Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NintenZ]

I’ve actually seen people request Rise for reasons such as “Best girl” and “Canon wiafu”.

While I agree Rise is best girl, personally if they were to go with a Persona 4 character that isn’t the protagonist I feel like it would be Naoto.

 

[Noipoi]

I know I talk about Incineroar a lot, because I really like the Pokemon.
But it's time I realized which gen 7 Pokemon will truly get in.

I should have listened to the leaks.

Spoiler

I actually wouldn't even mind. Steenee's adorable, and it'd be a surprise compared to Incineroar/Decidueye/Lycanroc who we all expect.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I actually wouldn’t be opposed to this at all (He’s actually my favorite Persona period)... But...View attachment 159089
He’s earned it I feel, there’s so much to work with in terms of a moveset and his game has been beyond successful considering it made a previously-niche property into a mainstream gaming franchise. Jack could even be in his moveset since he has the Wild-Card. Out of any SMT-related character I feel he’s the best pick.

Jus’ sayin’

(Also hi Luigi the President nice seeing you bud!)

>Sees another actual Joker supporter

I actually do think an SMT protagonist is the dark horse character that no one really expects when he should at least be noticed (at least more than someone like Takamaru or Ayumi Tachibana which never even got over to the Americas)
Here's all the points SMT actually has going for it:

Longstanding history with Nintendo (since 1987, same year as Final Fantasy for reference)
Instrumental in forming JRPG foundations (picking stats during level up, monster collection, monster fusion, multiple endings based on player choice, dark tones, the list goes on)
Every single game barring SMTII is localized internationally
Every single game barring SMTIII is all on a Nintendo console
Central branch of a large franchise, spawning anime, manga, mobile games
Part of an ensemble cast of iconic demons (Pixie, Jack Frost, Pyro Jack, Alice)
Great moveset potential with said demons, a sword, a gun, etc.
Steady stream of games which all sell well enough to justify a sequel.
Recent game coming out on the Switch.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say the only reason an SMT protagonist isn't requested more is simply people are more aware of Jack Frost and Persona.

View attachment 159091
I mean hell, how many people even know that this meme is from an SMT game and has the SMT logo on it?

But, also, Persona is more popular than SMT, and Sakurai would use it to represent SMT like he used Cloud to represent Final Fantasy.

I’ve actually seen people request Rise for reasons such as “Best girl” and “Canon wiafu”.

While I agree Rise is best girl, personally if they were to go with a Persona 4 character that isn’t the protagonist I feel like it would be Naoto.

I feel like if we were to get a Persona character that isn't Yu it'd either be Brosuke or Teddie. Both are prominent party members within the game, whereas Naoto is the last member to join the party. Even if she appears much earlier in the story, she doesn't take a truly active role in it until much later.

A Persona character is definitely going to be a Wildcard user though. Whether it's Makoto, Aigis, Yu, or Joker is the question. Joker would be easiest for voice acting because Xander Mobus is the ****ing announcer and they already have him in the booth. They could also reuse lines from Persona 5, but they could do the same with any character really.

 

[NintenZ]

>Sees another actually Joker supporter

>Me when another Joker supporter is in the thread:

Yes though, he just feels SO right, I’m really gunning for him.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaan that DMC leak is starting to make me feel some kinda way.

He had insider info, but either that guy decided to **** with everyone and sprinkle in a "oh yeah and Dante is in Smash lul" or Dante is actually in Smash

The Dante stuff is actually one of the more plausible things I've heard. Doesn't mean it's real but it's pretty neat to think about and it gets my brain going.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

>Me when another Joker supporter is in the thread:
View attachment 159093
Yes though, he just feels SO right, I’m really gunning for him.
View attachment 159094

Joker as DLC is a character I'm pretty confident about. I believe that Persona is one of the few "globally recognized franchises that originated from Japan" that Sakurai talks about within the Cloud interview. Even using just Arsene there's a lot he could do, but if he could change around Personas there'd be so much they could do with his moveset.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Page 3333, only comes once, smoke em if you got em

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Joker as DLC is a character I'm pretty confident about. I believe that Persona is one of the few "globally recognized franchises that originated from Japan" that Sakurai talks about within the Cloud interview. Even using just Arsene there's a lot he could do, but if he could change around Personas there'd be so much they could do with his moveset.

What kind of moveset? I know nothing about the series, so I’m curious what kind of potential it brings to the table.

 

[Idon]

Sakurai would use it to represent SMT like he used Cloud to represent Final Fantasy.

I know, I just said that.

But that's the thing: Atlus itself doesn't consider Persona an "SMT" spinoff, it considers it another spinoff-series of Megami Tensei.
While they fall under the banner of "Megaten," SMT is a direct sequel/continuation, whereas Persona is a branch, ala Devil Survivor, Devil Summoner, Jack Bros,
Even disregarding that, the two series are nothing alike and don't represent each other, other than that they're both JRPGs that use the classic demons.

I think in this case, if Joker gets in, it'll likely be because of his sheer popularity and not because SMT "paved the way" for it so to speak.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I'd love to join the Persona discussion, if Persona ever came to the Switch As it is, the only game in the series I got to play was 3, and watched Giant Bomb's full endurance run of 4. I had never thought of Teddie being a potential character, but now I want that. xD Sadly, the main series will probably remain with Sony. Looking forward to trying out Shin Megami Tensei V!

 

[Onua]

How do you all feel about these characters as the echoes for smash ultimate?
13 echoes in total, even if we get a tiny number of newcomers (Which looks to be the case) the echoes beef up the roster p hard

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

How do you all feel about these characters as the echoes for smash ultimate?
13 echoes in total, even if we get a tiny number of newcomers (Which looks to be the case) the echoes beef up the roster p hard

Would be saddened by lack of Megaman echo but that's literally just me no one else seems to be talking about it

 

[WingedSupernova]

Would be saddened by lack of Megaman echo but that's literally just me no one else seems to be talking about it

The only reason I'm not talking about it is because every viable option is in Mega Man's final smash lol.

 

[Idon]

What kind of moveset? I know nothing about the series, so I’m curious what kind of potential it brings to the table.

So the most prominent thing about Persona, are it's standoh powahs.
Basically, a ghost that can use elemental powers and any weapons they might have on hand.

Joker, in particular, has a phantom thief theme, meaning he uses knives and guns along with acrobatic maneuvers combined with supernatural abilities like teleporting, shadow stepping, etc etc.
Arsene, his own personal Persona, uses dark magic (represented in P5 as black and red swirls) along with kicking people with his bladed heels.
Now with them fighting together ala how Persona 4 Arena, the Persona fighting game does it, you could probably make a pretty interesting moveset.

 

[NintenZ]

Joker as DLC is a character I'm pretty confident about. I believe that Persona is one of the few "globally recognized franchises that originated from Japan" that Sakurai talks about within the Cloud interview. Even using just Arsene there's a lot he could do, but if he could change around Personas there'd be so much they could do with his moveset.

Yeah, Sakurai also commented on how he appreciates Persona 5 in a Famitsu column. While he did say that he struggles to find time to play the game due to his lengthy business hours, his praise for the game otherwise was almost endless, especially in the UI (And actually as someone pointed out to me some of the UI in Ultimate is VERY similar to P5’s such as the Final Smash cut-ins), which really says something for the game.

In terms of moveset he has tons of potential, on top of his blade and model guns, the power of the Wild-Card lets him have access to a wide array of Personas, which could be used for him special moves beyond just Arsene (Even Jack Frost could make an appearance in one of his moves).

Combine that with a huge series worth of content to draw from and you have a franchise that really goes well with Smash and is one of the few major third-party Japanese franchises that are globally recognized that I think deserve a spot in Smash. (Can’t really think of many others that don’t at least have SOMETHING already in Smash in one way or another)

 

[BlueMagician]

The only reason I could find for Persona 5 is Sakurai saying he loves the game. But then again he says what games he likes a lot...

 

[DarkFalcon]

How do you all feel about these characters as the echoes for smash ultimate?
13 echoes in total, even if we get a tiny number of newcomers (Which looks to be the case) the echoes beef up the roster p hard

That sounds about right, though I'm still trying to figure out how to make Dixie work within the supposed limitations of echoes. If you give her a unique recovery not shared by anyone else is she really still an echo?

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

The only reason I'm not talking about it is because every viable option is in Mega Man's final smash lol.

Don't you be disrespecting my girl Roll

 

[Idon]

That sounds about right, though I'm still trying to figure out how to make Dixie work within the supposed limitations of echoes. If you give her a unique recovery not shared by anyone else is she really still an echo?

Chrom has a unique recovery move, so we know they can at least entirely replace moves if need be.

 

[Noipoi]

How do you all feel about these characters as the echoes for smash ultimate?
13 echoes in total, even if we get a tiny number of newcomers (Which looks to be the case) the echoes beef up the roster p hard

Out of the echoes we know about Daisy is my favorite, her voice is so annoying I can't wait to enrage my buddy.
Out of the ones you suggested.
Dixie Kong-Cool
Black Knight-Don't care
Isabelle-Yay!
Medusa-Whatever
Shadow-OW THE EDGE
Ken-alright
Besides Isabelle who I really like, I wouldn't really care.

 

[WingedSupernova]

Yeah, Sakurai also commented on how he appreciates Persona 5 in a Famitsu column. While he did say that he struggles to find time to play the game due to his lengthy business hours, his praise for the game otherwise was almost endless, especially in the UI (And actually as someone pointed out to me some of the UI in Ultimate is VERY similar to P5’s such as the Final Smash cut-ins), which really says something for the game.

In terms of moveset he has tons of potential, on top of his blade and model guns, the power of the Wild-Card lets him have access to a wide array of Personas, which could be used for him special moves beyond just Arsene (Even Jack Frost could make an appearance in one of his moves).

Combine that with a huge series worth of content to draw from and you have a franchise that really goes well with Smash and is one of the few major third-party Japanese franchises that are globally recognized that I think deserve a spot in Smash. (Can’t really think of many others that don’t at least have SOMETHING already in Smash in one way or another)

Honestly, if we get Persona 5 in Smash there are so many amazing things they could do with it. An all-out-attack for a final smash with cameos from some of the party members comes to mind, as does a possible codec/palutena's guidance conversation portion with dialogue from the Phantom Thieves.

Edit: Not to mention the announcer for Smash is Joker's VA so that'd be funny.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Chrom has a unique recovery move, so we know they can at least entirely replace moves if need be.

Yea but the pieces from said recovery are taken from other fighters. Like, maybe they can take DK's recovery and heavily alter the animations to match Dixie's twirling in the DKC games....Idunno.

 

[Idon]

Yea but the pieces from said recovery are taken from other fighters. Like, maybe they can take DK's recovery and heavily alter the animations to match Dixie's twirling in the DKC games....Idunno.

While it's similar to Ike's, it's actually unique.
He does a slash that arcs upwards, which is entirely new,
leaps up with the sword in hand, unlike Ike who throws it
and spins a bit before going down, which is the only part that's likely copied straight from Ike.

So yeah, a DK upB with some tweaks is probably the end result.

 

[WingedSupernova]

Don't you be disrespecting my girl Roll

Me? I would never.

Yea but the pieces from said recovery are taken from other fighters. Like, maybe they can take DK's recovery and heavily alter the animations to match Dixie's twirling in the DKC games....Idunno.

I feel like if Dixie got a haircopter recovery it'd function similarly to either Villager or K. Rool based on what we've seen.

 

[NintenZ]

Personally, no matter the protagonist, I feel like the Assist Trophy would be Aigis. She’s extremely iconic to the Persona series, and I’d actually go as far to say she’s the series’ equivalent to Zero or Alucard (She even got her own spin-off prequel and an add-on to P3 where she was the main character), so with all that considered it just feels right for her to be the Assist.

Likely the way she’d function is that she’d use her ammunition and Athena in her attacks that would send opponents flying. She fits perfectly as the Assist.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

The only reason I could find for Persona 5 is Sakurai saying he loves the game. But then again he says what games he likes a lot...

What other games have Sakurai openly admitted to liking a lot?

Xenoblade Chronicles comes to mind immediately.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

How do you all feel about these characters as the echoes for smash ultimate?
13 echoes in total, even if we get a tiny number of newcomers (Which looks to be the case) the echoes beef up the roster p hard

Dixie as an echo is still a no from me, to make her feel like herself you'd have to change so much that she wouldn't really be an echo anymore and it'd be a waste to make her a clone when she could be an extremely unique character on her own. They've planned to make her unique in the past so just do that again.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I feel like if Dixie got a haircopter recovery it'd function similarly to either Villager or K. Rool based on what we've seen.

If you consider Tropical Freeze sure, but in the older DKC games her hair twirl is much closer to DK's recovery.

 

[DevaAshera]

Soo..out of curiousity, what costumes would y'all buy if costume DLC was a thing (or end up implemented in base game). I don't think anyone would mind if character costumes replaced the Mii Fighter costumes as the trap ton of DLC thing.
Here's what I'd love..

Spoiler

: Classic DK, MP2 Safari
: OoT, TP, Fierce Deity, Gerudo Voe
: Fusion Suit, Samus Returns Suit
: 'X-Ray Suit'
: Boshi, MP2 Pirate, Yarn Yoshi
: Assault Suit, Adventures Outfit
: Other Cosplay Pikachus
: Dr. Luigi, Mr. L
: Pajamas, Robot
: SNES C. Falcon, Famicom (GX)
: Wedding Peach, Melee Dress
: Classic Daisy (SML/MP3)
: Dry Bowser, Wedding Bowser
: OoT, Brawl, Warriors
: LttP Maiden, SS, BotW
: Assault Suit, Adventures Outfit
: Classic Marth, Melee, Wedding (FEH)
: Spring Exalt (FEH), Bride, Great Lord
: Oracles Outfit/Hair, MM Concept Design
: TP Ganondorf, Warriors Ganondorf
: Movie Armor, Shadow Mewtwo
: Original Design, Eliwood's Outfit
: Great Lord, Spring Exalt, Mirage Chrom
: Morpho Knight, Samurai
: Classic Outfit
: Dark Ver. of Pit's Classic Outfit
: 'Justin Bailey', Other M Military Fatigues
: Pirate Wario (G&W)
: Old Snake, Naked Snake
: Lord (PoR), Vanguard (RD)
: SA2B Racing Suit, SA2 PSO Suit
: Shogun Dedede, Classic Dedede
: Louie
: Outset Clothes, Conductor, Cheerleader
: Brawl Design, Assault Suit
: Proto Man, Quint, Rock, Helmetless
: Tennis Dress, Bike Suit
: SNES 'Mac?'
: Ash Greninja
: Classic Palutena
: Ms. Pac-Man
Grandmaster*
: 'Hot Ryu' (SFV), Evil Ryu
: Kingdom Hearts, Infantry Cloud
: Nohr Noble*, Hoshido Noble*
: Bayo3 Design, Olde Design
: Red Haired Re-Design
: SotN Design
: Captain, Roolenstein, Boxer, Mayan

*Both Genders

I didn't give everyone costumes as some like have 3 already while others like have no good options (he's essentially a costumed Mario himself).
didn't get any as they'd get in the way of his Copy ability.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Alright. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I have to at least elaborate on an old conversation I wasn’t here for.

Sakurai is saying “We hope you don’t expect many newcomers.” He isn’t saying there aren’t actually quite a few. Now, I know that bringing back all characters is an undertaking, but humor me.

Sakurai and Bandai Namco built Smash 4 across two consoles of vastly differing specifications from the ground up. And it ha considerable content. That’s 58 characters and 56 stages and new mechanics and a new engine and remaking classic mode and doing the crazy tickets and such. He also did it with a different team than he did with Brawl.

Sakurai says that making a new echo is much easier than making a brand new character. Well, Smash Ultimate is like a development echo of Smash 4.

He reused 58 characters and 56 stages. He changed the mechanics. He made everything gorgeous. He tweaked those characters mechanically.

But what is he making from the ground up? Basically, only 9 veterans? And those are already set up, even if they didn’t reuse data, because they know what to make before they started. They made 44? stages that were already made in previous smash games. (I know that isn’t as easy as I make it sound).
The whole game, while superior to it’s predecessor, is like an echo. Fast tracked through development.

So, from concept to implementation, they have made 3 echoes and 4 brand new fighters, 1 brand new echo(still just an echo) and 3 new stages. Why again do we think there can’t be many newcomers?

 

[WingedSupernova]

If you consider Tropical Freeze sure, but in the older DKC games her hair twirl is much closer to DK's recovery.

Yeah it really didn't do much back in the old days haha

 

[DarkFalcon]

Dixie as an echo is still a no from me, to make her feel like herself you'd have to change so much that she wouldn't really be an echo anymore and it'd be a waste to make her a clone when she could be an extremely unique character on her own. They've planned to make her unique in the past so just do that again.

If they made Dark Samus work, they could make Dixie work. They've shown they're willing to alter animations quite a lot, while also giving a different move not even shared by the fighter they're echoing.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Soo..out of curiousity, what costumes would y'all buy if costume DLC was a thing (or end up implemented in base game). I don't think anyone would mind if character costumes replaced the Mii Fighter costumes as the trap ton of DLC thing.

Awakening design
Ukulele
Fashionable Outfit
Mario Kart biking suits

 

[BlueMagician]

What other games have Sakurai openly admitted to liking a lot?

Fallout 4
Darius Burst CS
Just Cause 3
Dragon Quest Builders
Minecraft
Attack on Titan

Source: this interview where he shows off games he likes

 

[Zinith]

Soo..out of curiousity, what costumes would y'all buy if costume DLC was a thing (or end up implemented in base game). I don't think anyone would mind if character costumes replaced the Mii Fighter costumes as the trap ton of DLC thing.
Here's what I'd love..

Spoiler

: Classic DK, MP2 Safari
: OoT, TP, Fierce Deity, Gerudo Voe
: Fusion Suit, Samus Returns Suit
: 'X-Ray Suit'
: Boshi, MP2 Pirate, Yarn Yoshi
: Assault Suit, Adventures Outfit
: Other Cosplay Pikachus
: Dr. Luigi, Mr. L
: Pajamas, Robot
: SNES C. Falcon, Famicom (GX)
: Wedding Peach, Melee Dress
: Classic Daisy (SML/MP3)
: Dry Bowser, Wedding Bowser
: OoT, Brawl, Warriors
: LttP Maiden, SS, BotW
: Assault Suit, Adventures Outfit
: Classic Marth, Melee, Wedding (FEH)
: Spring Exalt (FEH), Bride, Great Lord
: Oracles Outfit/Hair, MM Concept Design
: TP Ganondorf, Warriors Ganondorf
: Movie Armor, Shadow Mewtwo
: Original Design, Eliwood's Outfit
: Great Lord, Spring Exalt, Mirage Chrom
: Morpho Knight, Samurai
: Classic Outfit
: Dark Ver. of Pit's Classic Outfit
: 'Justin Bailey', Other M Military Fatigues
: Pirate Wario (G&W)
: Old Snake, Naked Snake
: Lord (PoR), Vanguard (RD)
: SA2B Racing Suit, SA2 PSO Suit
: Shogun Dedede, Classic Dedede
: Louie
: Outset Clothes, Conductor, Cheerleader
: Brawl Design, Assault Suit
: Proto Man, Quint, Rock, Helmetless
: Tennis Dress, Bike Suit
: SNES 'Mac?'
: Ash Greninja
: Classic Palutena
: Ms. Pac-Man
Grandmaster*
: 'Hot Ryu' (SFV), Evil Ryu
: Kingdom Hearts, Infantry Cloud
: Nohr Noble*, Hoshido Noble*
: Bayo3 Design, Olde Design
: Red Haired Re-Design
: SotN Design
: Captain, Roolenstein, Boxer, Mayan

*Both Genders

I didn't give everyone costumes as some like have 3 already while others like have no good options (he's essentially a costumed Mario himself)

Well, if Boshi becomes one of those, that may bode well for the NEXT Smash title (a la Mii Costumes from Smash 4)

 

[NintendoKnight]

The Dante stuff is actually one of the more plausible things I've heard. Doesn't mean it's real but it's pretty neat to think about and it gets my brain going.

Legit, I'd be psyched to see Dante in Smash. Ton of moveset potential, very likable character, everything he does would look super cool, and he'd be Cloud 2.0 It would be super cool to see Bayonetta's male counterpart. Heck, the two of them in one game would be beyond epic!

 

[WingedSupernova]

Fallout 4
Darius Burst CS
Just Cause 3
Dragon Quest Builders
Minecraft
Attack on Titan

Source: this interview where he shows off games he likes

pffft I just thought about Rico Rodriguez in Smash and how he could grab someone on the complete other side of the stage with his grappling hook and how many Melee Marth memes could come from that.

 

[Ivander]

The only reason I could find for Persona 5 is Sakurai saying he loves the game. But then again he says what games he likes a lot...

What other games have Sakurai openly admitted to liking a lot?

*coughundertalecough*

 

[Luigi The President]

That should work.

https://i.imgtc.com/b1KePnB.jpg

Luigi The President Luigi my bad! Lol

All good! Thank you!

 

[Nethermoosen]

If they made Dark Samus work, they could make Dixie work. They've shown they're willing to alter animations quite a lot, while also giving a different move not even shared by the fighter they're echoing.

I agree here. An echo can look as if it has a completely different moveset so long as the hitboxes match. Dixie could jab with her hair, up air, forward air, any air but maybe neutral. She could use her hair spinning into a FSmash, sweep her hair for Diddy’s dtilt. Just so long as they can match hitboxes and General hurtboxes, I don’t see why an echo couldn’t look quite different while being mostly the same mechanically.