Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

My mistake, I don't think that was a real screenshot. But, Kamek definitely was considered an original character in Super Mario Kart R.

My personal view is that no further Yoshi characters are necessary, but Baby Mario and Kamek are interesting additions in my book.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

My personal view is that no further Yoshi characters are necessary, but Baby Mario and Kamek are interesting additions in my book.

Same. A new Yoshi character isn't needed at all. However, Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island was one of the first games I ever played and one that I hold in high regard; I'd love to see Baby Mario/Kamek/both make the cut.

Also the fact Yoshi now has zero trophies of its own...

If I'm being completely honest part of the reason I'm pushing for these two is so that Yoshi can finally get some properties of its own.

 

[N3ON]

Mmm. Yoshi having an egg instead of a mushroom is a pretty flimsy reason for why there should be another Yoshi character.
Because I guarantee if he was just under the Mario umbrella with the others there would be few to no suggestions for Kamek and the like.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Mmm. Yoshi having an egg instead of a mushroom is a pretty flimsy reason for why there should be another Yoshi character.
Because I guarantee if he was just under the Mario umbrella with the others there would be few to no suggestions for Kamek and the like.

I only said part of the reason is because Yoshi has little to no representation.

I'm in the minority who thinks that Kamek and Baby Mario could get into the roster by their own merits.

 

[Luminario]

And I guess that's only part of my issue. I truly don't understand the fervour for a character who offers, imo, so little, and whose role in her own series of origin is, imo, so trivial. If she had even one of those things it'd be more understandable to me. Plus I can't shake my awareness that her popularity only truly manifested itself upon the dissolution of others, such as Rosalina and especially Bowser Jr, Toad, and Waluigi. To me she just seems like a "who do we have left?" character in every sense.

I just like magical women and flowers I dunno what to tell you about these people seeing her as a runner-up prize.
People like Daisy because she's Daisy. Surely you've had a character you liked simply because you like the way they look or act? People don't want her to be a semi-clone, they're just being realistic, and it's not like she can't offer unique abilities simply due to being built off of Peach, just that some moves can easily and realistically be shared. She has enough potential to at least gain completely unique specials anyway.

Well one key difference between Waluigi and Daisy is that Waluigi is more than a model tweak away from his parallel. Which means should he be implemented, seems quite unlikely he'd be based around Wario. In that vein, you'd have to rely on a unique moveset, one of which has been provided just a few posts earlier. I suspect Waluigi supporters would be better to ask, but a moveset that revolves around fighting dirty, trickery, and defying physics (possibly with references to some of the Mario spin-offs) seems a fitting moveset for Waluigi. I mean even when he shows up with his tennis racquet as an AT, the bulk of the attack is just him kicking you into the dirt, which is very Waluigi.

You missed the edit saying to disregard my lack of moveset inspiration after I took a peek at his wiki page. His Liar Ball works well as a feint projectile, and Bowserlick's moveset has some good stuff in it (though I'm not fond of the tantrum idea or the eggplant, sorry Bowserlick)

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

So the results are in.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

All and all, Waluigi blows the competition. Only a faction of those votes would be Daisy with the other girls as less than her.

I'll have the next one ready by tomorrow though. It will focus on Mario RPG's. So it's not just Geno, but Paper Mario and Fawful too. This may spark enough discussion for a while.

 

[Bowserlick]

Would a Waluigi/Daisy tennis racket special move that whacks away characters utilizing a bubble shield, as if they were a massive tennis ball, be inherently broken?

No damage, just knockback.

 

[Luminario]

Would a Waluigi/Daisy tennis racket special move that whacks away characters utilizing a bubble shield, as if they were a massive tennis ball, be inherently broken?

No damage, just knockback.

You'd have to be able to see it coming, and it should probably do pretty much nothing to non-shielding opponents, but it could work.

 

[N3ON]

I only said part of the reason is because Yoshi has little to no representation.

I'm in the minority who thinks that Kamek and Baby Mario could get into the roster by their own merits.

My post was directed more at just the general Yoshi series argument than any one person in particular, apologies if that didn't come across.

I just like magical women and flowers I dunno what to tell you about these people seeing her as a runner-up prize.
People like Daisy because she's Daisy. Surely you've had a character you liked simply because you like the way they look or act? People don't want her to be a semi-clone, they're just being realistic, and it's not like she can't offer unique abilities simply due to being built off of Peach, just that some moves can easily and realistically be shared. She has enough potential to at least gain completely unique specials anyway.

That's fair and all, everyone should like who they like.

But as a collective, not on an individual basis, the Daisy support seems... not disingenuous exactly, but opportunistic, not innate. The character herself hasn't changed much at all in years, but suddenly once the other options are removed in one way or another, now there's this groundswell of support? I don't doubt people want to see Daisy, but where was the support back when the roles of other characters weren't known?

And it's not only that. The character is just the perfect storm for why I don't get it: I don't think she'd be unique (which isn't to say I don't think she could be unique), I don't think she's important, and her popularity seems born out of the elimination of preferred candidates above her own merits. I understand desire isn't typically dictated by pragmatism, people want what they want despite realism, but there is a correlation in Smash between expectation and resulting demand, of which, to me, Daisy's seems incongruous compared to what she brings to the table. I can't think of any other character who has been in a parallel situation.

In any case, I doubt I stop banging this drum. It still perplexes me more than most things in this area.

But of course, everyone is entitled to want who they want.

You missed the edit saying to disregard my lack of moveset inspiration after I took a peek at his wiki page. His Liar Ball works well as a feint projectile, and Bowserlick's moveset has some good stuff in it (though I'm not fond of the tantrum idea or the eggplant, sorry Bowserlick)

Ah no, my bad.

 

[Cosmic77]

My post was directed more at just the general Yoshi series argument than any one person in particular, apologies if that didn't come across.


That's fair and all, everyone should like who they like.

But as a collective, not on an individual basis, the Daisy support seems... not disingenuous exactly, but opportunistic, not innate. The character herself hasn't changed much at all in years, but suddenly once the other options are removed in one way or another, now there's this groundswell of support? I don't doubt people want to see Daisy, but where was the support back when the roles of other characters weren't known?

Daisy's situation is reminescent of how K. Rool was treated before the announcement of DLC. Even though K. Rool had his fair share of popularity, both Mewtwo and Ridley were requested and brought up in conversation far more than him. It wasn't until Mewtwo got confirmed and Sakurai gave an official statement on Ridley that K. Rool's popularity really started to take off. Since the other two no longer had a reason to be supported, people moved on to K. Rool and started requesting him more frequently.

Obviously Daisy's popularity is not comparable to K. Rool, but the same thing essentially happened with her. She was fairly popular among Mario requests, but once Rosa and Jr. got announced, people moved on to other characters from the franchise who they believed would have the next best chance of getting added. Daisy wasn't the only Mario character to start getting more support around this time either; Captain Toad was another Mario character who was gaining some ground in popularity following Bowser Junior's reveal.

 

[Deleted member]

Mmm. Yoshi having an egg instead of a mushroom is a pretty flimsy reason for why there should be another Yoshi character.
Because I guarantee if he was just under the Mario umbrella with the others there would be few to no suggestions for Kamek and the like.

This. Yoshi had his own series since 64. I honestly can not see any good Yoshi character to arrive in Smash for Switch, just do not catch my interest. I think Yoshi is going to be the only one in his series for a long time like Captain Falcon. The only way a Yoshi character is close is if he is major in the games and well-known ( Kamek I guess, eh ). Poochy for a fighter actually sounds like a big no, and Baby Mario / Baby Luigi just seems weird to include ( Yes, I know Villager was not in Brawl because of fighting a child-looking figure, but two babies is taking it on to a whole new level ). Kamek probably has the highest chances out of the entire Yoshi game series cast. I think that we can wait on adding Yoshi characters and focus on more series like Fire Emblem and the Legend of Zelda.

 

[Staarih]

The Yoshi series has had good momentum these days I think, with a new game on the way for the Switch which will probably sell well seeing as Woolly World reached over 1m on the Wii U of all things. However, Yoshi’s still really close to Mario in terms of ”universes” and I’m not sure if the egg emblem for Yoshi in Smash was ever necessary (the ties with Mario are just sooo strong, maybe they just wanted more ”variety” in Smash N64). But seeing as the series is moving on somewhat strongly, who knows if we’ll get a popular Rosalina-level character introduced in a Yoshi game some day who’ll make it in Smash and actually make some use of the egg emblem!

I guess that’s doubtful though as Yoshi doesn’t have the same major audience as mainline Mario games, and even then any Yoshi character can essentially be a Mario character as well haha! Never say never tho. But as much as I like Yoshi and could suggest characters like Kamek or Poochy as newcomers, that would be scraping the bottom of the barrell and Yoshi is probably better off alone as of now.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Yoshi does have one "character" more we haven't mentioned. Yarn Yoshi!

Though that may end up as a costume, I think there's potential for a Y. Link like semiclone

 

[Roberto zampari]

Let's compare the Megaman's new design from Megaman 11 to the smash design:

NOW ANSWER MY QUESTION:
Do you think that the Megaman 11 new designer took inspiration of it from the Smash bros?

About the Megaman's smash design, i understood that it's because of the NES references, but Megaman is taller in the later games and comics, by the way, how old is Megaman?

Also, ironicaly, if you say that Megaman is a child, like in the same age of Ness, can you explain his final smash below:

X, EXE, Volnutt and Starforce are taller than the classic megaman.
Can anyone explain this?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

He's always creeped me out.

 

[DownDog]

Would a Waluigi/Daisy tennis racket special move that whacks away characters utilizing a bubble shield, as if they were a massive tennis ball, be inherently broken?

No damage, just knockback.

How much knockback are we talking here?

 

[Lukingordex]

Honestly i think this discussion about alternative versions of characters is going a bit too far. This is not mugen where it's okay to have 685 different links, Yarn Yoshi or whatever. Those things would fit better as alternative costumes at best.

As it has been said many times in this thread already, Toon Link makes sense and is the definitive representation of a child link in smash. There's no point in beating a dead horse and wanting to cut toon link in favor of a hero/masked/whatever link

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I dislike Toon Link. I like Masked Link. I don't care how many times Toon Link has been in Smash in the past.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, remember when I said that Smash 5 would be a reboot for the franchise under a new director, and WOULDN'T be coming to the Switch?

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._sakurai_could_step_back_from_directing_games

Just a friendly reminder you heard it here first.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Remember when that quote was already posted in this thread? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hey, remember when I said that Smash 5 would be a reboot for the franchise under a new director, and WOULDN'T be coming to the Switch?

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._sakurai_could_step_back_from_directing_games

Just a friendly reminder you heard it here first.

Well, it was bound to happen. He can't work on Smash forever, after all.

But it's nice to see he's not completely leaving everything. Having him as a consultor would be neat. He'd still have an input without overworking himself.

 

[Deleted member]

Remember when that quote was already posted in this thread? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

I don't lurk the thread, sorry.

Plus, that article is from 4 hours ago, and in the last two pages people have been debating Daisy and not talking about the quote.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

brand new sakurai quote from a work in progress translation from https://sourcegaming.info/2018/02/07/18755/
Sakurai: …Well for me, every time I always think, “This might be the last one.” If it’s a request from a client then I’ll consider it, but I do wonder, “Is it alright if I’m not the director?” It might be good to take on more of a consulting role.

Anyway, we can only hope.

 

[Deleted member]

Anyway, we can only hope.

The full interview is out btw:

https://sourcegaming.info/2018/02/08/new-years-discussion-with-sakurai-ueda-and-kamiya/

Anyway, I hope people realize that if this does turn out to be the case, the chances of a new Smash for Switch are incredibly small, and only if it's late in the lifespan of the console, and the console's life has been extended well beyond what's typical for Nintendo. Simply cause they'd need to find a suitable replacement for Sakurai, and that won't be easy.

Hell, this basically reaffirms that we're likely to see a port of 4 for the Switch before anything else, not only because of my reasons in previous posts, but also because something like that would be a great training ground for a new director. Only needing to add a bit more extra content to the game, rather than having to make a totally new game.

And again, this would further validate the assertion that because you have a new director, and thus a new vision, it's not unreasonable to expect the 5th game to be a reboot in a somewhat distinct direction.

 

[FutureSky]

i don't think this really means that smash 5 is not in devolopment, they have started dev for smash games without sakurai knowing it

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if the Smash series got a new director at this point. There's been plenty talk of it in the past, including from Sakurai himself. Making Smash 4 must've been difficult enough with all the work he put into the games, all while suffering from his arm aliments. I know playtesting in particular was a considerable problem for him. Maybe he has been saying "This will be the/my last Smash" since Melee, but now, we're 4/5 games into the series, many years after first game came out. Perhaps it's just finally time for him to move on.

That said, I also wouldn't be surprised if, at least for now, that simply amounted to him stepping down as the director and choosing to remain as an consultant. Honestly, I'd kind of prefer it to be that way. I'd actually really like to see a new director's take on Smash, as it might open up new possibilities for the series, but still keeping some influence from Sakurai. A new director working on the series with Sakurai acting as a consultant would be pretty ideal to me.

 

[FutureSky]

I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if the Smash series got a new director at this point. There's been plenty talk of it in the past, including from Sakurai himself. Making Smash 4 must've been difficult enough with all the work he put into the games, all while suffering from his arm aliments. I know playtesting in particular was a considerable problem for him. Maybe he has been saying "This will be the/my last Smash" since Melee, but now, we're 4/5 games into the series, many years after first game came out. Perhaps it's just finally time for him to move on.

That said, I also wouldn't be surprised if, at least for now, that simply amounted to him stepping down as the director and choosing to remain as an consultant. Honestly, I'd kind of prefer it to be that way. I'd actually really like to see a new director's take on Smash, as it might open up new possibilities for the series, but still keeping some influence from Sakurai. A new director working on the series with Sakurai acting as a consultant would be pretty ideal to me.

I Think this is what will happen, i think it's time to move on Sakurai and let someone yonger make the game.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Let Mang0 and Hax direct it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Let Mang0 and Hax direct it.

If recent Capcom fighting games have taught me anything, it's that having pro players work on a fighting game isn't the best of ideas...

 

[Deleted member]

Let Mang0 and Hax direct it.

Sure, have Nintendo leave all the big decisions to a pair of literal nobodies in the game design industry just because they're good at a decades old video game Nintendo made.

Do you even listen to half the things you say?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Chill out. I don't think they should actually direct the game. I do think competitive players should be consulted though.

I don't think Sakurai is some genius that is so hard to replace that it would delay Smash for years.

 

[Deleted member]

If recent Capcom fighting games have taught me anything, it's that having pro players work on a fighting game isn't the best of ideas...

This.

Remember what happened LAST time pro-smashers and hackers tried to design a fighting game?

 

[Gagnetar]

the statement he made with the full context is just a general statement about his work in video games, though it's not really a jump to say it's about smash bros. It's not really confirmation of him working on it or not as mentioned by Kamiya, they can't say anything about their projects it does suggest however that he may have actually decided on consulting instead of straight directing it. The cool thing about the consulting angle is we'll likely have more diversity in the character picks since it will also be influenced by whoever the new director is, whilst keeping sakurai there's the potential for old attempts to get a second chance at being included. As sakurai said he remembers everything, down to the last detail, in regards to that one kirby game so It's totally possible he remembers alot potentially with the smash games.

 

[Megadoomer]

This.

Remember what happened LAST time pro-smashers and hackers tried to design a fighting game?

I have no idea what that is.

 

[Schnee117]

If recent Capcom fighting games have taught me anything, it's that having pro players work on a fighting game isn't the best of ideas...

Can't wait for "No one remembers X-Men Pokemon" and "FUNCTIONS"

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Welp, here I am and I have the new Smash poll locked and loaded. As I said, Mario RPG characters will be the main focus. That means series like Mario & Luigi, Paper Mario, and the Square co-owned Super Mario RPG will be the subject. Your picks are between Paper Mario, Fawful, Geno, and Mallow. It will run for 4 and a half hours as per usual.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Begin and feel free to discuss.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

i don't think this really means that smash 5 is not in devolopment, they have started dev for smash games without sakurai knowing it

Not quite. They've announced Smash games without Sakurai knowing beforehand, but development has always started with him at the helm.

 

[Deleted member]

If recent Capcom fighting games have taught me anything, it's that having pro players work on a fighting game isn't the best of ideas...

Agreed. Just let really good competitive players be fans instead of developers. They are good but they can not direct as well or create a game as well either. I say that Sakurai should direct Smash for Switch, but that man honestly needs a break. Works really hard on games like Smash 4 and gets criticized for it anyway. I guess Opossum was right about the Smash community being worse than the Minecraft community.

 

[Deleted member]

I have no idea what that is.

It's best you don't know.

 

[Ura]

Hey, remember when I said that Smash 5 would be a reboot for the franchise under a new director, and WOULDN'T be coming to the Switch?

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._sakurai_could_step_back_from_directing_games

Just a friendly reminder you heard it here first.

If anything that would further support the idea of Nintendo making a Smash 4 port with new characters and all without Sakurai as the director.

Which is fine really. Smash will do just fine with or without Sakurai.