Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Flynn__]

I'm so tired of seeing crazy echo suggestions, like Banjo and Kazooie as Duck Hunt echoes and **** like that

I understand that we don't know the exact rules of echoes but c'mon.

 

[Soulsaint]

If it's actually Neku, I admit I'd be excited. The World End With You is one of the best games I ever played. When that game showed up in KH:DDD I was super excited. And it is releasing on the Switch quite soon, it's super out there as a guest character though. I really doubt many people know him.

Where are the Verg leaks posted btw? What is the hint? And did I miss anything else?

 

[NintenRob]

Neku is in, but he's an echo for newcomer Deku Link.

Making him a Deku Neku

 

[BlueMagician]

The only patterns we have left for echoes is that they're same series and that they're not the same character as the one they're based on. And I'm not too sure the second one will last, considering Dr. Mario would've been an echo.

 

[Flynn__]

I'm certain that the only thing keeping Dr. Mario from being an echo is his status as a Melee veteran. After what we saw with Chrom there's no other explanation.

 

[Zinith]

Is any Echo suggestion more insane than Poochy & Goonie being an Echo of Duck Hunt?

God, I'm still reeling from that

 

[Deleted member]

I think Cross-series Echoes might have more of a chance than people give the idea credit for simply due to the fact the roster is not organized by series. It woupdn't be weird to have, say, Hitmonchan on top of Little Mac, much less have them side-by-side.
I don't think it's likely, but I wouldn't just throw away the possibility.

I'm certain that the only thing keeping Dr. Mario from being an echo is his status as a Melee veteran. After what we saw with Chrom there's no other explanation.

Dr.Mario wouldn't even exist if he wasn't in Melee tbh

 

[Deleted member]

I'm certain that the only thing keeping Dr. Mario from being an echo is his status as a Melee veteran. After what we saw with Chrom there's no other explanation.

That and his new down-air isn't shared with any other Mario character.

 

[UberMadman]

I'm certain that the only thing keeping Dr. Mario from being an echo is his status as a Melee veteran. After what we saw with Chrom there's no other explanation.

All Echoes so far seem to have the exact same mobility stats across the board as the character they are derived from, even Chrom. Doc has drastically different mobility stats from Mario.

 

[Deleted member]

Only reason I want Cross-series Echoes is because of how many Pokemon could work
Hitmonchan as a Little Mac Echo
Blaziken as a Falcon one
Delphox and Minior as Rosalina and Luma(it even has the wand!)

 

[Soulsaint]

In my headcannon, Dr Mario is a villain as well. There is just something about his black alt and down air.

Also if Sora does get in with a stage, Twilight Town would be awesome.

 

[Jetsurge]

I'm certain that the only thing keeping Dr. Mario from being an echo is his status as a Melee veteran. After what we saw with Chrom there's no other explanation.

- Slower
- More powerful
- Up special more power but less height and no coins
- Pills have different properties than fireballs
- Foward air cant spike
- Cape doesn't give you airtime like Mario
- Different down special
- Different down tilt
- No Cappy

Meanwhile Chrom is the same as Roy except for the sword being netruel and the different up special

In my headcannon, Dr Mario is a villain as well. There is just something about his black alt and down air.

Also if Sora does get in with a stage, Twilight Town would be awesome.

I'd rather The World That Never Was

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I was thinking earlier this morning, if the Spirits mode has anything to do with dead warriors, it would be neat if Lenneth from Valkyrie Profile was in the game, since she would fit thematically.

I'm so tired of seeing crazy echo suggestions, like Banjo and Kazooie as Duck Hunt echoes and **** like that

I understand that we don't know the exact rules of echoes but c'mon.

The only one who would remotely make sense as an Echo of Duck Hunt is Mr. Stevenson (since his game is the only one of the Zapper lineup not represented in DH's moveset), and even then his Up+B would need a modification and his normal attacks would almost be completely different.

 

[Zinith]

What's the most insane Echoes you can think of?

 

[Pit93]

Also if Sora does get in with a stage, Twilight Town would be awesome.

YES! Twilight Town would be so awesome!! (and Roxas as an Echo please!! )

My second favorite Stage would be one made after "The World that never was". ^^

 

[dezeray112]

Where are the Verg leaks posted btw? What is the hint? And did I miss anything else?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76928398/907388594

 

[PeridotGX]

Aside from floor ice cream and leaky Vergeburger and fries, I have a question for everyone:

Discounting Inkling and Simon, what if every newcomer got a new stage to be represented by? This includes:

For me:

SR388
Sarasaland
Dinner of Flames
Phaaze
Dragon’s Table
Gangplank Galleon (duh)

: Never played Metroid
:Daisy Cruiser
: Never Played Castlevania
: Plegia (Chapter 9: Emmeryn)
: See Ridley
: Gangplank Galleon

What's the most insane Echoes you can think of?

• Maxwell (Scribblenauts) for Mr. Game and Watch.
• Gardevoir and Minior for Rosalina
• Herdier and Pidove for Duck Hunt
• Holly Blue Agate for ZSS

 

[Cosmic77]

Delphox and Minior as Rosalina and Luma(it even has the wand!)

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid there's only one pairing who would work as a Rosalina and Luma Echo.

Spoiler

It's even someone from Gen 7! Kill two birds with one stone!

 

[Megadoomer]

I attempted to make a reasonable Smash prediction roster, but even that feels like a ridiculous fan wishlist - not sure if that is due to how insane the roster already is, or how difficult it is for me to come up with reasonable predictions.

Dante could be replaced with Ken; both have been rumoured (Ken by Vergeben, coupled with how easy he'd be to make; Dante by someone who accurately leaked a lot of DMCV details), but Dante would be more exciting for me.

Decidueye could be replaced with another Pokemon from the newest generation, like Buzzwole or Incineroar - I haven't closely followed Pokemon in years, but Decidueye seems like he'd stand a good chance of getting in.

I'll put my reasoning in spoiler tags.

Spoiler

UNIQUE CHARACTERS

Skull Kid - his absence makes him conspicuous; he was fairly popular around the time of the Smash Ballot, thanks in part due to the Majora's Mask 3DS remake, and his assist trophy is nowhere to be seen. We got the Moon as an assist trophy and Palkia, a Pokeball summon with a similar effect, but no Skull Kid.

Decidueye - like I said earlier, he could be replaced with another generation 7 Pokemon; I just figure that a new Pokemon seems inevitable.

Elma - according to art books, the designs for Rex and Pyra weren't finalized by the time that Smash 4 started development. While that doesn't rule them out, strictly speaking, it could make them more likely for DLC, and if any character from X is going to get in, it seems like it would be Elma. (Cross is a blank slate, and unlike Robin or Corrin, who can be customized, they don't have a personality of their own)

Bandanna Dee - going by Source Gaming's data on the perception of DLC in Japan, Bandanna Waddle Dee is the most popular character who isn't already in the game by a large margin. He's basically become a mainstay of the Kirby franchise, and he's popular, so I don't see why he wouldn't be considered, at least.

Wonder Red - while the Wonderful 101 didn't do extremely well, it's a Nintendo owned franchise developed by Platinum Games (who already have a character in Smash), and it seems like the sort of quirky franchise that Sakurai would pluck out of obscurity to include in Smash. (see Earthbound, Kid Icarus, Xenoblade...)

Dante - he could be replaced with Ken as a Ryu echo for the sake of this list; it's just that, between the two, the idea of Dante being in Smash Bros. has me more interested. Either way, I could totally see us getting a third Capcom character.

Heihachi - with Bandai-Namco helping with development of this game, I'd be surprised if they didn't get a second character, and why wouldn't they go with (by my understanding) the face of the best-selling fighting game franchise of all time?

Rayman - Ubisoft and Nintendo are closer than ever, and I found it odd that they got permission to use Rayman in Smash 4 and only made him into a trophy.

ECHOES

Isabelle - Villager echo - she's popular (popular enough to make it into Mario Kart along with the Villager), and her assist trophy is conspicuously absent

Octoling - Inkling echo - they're much more recent than other characters, but that's the beauty of echoes - they can be made really quickly, and don't require a great deal of changes from their source material. The Octolings were already popular (I think people were asking for them to be playable in Splatoon 1, and they definitely were for Splatoon 2) and they're functionally identical to Inklings in the Splatoon games, so it seems like all they'd really need to do is make a new model and tweak some aspects of their gameplay slightly.

Shadow - Sonic echo - his assist trophy is seemingly replaced with Knuckles, and of the remaining popular Sonic characters (which seem to be Eggman, Tails, and Shadow), he'd be the easiest to make into a playable character without taking up much time (Tails would be a close second, though)

Looking at my list, I realize it's probably unrealistic (they'd basically have to announce two unique characters and an echo per month if they wanted to announce all of them by the time that the game's released), but despite that, it seems more plausible than my previous lists.

 

[Shroob]

Ya know though, that really was my biggest question answered.

Say what you will about Verg, but I strongly believed, and did so before him, that a Gen7 mon was going to be in Smash, ballot be damned, and when he said one of his sources said Incineroar, I was fine but curious.


"Why would Sakurai drop Ridley and K.Rool early instead of saving one of them for the last reveal? Incineroar is going to be lambasted as a horrible final reveal."


And now that we have Verg saying Square's getting a 2nd character, which may or may not be Geno, that answers that.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I attempted to make a reasonable Smash prediction roster, but even that feels like a ridiculous fan wishlist - not sure if that is due to how insane the roster already is, or how difficult it is for me to come up with reasonable predictions.

Dante could be replaced with Ken; both have been rumoured (Ken by Vergeben, coupled with how easy he'd be to make; Dante by someone who accurately leaked a lot of DMCV details), but Dante would be more exciting for me.

Decidueye could be replaced with another Pokemon from the newest generation, like Buzzwole or Incineroar - I haven't closely followed Pokemon in years, but Decidueye seems like he'd stand a good chance of getting in.

I'll put my reasoning in spoiler tags.

Spoiler

UNIQUE CHARACTERS

Skull Kid - his absence makes him conspicuous; he was fairly popular around the time of the Smash Ballot, thanks in part due to the Majora's Mask 3DS remake, and his assist trophy is nowhere to be seen. We got the Moon as an assist trophy and Palkia, a Pokeball summon with a similar effect, but no Skull Kid.

Decidueye - like I said earlier, he could be replaced with another generation 7 Pokemon; I just figure that a new Pokemon seems inevitable.

Elma - according to art books, the designs for Rex and Pyra weren't finalized by the time that Smash 4 started development. While that doesn't rule them out, strictly speaking, it could make them more likely for DLC, and if any character from X is going to get in, it seems like it would be Elma. (Cross is a blank slate, and unlike Robin or Corrin, who can be customized, they don't have a personality of their own)

Bandanna Dee - going by Source Gaming's data on the perception of DLC in Japan, Bandanna Waddle Dee is the most popular character who isn't already in the game by a large margin. He's basically become a mainstay of the Kirby franchise, and he's popular, so I don't see why he wouldn't be considered, at least.

Wonder Red - while the Wonderful 101 didn't do extremely well, it's a Nintendo owned franchise developed by Platinum Games (who already have a character in Smash), and it seems like the sort of quirky franchise that Sakurai would pluck out of obscurity to include in Smash. (see Earthbound, Kid Icarus, Xenoblade...)

Dante - he could be replaced with Ken as a Ryu echo for the sake of this list; it's just that, between the two, the idea of Dante being in Smash Bros. has me more interested. Either way, I could totally see us getting a third Capcom character.

Heihachi - with Bandai-Namco helping with development of this game, I'd be surprised if they didn't get a second character, and why wouldn't they go with (by my understanding) the face of the best-selling fighting game franchise of all time?

Rayman - Ubisoft and Nintendo are closer than ever, and I found it odd that they got permission to use Rayman in Smash 4 and only made him into a trophy.

ECHOES

Isabelle - Villager echo - she's popular (popular enough to make it into Mario Kart along with the Villager), and her assist trophy is conspicuously absent

Octoling - Inkling echo - they're much more recent than other characters, but that's the beauty of echoes - they can be made really quickly, and don't require a great deal of changes from their source material. The Octolings were already popular (I think people were asking for them to be playable in Splatoon 1, and they definitely were for Splatoon 2) and they're functionally identical to Inklings in the Splatoon games, so it seems like all they'd really need to do is make a new model and tweak some aspects of their gameplay slightly.

Shadow - Sonic echo - his assist trophy is seemingly replaced with Knuckles, and of the remaining popular Sonic characters (which seem to be Eggman, Tails, and Shadow), he'd be the easiest to make into a playable character without taking up much time (Tails would be a close second, though)

Looking at my list, I realize it's probably unrealistic (they'd basically have to announce two unique characters and an echo per month if they wanted to announce all of them by the time that the game's released), but despite that, it seems more plausible than my previous lists.

No Chorus Kids, but we have Elma, Bandana Dee AND Dante. I’ll take it!

 

[Geno Boost]

if the roster is full of echo fighters

characters with no images are:
: Robo Mario and F.L.U.D.D. as a duo with mario sunshine type of moveset
: Classic Link
: Justin Bailey
: Dark Toon Link
: Wii Fit Plus Trainer
: Pauline and Cappy as a duo with mario odyssey type of moveset OR Count Bleck and Tippi as dou with paper mario type of moveset
Morgan
: Malos
: Stork and Poochy as a dou with Yoshi's island type of moveset
: Zack
: Kana
: Jeanne

 

[Sharkarat]

What's the most insane Echoes you can think of?

• Fortnite character as Snake Echo (This one works suprisingly well)
  • Hand Grenade = Grenade, Remote Rocket = Guided Missile, Cyper = Glider and C4 = Remote Explosives.
• King Hippo as K. Rool Echo
• Princess Shroob as Rosalina Echo
• Vespiquen & Combee as Rosalina Echo (cosmic effect replaced by BEEEEEES)

 

[Cosmic77]

Ya know though, that really was my biggest question answered.

Say what you will about Verg, but I strongly believed, and did so before him, that a Gen7 mon was going to be in Smash, ballot be damned, and when he said one of his sources said Incineroar, I was fine but curious.


"Why would Sakurai drop Ridley and K.Rool early instead of saving one of them for the last reveal? Incineroar is going to be lambasted as a horrible final reveal."


And now that we have Verg saying Square's getting a 2nd character, which may or may not be Geno, that answers that.

To be fair, most of Smash's final reveals (excluding hidden characters) haven't exactly been huge. I doubt many people jumped for joy when their prayers were finally answered and long-time favorites, Olimar and Shulk, were revealed as the final newcomers.

From a marketing standpoint, it just makes sense to show the best before the rest. Get people pumped up for the game early on when the interest is at its peak instead of throwing out some pretty "meh" characters for your first impression. Ultimate has been doing a lot of things differently, but I wouldn't be surprised if the final character isn't someone who's widely popular.

 

[Shroob]

To be fair, most of Smash's final reveals (excluding hidden characters) haven't exactly been huge. I doubt many people jumped for joy when their prayers were finally answered and long-time favorites, Olimar and Shulk, were revealed as the final newcomers.

From a marketing standpoint, it just makes sense to show the best before the rest. Get people pumped up for the game early on when the interest is at its peak instead of throwing out some pretty "meh" characters for your first impression. Ultimate has been doing a lot of things differently, but I wouldn't be surprised if the final character isn't someone who's widely popular.

Yeah, but if this game really is pulling from the ballot, it would just feel really odd that the last 'new' character wasn't a ballot pick.

....and let's be real. Looking back, just Ridley and K.Rool by themselves kind of eclipse most of Smash4's reveals barring Megaman and Pac Man, to me at least.

 

[NintenRob]

I attempted to make a reasonable Smash prediction roster, but even that feels like a ridiculous fan wishlist - not sure if that is due to how insane the roster already is, or how difficult it is for me to come up with reasonable predictions.

Dante could be replaced with Ken; both have been rumoured (Ken by Vergeben, coupled with how easy he'd be to make; Dante by someone who accurately leaked a lot of DMCV details), but Dante would be more exciting for me.

Decidueye could be replaced with another Pokemon from the newest generation, like Buzzwole or Incineroar - I haven't closely followed Pokemon in years, but Decidueye seems like he'd stand a good chance of getting in.

I'll put my reasoning in spoiler tags.

Spoiler

UNIQUE CHARACTERS

Skull Kid - his absence makes him conspicuous; he was fairly popular around the time of the Smash Ballot, thanks in part due to the Majora's Mask 3DS remake, and his assist trophy is nowhere to be seen. We got the Moon as an assist trophy and Palkia, a Pokeball summon with a similar effect, but no Skull Kid.

Decidueye - like I said earlier, he could be replaced with another generation 7 Pokemon; I just figure that a new Pokemon seems inevitable.

Elma - according to art books, the designs for Rex and Pyra weren't finalized by the time that Smash 4 started development. While that doesn't rule them out, strictly speaking, it could make them more likely for DLC, and if any character from X is going to get in, it seems like it would be Elma. (Cross is a blank slate, and unlike Robin or Corrin, who can be customized, they don't have a personality of their own)

Bandanna Dee - going by Source Gaming's data on the perception of DLC in Japan, Bandanna Waddle Dee is the most popular character who isn't already in the game by a large margin. He's basically become a mainstay of the Kirby franchise, and he's popular, so I don't see why he wouldn't be considered, at least.

Wonder Red - while the Wonderful 101 didn't do extremely well, it's a Nintendo owned franchise developed by Platinum Games (who already have a character in Smash), and it seems like the sort of quirky franchise that Sakurai would pluck out of obscurity to include in Smash. (see Earthbound, Kid Icarus, Xenoblade...)

Dante - he could be replaced with Ken as a Ryu echo for the sake of this list; it's just that, between the two, the idea of Dante being in Smash Bros. has me more interested. Either way, I could totally see us getting a third Capcom character.

Heihachi - with Bandai-Namco helping with development of this game, I'd be surprised if they didn't get a second character, and why wouldn't they go with (by my understanding) the face of the best-selling fighting game franchise of all time?

Rayman - Ubisoft and Nintendo are closer than ever, and I found it odd that they got permission to use Rayman in Smash 4 and only made him into a trophy.

ECHOES

Isabelle - Villager echo - she's popular (popular enough to make it into Mario Kart along with the Villager), and her assist trophy is conspicuously absent

Octoling - Inkling echo - they're much more recent than other characters, but that's the beauty of echoes - they can be made really quickly, and don't require a great deal of changes from their source material. The Octolings were already popular (I think people were asking for them to be playable in Splatoon 1, and they definitely were for Splatoon 2) and they're functionally identical to Inklings in the Splatoon games, so it seems like all they'd really need to do is make a new model and tweak some aspects of their gameplay slightly.

Shadow - Sonic echo - his assist trophy is seemingly replaced with Knuckles, and of the remaining popular Sonic characters (which seem to be Eggman, Tails, and Shadow), he'd be the easiest to make into a playable character without taking up much time (Tails would be a close second, though)

Looking at my list, I realize it's probably unrealistic (they'd basically have to announce two unique characters and an echo per month if they wanted to announce all of them by the time that the game's released), but despite that, it seems more plausible than my previous lists.

Not bad, I personally don't think a lot of it is going to happen, but it seems more reasonable than a lot of other stuff posted around here, I do think a Ken echo is very likely though, especially with jump in music Street Fighter got.

Plus, I can't be too mad at anything with Skull Kid and Bandana Dee

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Saw this coming since they put Wii U/3DS as E10+. They didn't have that rating yet in Melee/Brawl so Teen made sense

Actually, E10+ existed before Brawl. Last I've checked, some of the reasons why Brawl got the Teen rating included crude humor, such as from Wario's Wario Waft, and the female underwear exposure dilemma that Peach still had.

 

[Deleted member]

I doubt many people jumped for joy when their prayers were finally answered and long-time favorite, Shulk, [was] revealed as the final newcomer.

I would've been if the ESRB hadn't gone ahead and confirmed him a few days prior to his official reveal.

But I'm also a guy who wants Tingle in over any other Zelda character, so I'm not most people.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, E10+ existed before Brawl. Last I've checked, some of the reasons why Brawl got the Teen rating included crude humor, such as from Wario's Wario Waft, and the female underwear exposure dilemma that Peach still had.

Indeed. Those are like the only two valid reasons out there.
I think that Smash Ultimate will be E10+ just like Smash 4.

 

[Jetsurge]

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid there's only one pairing who would work as a Rosalina and Luma Echo.

Spoiler

It's even someone from Gen 7! Kill two birds with one stone!

You're wrong this is the only Rosalina echo which would work

 

[Untouch]

The problem with a DQ rep is that, outside of characters like slime (which would be funny but I don't see how it'd work), there really isn't an equivalent to Cloud in popularity within the series. The DQ8 is the only one who I think comes close, maybe except Erdrick.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid there's only one pairing who would work as a Rosalina and Luma Echo.

Spoiler

It's even someone from Gen 7! Kill two birds with one stone!

I would definitely take this. I am not sure if she is likely, but I like it.

You're wrong this is the only Rosalina echo which would work
View attachment 159317

No.

 

[Pit93]

....and let's be real. Looking back, just Ridley and K.Rool by themselves kind of eclipse most of Smash4's reveals barring Megaman and Pac Man, to me at least.

That's the thing about subjective stuff like this. Megaman and Pac Man for example were pretty "meh" reveals for me. Cool and deserved for sure but the ones that made me jump up from joy in Sm4sh were Palutena and Shulk (and to a certain degree Rosalina). Including DLCs I also screamed when Mewtwo, Bayonetta and Corrin were revealed. ^^

 

[Deleted member]

You're wrong this is the only Rosalina echo which would work
View attachment 159317

If they put in Fairy Godmother before Shrek...

 

[Deleted member]

The reveal that got me the most hype was King K. Rool's reveal.
I was sadly not there for the Ridley scene, so that is why.

Also did King K. Rool tear down Dixie Kong's chances a bit or not?

 

[Sharkarat]

You're wrong this is the only Rosalina echo which would work
View attachment 159317

Nah, Would rather have this

Spoiler

 

[SebasSancy]

They're playing smash for Wii U on the Nintendo RedCube at Gamescom. That's odd

https://youtu.be/4L_xhkK5kfY

 

[Jetsurge]

The reveal that got me the most hype was King K. Rool's reveal.
I was sadly not there for the Ridley scene, so that is why.

Also did King K. Rool tear down Dixie Kong's chances a bit or not?

Chrom increased Dixie's chances with his different up special.

 

[Deleted member]

They're playing smash for Wii U on the Nintendo RedCube at Gamescom. That's odd

https://youtu.be/4L_xhkK5kfY

Why? Smash Bros. Wii U is awesome.
Plus, I am sure they did not want to ask Nintendo for a copy of Smash Bros. Ultimate.

 

[SebasSancy]

Why? Smash Bros. Wii U is awesome.
Plus, I am sure they did not want to ask Nintendo for a copy of Smash Bros. Ultimate.

I didn't say it wasn't awesome, I just thought they will show Ultimate because it's started with a Smash Ultimate presentation. Maybe it's because I don't understand what they're saying