Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ChocolatGelgato]

it's funny because when smash 4 came out on 3ds i spotted the sneaky spirits in smash run and I was like "Yo sneaky sprits and polar bear are the only non repped enemies in smash run don't you think that's a bit sus" and everyone went lmao no until it turned out it wasn't the case. Y'all need to stop pretending gematsu rused you and ruined your life and understand that sometimes characters survive planning phase but not implementation.

I ain't even holding real ground in Verge atm, my speculation follows his leaks because i think there's enough grounds to follow, but that's called speculation for a reason, anything could happen.

Sometimes, people are actually trying to be honest, even if they are misinformed in the end, don't start freaking out over **** for no reason.

EDIT: He didn't say who, apparently someone earlier claimed a he made a "you know who" comment which would likely lock it to geno, but I can't find any proof he said that.

 

[MrSmashFour]

If that's the case, why did Brawl leakers only know half of the roster?

Leakers never know the entire story, period. Brawl was a shining example of this.


Besides, Rhythm Heaven wasn't on this project plan you're thinking of, yet we have irrefutable evidence that shows it was going to get a playable character at one point in development.

We don't have the Brawl project proposal, so we don't know which characters were planned from the start.

We do have the Sm4sh project proposal, and on there are characters that had been planned from the beginning, and yet Gematsu never mentioned

 

[Shroob]

We don't have the Brawl project proposal, so we don't know which characters were planned from the start.

We do have the Sm4sh project proposal, and on there are characters that had been planned from the beginning, and yet Gematsu never mentioned

So, where's Rhythm Heaven on this project proposal?

Because until you can explain away the fact that it was going to get a playable character, your argument boils down to "Tinfoil Hat"

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I mean, it's not impossible for Verge's claims to be lucky guesses.

But with what he's gotten right so far, he'd have to be really damn lucky. The probability of the information being false seems really low.

I trust his claims well enough. And if you do as well, I still wouldn't fully anticipate that every last one of the characters he's mentioned will get in just yet.

This could end up being similar to Gemastu in some regards; the info could end up being partially outdated.

 

[MrSmashFour]

...Except he also called Palutena and Shulk who were not revealed at E3 and were not locks? Except he also never claimed the character list was comprehensive and as such Rosalina was not a knock against it? Except of the characters he messed up one has a full 3D model and was at some point discussed/planned and the other has a few files left in the game pointing to them having been planned in spite of their being an incredibly unsafe pick?

Palutena and Shulk, as was my original point in how this ties in to Verge, were lucky guesses.

 

[Opossum]

We don't have the Brawl project proposal, so we don't know which characters were planned from the start.

We do have the Sm4sh project proposal, and on there are characters that had been planned from the beginning, and yet Gematsu never mentioned

Want to tell me right now how he specifically called the Mii Fighters (not Miis, Mii Fighters SPECIFICALLY) if it was a lucky guess?

 

[MrSmashFour]

So, where's Rhythm Heaven on this project proposal?

Because until you can explain away the fact that it was going to get a playable character, your argument boils down to "Tinfoil Hat"

Censored, duh. Sakurai's hardly gonna include pages about stuff that didn't make it into the game.

That's just plain common sense

 

[Shroob]

Censored, duh. Sakurai's hardly gonna include pages about stuff that didn't make it into the game.

"I can't explain it, thus I'm not going to think about it."

 

[Will]

So, where's Rhythm Heaven on this project proposal?

Because until you can explain away the fact that it was going to get a playable character, your argument boils down to "Tinfoil Hat"

Files with Rhythm Heaven labeled and the Chorus Kids in the game, but not the proposal

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I remember that people could find literally only a single thread linking Wii Fit Trainer with Smash before her reveal (using Google's ability to search within a specific timeframe), and it was some empty thread on GameFAQs from shortly after Brawl's release.

The fact that the Gematsu leaked Wii Fit Trainer alone makes it unquestionably real in my eyes, it was just way out there, almost nobody had made that connection, and certainly no fake leaks. That it leaked almost every other newcomer on top of that, plus there's evidence suggesting the ones it leaked that didn't make it were still planned at one point, makes me believe that the only reason anyone would pin it down as a lucky guess is if you're for whatever reason absolutely desperate for it to not have been true. Heck, even the "Pokémon from X/Y" bit adds credibility to it, as Sakurai has confirmed that's what Greninja was initially written down as.

The Gematsu leak was the real deal, no doubt about it, but it was just very very very early information. Vergeben's initial leak was also the real deal, no doubt about that either, but of course that doesn't guarantee any information he's received after that is legitimate.

 

[drag0nscythe]

We don't have the Brawl project proposal, so we don't know which characters were planned from the start.

We do have the Sm4sh project proposal, and on there are characters that had been planned from the beginning, and yet Gematsu never mentioned

But we do know in the brawl days, there were two roster leaks that had completely seperate characters on them and the final roster was predicated by combining them and tossing in ROB.

Planned or not, he had legitimate information.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

The thought of people wanting another FE character is nauseating

Oh, calm down. Go outside and take a deep breath. People can want what they want.

 

[DevaAshera]

It's popular now post awakening, yea, but it's not -that- popular. Realistically, fire emblem should be nowhere near Pokemon in terms of reps, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. I also wouldn't say Fire emblem having too many characters is a meme. That's a very common opinion

Yeah, and until Awakening it only ever had two characters (Marth/Roy in Melee, Marth/Ike in Brawl).
Nintendo themselves called it one of their most popular series now and Fire Emblem Heroes is likely doing better then any of the other Mobile Apps. Its possibly, and even likely, more popular then StarFox, Metroid, and F-Zero (though they still would be nice having more reps, though Krystal was the best for StarFox and Metroid has 4 now)
It may be a popular opinion, but it's still overly annoying to hear non-FE fans complain when it's characters, except Marth, Roy, and Ike, are shown (almost as annoying as the ones that boo Bayonetta). It's still a meme though.
Though I'm still more annoyed by Bayo Booing and, last game, when people claimed the game had too much Kid Icarus representation.

Isn't that the glitched version of the render?

Nope, it's exactly how she's designed. Shame too, personality-wise she's one of the best Blades.

Even adding to this...Roy technically was a clone himself. It took 2 games for Marth and Roy to be differentiated more.

Technically 1 game since Roy wasn't in Brawl.

Yeah okay, but let's also not forget Rex wearing skintight swimwear with his diver armor completely exposing his crotch area.

Not something ratings boards care as much about..its pretty sexist, but boys can wear similar attire, but girls are judged more harshly.

I love that gay men and straight women perving on dude characters is a-okay with Cero and the ESRB, but the moment a straight man or a lesbian pauses the games to perv on a female character?

YOUR RATING IS GOING UP SUCKA!

I really truly don't see the difference in trying to pause to get a shot of a girl's no-nos and pausing to get a shot of a dude's.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah, as a lesbian myself it annoys me and seems incredibly sexist. Judgments based on appearance are always more harsh on girls, even in real life all because it's usually down to 'what would be arousing to the typical male'.

As an example, Shulk & Link in their shorts are seen as more 'comical' by guys while they find Samus in her shorts more 'sexual'.

I'll still always think of E3 2016 where the girls from Nintendo were playing BotW with Link in his shorts sounded thirsty as hell but no one batted an eye because it was girls on guy..now if it had been guys talking about Pyra, they'd likely be scolded or fired for those remarks and there would be an online mob crying 'sexists' at them..

 

[Deleted member]

At this point, why does it matter if Gematsu was legit or not? 11 out of 12 characters are in the game. Who cares?

Unless y'know, you're a Chorus Kid supporter or something.

 

[Noipoi]

I mean, it's not impossible for Verge's claims to be lucky guesses.

But with what he's gotten right so far, he'd have to be really damn lucky.

I trust his claims well enough. And if you do as well, I still wouldn't fully anticipate that every last one of the characters he's mentioned will get in just yet.

This could end up being similar to Gemastu in some regards; the info could end up being partially outdated.

I don't fully believe verge, I just want to.
Incineroar and Isabelle are top of my list after Ashley's untimely demise and he's said both might be in.
It's more that I want to believe, rather than I completely believe.

 

[Bionichute]

THEY'RE PUTTIN CHEMICALS IN THE WATER

MAKIN THE FRICKIN LEAKS REAL

 

[Paperchampion23]

What SE character did Verge supposedly leak?

Nothing, just said he heard that they are adding one in.

Most people assume its Geno, because he is the most likely choice at this point with Sakurai's comments on the character for years now and his popularity.

 

[itsaxelol]

Oh, calm down. Go outside and take a deep breath. People can want what they want.

You mean like saying another FE character would be gross? LOL

Though I'm still more annoyed by Bayo Booing and, last game, when people claimed the game had too much Kid Icarus representation.

Do you think it's a coincidence that every popular criticism bothers you?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Nothing, just said he heard that they are adding one in.

Most people assume its Geno, because he is the most likely choice at this point with Sakurai's comments on the character for years now and his popularity.

Please be a slime riding a chocobo!

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I don't fully believe verge, I just want to.
Incineroar and Isabelle are top of my list after Ashley's untimely demise and he's said both might be in.
It's more that I want to believe, rather than I completely believe.

Incineroar seems fairly likely to be the Pokemon pick this time going off of that info, but even then Verge didn't specify that it would him. He just ruled out a small number of specific other Pokemon.

Tread carefully on that one especially.

 

[MrSmashFour]

"I can't explain it, thus I'm not going to think about it."

What...? are you okay mate? That's an explanation. You honestly think Sakurai would show us pages about details on cut characters, especially considering cut characters are likely to be re-considered for the next game?

 

[Shroob]

What...? are you okay mate? That's an explanation. You honestly think Sakurai would show us pages about details on cut characters, especially considering cut characters are likely to be re-considered for the next game?

So you're acknowledging that Rhythm Heaven was going to get a character at some point in development.


....So what the hell even is your argument then?


Literally now the only thing left in Gematsu that didn't happen was Chorus Kids, and with Chrom now in Smash Ultimate, congrats, Gematsu has 11/12 characters in Smash, with the only one left having irrefutable proof that it was going to happen.


....So what even is your argument?

"Gematsu was wrong!" when it's now 95% right?

 

[Bionichute]

What...? are you okay mate? That's an explanation. You honestly think Sakurai would show us pages about details on cut characters, especially considering cut characters are likely to be re-considered for the next game?

i dont know what this has to do with the current discussion

 

[Will]

The thought of people wanting another FE character is nauseating

Sometimes you gotta add more to justify its existence. You think :ultrobin even got close to showing how much magic is in Fire Emblem? Aside from the lance and axes, the magic is probaby the most versatile thing you could use now.

I do agree it's a bit much for a B-List series. Gacha be damned.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

You mean like saying another FE character would be gross? LOL



Do you think it's a coincidence that every popular criticism bothers you?

If you literally get sick because someone else is hopeful for a character in a video game, that's unhealthy.

 

[Ignoritus]

Palutena and Shulk, as was my original point in how this ties in to Verge, were lucky guesses.

This type of reasoning is the most infuriating thing to me because it's completely fallacious and so incredibly prevalent when discussing leaks.

"Lucky guesses" become a lot less probable when the person leaking them has a reputation to lose.

"Lucky guess" is a very fair argument for 4chan leaker #952 because if they're wrong they lose literally no credibility and disappear into the woods whereas if they're right they can now try and abuse their newfound trust. There are literally hundreds of these leaks. When you are a leaker who has historically gotten things correct you now risk losing that reputation with every guess you make. You have shrunken the pool from which you can draw a leak that gets all "lucky guesses" from hundreds of ****ty 4chan leaks to just a handful of leaks that have preexisting credibility. When you significantly reduce the sample size you significantly reduce the probability of a random event occurring in the sample. One of a dozen of previously correct leakers is significantly less likely to correctly guess a set of characters than 400 random 4chan leakers are.

And yet in spite of that, only a tiny handful of mass produced 4chan leaks ever manage to accurately guess a large number of characters.

 

[Will]

Palutena and Shulk, as was my original point in how this ties in to Verge, were lucky guesses.

yeah okay but explain this one

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

What SE character did Verge supposedly leak?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76928398/907391763

geno apparently

 

[Shadowwolflink]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76928398/907391763

Suposivly geno

I hate to be the grammar police, but you quoted a reply that spelled it correctly. Supposedly.

 

[Drakonix]

All this talk of leaks makes me wonder what the various levels of character support would be if we didn't have all this other mumbo jumbo cluttering our minds.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Celica, Black Knight, and Edelgard as a DLC character. That would bring the FE total to 10, and oh boy would that be a popcorn worthy scene in forums.

Celica and Black Knight would be pretty good echoes of Robin and Ike. Honestly FE just lends itself to echoes pretty well, for better or worse.

I’d love Edelgard just to get a FE character that uses an axe

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I hate to be the grammar police, but you quoted a reply that spelled it correctly. Supposedly.

Not anymore

 

[MasterOfKnees]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76928398/907391763

Suposivly geno

That's not Vergeben saying it's Geno, it's just him saying it's the source "you know about", so probably the Simon one. He's specifically said his source didn't know exactly which character it was.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

That's not Vergeben saying it's Geno, it's just him saying it's the source "you know about", so probably the Simon one. He's specifically said his source didn't know exactly which character it was.

Oh ok thanks for the clarification

It’s the same source as the simon leak

 

[RandomAce]

Oh Jesus Christ y’all gotto calm down, why are we even discussing Gematsu? of all things right now.

——————————
Anyways, in terms of FE, I don’t want another character from it during the base game, if you want to make it feel less, then FE technically only has 5 (ultcorrin since Chrom and Lucina don’t really count. I’m just holding off for a Three Houses Rep, like Byleth would be cool because she can wield an axe, but we need more info on who the protagonist even is and more about Byleth to determine that.

 

[Opossum]

Oh Jesus Christ y’all gotto calm down, why are we even discussing Gematsu? of all things right now.

——————————
Anyways, in terms of FE, I don’t want another character from it during the base game, if you want to make it feel less, then FE technically only has 5 (ultcorrin since Chrom and Lucina don’t really count. I’m just holding off for a Three Houses Rep, like Byleth would be cool because she can wield an axe, but we need more info on who the protagonist even is and more about Byleth to determine that.

You're thinking of Edelgard. Byleth is the blue haired robed sword guy.

 

[KMDP]

Yeah, as a lesbian myself it annoys me and seems incredibly sexist. Judgments based on appearance are always more harsh on girls, even in real life all because it's usually down to 'what would be arousing to the typical male'.

I was wondering why a female user had "Busty Hex Maniac" as their avatar yesterday.

Also, yeah, judgements (especially character ones) based on appearance are incredibly shallow.

 

[DevaAshera]

Do you think it's a coincidence that every popular criticism bothers you?

Booing is not a criticism, it's hating on a character for tier list B.S. that likely will be fixed like how Metaknight was fixed.

Kid Icarus had 3 characters..3 is not a lot..one of which was a costume-clone.

Just because something is popular doesn't make it right. I'm mostly just sick of the constant influx of negativity people have regarding character representation, usually not being a fan of or familiar with the series to begin with. Like I hate Bowser Jr, despise him, I consider him a lazy continuation of the 'Child is Identical to Parent as child' and 'Parent Name Jr.' Tropes that the Koopalings lampshaded since he is a literal copy of Baby Bowser but with a Bandanna on..which Baby Bowser retroactively gained..but I'm glad he's in because I know people are fans of him.

I was wondering why a female user had "Busty Hex Maniac" as their avatar yesterday.

Also, yeah, judgements (especially character ones) based on appearance are incredibly shallow.

Because a shot of Nia's booty in Xenoblade 2 would be a lil too much lol
Major Xenoblade 2 Spoiler

Spoiler

Especially Nia's adorable yet revealing Blade form..

Yes they are.

 

[RandomAce]

You're thinking of Edelgard. Byleth is the blue haired robed sword guy.

I swear I don’t even know who the damn FE characters are anymore. But isn’t Byleth the guy that was walking around the Castle, is he the protagonist?

If that’s the case then we might get our new blue/green haired swordsman... again, unless he can wield multiple weapons as his main ones.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Concept: all the remaining unique newcomers are Zelda ones. ALL of them. Who are them?

Impa(Nagiata and Great Sword)
Vaati
Tingle
Medli(surprise!)
Urabosa
Midna(true form, can become imp)
Skull Kid

I'd be happy with a LOT of Zelda newcomers.