Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Al-kīmiyā']

and how much fun it is to WATCH

I completely agree. It just so happens that in this case, Melee is the most fun Smash to watch, so top Melee players' advice would more than likely make for improvements over other Smash games (minus Hungrybox).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I completely agree. It just so happens that in this case, Melee is the most fun Smash to watch, so top Melee players' advice would more than likely make for improvements over other Smash games (minus Hungrybox).

Okay, first of all, why remove Hungrybox, yet every other pro player is fine? Sounds like someone doesn't want the Puff buffed

Second, again, Capcom's latest fighting games games had a lot of input from pro players. The latest three had a ton of controversy.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Okay, first of all, why remove Hungrybox, yet every other pro player is fine? Sounds like someone doesn't want the Puff buffed

Second, again, Capcom's latest fighting games games had a lot of input from pro players. The latest three had a ton of controversy.

Because I was talking about making the game fun to watch, and Jigglypuff isn't fun to watch.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Because I was talking about making the game fun to watch, and Jigglypuff isn't fun to watch.

And how would not getting advice from a Puff main help?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

And how would not getting advice from a Puff main help?

...Because Hungrybox's playstyle is not fun to watch, and his suggestions would presumably effect that kind of playstyle?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

...Because Hungrybox's playstyle is not fun to watch, and his suggestions would presumably effect that kind of playstyle?

Just because someone suggests something doesn't mean it'll immediately be put in the game.

They could try something, see that it's not fun and change it.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I like watching HungryBox and the Puff though.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I just fear a new director not respecting the exclusivity of Smash's roster.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I just fear a new director not respecting the exclusivity of Smash's roster.

What exclusivity?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What exclusivity?

I don't want just any character to make it into the game. I'm fine with a new director as long as Sakurai chooses who gets in.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Doesn't make any sense to me, but okay.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Thinking things over, what would you say the chances of each of the characters that were dropped are of coming back in an enhanced port/new game?

Low due to Toon Link basically being the same character but this boy proved me wrong before
Needs some buffs and has to compete with newer AND Gen 1 Pokemon, so unlikley
If the Swtich can handle 16 characters on screen at once then why not? They'd be fun esp. since chaingrabbing got nerfed.
Unless the two below return and can be played individually or as a team with , I don't see it
A lot of Pokemon to compete against but was a popular Gen 1 Pokemon. That's a VIP pass basically
Poor, filling a slot Ivysaur. You were so fun to play as, but I can't see you returning
Lucas got back as DLC so I don't see why not. Plus SFZ finally gave Star Wolf land vehicles to use (in a sense)
Konami has pulled back slightly on their "burn games section to the ground and divert it to PACHINKO" stance but still unlikley to me.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Doesn't make any sense to me, but okay.

That's because everything is about what you want. I want actually unbiased decisions in the roster.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

That's because everything is about what you want. I want actually unbiased decisions in the roster.

Sakurai isn't unbiased. In fact the very idea of being unbiased in choosing characters for smash is absurd. Are you advocating for some kind of algorithm based on sales and recency?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sakurai isn't unbiased. In fact the very idea of being unbiased in choosing characters for smash is absurd. Are you advocating for some kind of algorithm based on sales and recency?

I'm saying he doesn't just put in whatever characters he wants based on whether or not he likes them. Of course everyone's biased, it's just to what extent. And for the most part that IS how he's made decisions.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

And you think a new director would just put in whatever characters he or she likes...?

 

[Opossum]

I never got the whole train of thought that getting into Smash was some lofty achievement honestly. It feels great to have someone you want get in, yeah, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, Smash's roster isn't some sort of ultimate endgame VIP club. It never was, honestly.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

And you think a new director would just put in whatever characters he or she likes...?

I said I'm afraid that MAY happen. How the hell am I supposed to know?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I said I'm afraid that MAY happen. How the hell am I supposed to know?

Well, it's the only way K. Rool and Ridley can get in at this point, so it's not like it won't make fans happy anyway

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well, it's the only way K. Rool and Ridley can get in at this point, so it's not like it won't make fans happy anyway

That's what I'm afraid of. Sometimes listening to the fans is a REALLY bad idea. Not necessarily for those specific characters.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I never got the whole train of thought that getting into Smash was some lofty achievement honestly. It feels great to have someone you want get in, yeah, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, Smash's roster isn't some sort of ultimate endgame VIP club. It never was, honestly.

Let's be honest, & are in it. Along with the little LCD man on Nintendo's obscure pre-gameboy handheld.

It's awesome to have a character in Smash but it's not the pinnacle reserved for the elite.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's what I'm afraid of. Sometimes listening to the fans is a REALLY bad idea. Not necessarily for those specific characters.

It can work sometimes though.

That's how we got Sonic in Brawl, iirc.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It can work sometimes though.

That's how we got Sonic in Brawl, iirc.

That's funny, cuz Sonic games are an example of when listening to fans is a bad idea.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's funny, cuz Sonic games are an example of when listening to fans is a bad idea.

I don't see what you're talking about.

Sonic Mania was made by Sonic fans and is actually better than anything Sonic Team did in the past 15 to 20 years

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I don't see what you're talking about.

Sonic Mania was made by Sonic fans and is actually better than anything Sonic Team did in the past 15 to 20 years

Yeah, but Sonic went through a phase of either listening to their fans too much or not listening enough. Sonic Lost World and Forces are a good example of that.

And then Nintendo went through a dark age of listening to their fans too much and we got nostalgic based horse**** like New Super Mario Bros 2 and Yoshi's New Island.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah, but Sonic went through a phase of either listening to their fans too much or not listening enough. Sonic Lost World and Forces are a good example of that.

And then Nintendo went through a dark age of listening to their fans too much and we got nostalgic based horse**** like New Super Mario Bros 2 and Yoshi's New Island.

Listening to fans doesn't always lead to ****, dude.

Not to mention Nintendo did those two games not because they listened to fans (what kind of fans would want TWO NSMB games in like, three months?), but because they think the nostalgia can sell. Just look at Mario Party: The Top 100, for example. It was all about nostalgia yet had zero fan input.

And that game turned out to be ****.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Since when has the Smash roster ever been an "exclusive game for Nintendo's greatest all-stars only"? In fact, the presence of characters like destroys this inane theory.

And then Nintendo went through a dark age of listening to their fans too much and we got nostalgic based horse**** like New Super Mario Bros 2 and Yoshi's New Island.

That I believe was a case of Nintendo not listening to fans ENOUGH rather than too much. By the time we got New Super Mario Bros. Wii, no one wanted another New Super Mario Bros. game. Not to mention they completely disregarded them in rosters like Mario Kart 8 and Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash. And do I even need to bring up Mario Party: The Top 100?

 

[Deleted member]

I never got the whole train of thought that getting into Smash was some lofty achievement honestly. It feels great to have someone you want get in, yeah, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, Smash's roster isn't some sort of ultimate endgame VIP club. It never was, honestly.

So long as we don't get Yoda and Darth Vader it's all good.

Or worse yet, Mary Sue and Kylo Ren... *shudders*

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Since when has the Smash roster ever been an "exclusive game for Nintendo's greatest all-stars only"? In fact, the presence of characters like destroys this inane theory.

Literally every character you listed there is an All-Star.

• Pichu? He was the baby version of the series mascot in the newest installment of the series.
• R.O.B.? The most popular accessory (besides the light gun) for one of the most popular game consoles. He came packaged with consoles.
• Jigglypuff? Extremely popular and prominent in the anime at the time.
• Squirtle and Ivysaur? Squirtle is a popular Pokemon and they are both starters in the original game.
• Mr. Game & Watch? Very important to Nintendo's history.
• Sheik was from the newest Zelda game when she was added as part of Zelda's character The character who's name is in the title.
• Dr. Mario? WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT'S NOT AN ALL-STAR? That's one of Mario's most well known personas and one of the most well known puzzle games.
• Corrin? Yeah, that was the newest Fire Emblem game and a popular one at that.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Literally every character you listed there is an All-Star.

• Pichu? He was the baby version of the series mascot in the newest installment of the series.
• R.O.B.? The most popular accessory (besides the light gun) for one of the most popular game consoles. He came packaged with consoles.
• Jigglypuff? Extremely popular and prominent in the anime at the time.
• Squirtle and Ivysaur? Squirtle is a popular Pokemon and they are both starters in the original game.
• Mr. Game & Watch? Very important to Nintendo's history.
• Sheik was from the newest Zelda game when she was added as part of Zelda's character The character who's name is in the title.
• Dr. Mario? WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT'S NOT AN ALL-STAR? That's one of Mario's most well known personas and one of the most well known puzzle games.
• Corrin? Yeah, that was the newest Fire Emblem game and a popular one at that.

Now explain Ice Climbers and Pit.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

At this rate, do we have any real Nintendo All Stars left to add?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Now explain Ice Climbers and Pit.

Sakurai already did. Stop being ridiculous.

 

[Bowserlick]

At this rate, do we have any real Nintendo All Stars left to add?

Toad is an all-star.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sakurai already did. Stop being ridiculous.

It'd be nice to actually show evidence of that instead of just saying "Sakurai said it, you're ridiculous."

 

[Opossum]

Literally every character you listed there is an All-Star.

• Pichu? He was the baby version of the series mascot in the newest installment of the series.
• R.O.B.? The most popular accessory (besides the light gun) for one of the most popular game consoles. He came packaged with consoles.
• Jigglypuff? Extremely popular and prominent in the anime at the time.
• Squirtle and Ivysaur? Squirtle is a popular Pokemon and they are both starters in the original game.
• Mr. Game & Watch? Very important to Nintendo's history.
• Sheik was from the newest Zelda game when she was added as part of Zelda's character The character who's name is in the title.
• Dr. Mario? WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT'S NOT AN ALL-STAR? That's one of Mario's most well known personas and one of the most well known puzzle games.
• Corrin? Yeah, that was the newest Fire Emblem game and a popular one at that.

Some of this seems like you're retroactively deeming them All-Stars. Especially Game and Watch, who technically wasn't even a character before Melee.

At this rate, do we have any real Nintendo All Stars left to add?

Inklings and Isabelle are two of the standouts IMO.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The tallies are in. The winner was Paper Mario of the four RPG Mario characters. Geno was pretty damn close too, but couldn't take him on. Mallow and Fawful however were both abysmal.

Anyways, we are entering a controversial subject. That would be the idea of Donkey Kong Country newcomers due to being a hotly debated subject. Your choices are King K. Rool, Cranky Kong, Funky Kong, and Dixie Kong. That makes three Kongs and one Kremling.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Good luck.

Ideally, two of them. Favorably K.Rool and whoever else.

 

[PeridotGX]

Thinking things over, what would you say the chances of each of the characters that were dropped are of coming back in an enhanced port/new game?

- Probably not. Toon Link is him in all but looks. Make him an alt of


- He's in the boat Dr.Mario was in, except he probably wouldn't be planned to be an alt.


/- Definitely. They had them working on Wii U.

- Probably Not.

- He's in an odd spot. I say yes for port and no for new game

- Like Squirtle, but slightly more likely than it.

- 50/50.[/QUOTE]

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Literally every character you listed there is an All-Star.

• Pichu? He was the baby version of the series mascot in the newest installment of the series.
• R.O.B.? The most popular accessory (besides the light gun) for one of the most popular game consoles. He came packaged with consoles.
• Jigglypuff? Extremely popular and prominent in the anime at the time.
• Squirtle and Ivysaur? Squirtle is a popular Pokemon and they are both starters in the original game.
• Mr. Game & Watch? Very important to Nintendo's history.
• Sheik was from the newest Zelda game when she was added as part of Zelda's character The character who's name is in the title.
• Dr. Mario? WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT'S NOT AN ALL-STAR? That's one of Mario's most well known personas and one of the most well known puzzle games.
• Corrin? Yeah, that was the newest Fire Emblem game and a popular one at that.

What exactly is your definition of "All Star" here, might I ask?

At this rate, do we have any real Nintendo All Stars left to add?

K. Rool, as far as I'm concerned. Dixie is up there, too, imo.

Isabelle and Inklings have been getting reaching the point in recent years.

Then there's also Ridley but unlike the others he's not really even a possibility until a new director with a different opinion takes the helm.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Literally every character you listed there is an All-Star.

• Pichu? He was the baby version of the series mascot in the newest installment of the series.
• R.O.B.? The most popular accessory (besides the light gun) for one of the most popular game consoles. He came packaged with consoles.
• Jigglypuff? Extremely popular and prominent in the anime at the time.
• Squirtle and Ivysaur? Squirtle is a popular Pokemon and they are both starters in the original game.
• Mr. Game & Watch? Very important to Nintendo's history.
• Sheik was from the newest Zelda game when she was added as part of Zelda's character The character who's name is in the title.
• Dr. Mario? WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT'S NOT AN ALL-STAR? That's one of Mario's most well known personas and one of the most well known puzzle games.
• Corrin? Yeah, that was the newest Fire Emblem game and a popular one at that.

Half of these arguments you make have to do with releases and events at the time of their Smash debut. You also seem to be retroactively deeming some of them them all-stars.

was added in Melee as a last-second clone alongside the other clones. Her status as a Generation II Pokemon may have influenced her inclusion, but that wasn't the end-all be-all.
, yes, while the Game & Watch consoles played a big role in Nintendo's early history, Mr. Game & Watch himself was literally introduced in Melee.
, as mentioned, was included because she was popular in the anime at the time Smash 64 was being made. Trust me, if this series was about "Nintendo's Greatest All-Stars", she wouldn't be coming back. She wasn't even that prominent compared to other characters actually, though her being a semi-clone of Kirby helped her case.
were literally only included because of Pokemon Trainer. If he wasn't considered for Brawl, then we would have just gotten Charizard, if at all. Smash 4 is proof of that.
Yeah no, the fact is an alternate form of Mario to begin with pretty much makes him the opposite of an All-Star. In fact, if anything, all he does is just make Mario himself more of an all-star. The same could be said for

What exactly is your definition of an "All-Star" here? Because it's quite obvious you and I have different opinions on the matter.

At this rate, do we have any real Nintendo All Stars left to add?

There are still a few. Toad/Captain Toad is probably the most notable though.

 

[N3ON]

Literally every character you listed there is an All-Star.

• Pichu? He was the baby version of the series mascot in the newest installment of the series.
• R.O.B.? The most popular accessory (besides the light gun) for one of the most popular game consoles. He came packaged with consoles.
• Jigglypuff? Extremely popular and prominent in the anime at the time.
• Squirtle and Ivysaur? Squirtle is a popular Pokemon and they are both starters in the original game.
• Mr. Game & Watch? Very important to Nintendo's history.
• Sheik was from the newest Zelda game when she was added as part of Zelda's character The character who's name is in the title.
• Dr. Mario? WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT'S NOT AN ALL-STAR? That's one of Mario's most well known personas and one of the most well known puzzle games.
• Corrin? Yeah, that was the newest Fire Emblem game and a popular one at that.

Lower standards than desperate drunks at last call.