Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Ura]

Young Link > Toon Link

I feel that YL has a much better moveset pool to use from than TL and could be much more than a Link clone. I also find YL's aesthetic design to be a lot cooler than TL's who I think is pretty lame. Usually avoid playing as TL when I don't have to.

Of course I don't expect YL to return unless Nintendo were going to bring back all the vets and YL gets his own decloned moveset.

 

[Uffe]

RIP James McCloud

Never forget. Actually, he's in F-Zero. Not sure we'll ever see a palette of that character, though, because other than his sunglasses, I don't know how much different his colors would appear compared to Fox's.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Because they hate how Toon Link looks?

I find that there's nothing wrong with utilizing a cartoon art style in games. In fact, I often think that it looks odd (and even out of place) to see realistic-looking creatures in cartoonish games; for an example, the T-Rex and Ruined Dragon look way out of place in a Super Mario title (a series that's well-known for being cartoonish with its characters), due to their more realistic appearances.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I find that there's nothing wrong with utilizing a cartoon art style in games. In fact, I often think that it looks odd (and even out of place) to see realistic-looking creatures in cartoonish games; for an example, the T-Rex and Ruined Dragon look way out of place in a Super Mario title (a series that's well-known for being cartoonish with its characters), due to their more realistic appearances.

That's actually the exact reason I like them.

The T-Rex and Ruined Dragon don't look like anything from a previous Mario game; I like how Super Mario Odyssey took risks like that, and they all paid off.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That's actually the exact reason I like them.

The T-Rex and Ruined Dragon don't look like anything from a previous Mario game; I like how Super Mario Odyssey took risks like that, and they all paid off.

Ironically, they'd probably be more in place with the Final Fantasy, Monster Hunter, or even Dark Souls franchises.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Ironically, they'd probably be more in place with the Final Fantasy, Monster Hunter, or even Dark Souls franchises.

I just call it the Bayonetta Kingdom.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I just call it the Bayonetta Kingdom.

Now that you've mentioned it, the Ruined Dragon would definitely feel more at home in the Bayonetta franchise, especially since it's home to a good amount of realistic monsters, such as Gomorrah.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

The votes were tallied up and I can say they were expected. Captain Toad scored high with flying colors while it was Pauline who broke from her short lived tie with Petey Piranha. Must be the Odyssey hype and some Captain Toad fans.
Anyway, the next Mario series poll is ready with spinoff Mario characters as the focus. It's between Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, and Toadette. Though it's rather obvious the first two will be going neck and neck the whole time.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Anyways, enjoy.

 

[Deleted member]

The votes were tallied up and I can say they were expected. Captain Toad scored high with flying colors while it was Pauline who broke from her short lived tie with Petey Piranha. Must be the Odyssey hype and some Captain Toad fans.
Anyway, the next Mario series poll is ready with spinoff Mario characters as the focus. It's between Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, and Toadette. Though it's rather obvious the first two will be going neck and neck the whole time.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Anyways, enjoy.

Waluigi. It's time he gets his chance.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

The votes were tallied up and I can say they were expected. Captain Toad scored high with flying colors while it was Pauline who broke from her short lived tie with Petey Piranha. Must be the Odyssey hype and some Captain Toad fans.
Anyway, the next Mario series poll is ready with spinoff Mario characters as the focus. It's between Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, and Toadette. Though it's rather obvious the first two will be going neck and neck the whole time.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Anyways, enjoy.

Hmm, I would say Waluigi is as close as a "decent" Mario character since him and Wario are basically "evil" counterparts of Mario & Luigi, so it would be kinda weird not to include him. Not that I'm a big fan of him, he could be interesting if he were to become a playable character and all. He's bit of a joke character, but a good one. (Reason is because I actually like Mario Strikers Charged's interpretation of Waluigi. It's...a little off putting but fun.)

 

[PixelSun]

Kill me but I'd actually like more to have Birdo. The Yoshi saga needs more representation imo and this could be it's chance to shine, also why toadette

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Hmm, I would say Waluigi is as close as a "decent" Mario character since him and Wario are basically "evil" counterparts of Mario & Luigi, so it would be kinda weird not to include him. Not that I'm a big fan of him, he could be interesting if he were to become a playable character and all. He's bit of a joke character, but a good one. (Reason is because I actually like Mario Strikers Charged's interpretation of Waluigi. It's...a little off putting but fun.)

I think the term "fighting clown" would fit Waluigi more.

The term "joke character" in fighting games refers to a character that is made intentionally bad, not intentionally funny.

Kill me but I'd actually like more to have Birdo. The Yoshi saga needs more representation imo and this could be it's chance to shine, also why toadette

But Birdo isn't a Yoshi character though?

 

[PixelSun]

But Birdo isn't a Yoshi character though?

shhh
that's between you and me

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

I think the term "fighting clown" would fit Waluigi more.

The term "joke character" in fighting games refers to a character that is made intentionally bad, not intentionally funny.

Yeah, whatever it fits that way.

Whoops, it seems like you posted comments at least twice. You know those adminstrators aren't exactly happy about that...just saying.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Yeah, whatever it fits that way.

Whoops, it seems like you posted comments at least twice. You know those adminstrators aren't exactly happy about that...just saying.

yeah I reported my second post, requesting it to be combined with my first one.

 

[N3ON]

I would enjoy a character that would defy the laws of physics and decency to the extent air-swimming, crotch-chopping Waluigi would.

Also I figure his moveset would revolve around cheating, even though everyone cheats but him. And that sounds fun.

Plus I just don't get the appeal of tomboy Peach. I kinda question the pure popularity of a character who only started getting much attention after Bowser Jr and Rosalina were included and people resigned themselves that Toad, Waluigi, and Geno weren't happening. Picture all those characters and Daisy get in... and then people start seriously requesting like... Birdo. It'd feel weird, wouldn't it?

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Yeah, I would say Birdo is the most questionable of the bunch since she kind of haven't been appearing in much spinoff titles lately.

Then again, there's not much you can do with a character that came from a Mario game that was originally a FujiTV celebration. Super Mario Bros 2 has one of the most confusing origins ever. Not a Mario game, yet many characters like Birdo, Bob-Omb, and more became Mario trademarks.

 

[Luminario]

I would enjoy a character that would defy the laws of physics and decency to the extent air-swimming, crotch-chopping Waluigi would.

Also I figure his moveset would revolve around cheating, even though everyone cheats but him. And that sounds fun.

Plus I just don't get the appeal of tomboy Peach. I kinda question the pure popularity of a character who only started getting much attention after Bowser Jr and Rosalina were included and people resigned themselves that Toad, Waluigi, and Geno weren't happening. Picture all those characters and Daisy get in... and then people start seriously requesting like... Birdo. It'd feel weird, wouldn't it?

Now that's not fair, Daisy has always been rather popular as a character, and while Birdo is further down the popularity list she does have her fans.
I don't get the appeal of lanky Wario. At least Daisy's personality differs from her counterpart.

 

[Bowserlick]

Now that's not fair, Daisy has always been rather popular as a character, and while Birdo is further down the popularity list she does have her fans.
I don't get the appeal of lanky Wario. At least Daisy's personality differs from her counterpart.

Waluigi lacks confidence. In this aspect, he is like Luigi. Wario is a showboater and steals the thunder much like Mario.

Waluigi and Wario also come with known differences that should be factored into Smash. Wario is heavier with stumpy arms not capable of much range, while Waluigi has the longest limbs of all four capped, mustachioed men. Peach and Daisy have much less demand of differences than the two W's.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I used to be staunchly apposed on the grounds Waluigi was ridiculous. But, you know what I say? I say the emblem you use matters, but the emblem you're from does not.

Just put Waluigi as a Wario character. Waluigi is a fantastic idea for Smash if you give him his own original moves like Wario. No stupid Mario Tennis/Party/Spin off stuff (I mean maybe a Tennis racket). Use Waluigi's personality as a basis for creating entirely new made up moves based on the traits that are completely unique to Waluigi. Maybe then it may inspire the developers to put Waluigi in a Wario Land game. His character traits are why people want him in the first place.

He's quite possibly one of the most interesting additions and a highly supported one at that. So that should be his basis for whether he makes or brakes it.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I never thought a minor mistake like labeling Waluigi as a Wario character in the Smash Direct would have such an effect on making people believe he's better as Wario rep. Then again, the two are partners in crime in the Mario spinoff titles.

Though ironically, he's more well known than any of the Wario cast who isn't named Ashley.

 

[Bowserlick]

WALUIGI MOVESET​

Waluigi brings his self-loathing lanky body and seething anger issues into Smash. He will cheat, explode and humiliate his opponents with a fury of long limbs and an arsenal of Mustache-themed weapons. With high jumps and long legs, Waluigi has all the range. He may not have the power of Wario, but Waluigi can rack up the damage and kick his enemies into oblivion.

Waluigi Mechanic: Tantrum

The (A) button can be held after any attack input in order for Waluigi to engage in a multi-hit flurry repetition of the attack (while of course whining out a string of Waaaa's or his name from his mouth; each attack gets its own variation of his Waaa exclamation).

This is similar to what many characters have for their standard (A) attack. Waluigi would be able to do this for most or all of his attacks. While the tantrum version would have low knock-back and stun, the attack could be added for shield pressure and cover.

Spoiler

SPECIALS

(B) Whiskered Eggplant - Waluigi winds up a pitch, holding a purple eggplant with a mustache. Charging the attack allows for a further and faster thrown eggplant. If the eggplant connects there is a chance, depending on factors such as the charge of the attack and the opponent's damage, that the opponent is transformed.
• The opponent gets a Waluigi mustache
• The opponent loses his/her (B) move
• The opponent gains Whiskered Eggplant as a (B) move
• The opponent can get back his/her B move back, and lose the insulting mustache, by hitting Waluigi with the eggplant or infecting another opponent with the Whiskered Eggplant

(Side B) Tennis Racket Strike - Waluigi swings forward a tennis racket. This move can be charged. The attack does moderate damage to an opponent. However, the real feature is the racket's reflective properties.
• Projectiles that are hit, puff away in a cartoon cloud and many little purple Bo-ombs (each with a mustache) are sent back in scatter form. The Bo-ombs' explosions have multiple hits and can accumulate for decent knock-back. The amount of bombs depends on the charge of the move and strength of the projectile.

(Up B) Frantic Swim - Waluigi swims in the air performing four breaststrokes. The first three strokes do small damage, while the fourth does decent damage and sends the opponent in the opposite direction that Waluigi is swimming. Each breaststroke has a directional input.

(Down B) Big Bomb - Waluigi hops up and a large, dark purple bomb in a round form of Waluigi's face appears underneath his feet. He can run on top of the bomb lumberjack style and navigate left or right or jump off. The bomb does less damage than Wario's bike. The main reason for the bomb is the large explosion.
• The Bomb can not be picked up or reflected (although reflecting moves still damage it).
• The Bomb goes off after a set time duration or afters its HP has been depleted by damage.
• The Bomb goes in the direction an attack hits it in. Weak attacks do not move it much.
• Waluigi can mount the bomb by pressing (Down B) while near his weapon.
• The explosion is big and sends people flying.
• The Bomb has a cool-down property after it explodes or after it goes off a stage.

STANDARD ATTACKS

(A) Waluigi places two curled fists at his hips and thrusts his pelvic forward. Holding (A) makes him gyrate his crotch and fists continuously (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Side A) Stands on one leg and kicks forward, while punching forward with two fists. Holding (A) will have quick repeats of this odd behavior (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi). * Which if looked at from a bird's eye view, his striking limbs form a 'W.'

(Up A) Waluigi kicks up a leg backwards and holds his foot above his head. He then spins in place. Holding (A) will have him spin for a longer time (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Down A) Waluigi lays flat on his stomach, his rump in the air and his arms folded in front of his grinning face. A press of (A) will have him lurch forward while performing a breast stroke. Holding (A) will have him swim in place (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Running A) Waluigi performs a clothesline, which can knock an opponent to the ground. Holding (A) will result in running with the held clothesline move for longer, but for less damage and without the tripping effect (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

SMASHES

(Forward Smash) Waluigi holds his body up on his hands, arms locked behind him with his long legs off the ground and splayed open like scissors. His legs and feet come together in a slap. Holding (A) will result in weaker slaps after the initial one (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Up Smash) Waluigi hunkers down, facing the screen with his knees bent to either side of him. He springs upwards in order to fully extend his body. His arms are raised above his head, with his hands pressed together at the palms and flat in order to push his opponent into the sky. Similar to Wario's Up (A) tilt. Holding (A) will have him pulsate up and down for weaker hits
(while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Down Smash) Waluigi does a break-dance with his legs doing one rotation around his body. A press of (A) will keep the party going longer (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

AERIALS

(Neutral Aerial) Waluigi faces the screen and does a split in the air. If (A) is held, he repeatedly performs a few quick splits in succession (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Forward Aerial) Waluigi performs a soccer kick. A hold of (A) will have him perform many rapid soccer kicks (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Back Aerial) Waluigi performs a spinning backhand. A hold of (A) will have him perform many spinning backhands (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Down Aerial) Waluigi kicks down with one leg and then another. These kicks can bury an opponent in the ground, and both have weak meteor properties. A hold of (A) will have him frantically stomping down (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Up Aerial) Waluigi faces the screen and punches upwards with one fist and then the other. Waluigi will fist pump the air with a hold of the (A) button (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

THROWS

(Throw Pummel) Waluigi performs a kidney punch similar to Wario.

(Forward Throw) Waluigi throws up his opponent and pulls out a racket for a serve. During the animation, Waliugi can input the angle of his hit.

(Back Throw) The same as Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario and Wario. Waluigi swings his opponent around before flinging him backwards. Waluigi holds out his enemy further than the Mario Brothers, but with a weaker throw.

(Down Throw) Waluigi holds his opponent above his head, arms extended before throwing them to the floor.

(Up Throw) Same in appearance as Waluigi's back throw, except that at the end he tosses the enemy upwards.

 

[N3ON]

Now that's not fair, Daisy has always been rather popular as a character, and while Birdo is further down the popularity list she does have her fans.

Well my whole point is that she hasn't. She's never had zero popularity, but it's never really amounted to much until most of the more popular options were included or deconfirmed. Go look at Smash discussions pre... like... 2014. It's like when people say K. Rool has always been requested. No, he only started getting serious requests after Diddy got in. But the K. Rool demand I get. And again the Birdo thing is my point. Birdo definitely is down the line from Daisy, but Daisy is down the line from who used to receive a lot of requests.

It's like if we get Bandana Dee and people start requesting like Susie and Magolor and whatnot.

I don't get the appeal of lanky Wario. At least Daisy's personality differs from her counterpart.

I was anticipating this response. That's fair if you don't get the appeal, I understand why people aren't big on Waluigi, but the different in physiology is much greater in the context of Smash than the difference in personality. Honestly personality is the crutch a character weighs on when that's all the originality they can offer, because personality would have a minor impact on differentiating a moveset. Like, maybe a move here and there.
If Daisy could offer as much importance to her series or originality in moveset as you typical popular candidate, that'd be the tactic people would use towards arguing her inclusion. All she has is a different personality.

I don't really care about Waluigi to any great extent, but it just seems obvious that he lends himself to a unique moveset much easier and with more likelihood than Daisy. I maintain that almost any character can be unique, Daisy included, but I just don't see that happening in her case. I would argue Waluigi's popularity is in excess of hers, it's existed longer, and he provides the bigger departure in terms of moveset if not personality. I'm not saying he himself is due inclusion, but that stuff matters more. And that's what I don't get. Daisy is literally a haircut and an attitude away from Peach.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

The votes were tallied up and I can say they were expected. Captain Toad scored high with flying colors while it was Pauline who broke from her short lived tie with Petey Piranha. Must be the Odyssey hype and some Captain Toad fans.
Anyway, the next Mario series poll is ready with spinoff Mario characters as the focus. It's between Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, and Toadette. Though it's rather obvious the first two will be going neck and neck the whole time.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Anyways, enjoy.

Waluigi would be my go to choice for a new Mario character if we're branching outside of the mainline Mario games. Even based on the spin-off games, Waluigi has enough charm and potential to work with to create a feasible Smash Bros move set. Examples could include a Neutral special based on Mario Tennis based on a serve - he can either attack using the racquet for a direct melee attack or serve a fast tennis ball projectile. Breakdancing could work for a down-special, and maybe a Dice Special owing to the Mario Party games.

Most essential part is the crotch-chop as a taunt. No crotch-chop, not buying.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

WALUIGI MOVESET​

Waluigi brings his self-loathing lanky body and seething anger issues into Smash. He will cheat, explode and humiliate his opponents with a fury of long limbs and an arsenal of Mustache-themed weapons. With high jumps and long legs, Waluigi has all the range. He may not have the power of Wario, but Waluigi can rack up the damage and kick his enemies into oblivion.

Waluigi Mechanic: Tantrum

The (A) button can be held after any attack input in order for Waluigi to engage in a multi-hit flurry repetition of the attack (while of course whining out a string of Waaaa's or his name from his mouth; each attack gets its own variation of his Waaa exclamation).

This is similar to what many characters have for their standard (A) attack. Waluigi would be able to do this for most or all of his attacks. While the tantrum version would have low knock-back and stun, the attack could be added for shield pressure and cover.

Spoiler

SPECIALS

(B) Whiskered Eggplant - Waluigi winds up a pitch, holding a purple eggplant with a mustache. Charging the attack allows for a further and faster thrown eggplant. If the eggplant connects there is a chance, depending on factors such as the charge of the attack and the opponent's damage, that the opponent is transformed.
• The opponent gets a Waluigi mustache
• The opponent loses his/her (B) move
• The opponent gains Whiskered Eggplant as a (B) move
• The opponent can get back his/her B move back, and lose the insulting mustache, by hitting Waluigi with the eggplant or infecting another opponent with the Whiskered Eggplant

(Side B) Tennis Racket Strike - Waluigi swings forward a tennis racket. This move can be charged. The attack does moderate damage to an opponent. However, the real feature is the racket's reflective properties.
• Projectiles that are hit, puff away in a cartoon cloud and many little purple Bo-ombs (each with a mustache) are sent back in scatter form. The Bo-ombs' explosions have multiple hits and can accumulate for decent knock-back. The amount of bombs depends on the charge of the move and strength of the projectile.

(Up B) Frantic Swim - Waluigi swims in the air performing four breaststrokes. The first three strokes do small damage, while the fourth does decent damage and sends the opponent in the opposite direction that Waluigi is swimming. Each breaststroke has a directional input.

(Down B) Big Bomb - Waluigi hops up and a large, dark purple bomb in a round form of Waluigi's face appears underneath his feet. He can run on top of the bomb lumberjack style and navigate left or right or jump off. The bomb does less damage than Wario's bike. The main reason for the bomb is the large explosion.
• The Bomb can not be picked up or reflected (although reflecting moves still damage it).
• The Bomb goes off after a set time duration or afters its HP has been depleted by damage.
• The Bomb goes in the direction an attack hits it in. Weak attacks do not move it much.
• Waluigi can mount the bomb by pressing (Down B) while near his weapon.
• The explosion is big and sends people flying.
• The Bomb has a cool-down property after it explodes or after it goes off a stage.

STANDARD ATTACKS

(A) Waluigi places two curled fists at his hips and thrusts his pelvic forward. Holding (A) makes him gyrate his crotch and fists continuously (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Side A) Stands on one leg and kicks forward, while punching forward with two fists. Holding (A) will have quick repeats of this odd behavior (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi). * Which if looked at from a bird's eye view, his striking limbs form a 'W.'

(Up A) Waluigi kicks up a leg backwards and holds his foot above his head. He then spins in place. Holding (A) will have him spin for a longer time (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Down A) Waluigi lays flat on his stomach, his rump in the air and his arms folded in front of his grinning face. A press of (A) will have him lurch forward while performing a breast stroke. Holding (A) will have him swim in place (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Running A) Waluigi performs a clothesline, which can knock an opponent to the ground. Holding (A) will result in running with the held clothesline move for longer, but for less damage and without the tripping effect (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

SMASHES

(Forward Smash) Waluigi holds his body up on his hands, arms locked behind him with his long legs off the ground and splayed open like scissors. His legs and feet come together in a slap. Holding (A) will result in weaker slaps after the initial one (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Up Smash) Waluigi hunkers down, facing the screen with his knees bent to either side of him. He springs upwards in order to fully extend his body. His arms are raised above his head, with his hands pressed together at the palms and flat in order to push his opponent into the sky. Similar to Wario's Up (A) tilt. Holding (A) will have him pulsate up and down for weaker hits
(while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Down Smash) Waluigi does a break-dance with his legs doing one rotation around his body. A press of (A) will keep the party going longer (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

AERIALS

(Neutral Aerial) Waluigi faces the screen and does a split in the air. If (A) is held, he repeatedly performs a few quick splits in succession (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Forward Aerial) Waluigi performs a soccer kick. A hold of (A) will have him perform many rapid soccer kicks (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Back Aerial) Waluigi performs a spinning backhand. A hold of (A) will have him perform many spinning backhands (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Down Aerial) Waluigi kicks down with one leg and then another. These kicks can bury an opponent in the ground, and both have weak meteor properties. A hold of (A) will have him frantically stomping down (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

(Up Aerial) Waluigi faces the screen and punches upwards with one fist and then the other. Waluigi will fist pump the air with a hold of the (A) button (while screaming Waaaa or Waluigi).

THROWS

(Throw Pummel) Waluigi performs a kidney punch similar to Wario.

(Forward Throw) Waluigi throws up his opponent and pulls out a racket for a serve. During the animation, Waliugi can input the angle of his hit.

(Back Throw) The same as Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario and Wario. Waluigi swings his opponent around before flinging him backwards. Waluigi holds out his enemy further than the Mario Brothers, but with a weaker throw.

(Down Throw) Waluigi holds his opponent above his head, arms extended before throwing them to the floor.

(Up Throw) Same in appearance as Waluigi's back throw, except that at the end he tosses the enemy upwards.

Very interesting. As long as he brings those shining eyes of greed. And it'd be really cool if he had attacks with darkness/poison and flower head effects.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Though ironically, he's more well known than any of the Wario cast who isn't named Ashley.

Actually, Walugi is more well known than Ashley. If you share the average joe an image of Waluigi and Ashley respectively, he's bound to recognize the purple lanky guy than the gothic loli witch.

Ashley is just kind fo lucky to have her level of popularly for Wario spinoff where only Wario himself would be more memorable than the rest of the cast. She's the only exception because of said fans.

Yeah, I'll just save that for a future Wario representation discussion.

 

[Luminario]

Waluigi lacks confidence. In this aspect, he is like Luigi. Wario is a showboater and steals the thunder much like Mario.

He does? It really doesn't come across that well.

Waluigi and Wario also come with known differences that should be factored into Smash. Wario is heavier with stumpy arms not capable of much range, while Waluigi has the longest limbs of all four capped, mustachioed men. Peach and Daisy have much less demand of differences than the two W's.

I was anticipating this response. That's fair if you don't get the appeal, I understand why people aren't big on Waluigi, but the different in physiology is much greater in the context of Smash than the difference in personality. Honestly personality is the crutch a character weighs on when that's all the originality they can offer, because personality would have a minor impact on differentiating a moveset. Like, maybe a move here and there.
If Daisy could offer as much importance to her series or originality in moveset as you typical popular candidate, or even Waluigi for the latter, that'd be the tactic people would use towards arguing her inclusion. All she has is a different personality.

I don't really care about Waluigi to any great extent, but it just seems obvious that he lends himself to a unique moveset much easier and with more likelihood than Daisy. I maintain that almost any character can be unique, Daisy included, but I just don't see that happening in Daisy's case. I would argue Waluigi's popularity is in excess of hers, it's existed longer, and he provides the bigger departure in terms of moveset if not personality. I'm not saying he himself is due inclusion, but that stuff matters more. And that's what I don't get. Daisy is literally a haircut and an attitude away from Peach.

Yeah, I get your points
I believe we've been through this exact conversation about Daisy before aaaages ago. I'm guessing if I refute with Daisy's flower power abilities you'll add on that it doesn't translate to Smash that well or won't offer that much of a difference compared to Peach or to a potential Waluigi moveset, leading to the conclusion that Daisy would only likely get in as a quick Peach semi-clone which at least boosts her possibility of being added.
I still don't think Waluigi offers any consistent ability other than he sorta cheats games and physics a bit though. Besides a swimming-through-the-air up B I can't see much that can be drawn from his appearances that would do well to make him unique in Smash. Maybe the mechanical backpack from Mario Sports Mix could be a down B buff that lets him do multihit attacks for a single smash attack?
edit: actually scratch that I'm seeing other good stuff in his wiki page.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Actually, Walugi is more well known than Ashley. If you share the average joe an image of Waluigi and Ashley respectively, he's bound to recognize the purple lanky guy than the gothic loli witch.

Ashley is just kind fo lucky to have her level of popularly for Wario spinoff where only Wario himself would be more memorable than the rest of the cast. She's the only exception because of said fans.

Yeah, I'll just save that for a future Wario representation discussion.

Yeah, I acknowledge that. It would be unfair to compare a reoccurring Mario spinoff star to an ensemble darkhorse in a less notable spinoff series centered on Wario.

I can definitely say that Ashley is fortunate enough for said popularity. Hence her being an Assist Trophy and almost having as much badges as Isabelle in Nintendo Badge Arcade. It's as if she's like a secondary face to WarioWare over the rest of the cast.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

It probably wouldn't happen in a million years, but I would LOVE to see Baby Mario as a Yoshi character. I've loved him ever since I played Mario Golf as a kid.

It could theoretically work if you made him more angry and determined or possibly slightly bigger/older. It's just his interaction with specific characters that comes to my mind when I think about it. Specifically Mario, Yoshi, and Bayonetta.

But there are some games where he is in the action and a lot more angry/determined. Like these ones:

Spoiler

and an example of a taller Baby Mario

I would hope Sakurai at least gets him on the drawing board and really puts his all into it before deciding that it doesn't work.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I was anticipating this response. That's fair if you don't get the appeal, I understand why people aren't big on Waluigi, but the different in physiology is much greater in the context of Smash than the difference in personality. Honestly personality is the crutch a character weighs on when that's all the originality they can offer, because personality would have a minor impact on differentiating a moveset. Like, maybe a move here and there.
If Daisy could offer as much importance to her series or originality in moveset as you typical popular candidate, that'd be the tactic people would use towards arguing her inclusion. All she has is a different personality.

I don't really care about Waluigi to any great extent, but it just seems obvious that he lends himself to a unique moveset much easier and with more likelihood than Daisy. I maintain that almost any character can be unique, Daisy included, but I just don't see that happening in her case. I would argue Waluigi's popularity is in excess of hers, it's existed longer, and he provides the bigger departure in terms of moveset if not personality. I'm not saying he himself is due inclusion, but that stuff matters more. And that's what I don't get. Daisy is literally a haircut and an attitude away from Peach.

I mean I always pictured Daisy being a representation for the Mario sports games; since she's a tomboy and a sporty character, I'd give Daisy her sports outfit (plus an alt with her armor from Mario Strikers Charged) and give her various sports equipment. Neutral special can be serving a tennis ball, up special can be a slam dunk, down special could be her crystal ability from the aforementioned Mario Strikers Charged, the list goes on. It may feel uninspired to some, but it'd at least be a way to make her different from Peach moveset-wise.

Now one can say that this could easily be applied to Waluigi as well, as the two are pretty much now spin-off only characters, and if that's the case I'd say it's either gonna be one or the other. I'd personally go with Daisy, but that's just me.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

It probably wouldn't happen in a million years, but I would LOVE to see Baby Mario as a Yoshi character. I've loved him ever since I played Mario Golf as a kid.

It could theoretically work if you made him more angry and determined or possibly slightly bigger/older. It's just his interaction with specific characters that comes to my mind when I think about it. Specifically Mario, Yoshi, and Bayonetta.

But there are some games where he is in the action and a lot more angry/determined. Like these ones:

Spoiler

and an example of a taller Baby Mario

I would hope Sakurai at least gets him on the drawing board and really puts his all into it before deciding that it doesn't work.

I wouldn't mind Baby Mario either.

He's arguably more plausible than the likes of Poochy or Baby Bowser.

Kamek is really up in the air because of the whole localization issue of him being generic or not his own Magikoopa in Japan (Kamek is the name used for all Magikoopas than a unique name). While that's different in the West.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Kamek is really up in the air because of the whole localization issue of him being generic or not his own Magikoopa in Japan (Kamek is the name used for all Magikoopas than a unique name). While that's different in the West.

This is the one thing that makes me lose hope in a playable Kamek. Well other than him being a stage hazard.

Imagine being a Western fan asking for Kamek, and chances are Sakurai would think we are talking about a random Magikoopa than the one from Yoshi's Island who raised Bowser to be the king he is.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

It probably wouldn't happen in a million years, but I would LOVE to see Baby Mario as a Yoshi character. I've loved him ever since I played Mario Golf as a kid.

It could theoretically work if you made him more angry and determined or possibly slightly bigger/older. It's just his interaction with specific characters that comes to my mind when I think about it. Specifically Mario, Yoshi, and Bayonetta.

But there are some games where he is in the action and a lot more angry/determined. Like these ones:

Spoiler

and an example of a taller Baby Mario

I would hope Sakurai at least gets him on the drawing board and really puts his all into it before deciding that it doesn't work.

Baby Mario would be an interesting character, but I personally would rather see Kamek get in as the second Yoshi character.

Now if we can get BOTH in Smash 5 that would be a godsend...

This is the one thing that makes me lose hope in a playable Kamek. Well other than him being a stage hazard.

Imagine being a Western fan asking for Kamek, and chances are Sakurai would think we are talking about a random Magikoopa than the one from Yoshi's Island who raised Bowser to be the king he is.

I highly doubt Sakurai is unaware that Kamek is named Kamek in the West.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, I get your points
I believe we've been through this exact conversation about Daisy before aaaages ago. I'm guessing if I refute with Daisy's flower power abilities you'll add on that it doesn't translate to Smash that well or won't offer that much of a difference compared to Peach or to a potential Waluigi moveset, leading to the conclusion that Daisy would only likely get in as a quick Peach semi-clone which at least boosts her possibility of being added.

More or less. You're right, we have had a similar conversation before. And I'm not saying Daisy can't be unique, I'm saying I sincerely doubt, should she be included, she would be. It just seems like advocating for a character whose crowning achievement would be becoming a semi-clone. I have similar feelings about Chrom (though it's not a 1:1 thing; that's a different conversation entirely) and... Dark Pit...

And I guess that's only part of my issue. I truly don't understand the fervour for a character who offers, imo, so little, and whose role in her own series of origin is, imo, so trivial. If she had even one of those things it'd be more understandable to me. Plus I can't shake my awareness that her popularity only truly manifested itself upon the dissolution of others, such as Rosalina and especially Bowser Jr, Toad, and Waluigi. To me she just seems like a "who do we have left?" character in every sense.

I still don't think Waluigi offers any consistent ability other than he sorta cheats games and physics a bit though. Besides a swimming-through-the-air up B I can't see much that can be drawn from his appearances that would do well to make him unique in Smash. Maybe the mechanical backpack from Mario Sports Mix could be a down B buff that lets him do multihit attacks for a single smash attack?

Well one key difference between Waluigi and Daisy is that Waluigi is more than a model tweak away from his parallel. Which means should he be implemented, seems quite unlikely he'd be based around Wario. In that vein, you'd have to rely on a unique moveset, one of which has been provided just a few posts earlier. I suspect Waluigi supporters would be better to ask, but a moveset that revolves around fighting dirty, trickery, and defying physics (possibly with references to some of the Mario spin-offs) seems a fitting moveset for Waluigi. I mean even when he shows up with his tennis racquet as an AT, the bulk of the attack is just him kicking you into the dirt, which is very Waluigi.

Dampierre (minus the hidden blades) from SoulCalibur could be a loose comparison in theme.

I mean I always pictured Daisy being a representation for the Mario sports games; since she's a tomboy and a sporty character, I'd give Daisy her sports outfit (plus an alt with her armor from Mario Strikers Charged) and give her various sports equipment. Neutral special can be serving a tennis ball, up special can be a slam dunk, down special could be her crystal ability from the aforementioned Mario Strikers Charged, the list goes on. It may feel uninspired to some, but it'd at least be a way to make her different from Peach moveset-wise.

Now one can say that this could easily be applied to Waluigi as well, as the two are pretty much now spin-off only characters, and if that's the case I'd say it's either gonna be one or the other. I'd personally go with Daisy, but that's just me.

Yeah, she could play that role. I'm just wondering why she would play that role, when there's a more popular option who needn't be sporting an alternate, less recognizable costume.

And of course there's just the general issue of that having little to do with Daisy in particular.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The west's interpretation is irrelevant. Kamek is just a Magikoopa and he is never depicted as anything more in the west than he is in Japan by anything, but name. Which is why Kamek has never been given an original design and probably never will.

I considered him getting an original design as a Smash characer, but that was before I knew Magikoopa was called Kamek in Japan. Maybe if he was the main villain that could happen, but he's not.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Yeah, so there's no way Magikoopa is happening. It doesn't matter what he's called in the west. In Japan Kamek is just another Magikoopa.

Exactly why does being an ordinary Magikoopa in Japan destroy his chances?

We don't need a definitive Yoshi or Jigglypuff in Smash, and considering Kamek/Magikoopa plays a pretty big role in the Mario and Yoshi games, his place would be justified.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Exactly why does being an ordinary Magikoopa in Japan destroy his chances?

We don't need a definitive Yoshi or Jigglypuff in Smash, and considering Kamek/Magikoopa plays a pretty big role in the Mario and Yoshi games, his place would be justified.

Yoshi appears as the main character in his own series and Pokemon is a whole other ball game.

Very, very bad comparison there. Not even close to equivalent. Apples and oranges as they say.

EDIT: Kamek isn't even the villian in Yoshi's Island. He's just another one of Bowser's minions that just happens to be more useful to him, so you see him more often.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Yoshi appears as the main character in his own series and Pokemon is a whole other ball game.

Very, very bad comparison there. Not even close to equivalent. Why don't we just start adding

Fair point, still I don't see the issue with Kamek/Magikoopa being included in Smash. If it's because Magikoopas are general grunts in Bowser's army like Goombas and Koopas, it's made pretty clear that they serve as elites and are among the high-ranks. Furthermore, the games Kamek appears in (the Yoshi's Island, Mario & Luigi, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, and New Super Mario Bros. games come to mind) usually depict him being the only Magikoopa there.

As I mentioned, his place in the roster would be justified. Magikoopa(s) in Japan have just as big of a role as Kamek does in the West.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Fair point, still I don't see the issue with Kamek/Magikoopa being included in Smash. If it's because Magikoopas are general grunts in Bowser's army like Goombas and Koopas, it's made pretty clear that they serve as elites and are among the high-ranks. Furthermore, the games Kamek appears in (the Yoshi's Island, Mario & Luigi, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, and New Super Mario Bros. games come to mind) usually depict him being the only Magikoopa there.

As I mentioned, his place in the roster would be justified. Magikoopa(s) in Japan have just as big of a role as Kamek does in the West.

Personally, I think he should have been given an original design and made into his own character a LONG time ago. I doubt Smash will be the one to do that, but it'd be cool.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Personally, I think he should have been given an original design and made into his own character a LONG time ago. I doubt Smash will be the one to do that, but it'd be cool.

I think that's partially because Kamek/Magikoopa suffers a Yoshi/Toad situation in Japan; he is in fact a standalone character, but shares his name with the rest of the species. And for whatever reason he was given the name "Kamek" in the West for Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island and it stuck.

That said, I'd be down for a redesign. If it does happen, I think it'd need to happen outside of Smash though.

EDIT: for the record I've mentioned Kamek being an ordinary Magikoopa in Japan in previous posts, disrgarding my above statement, so take this with a grain of salt. If this comes off as me splitting hairs I apologize.