perfect "rivals" fit, Mario ( Nintendo ), Sonic ( SEGA ), and Crash Bandicoot ( Not from Sony but rather a large symbol of the early PlayStation days ). Crash Bandicoot may not be as popular as he once was but the way I see it, it would be really interesting and surprising to see him in the game. Crash Bandicoot does have low chances because he does not have many support compared to other third parties and he would face a lot of competition from other third party characters.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

One third party that people seem to not talk about as much is Crash Bandicoot. If he was added it would make the perfect "rivals" fit, Mario ( Nintendo ), Sonic ( SEGA ), and Crash Bandicoot ( Not from Sony but rather a large symbol of the early PlayStation days ). Crash Bandicoot may not be as popular as he once was but the way I see it, it would be really interesting and surprising to see him in the game. Crash Bandicoot does have low chances because he does not have many support compared to other third parties and he would face a lot of competition from other third party characters.

If the Crash Bandicoot N-Sane Trilogy coming to Switch theory is confirmed, then that significantly helps his chances.

 

[Deleted member]

If the Crash Bandicoot N-Sane Trilogy coming to Switch theory is confirmed, then that significantly helps his chances.

I don't see why. Wouldn't Crash Bandicoot returning to relevance already give him a shot? I doubt a Switch port is going to change things.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I still think Rayman has a pretty good shot at Smash 5.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I don't see why. Wouldn't Crash Bandicoot returning to relevance already give him a shot? I doubt a Switch port is going to change things.

What I was getting at was it would be his first appearance on a Nintendo console. Granted, he would have been possible without the port, but I don't see this theoretical port hurting him either.

 

[Deleted member]

What I was getting at was it would be his first appearance on a Nintendo console. Granted, he would have been possible without the port, but I don't see this theoretical port hurting him either.

Not quite. He's appeared on the GameCube before.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Not quite. He's appeared on the GameCube before.

I thought Crash Bandicoot: Wrath of Cortex only released on PlayStation 2, huh.

Well I guess disregard my comment then.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Also there were a ton of Crash Bandicoot games released for the GBA and Wii.

Crash Twinsanity, Crash of the Titans, Crash: The Huge Adventure, Crash N-Tranced, Crash Bandicoot Purple, etc...