Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheLastJinjo]

Apparently, people just don't want to take the time to unlock stuff anymore.

That's what makes me sick.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think the best stage would be New Donk City which has different level gimmicks depending on the time of day (either as different versions of the stage or an Animal Crossing real-time deal)

• Daytime: Hazards are taxis diving through the sage and switches that make platforms appear
• Nighttime: Hazards are Sherms shooting from the background or those horrible bug things flying about
• Festival Time: Hazards are Donkey Kong Sprites come to life. Mayor Pauline performs in background.

If possible, I'd really like the Odyssey stage to focus on the "around the world" concept and travel across kingdoms in a vein similar to Skyloft and Delfino Plaza. Characters could transition between the top of Tosterna's Inverted Pyramid, the streets of New Donk City, and the Deep Woods of the Steam Gardens as a floating platform carries them from one area to the next.

If that's not the route they go with, then I'd like to see a New Donk City stage with the same format (characters are hauled off to different parts of the city via a floating platform).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If possible, I'd really like the Odyssey stage to focus on the "around the world" concept and travel across kingdoms in a vein similar to Skyloft and Delfino Plaza. Characters could transition between the top of Tosterna's Inverted Pyramid, the streets of New Donk City, and the Deep Woods of the Steam Gardens as a floating platform carries them from one area to the next.

That would make more sense. I'm just sick of those stages in Smash.

 

[UserKev]

I really hope that Toon Link gets replaced by Hunter Link (or whatever you wanna call him) from BotW. We would still have two links but they wouldn't be such clones because you could do a lot of original interesting stuff with Hunter Link. Neutral-B could still be an arrow but the arrow could upgrade while you're holding the button like arrow>fire arrow>bomb arrow>ancient arrow. With his ub-b you could use the paraglider or even a combination between the paraglider and Revali's Gale. His grab could be Magnesis and his down-b could be Statis, kinda like Mewtwo's down-b. As side-b he could have a bomb thrown which you could explode whenever you want by pressing b. I'm just throwing with ideas here but my point is that I'd find it really cool if Toon Link is gonna be replaced by BotW Link.

Toon Link removed or replaced is a flat out terrible decision.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

That would make more sense. I'm just sick of those stages in Smash.

Yeah in all honesty I'd like for this concept to be strayed further away from. Not counting Flat Zone X, Super Smash Bros. for Wii U has SEVEN STAGES like this; Delfino Plaza, Mario Circuit, Halberd (maybe?), Skyloft, Orbital Gate Assault (again, maybe?), Port Town Aero Drive, and Wuhu Island.

I get the aesthetics can be pleasing but the sheer number of them makes them all feel bland aside from MAYBE Halberd and Orbital Gate Assault.

That said I just want a Super Mario Odyssey stage that's set in New Donk City and is in one place at all times. Have Taxis roaming around, have Sherms appear, heck even make Mechawiggler a stage boss.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

The hell is Hunter Link?

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

The hell is Hunter Link?

Pretty sure they're referring to the Link in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild.

I think Champion Link fits better, but that's just me.

 

[Staarih]

If possible, I'd really like the Odyssey stage to focus on the "around the world" concept and travel across kingdoms in a vein similar to Skyloft and Delfino Plaza. Characters could transition between the top of Tosterna's Inverted Pyramid, the streets of New Donk City, and the Deep Woods of the Steam Gardens as a floating platform carries them from one area to the next.

Yeah, even though travelling/transitioning stages are "old news", I feel like one would work for Odyssey really well. I mean, a major aspect of the game is travelling with the Odyssey to various lands after all. New Donk City may be the most known/iconic place, sure, but I'd argue the likes of Tostarena, Fossil Falls and Steam Garden among many others are pretty important and well-known, not to forget gorgeous, as well, so it'd be nice to see all of them.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Pretty sure they're referring to the Link in The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild.

I think Champion Link fits better, but that's just me.

I don't think I like that term.

Also, Toon Link better not be replaced. He fulfills better the vision of having two different versions of the character rather than "Hunter" The Hero Link whose appearance isn't that much different from regular Link in Smash. Those ideas are better applied as an alternative moveset options for the same character. The idea of the neutral B is even the exact same move that they have now except with an aesthetic change.

 

[Cosmic77]

Yeah in all honesty I'd like for this concept to be strayed further away from. Not counting Flat Zone X, Super Smash Bros. for Wii U has SEVEN STAGES like this; Delfino Plaza, Mario Circuit, Halberd (maybe?), Skyloft, Orbital Gate Assault (again, maybe?), Port Town Aero Drive, and Wuhu Island.

I get the aesthetics can be pleasing but the sheer number of them makes them all feel bland aside from MAYBE Halberd and Orbital Gate Assault.

That said I just want a Super Mario Odyssey stage that's set in New Donk City and is in one place at all times. Have Taxis roaming around, have Sherms appear, heck even make Mechawiggler a stage boss.

Seven isn't really that much when you remember that Smash Wii U has fifty-five different stages. We have plenty of stationary stages to select from, and focusing only on New Donk City feels like a wasted opportunity when Odyssey itself is a game that promotes exploration and traveling to new areas.

Yeah, even though travelling/transitioning stages are "old news", I feel like one would work for Odyssey really well. I mean, a major aspect of the game is travelling with the Odyssey to various lands after all. New Donk City may be the most known/iconic place, sure, but I'd argue the likes of Tostarena, Fossil Falls and Steam Garden among many others are pretty important and well-known, not to forget gorgeous, as well, so it'd be nice to see all of them.

That's what I was thinking too. Aside from the aesthetics, I think there are plenty of areas in Odyssey that would work well if they were integrated into a Smash stage. New Donk City might be a big landmark for the game, but if given a choice, I'd like to see other kingdoms get a share of the glory instead of the stage focusing solely on the Metro Kingdom.

 

[Bowserlick]

There has been a Toon Link in Smash. There has not been a Champion/Hunter BotW Link.

I support replacing one cell-shaded Link with the other and exploring mechanics in the BotW. Link should have a mount, the ability to create a campfire, a shield-sledding dash attack, a stamina wheel that increases his run & allows him to climb walls & glide and he should have his magnesis ability.

There should be a 'pool' where cut characters are placed in. If there is DLC, then one or two can be picked from the second division of characters. I also would put priority over characters that were cut from other games and did not return yet, over those that already had their second coming like Roy.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

There has been a Toon Link in Smash. There has not been a Champion/Hunter BotW Link.

I support replacing one cell-shaded Link with the other and exploring mechanics in the BotW. Link should have a mount, the ability to create a campfire, a shield-sledding dash attack, a stamina wheel that increases his run & allows him to climb walls & glide and he should have his magnesis ability.

There should be a 'pool' where cut characters are placed in. If there is DLC, then one or two can be picked from the second division of characters. I also would put priority over characters that were cut from other games and did not return yet, over those that already had their second coming like Roy.

Toon Link isn't cel shaded in Smash. Toon Link is the young version of Link and a lot of people's favorite Link, me included. So you're not getting and "I" from me.

Breath of The Wild does not sufficiently represent the Toon games. I don't like your proposal to boot characters that fans have known and loved for years in favor of whatever the flavor of the month is.

 

[Bowserlick]

Toon Link isn't cel shaded in Smash. Toon Link is the young version of Link and a lot of people's favorite Link, me included. So you're not getting and "I" from me.

Breath of The Wild does sufficiently represent the Toon games

Toon Link and BotW are from the same time branch in Zelda and the latter is a descendant from the former.

BotW represents a big shift in Zelda games and seems to be the future direction of the franchise. I hope and think that this Link will be represented in Smash. Instead of tweaks to the Classic Link, I would rather the team create a character that showcases movement and freedom of their latest main game.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Toon Link and BotW are from the same time branch in Zelda and the latter is a descendant from the former.

No **** + irrelevant.

BotW represents a big shift in Zelda games and seems to be the future direction of the franchise. I hope and think that this Link will be represented in Smash. Instead of tweaks to the Classic Link, I would rather the team create a character that showcases movement and freedom of their latest main game.

That's fine as long as you don't do it in place of more deserving characters. I think people would rather have the version of Link we've known and love.

People expect Link to have a tunic and his signature weapons. That's what people know Link to be.

 

[Lukingordex]

Regarding stages, i'd really appreciate an option to disable stage hazards without turning then into "omegas"

 

[Bowserlick]

That's fine as long as you don't do it in place of more deserving characters. I think people would rather have the version of Link we've known and love.

People expect Link to have a tunic and his signature weapons. That's what people know Link to be.

Classic Link has the tunic and signature weapon.

The problem with clones/semi-clones is that while they pad the roster and give different playstyles for a game, players demand their return in every consecutive game. In that sense, Clones lose one of their best qualities: An extra character that takes less time out of development. If they have to return in every game, then they are actually draining resources for the Smash franchise, while adding less diversity and innovation in mechanics.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Classic Link has the tunic and signature weapon.

When did we start talking about "Classic Link"?

The problem with clones/semi-clones is that while they pad the roster and give different playstyles for a game, players demand their return in every consecutive game. In that sense, Clones lose one of their best qualities: An extra character that takes less time out of development. If they have to return in every game, then they are actually draining resources for the Smash franchise, while adding less diversity and innovation in mechanics.

You're right. Luigi has to go.

 

[Bowserlick]

When did we start talking about "Classic Link"?


You're right. Luigi has to go.

I mentioned Classic Link in the second post.

Cuts happened and I think clones should be the first considered for a cut. Some clones can diversify further and be kept. Toon Link is much different than his first appearance as Young Link. Good. However, if people do not want three Links, I am fine with axing Toon Link or Classic Link.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

You're right. Luigi has to go.

In all fairness can Luigi even be considered a semi-clone of Mario anymore? The two have similarly-named attacked, but play almost completely different.

That said that's the case with Mario and Dr. Mario too so...

Classic Link has the tunic and signature weapon.

The problem with clones/semi-clones is that while they pad the roster and give different playstyles for a game, players demand their return in every consecutive game. In that sense, Clones lose one of their best qualities: An extra character that takes less time out of development. If they have to return in every game, then they are actually draining resources for the Smash franchise, while adding less diversity and innovation in mechanics.

I've said this some time before, but that's not really how clones work, specifically ones like Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit. They can only be added if there is enough spare development time to program them into the game; if not, then they simply don't make it to the roster. This is why most of the clones in Melee were axed in the transition to Brawl; there simply wasn't enough time left over.

With Toon Link I think it's a little different. While he does share Link's moveset, he's pretty simple to make, represents an entire branch of The Legend of Zelda series, makes for a better "child Link" than Young Link did in Melee, and is insanely popular. There's no reason to remove him.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Cut Toon Link. Add Masked Link.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

In all fairness can Luigi even be considered a semi-clone of Mario anymore? The two have similarly-named attacked, but play almost completely different.

In all fairness, that doesn't matter. Lucas, Jigglypuff, and Wolf were just as different as Luigi. What about Falco and Ganondorf?

I've said this some time before, but that's not really how clones work, specifically ones like Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit. They can only be added if there is enough spare development time to program them into the game; if not, then they simply don't make it to the roster. This is why most of the clones in Melee were axed in the transition to Brawl; there simply wasn't enough time left over.

That's not confirmed. It's totally possible the clones from Melee were removed deliberately.

Cuts happened and I think clones should be the first considered for a cut.

Remember when Super Smash Bros used to be about the characters we love? What an insult to great characters like Luigi, Falco, Ganondorf, and Toon Link, that you would just suggest they are nothing because they're "clones".

If moves are all that matter then why don't we just replace Toon Link with a grilled cheese sandwhich. At least it wouldn't be a clone.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

That's not confirmed. It's totally possible the clones from Melee were removed deliberately.

Mewtwo is the only one out of the "Forbidden 7" to have any actual data in the game, but filenames for the others, including Dr. Mario, Roy, and possibly Pichu (though it could have just as easily been some other Pokemon) were also found. Whether or not it was decided to remove them deliberately or they were intended to be included and they simply didn't have enough time, it's safe to say they were at least considered.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

So I'm getting back into Smash Switch polls and I was wondering if this would be the right place to share them.

If not, a mod can correct me if that's wrong.

Anyways I'll be starting with the Mario series. Your picks are Pauline, Captain Toad, Petey Piranha, and Nabbit. I'll have a spinoff oriented one tonight before anyone asks for Waluigi or Daisy.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

So I'm getting back into Smash Switch polls and I was wondering if this would be the right place to share them.

If not, a mod can correct me if that's wrong.

Anyways I'll be starting with the Mario series. Your picks are Pauline, Captain Toad, Petey Piranha, and Nabbit. I'll have a spinoff oriented one tonight before anyone asks for Waluigi or Daisy.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There's no option for none.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

There's no option for none.

Yeah, that's why you can feel free to skip these really. I can do two a day and there's many characters to go through.

I will include and have many characters involved. So some may have many high priority picks, others can lack them.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Changes for the sake of change doesn't make it a good thing by default. The ideas suggested sound more like throwing stuff to the wall to see what sticks.
You have to understand that Link and Toon Link's moveset is consistently representative of the character's own toolkit in his home series, which aside from special themes and gimmicks unique to a game, has stayed the same. BOTW has stuff like the Sheikah Slate Runes but otherwise he still does the same things the other Links do; pull out bombs, shoot with a bow and arrow, the same sword motions, having a shield, Spin Attacks, Boomerangs minus the Hookshot. I don't see any value in replacing the much more iconic and versatile Spin Attack Up B over Revali's Gale which in function sounds similar similar to Peach and Snake's up B, nor I see any good reason to shoehorn the exploration elements when it doesn't mesh very well in a fighting game setting. What good would it do to have Link set up a campfire, cook a meal, add a stamina meter to his running animation or set off on a quest to climb a mountain in the middle of a match?

It sounds more practical and efficient if they just add an alt for BOTW Link with aesthetic changes that turns his bombs into blue spheres, kinda like Hyrule Warriors did by having different iterations of the character on the same moveset. As for the elemental arrow idea, just implement it as a new mechanic on regular Link's moveset where you can change the type of arrow with a flick of the stick or depending on how long he is charging the shot.

We'll worry about clones draining resources when we get there. If we get there. So far, they haven't been of major consequence to the development of the game in a negative way, so we are worrying about something that is not a problem.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

So far, they haven't been of major consequence to the development of the game in a negative way, so we are worrying about something that is not a problem.

You don't know that.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It should be noted that because Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf utilize their Twilight Princess incarnations, they represent the Child Timeline. Toon Link represents the Adult Timeline, since The Wind Waker (Toon Link's debut title) takes place in that very specific timeline.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I don't see why someone would care about different timelines being represented.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I don't see why someone would care about different timelines being represented.

I'm assuming people care because it helps represent more areas of the franchise.

I personally don't care either way since I'm not that big on The Legend of Zelda but whatever.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

You don't know that.

No. But I can make an educated guess based on what has been officially said about the game's development. Sakurai certainly said that they don't take much effort.

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/08/01/smash-clones/

Sorry for the doublepost, did it by mistake

 

[Cosmic77]

In all fairness can Luigi even be considered a semi-clone of Mario anymore? The two have similarly-named attacked, but play almost completely different.

That said that's the case with Mario and Dr. Mario too so...

Luigi and Wolf are the only characters where their status as semi-clone is debatable. Most of Luigi's attacks are unique to him, but he still shares a few similar moves with Mario (up Smash, down Smash, up special, neutral special, etc.). Wolf's Smash attacks and aerials are completely unique, but all of his specials are very similar to Fox and Falco's.

Dr. Mario is still considered a clone character because his Smash attacks, aerials, and specials (excluding his down special now that FLUDD exists) are all similar to Mario's.

We'll worry about clones draining resources when we get there. If we get there. So far, they haven't been of major consequence to the development of the game in a negative way, so we are worrying about something that is not a problem.

I wouldn't argue that clones are draining development time, but I will say that I think the wrong characters are getting clones. Instead of piling another clone on Mario, Link, Fox, or Marth, I think Sakurai should invest time into finding a way to make clones of newer characters from Brawl and Smash 4. Gives us more variety instead recycling the same movesets.



People are still discussing Wild Link and Toon Link? Y'know, we could add a Champion from BotW instead of another Link. They'd be cool, right?

...No? Okay then.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Zelda fans caring about timeline representation in Smash is new to me.

I'm still in the belief that Link will just be untouched from his moveset. And maybe have the Champion's outfit as an alt.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Zelda fans caring about timeline representation in Smash is new to me.

I'm still in the belief that Link will just be untouched from his moveset. And maybe have the Champion's outfit as an alt.

Yeah I can see Link having a palette that references the Champion's Tunic from Breath of the Wild.

 

[Pacack]

Even if we do follow that pattern, who else besides Inklings and a Gen VII Pokemon could they add from the Wii U and late 3DS era? Seems unlikely that the next Smash game won't put a heavy focus on the Switch and it's games.

In my mind, the following all fall under the criteria:
Inkling
Elma
Wonder Red
Toad
Captain Toad
Paper Mario
(Insert Mario Character Here)
Kamek
Dixie Kong (+Others)
Arguably Zelda characters from WWHD, TPHD, MM3D, Warriors
Alm and Celica
Bandana Dee
Wolf
Decidueye
Isabelle
Alph?
Chibi Robo
Wario Character
Rhythm Heaven Character
Style Savvy Character
Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. Character
BOXBOY

Note, this doesn't say anything about how likely they are to be selected.

Naturally, the occasional exception occurs. I could see Spring Man and Rex being popular enough for inclusion, for example.

It should be noted that it's not a matter of the "Era", but rather games that happened (or will happen like with Lucas, Lucario, and Greninja) between the previous Smash's release and when the roster for the new game is "finalized" (which is always before the game actually starts development) are the main source of influence.
Moreso with Smash 4 and Brawl than Melee or 64, though.

Oh, of course. I wasn't attempting to comment on why this was the case; I was merely wanting to highlight the pattern.

 

[Bowserlick]

Changes for the sake of change doesn't make it a good thing by default. The ideas suggested sound more like throwing stuff to the wall to see what sticks.
You have to understand that Link and Toon Link's moveset is consistently representative of the character's own toolkit in his home series, which aside from special themes and gimmicks unique to a game, has stayed the same. BOTW has stuff like the Sheikah Slate Runes but otherwise he still does the same things the other Links do; pull out bombs, shoot with a bow and arrow, the same sword motions, having a shield, Spin Attacks, Boomerangs minus the Hookshot. I don't see any value in replacing the much more iconic and versatile Spin Attack Up B over Revali's Gale which in function sounds similar similar to Peach and Snake's up B, nor I see any good reason to shoehorn the exploration elements when it doesn't mesh very well in a fighting game setting. What good would it do to have Link set up a campfire, cook a meal, add a stamina meter to his running animation or set off on a quest to climb a mountain in the middle of a match?

It sounds more practical and efficient if they just add an alt for BOTW Link with aesthetic changes that turns his bombs into blue

Breath of the Wild incorporates an open world complete with different movement options to explore the vast world. Smash also is a game of movement: double jump, dodges, recoveries, crawls, wall jumping, wall clinging, rolling, foot stool jumping, ect.

BotW Link could:
• sled with his shield as a dash
• Use side B (stamina wheel) to increase his running speed or climb up walls and ledges or if in the air, glide with his parasail until the wheel depletes
• Build a campfire of various size for his Down Smash depending on the charge. The fire creates an updraft which Link can take advantage of while riding his parasail
• Create the Lord of the Mountain with one of his specials for a mount. Link can shoot his arrows while riding his mount.
• Use Magnesis to move a mound along the stage which can pop up enemies. If used long enough, Magnesis pulls a chest from the mound. If he opens it, he gets a sword upgrade. This replicates the quest aspect found in his game.

 

[Pacack]

Also, I could very easily see Link and Zelda being given their BotW looks while Ganondorf maintains his Twilight Princess one. In fact, if you paired that with Sheik, we would have:

Breath of the Wild: Link and Zelda
Twilight Princess: Ganondorf
Wind Waker: Toon Link
Ocarina of Time: Sheik*

*While Sheik has a design inspired by Twilight Princess, she is most certainly an Ocarina of Time character foremost.

Poor Skyward Sword.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Zelda fans caring about timeline representation in Smash is new to me.

Trust me, it's far from new.

Why else do you think there are fans out there that still want Young Link when Toon Link exists?

Also, A Link Between Worlds Link (dubbed wrongly as Classic Link) did have a short lived following until Toon Link came back and killed what was left of that support.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Why else do you think there are fans out there that still want Young Link when Toon Link exists?

Because they hate how Toon Link looks?

 

[Deleted member]

If I had to chose between Young Link and Toon Link, I would chose Toon Link. Sure Young Link was in Ocarina of Time and some others, but I feel Toon Link is more iconic and recognizable. Plus, newer fans generally prefer Toon Link and I think that is Nintendo's goal for any game: to appeal to the younger audiences.

There's no option for none.

Because they hate how Toon Link looks?

Tell me, can you rethink your posts?