Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DarkFalcon]

But he has a character slot, and that's really what matters most. They're willing to give over their most iconic character with two entirely different outfits, and a stage devoted to their most iconic game, alongside two music tracks (two, but music tracks nonetheless). They are also willing to allow him to return in Ultimate. (sorry about how subjective FF7's iconic status must be, just my opinion here).

I think they wouldn't mind handing over a relatively obscure character from a game they worked on alongside Nintendo, and let that be that, since he doesn't really need anything else. But I could totally be wrong. Good on you for staying cautious, my friend (seriously)!

Yea. Being playable at all even with next to nothing compared to others in the cast is better than not being in. I just pointed that out because it strengthens my idea of SE being really selective. I don't even particularly care for Geno, as I haven't played a ton of SMRPG (I've played a bit on SNES classic), but my brain is holding on to the idea of SE not being too cooperative. It's the only reason why I see Geno as not being in yet.

 

[Idon]

Exactly, it was good marketing and complete luck that greninja wound up as popular as he was, but he would have been in smash regardless.

When you focus the entire arc of an anime around said pokemon, give that pokemon a unique mechanic, and use it as promotional material for your next genearation of games...

I'm starting to think maybe they intended for it to happen the same way they intended Lucario to be uber popular.

 

[Mutsukki]

Sooooo... Dunno if I'm late, but just read that Sakurai said Smash's Ultimate music takes 1/4 of the space it did in Wii U. I know we saw some songs with 3min+ on the music part of the direct, but maybe we'll get non-cut versions of DK Rap and other stuff now???

 

[Luigi The President]

Yea. Being playable at all even with next to nothing compared to others in the cast is better than not being in. I just pointed that out because it strengthens my idea of SE being really selective. I don't even particularly care for Geno, as I haven't played a ton of SMRPG (I've played a bit on SNES classic), but my brain is holding on the the idea of SE not being too cooperative. It's the only reason why I see Geno as not being in yet.

Understandable!

 

[Nethermoosen]

There's this hella cool remix of The Meaning of Truth (aka falcon punch song) and now I really want it in the game now. If gacha can get it, I'm gonna gamble for the anime of it to get it.

I meant possibility, my brain's just flickering on and off because it's late.

Alrighty. Well, I must respectfully disagree. I don’t see how his possibility could be considered low without speaking directly to someone who is in the know. I mean, my money is on his exclusion, but I don’t have the brain power to process him being highly unlikely, I guess.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to expect him, because that’s bogus. We have no real indication of any such thing. But that’s along the lines of hints and confirmations. Not possibility.

 

[Will]

Smash's Ultimate music takes 1/4 of the space it did in Wii U.

Is that a lot?
Cause I'm gonna be honest that doesn't sound like a lot.

 

[KMDP]

There's this hella cool remix of The Meaning of Truth (aka falcon punch song) and now I really want it in the game now. If gacha can get it, I'm gonna gamble for the anime of it to get it.

I meant possibility, my brain's just flickering on and off because it's late.

The Meaning of Truth was one of the custom driving songs I had in Gran Turismo 5.

Along with Crush 40 songs (from their Album of the same name), Daytona USA themes and certain Initial D themes.

...I also had "Left Bank Two", for something unfitting.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Sooooo... Dunno if I'm late, but just read that Sakurai said Smash's Ultimate music takes 1/4 of the space it did in Wii U. I know we saw some songs with 3min+ on the music part of the direct, but maybe we'll get non-cut versions of DK Rap and other stuff now???

I don't recall seeing this before. Source?

 

[Mutsukki]

Is that a lot?
Cause I'm gonna be honest that doesn't sound like a lot.

I mean, 1/4 is... 1/4. It's half of half. I'd say that's a whole lot.

I don't recall seeing this before. Source?

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...its-stage-development-music-compression-more/

Though it's just the main points.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Is that a lot?
Cause I'm gonna be honest that doesn't sound like a lot.

I’m guessing the takeaway here is that there is much more room leftover after including music when compared to the Wii U.

 

[Will]

Alrighty. Well, I must respectfully disagree. I don’t see how his possibility could be considered low without speaking directly to someone who is in the know. I mean, my money is on his exclusion, but I don’t have the brain power to process him being highly unlikely, I guess.

I’m not trying to convince anyone to expect him, because that’s bogus. We have no real indication of any such thing. But that’s along the lines of hints and confirmations. Not possibility.

I think the key thing to Banjo's inclusion here is the big question: Will he get in over Steve? Forget the polls for a second, because we have several things to take in here:

1. Banjo's popularity is mostly in the Western hemisphere. Japan is not that familiar with Banjo.
2. Minecraft is popular all over the globe, even if it had hits its highest peak long ago. It is still selling like hotcakes. Japan is no different.
3. Minecraft is the sole series that had Nintendo and Microsoft make a budding relationship.
4. Banjo must have had such a large significance in the West that his ballot votes outdo the number of people voting for Minecraft-related material, because it is definitely possible and it has definitely happened to an unknown extent.

You could even argue that Steve himself is a gaming icon, as Minecraft is one of if not the biggest game of the 2010s and is influential across the world for the sanbox genre. Banjo isn't really considered an icon of sorts and is perceived more as a nostalgia treasure trove platformer character with previous relations to Nintendo in the late 90s.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but I at least want to see if you can see it from this perspective.

I mean, 1/4 is... 1/4. It's half of half. I'd say that's a whole lot.

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...its-stage-development-music-compression-more/

Though it's just the main points.

That's not what I meant. Smash 4 was 2 Gigs right? 500 MB of music equates to what?

 

[DarkFalcon]

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...its-stage-development-music-compression-more/

Though it's just the main points.

"Compression technology is better, so while the sound quality is the same, the music takes up 1/4 the space it did in the previous title"

Wow it answered the one thing I was questioning, which was compression making sound quality worse. Thanks Sakurai.

 

[Zinith]

I know what custom music I'd put in the game...

Spoiler

Gojira

I'm not joking

 

[Noipoi]

Random question.
In Smash 4 the Mii Fighters victory theme was a short remix of Smash 4's main theme.
Do you think it'll be changed to a short remix of Ultimate's theme, or will it stay the same?
It'd probably just stay the same, but changing it to Ultimate's theme sounds like one of those little things Sakurai would do.

 

[Idon]

Random question.
In Smash 4 the Mii Fighters victory theme was a short remix of Smash 4's main theme.
Do you think it'll be changed to a short remix of Ultimate's theme, or will it stay the same?
It'd probably just stay the same, but changing it to Ultimate's theme sounds like one of those little things Sakurai would do.

I'm personally hoping that it's the wii shop channel music.

 

[Will]

Random question.
In Smash 4 the Mii Fighters victory theme was a short remix of Smash 4's main theme.
Do you think it'll be changed to a short remix of Ultimate's theme, or will it stay the same?
It'd probably just stay the same, but changing it to Ultimate's theme sounds like one of those little things Sakurai would do.

Just give them the first riff of the Wii Sports theme and call it a day.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

When you focus the entire arc of an anime around said pokemon, give that pokemon a unique mechanic, and use it as promotional material for your next genearation of games...

I'm starting to think maybe they intended for it to happen the same way they intended Lucario to be uber popular.

Definitely true, marketing can make or break a pokemon but it doesn't always work, look at poor zoroark over there. You can push it all you want but if people don't click with it they don't click with it

 

[BlueMagician]

The thing about Greninja and such is that they probably researched in advance who would be popular. I think they only showed Sakurai the Pokemon who they were confident in.

 

[lizard1929]

I mean, 1/4 is... 1/4. It's half of half. I'd say that's a whole lot.

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...its-stage-development-music-compression-more/

Though it's just the main points.

The development team size from your source is impressive.
A 100 man team for Nintendo's big game that is really impressive when compared to other AAA games.

 

[Zinith]

Definitely true, marketing can make or break a pokemon but it doesn't always work, look at poor zoroark over there. You can push it all you want but if people don't click with it they don't click with it

Oh Zoroark is popular...

Just in different.... circles

 

[Mutsukki]

That's not what I meant. Smash 4 was 2 Gigs right? 500 MB of music equates to what?

More songs being added while less space is being used. Pretty much being able to put a lot of the songs in their full size without compromising storage space. Probably why they were able to fit 900+ songs in this already massive game. Probably more space size for things like... cutscenes maybe. People were worried that the file download size was too similar to Smash 4, now this explains a whole lot.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I think the key thing to Banjo's inclusion here is the big question: Will he get in over Steve? Forget the polls for a second, because we have several things to take in here:

1. Banjo's popularity is mostly in the Western hemisphere. Japan is not that familiar with Banjo.
2. Minecraft is popular all over the globe, even if it had hits its highest peak long ago. It is still selling like hotcakes.
3. Minecraft is the sole series that had Nintendo and Microsoft make a budding relationship.
4. Banjo must have had such a large significance in the West that his ballot votes outdo the number of people voting for Minecraft-related material, because it is definitely possible and it has definitely happened to an unknown extent.

You could even argue that Steve himself is a gaming icon, as Minecraft is one of if not the biggest game of the 2010s and is influential across the world for the sanbox genre. Banjo isn't really considered an icon of sorts and is perceived more as a nostalgia treasure trove platformer character with previous relations to Nintendo in the late 90s.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but I at least want to see if you can see it from this perspective.


That's not what I meant. Smash 4 was 2 Gigs right? 500 MB of music equates to what?

I definitely see your point and I’m glad your reasoning is sound.

I never considered Steve as a ballot option or thought others would want him in Smash as a playable character, even if he is more popular. I also wouldn’t have thought Sakurai would prefer to include him over Banjo if it came down to it. But, if he really is going off the ballot and Steve really did beat out Banjo, then I cannot argue your point. Touché.

 

[MetroLSD]

Sooooo... Dunno if I'm late, but just read that Sakurai said Smash's Ultimate music takes 1/4 of the space it did in Wii U. I know we saw some songs with 3min+ on the music part of the direct, but maybe we'll get non-cut versions of DK Rap and other stuff now???

I hope so.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I wonder why Sakurai never made a Dante Mii Swordfighter costume.

 

[Will]

I wonder why Sakurai never made a Dante Mii Swordfighter costume.

I have an actual Dante Mii Swordfighter.
thanks for reminding me

 

[DarkFalcon]

Really hope we get full versions of songs that were cut short now.

 

[KMDP]

"Compression technology is better, so while the sound quality is the same, the music takes up 1/4 the space it did in the previous title"

Wow it answered the one thing I was questioning, which was compression making sound quality worse. Thanks Sakurai.

Sakurai: Iwata returned from beyond the grave just to work his incredible compression magic on the music of this game. He promptly then returned to the afterlife, whispering "I give this gift directly to you..."

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Black Knight

Spoiler: Rocket Knight

Spoiler: Shield Knight

 

[Mutsukki]

Though I went to check and the 3+ minutes tracks from the direct where the exact same lenght in Smash 4...

I really hope Sakurai somewhat realises a some of these tracks have been butchered and restore them...

 

[Omega Tyrant]

More songs being added while less space is being used. Pretty much being able to put a lot of the songs in their full size without compromising storage space. Probably why they were able to fit 900+ songs in this already massive game. Probably more space size for things like... cutscenes maybe. People were worried that the file download size was too similar to Smash 4, now this explains a whole lot.

I remember someone pointing out that the 16GB thing was the minimum space Ultimate is going to require rather than its definitive size, regardless though music taking up a lot less space and better compression in general give a bit more hope to those hoping for cutscenes (though I'm still really doubtful it will happen).

 

[RandomAce]

I mean, 1/4 is... 1/4. It's half of half. I'd say that's a whole lot.

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...its-stage-development-music-compression-more/

Though it's just the main points.

It said some stages took Orbital Gate Assualt amount of time to finish.

Which, I guess when your remaking them would in fact take a lot of time. But with an 100 man team, there was sure a lot of stuff they were able to develop.

I guess that might be a con against bringing back Orbital, eh, let’s see what happens next.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I considered Geno a lock with his Mii costume in Smash 4--however, the more we learn about Ultimate, the more it looks like Square Enix was probably the most difficult to work with (just look at the song selection for FF). And there is a big difference between a Mii Costume and fully fleshed out fighter, where legalities are concerned--abilities, animations, music, everything has to be negotiated. While getting the rights to use a character's likeness is big, it's not the only thing to be concerned with in terms of getting the rights for a playable character. I still think it's possible, and is one of my predictions, but less likely at this point, and certainly not a lock.

I'd actually say Microsoft would be less difficult to work with--yes, they're a competitor, but they'd be getting much needed publicity. The problem with Banjo would most likely come to Nintendo, whether they would give a competitor like Microsoft that publicity. Spencer's tweet only confirms what everyone already knew--everybody wants their character in Smash, and Spencer saying he'd allow Banjo in Smash is good PR. Whether it's genuine, we don't know.

And if Sakurai worked his magic and was able to get Nintendo to talk to Microsoft? And went with Steve instead of Banjo? He would ruin all good will established by that point and I would seriously question his judgement. Banjo's legacy with Nintendo can not be overstated, despite now being owned by a competitor. In the 90s, Banjo was up there as one of the big platforming giants, and Donkey Kong 64 wouldn't have been what it was without Banjo-Kazooie. If it wasn't for the Rare buy-out, Banjo would have been a perennial veteran. His popularity was strong during the ballot days (yes, including Japan, if Source Gaming is anything to go by, Steve doesn't even chart). And he has a ready-made moveset, as the game is built on learning new moves that would adapt smoothly to Smash. Steve is a joke character, and not a particularly funny joke either. Minecraft is most notable for its world, and yes, it's popular and could be fairly represented in Smash--as a stage, or Creeper AT. And if Banjo gets in, after that--anything's fair game. Add in Steve or Master Chief, anyone. At that point, my childhood dreams would be complete.

 

[Nethermoosen]

I remember someone pointing out that the 16GB thing was the minimum space Ultimate is going to require rather than its definitive size, regardless though music taking up a lot less space and better compression in general give a bit more hope to those hoping for cutscenes (though I'm still really doubtful it will happen).

Well, it bodes well from the compression of the game as a whole, right? Plus the improved hardware. So, maybe.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Did I miss anything? Last time I saw anything here we talked about Dante

 

[Luigi The President]

Did I miss anything? Last time I saw anything here we talked about Dante

Geno and Banjo funtimes! Also Steve for some reason is here now. From Minecraft. Yea him.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Personally I'd be okay with Incineroar...

But I'd be even more okay with it if Sceptile were to tag along; with that, we'd have a grand total of 3 fully evolved, entirely independent starters, all from different regions. Taking into consideration Sceptile's popularity boost in '15, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet at this point.

I'm sorry, are we not talking about this anymore?

 

[Luigi The President]

Personally I'd be okay with Incineroar...

But I'd be even more okay with it if Sceptile were to tag along; with that, we'd have a grand total of 3 fully evolved, entirely independent starters, all from different regions. Taking into consideration Sceptile's popularity boost in '15, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet at this point.

I wouldn't exactly call it a safe bet...popularity or not, I can't see Sakurai including two different Pokemon newcomers for the sake of representing one extra generation, especially with the overrepresentation Kanto's been given which he doesn't seem to mind.
But, it could totally happen! Just not a safe bet, but that's my own opinion. I hope he appears in some form anyhow.

 

[NintenZ]

So if we get a Shin Megami Tensei protagonist over a Persona protagonist I’m actually gonna be surprised tbh, Persona IS Atlus’ biggest series, it has transcended the SMT series in terms of sales and has continued to flourish in recent times, while mainline SMT has dwindled in recent times, especially with the recent release of Persona 5 and Persona being the more user-friendly series overall I really feel Sakurai would lean more towards Persona.

That’s just me though.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Really hope we get full versions of songs that were cut short now.

Gotta wait until the full game comes out for that to happen (just like last game)

 

[RandomAce]

Did I miss anything? Last time I saw anything here we talked about Dante

No, just some small talk.

And...

Spoiler

there are rumors that Elma is going to be shown in XC2 apparently at gamescom soon and were seen by some people.

Finally, Sakurai is about to release another Famitsu column. It’s mostly about the size of the development team and how it long it takes to create the stages and all the forms and the like.