Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Luigi The President]

I'm personally indifferent toward Skull Kid (I honestly think he'd be better as a boss), but he's got quite a bit of popularity overall.

He does. But only recently, very recently. In the Ballot? Nothing. He doesn't even make the top 25 in SSB4Dojo's compilation of 44K+ Ballot votes.
That's why I'm willing to rule Skull Kid out more than most, because his popularity only recently resurged due to the Moon AT. I'd love to see him in, Majora's Mask is one of my favorite Zeldas. But he very well may be a boss.

 

[BlueMagician]

Powerstone. Old and dead...but...Powerstone

Powerstone's great, but it was basically all Capcom. Sega only made sure it ran on their hardware.

 

[Idon]

Konami is probably just happy for free exposure. Simon AND Richter? Sure. All the memorable bosses in a stage? Why not? Alucard as an assist? Okie dokie. 34 music tracks? We don't care. Go for it.

all this exposure will surely make people buy our games

Well, that's only if Konami makes Castlevania games like they used to instead of falling hard on this Lord of Shadow bull**** they've been pushing.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

There was a conversation about SEGA games that arent Sonic and not a single one of you brought up the single best SEGA game, CRAAAAAAAAAZY TAXI?

For shame. All of you go to your rooms and get a class S liscence.

Monkey Ball is cool too.

 

[Cosmic77]

Dunno if you guys are talking about it, but have you read the new Sourcegaming interview with Sakurai in Famitsu?

He literally states he's been looking at the ballot as his primary source for picks this time around. I mean, it was already pretty obvious, but this should quell all the people who stick to patterns saying we're getting "another Pokemon from Gen 7, because we always get new Pokemon," or a retro pick, or a new FE, character, or any character that came out after the ballot happened (Rex/Pyra, Springman, etc...). So, as I've said multiple times before, I think the most confident picks are characters who got a lot of votes in the ballot.

-Banjo
-Isaac
-Bandana Dee
-Paper Mario
-Geno
-Skull Kid
-Shadow

Shadow is clearly gonna be an echo at this point. Meaning that out of the remaining 6, we'll very likely be seeing most of them get in. And then there's the DLC to factor in, which isn't planned but will possibly see more characters from the ballots (the ones that didn't make the base roster).

Ironically, assuming every newcomer will be from the ballot is following a pattern too.

Regardless, this doesn't automatically mean the chances of a new Gen 7 Pokemon or a retro pick are now roadkill. Popular characters are typically shown off first, so it shouldn't come as a huge shock that we're seeing Inkling, Ridley, and K. Rool so early. Maybe I'll eat my words later on, but for now, nothing has really changed for me after reading Sakurai's comment. He's still as unpredictable as ever, and I wouldn't be surprised if he throws in one or two characters who deviate from this new "must be popular in the ballot" rule we've created.

 

[Luigi The President]

There was a conversation about SEGA games that arent Sonic and not a single one of you brought up the single best SEGA game, CRAAAAAAAAAZY TAXI?

For shame. All of you go to your rooms and get a class S liscence.

Monkey Ball is cool too.

AND COMIN' IN AT NUMBER 34
ITS CRAAAAZY TAXI

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm not expecting it, like at all, but I voted for Shantae during the ballot and if she got in I would lose it.
I was more into her in 2015 than now, but i'd still be ridiculously hype. It'd be like the me from 2015 finally got what he wanted.

It would be something. I can't remember if it was me or my brother who voted for her but vote we did.

I'm still of the mind that we've seen all the multiplayer stages, which does limit the remaining characters if we want them to being a stage too.

 

[StormC]

I'm maintaining my belief that the only character at this point not from the ballot, or popular in general, that has a decent chance is a gen 7 Pokemon.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I actually like Tails as a pick better than what most people are usually on about. He's way more iconic than basically any first party not already in the game, with Sonic already in his rights negotiations would be easy, his moveset pretty much writes itself with him being just about the most natural fit possible, and he doesn't really demand anything extra be put in the game on his behalf since he can just share things like Sonic's stages and music (I guess you'd probably put his theme song from Sonic Adventure in, that's about it...). No individual character is super likely I suppose, but Tails is a strong enough pick that it's really surprising to me that we don't see his name come up more in all the fake leaks we spend so much time discussing.

I think that has to do with the "third party franchises can only have one rep each" fanrule only recently being broken by Richter AND the Echo Fighter branding making everyone think Shadow is more likely.

 

[Noipoi]

Konami is probably just happy for free exposure. Simon AND Richter? Sure. All the memorable bosses in a stage? Why not? Alucard as an assist? Okie dokie. 34 music tracks? We don't care. Go for it.

all this exposure will surely make people buy our games pachinko machines

Fixed that for you

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Skull Kid also has MM3D falling around the 2015 benchmark, so ballot alone might not matter for getting him in. That's something many characters don't have among the Zelda franchise.

But who knows what'll happen.

 

[BlueMagician]

There was a conversation about SEGA games that arent Sonic and not a single one of you brought up the single best SEGA game, CRAAAAAAAAAZY TAXI?

For shame. All of you go to your rooms and get a class S liscence.

Monkey Ball is cool too.

I thought Crazy Taxi and moved from it because I was thinking of what could be in Smash. And Kapp'n sort of does what I imagined they would do, anyway.

 

[Will]

Give me Banjo or give me death.

Sure thing.

Spoiler

 

[StormC]

Skull Kid also has MM3D falling around the 2015 benchmark, so ballot alone might not matter for getting him in. That's something many characters don't have among the Zelda franchise.

But who knows what'll happen.

Do we have any real reason to speculate Skull Kid is getting in besides a very shaky "leaker" and wild speculation?

The moon AT is either good news or bad news depending on how you want to look at it.

 

[P.Kat]

IMO, Tails has just as good a chance as any Sonic character. It ultimately comes down to what Nintendo, Sakurai, and SEGA want in that regard, so there's not really a definitive "This is the Sonic character that will be in!" if we do get another one. A lot of people, myself included, are mainly latching on to Shadow because of the idea he could be an easy Echo of Sonic. To be honest, though, so could Tails, as all that would need to be different for him is a different Up B and Chrom proved that Echos can deviate from their original moveset.

Me personally, I'm just taking the leap of faith, and hoping for Blaze the Cat, it's a possibility. Shadow, and Tails are definitely possible too though.

 

[Noipoi]

I'm maintaining my belief that the only character at this point not from the ballot, or popular in general, that has a decent chance is a gen 7 Pokemon.

I agree, but even a new Pokemon (arguably one of the safest picks you could predict for a Smash game) isn't as likely as before.
What a time to be alive.

 

[Majora's Visage]

He does. But only recently, very recently. In the Ballot? Nothing. He doesn't even make the top 25 in SSB4Dojo's compilation of 44K+ Ballot votes.
That's why I'm willing to rule Skull Kid out more than most, because his popularity only recently resurged due to the Moon AT. I'd love to see him in, Majora's Mask is one of my favorite Zeldas. But he very well may be a boss.

Could be because he was already selected as an assist trophy? :/

 

[SebasSancy]

He does. But only recently, very recently. In the Ballot? Nothing. He doesn't even make the top 25 in SSB4Dojo's compilation of 44K+ Ballot votes.
That's why I'm willing to rule Skull Kid out more than most, because his popularity only recently resurged due to the Moon AT. I'd love to see him in, Majora's Mask is one of my favorite Zeldas. But he very well may be a boss.

I blame the hype post-leaks xD

 

[Nethermoosen]

Uhhhh

That’s Capcom tho

Also I know she’s deconfirmed but how high did Fiora score on the ballot? I wanna know to see if it corroborates my theory. Likewise how high did Kumatora, Paula, Bass and Proto Man score?

And while I’m at it, Captain Toad too? The doc doesn’t display well on mobile which is why I ask

Oh piss. You’re right.

 

[StormC]

Could be because he was already selected as an assist trophy? :/

The ballot really screwed over characters with an active role in Smash 4... except I guess. It's unfortunate and a consequence of all the smoke and mirrors regarding the ballot and its true intentions.

Hopefully Sakurai takes into consideration weakened ballot support due to those types of roles.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Sure thing.

Spoiler

View attachment 159229

I am distressed.

 

[SebasSancy]

Could be because he was already selected as an assist trophy? :/

Waluigi was #16 and he was an AT

 

[Luigi The President]

Could be because he was already selected as an assist trophy? :/

That's not the point I'm making. OP stated they felt Skull Kid was a popular choice based off the Ballot. I disagreed. That's all I'm trying to get at. Valid and true point here (that he was an AT).

 

[blazefan519]

Uhhhh

That’s Capcom tho

Also I know she’s deconfirmed but how high did Fiora score on the ballot? I wanna know to see if it corroborates my theory. Likewise how high did Kumatora, Paula, Bass and Proto Man score?

And while I’m at it, Captain Toad too? The doc doesn’t display well on mobile which is why I ask

Going off the merged poll, none of them placed in the top 60 except Captain Toad who placed 21st.

 

[Will]

I am distressed.

This was the intention.

 

[Sigran101]

I know I shouldnt get hyped but Ive wanted medusa since 2012.
She fits perfectly as an echo and Viridi has been deconfirmed
Also her VA has been doing what shulks VA did and is liking tweets asking about her voicing in smash but she hasnt said a word about it
Im going to keep my hopes up since this is the most likely my goth mom has ever been
Especially since weve been getting more villains, and shes a girl villain and the last big NES villain missing
Im going to hope
Ashley crushed me sure but Medusa trumps ashley in terms of my hopes and dreams

She would require barely any work to add. since in game during her boss fight she uses warp, auto reticle, explosive flames, etc

I have no desire to see Medusa, but now that you mention it this might be a character people are really sleeping on. I didn't remember what she did in kid Icarus uprising but perhaps there is a reason those were the moves they chose to keep for palutena. What would she use as replacements for the wings and staff? If there's a great fit there then I think this is actually very likely.

 

[DarkFalcon]

The ballot really screwed over characters with an active role in Smash 4... except I guess. It's unfortunate and a consequence of all the smoke and mirrors regarding the ballot and its true intentions.

Hopefully Sakurai takes into consideration weakened ballot support due to those types of roles.

Hello hello, made it.

 

[Deleted member]

Ironically, assuming every newcomer will be from the ballot is following a pattern too.

Regardless, this doesn't automatically mean the chances of a new Gen 7 Pokemon or a retro pick are now roadkill. Popular characters are typically shown off first, so it shouldn't come as a huge shock that we're seeing Inkling, Ridley, and K. Rool so early. Maybe I'll eat my words later on, but for now, nothing has really changed for me after reading Sakurai's comment. He's still as unpredictable as ever, and I wouldn't be surprised if he throws in one or two characters who deviate from this new "must be popular in the ballot" rule we've created.

It'd be a pattern in the sense of noticing that all picks so far have been very popular in the ballot, even the Inkling (except Richter I guess - but he just seems to be in cause Sakurai and Co. wanted him and he was easy to add). But in all truth, it's not so much as pattern thinking as it is a literal statement by the director. "I'm using the ballot to decide the roster."

 

[StormC]

Hello hello, made it.

Echoes probably didn't have to place super high to get considered. I'm sure top 50 would be enough. Same with

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler

View attachment 159229

*When the Minecraft kid wins PVP*

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Do we have any real reason to speculate Skull Kid is getting in besides a very shaky "leaker" and wild speculation?

The moon AT is either good news or bad news depending on how you want to look at it.

No, we really don't have any good reason he'd be in at all. Sure, he's popular, but the ballot? He was still an AT. He's mostly coming up because of the leaker, not because of his own popularity for his own merits. All I was saying was MM3D's timing at least could help bring recognition to the character and could be a reason why. Ironically it doesn't help Tingle, but then again, it'd be the WW design that would be in due to the MM one being part of a stage(and I doubt it either way, as the WW and MM designs are severely similar. It's about as similar as Ness and Ninten, honestly).

Anyway, there's just a lot of options, and I think the ballot has a better chance of getting a Zelda character. I think Impa might be the most voted now. She's a very popular choice in general, and it's simply a matter of finding the right design to use(SS or OOT if an Echo, HW or Oracle if not).

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Skull Kid also has MM3D falling around the 2015 benchmark, so ballot alone might not matter for getting him in. That's something many characters don't have among the Zelda franchise.

But who knows what'll happen.

I wonder if Ballot Support by Franchise will be a thing as well...?

Remember that Sakurai said that he got a lot of requests from Final Fantasy, so he put in Cluod basically as a rep of the whole franchise? People probably were requesting loads of various Zelda characters (especially with Hyrule Warriors having recently released) since the series hasn't gotten a unique newcomer since Melee, but Zelda really doesn't have a good "next obvious choice" like other franchises, and may also have suffered since a lot of the favored one-offs ended up as assists.

Skull Kid could be a ballot choice insofar as 'people wanted a Zelda rep and MM3D was perfectly timed...'

 

[DarkFalcon]

Echoes probably didn't have to place super high to get considered. I'm sure top 50 would be enough. Same with

They at least had enough popularity to be added as echoes. Just not as full fledged unique newcomers. It's why I think Shadow is up next.

 

[StormC]

I actually am pretty shocked Sakurai outright named the ballot. I figured he would just say "King K. Rool was a very popular request among fans."

Guess it's too much to ask that he explains what he meant by saying Bayonetta was the #1 "realizable" character though.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

all got in Ultimate...alrighty

Issac, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, Magolor, Dixie Kong, Banjo Kazooie, Shantae, Geno, Rayman, and Sora all in the top 10 highly requested characters who haven’t been shown off in Smash yet...Viridi and Shadow are still on my highly requested list

I actually am pretty shocked Sakurai outright named the ballot. I figured he would just say "King K. Rool was a very popular request among fans."

Guess it's too much to ask that he explains what he said when Bayonetta was the #1 "realizable" character though.

more bad girls and an excuse for more Kid Icarus dialogue

They at least had enough popularity to be added as echoes. Just not as full fledged unique newcomers. It's why I think Shadow is up next.

Shadow revealed in October...makes some sense

 

[KMDP]

My work on this from 3 years ago is a combination of 14 US polls and the one set of data Sourcegaming gathered on Japan in 2015 during the ballot. With 45,000 votes, it should give a basic idea of where things stand. Of course it isn't perfect but it tries to get information from various communities of smash that each had their own wants.

Looks like your work from 3 years ago is paying off dividends, huh?

 

[Nethermoosen]

I actually am pretty shocked Sakurai outright named the ballot. I figured he would just say "King K. Rool was a very popular request among fans."

Guess it's too much to ask that he explains what he meant by saying Bayonetta was the #1 "realizable" character though.

Ooooooh? Link? I would like to see this. Was it the famitsu column?

 

[SSB4Dojo]

Looks like your work from 3 years ago is paying off dividends, huh?

Yeah, when everyone steals my work and attempts to take credit for it. Like the big pie chart of characters that aren't in the game right now with Isaac 1 is based on my data but no mention.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I wonder if Ballot Support by Franchise will be a thing as well...?

Remember that Sakurai said that he got a lot of requests from Final Fantasy, so he put in Cluod basically as a rep of the whole franchise? People probably were requesting loads of various Zelda characters (especially with Hyrule Warriors having recently released) since the series hasn't gotten a unique newcomer since Melee, but Zelda really doesn't have a good "next obvious choice" like other franchises, and may also have suffered since a lot of the favored one-offs ended up as assists.

Skull Kid could be a ballot choice insofar as 'people wanted a Zelda rep and MM3D was perfectly timed...'

That's a good point. With how much clamoring there is for a new Zelda character outside of the main trio(as well as more just in general), some generic votes are possible. Though I wouldn't expect it too much, since the ballot did ask for a specific character, not just franchise.

In a twist, Smash isn't that much unlike the regular Zelda games. You generally play as Link with once in a while temporarily playing as another character through some odd method. Funny how Smash has 3 Links now, but only 1 Ganon, and 2 Zeldas. Zelda was playable once in a regular game proper(ignoring the CD-i games), and only through a technical method(as the DS Spirit Tracks didn't have you outright move her around, just lead her places at best. But more importantly, you played as the Phantom Armor more than herself. It's not really different from how in WW and MM, you could temporarily control other characters. And in multiplayer Zelda games, you just get more... Links. I'm honestly surprised we can't play as regular Zelda in her own campaign of a regular Zelda game or something like that. Even a shorter one, like the stories in Sonic Adventure 1, would be amazing).

 

[Deleted member]

Guess it's too much to ask that he explains what he meant by saying Bayonetta was the #1 "realizable" character though.

I took it to mean "Nintendo and Platinum are very chummy right now and Smash Bros. fighters are one heck of an advertisement".