Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[StormC]

If Dixie has her hair recovery and grabs then I will have no complaints with her being an echo.

 

[BlueMagician]

Jack by himself cannot fully represent either SMT or Persona - he can only use ice attacks, when both series have a focus on exploiting a variety elemental weaknesses.

I'm just gonna comment on this one point, but Pokemon is the same, and look what we got. They even removed the weaknesses from Pokemon Trainer trio because people didn't care for the weakness system being in Smash.

Incidently, Jack Frost has some Physical attacks and an odd assortment of buffs and debuffs he could use as well.

 

[Staarih]

We got a Pokeball Pokemon update on the blog: Togedemaru:

【きょうのアイテム】ポケモン「トゲデマル」
周囲に電撃を撒き散らします。巻き込まれると手痛いダメージを受けますので、電撃に巻き込まれないよう、近づかないことをオススメします。#スマブラSP　#ポケモン pic.twitter.com/0Pet6vHVsg

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) August 22, 2018

 

[StormC]

Ultimately Dixie just got screwed over not being in DK64 to have more material to draw from.

You could get super creative and give her, idk, a down B that summons Animal Buddies, but then that’s not really fair to Diddy who didn’t get anything like that.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I can't imagine they would have Dixie's dash attack be the cartwheel. That move is just so specific to Diddy.

We have Donkey's roll and Diddy's cartwheel as their dash attacks, so it only makes sense to have Dixie's be her hair twirl.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

Richter has an identical walking animation to Simon in his games.

1) And people still called it fake. There was also the 100% correct leak on GameFaqs that was called fake due to Duck Hunt being seen as impossible and not including the Chorus Men from the widely believed Gematsu leak.
2) They chose Cloud over Warrior of Light due to popularity. Cloud isn't from the first game in his series. The demo is also from May, Simon could have been worked on but not yet implemented into the character select code yet. The trailer could easily be made in a two month time frame.
3) I know, I'm playing Devil's Advocate. Sakurai also may not go with fan demand for every character. We can never assume what Sakurai will do..4/5 times we'll be wrong.

1) So what you’re saying is popular opinion overwrites evidence and reason? Good to know. When this leak at least has some evidence (that people try to refute), then we can talk.
2) Unlike Castlevania, Final Fantasy has a constantly rotating cast, and Cloud is easily the most popular and iconic main character and the most sensible to get. Simon is the first thing that comes to mind for most people when thinking of Castlevania, and he was the star of multiple games. You’re making a false equivalency. Additionally, I see you totally brushed off the point of the direct focusing completely on Simon, who obviously was the one intended from the start with how significant he wasn’t compared to Richter.
3) There’s playing devil’s advocate, and then there’s covering your ears to things you don’t want to hear. Sakurai may be weird, but he would not, by any means, add a random Pokémon that is so far down on the popularlity totem pole ‘just because.’ She’s outdated, holds no historical significance, was never popular, and holds no noticeable fan base nowadays.

Whether you want it to be real or are just trying to make its case, you look foolish trying to push for it. If he hasn’t no evidence and you have to give him the benefit of the doubt, he makes a claim as wildly incorrect as Simon just not being there, and a character pick is bizarre and pointless as Gothitelle, it’s time to realize he has nothing to stand on.

 

[Nap_]

I know a lot of people think Dixie would be properly represented with a ponytail propel and the gumball popgun, but I feel like Dixie should also at least have her hair twirl as her dash attack, and have her grab opponents with her hair (basically all of the abilities she showcased in DKC 2, 3 and TF.) If they do that I won't be too upset.

Nope. Dixie hair grabs only exist in the original Countries. In Tropical Freeze she lifts the barrels with her arms, the recovery, dash and ground slam are the only uses of her ponytail. If she's an echo only changing the upB and the dash is fair enough according to TP. Hair grabs no longer exist.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ultimately Dixie just got screwed over not being in DK64 to have more material to draw from.

You could get super creative and give her, idk, a down B that summons Animal Buddies, but then that’s not really fair to Diddy who didn’t get anything like that.

Kinda, but they can still give Dixie some of Tiny's abilities that make sense.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

For the record, the differences between Diddy and Dixie in DKC2 are

Diddy has higher acceleration meaning he can make tighter jumps (like between two of those stupid bees) while Dixie can use her floating to take longer jumps. Also, Diddy holds objects in front of him, so he can use a cannonball as a shield while Dixie holds them above her head, using them as a helmet.

Now we have to see if they'll change Dixies physics and blur the meaning of echo further or give her a number.

 

[Zinith]

For some reason, Dixie's sentient hair creeps me out

 

[Soulsaint]

If Dante is getting in as the third original capcom character, Sega needs one too

... GILIUS THUNDERHEAD AXES THE COMPETITION!

(Just imagine him riding on Chicken Leg or just an Assist trophy and you can attack with and knock others off)
(Wait Streets of Rage assist trophy police car)

Seriously though, I would prefer the third party's that only have 1 entry to get an entry before the others at this point. Heihachi/Nightmare for Bamco, Sora/Geno for Square Enix (are we counting geno as third party add?). If then another third party gets added I win't mind, but tinwould nice if it's somewhat balanced. And I think Bamco not getting a second one despite working in the game would be a shame for sure.

(Also I unironically would want Gillius, I love the Sega beat em ups, and he's pretty much the mascot for those games. but I understand more iconic character should be in first.)

 

[Zinith]

Today's Item: Pokemon: Togedemaru

This Pokémon shoots sparks from its body. You'll take severe damage if they hit you, so we recommend keeping your distance.

 

[wildvine47]

How do you all feel about these characters as the echoes for smash ultimate?
13 echoes in total, even if we get a tiny number of newcomers (Which looks to be the case) the echoes beef up the roster p hard

I think this is pretty darn close, but it’s missing Impa as a Sheik echo, who I still think is one of the likeliest echo options. Skyward Sword Impa would work perfectly as an echo, and it’d give Skyward Sword a rep seeing as how they’re attempting to diversify the Zelda series origins now. Add her on here and I think you’re golden.

 

[Nonno Umby]

What about MP4?

Well, Metroid Prime 3 answers that...

Spoiler

At the end of the game the planet Phaze, homeworld of Phazon, in completely destroyed, and all of the Pahzon in the universe is annihilated, including Dark Samus who was a being made entirely of Phazon. She is dead, woth no chance of returning.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't. I actually think the echo chamber of online speculation makes people think he's more likely than he is. I feel the same about Skull Kid actually. The idea that he's a lock is not an uncommon sentiment though. I think he has decent chances, I just don't think he's a lock at this point like some people say.

People remember Ridley and K. Rool, but they seem to forget Waluigi, Takamaru, and Ashley.

I'm still not 100% on board with the "we're getting nothing but popular picks" idea, but I won't deny that his popularity puts him in a better position. That being said, Geno's popularity didn't resurface until Waluigi got disconfirmed, and the purple guy probably would've been considered a lock had he not been shown off at E3.

We've gotten a few popular characters confirmed, but we've also gotten a lot of popular characters disconfirmed as well. Being popular does not ensure that your character is guaranteed. Ridley and K. Rool surpassed practically every other character in fan demand, so to compare Geno to either of those two and claim he's a lock is jumping the gun quite a bit.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

People remember Ridley and K. Rool, but they seem to forget Waluigi, Takamaru, and Ashley.

I'm still not 100% on board with the "we're getting nothing but popular picks" idea, but I won't deny that his popularity puts him in a better position. That being said, Geno's popularity didn't resurface until Waluigi got disconfirmed, and the purple guy probably would've been considered a lock had he not been shown off at E3.

We've gotten a few popular characters confirmed, but we've also gotten a lot popular characters disconfirmed as well. Being popular does not ensure that your character is guaranteed. Ridley and K. Rool surpassed practically every other character in fan demand, so to compare Geno to either of those two and claim he's a lock is jumping the gun quite a bit.

Waluigi didn't have popularity in 2015. In fact, what he was known for back then was /v/ stuffing the ballot box with him for the lulz

And Nintendo knew about it

 

[StormC]

People remember Ridley and K. Rool, but they seem to forget Waluigi, Takamaru, and Ashley.

I'm still not 100% on board with the "we're getting nothing but popular picks" idea, but I won't deny that his popularity puts him in a better position. That being said, Geno's popularity didn't resurface until Waluigi got disconfirmed, and the purple guy probably would've been considered a lock had he not been shown off at E3.

We've gotten a few popular characters confirmed, but we've also gotten a lot popular characters disconfirmed as well. Being popular does not ensure that your character is guaranteed. Ridley and K. Rool surpassed practically every other character in fan demand, so to compare Geno to either of those two and claim he's a lock is jumping the gun quite a bit.

Waluigi and Ashley weren't especially popular in 2015 and Takamaru has never been popular outside of super niche Smash groups.

Not saying I think Geno is in, but still.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Also Waluigi was deconfirmed on the announcement of Smash Ultimate.

Of course there was a lot less talk about Geno in the next Smash game before it was official announced

What are you supposed to talk about when the game isn't even announced?

 

[Nap_]

Geno is like a wasted slot in Europe, Mario RPG was never released here till VC so he's not very popular. At least no popular worldwide. Geno got some problems becoming a third party entry. For me, he isn't a sure shot.
But hey, we got Ness since N64 and Earthbound never reached Europe, it could be possible. It wouldn't surprise me becoming in or not.

 

[Cosmic77]

Waluigi didn't have popularity in 2015. In fact, what he was known for back then was /v/ stuffing the ballot box with him for the lulz

And Nintendo knew about it

Waluigi didn't have as huge of a following as he does now, but you can't tell me Waluigi wasn't popular. Sakurai even acknowledged his popularity during the April 2014 Smash Direct when he held up a Waluigi plush and explained that not every popular character would get in Smash.

Waluigi and Ashley weren't especially popular in 2015 and Takamaru has never been popular outside of super niche Smash groups.

Not saying I think Geno is in, but still.

I'll agree that Takamaru wasn't extremely popular (moreso expected than anything else), but the first two were definitely popular back during the ballot. I saw them both frequently brought up in conversation, and I'd even go as far to say that those two were just as popular, if not more popular than Geno.

Honestly, I don't remember many people getting vocal with Geno until the Mii costume. Getting any acknowledgement to Geno was a huge suprise to everyone.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Geno is like a wasted slot in Europe, Mario RPG was never released here till VC so he's not very popular. At least no popular worldwide. Geno got some problems becoming a third party entry. For me, he isn't a sure shot.
But hey, we got Ness since N64 and Earthbound never reached Europe, it could be possible. It wouldn't surprise me becoming in or not.

I think that's the reason the SNES Mini included EarthBound and Super Mario RPG. EarthBound was also advertised fornit reaching Europe first time ever through it's VC release. In a way, it's been relevant to us now since a while. Am also from Europe btw. And I do acknowledge Geno's popularity. Even played a little SMRPG due to Geno's support thread during Brawl's speculation.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Waluigi didn't have as huge of a following as he does now, but you can't tell me Waluigi wasn't popular. Sakurai even acknowledged his popularity during the April 2014 Smash Direct when he held up a Waluigi plush and explained that not every popular character would get in Smash.



I'll agree that Takamaru wasn't extremely popular (moreso expected than anything else), but the first two were definitely popular back during the ballot. I saw them both frequently brought up in conversation, and I'd even go as far to say that those two were just as popular, if not more popular than Geno.

Honestly, I don't remember many people getting vocal with Geno until the Mii costume. Getting any acknowledgement to Geno was a huge suprise to everyone.

Geno had a 400 page support thread for Brawl. I don't see how it's so surprising

And no, Waluigi did not have a large support base in Smash 4. It was all just memers. I guess that's no different than now though.

 

[Zinith]

God, with the hours I'm up at, I always feel like the only American on this site

 

[Soulsaint]

Geno had a 400 page support thread for Brawl. I don't see how it's so surprising

And no, Waluigi did not have a large support base in Smash 4. It was all just memers. I guess that's no different than now though.

Waluigi is a memey character though. But I genuinely like him, even though I went WHAAA when I saw his Assist Trophy.

Edit: I saw Medusa's full artwork. I really want her as an echo now. She looks so awesome, but I also want each snakes eyes popping out when they get hit, ala Donkey Kong.

 

[NintenRob]

I don't really see Black Knight as an echo unless they're going really all out with them

 

[StormC]

Waluigi didn't have as huge of a following as he does now, but you can't tell me Waluigi wasn't popular. Sakurai even acknowledged his popularity during the April 2014 Smash Direct when he held up a Waluigi plush and explained that not every popular character would get in Smash.



I'll agree that Takamaru wasn't extremely popular (moreso expected than anything else), but the first two were definitely popular back during the ballot. I saw them both frequently brought up in conversation, and I'd even go as far to say that those two were just as popular, if not more popular than Geno.

Honestly, I don't remember many people getting vocal with Geno until the Mii costume. Getting any acknowledgement to Geno was a huge suprise to everyone.

Waluigi is all over the place. He does very well on some 2015 polls and is practically nonexistent on others.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...w5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=1483868529

From an aggregate collection of polls with 45k votes, Waluigi does beat Geno. But Ashley doesn't even chart. I've never seen Ashley in the top 20.

 

[Cosmic77]

Geno had a 400 page support thread for Brawl. I don't see how it's so surprising

Yes, and then in Smash 4's two and a half years of speculation, he couldn't crack 100 pages. Meanwhile, Ridley's support thread stays true to its character and becomes one of the biggest support threads in Smashboards history.

A character's popularity doesn't automatically get carried over to the next Smash game. Support can be lost, and that's what happened with a few of the Brawl popular picks. Geno and Krystal suffered the most from this.

Waluigi is all over the place. He does very well on some 2015 polls and is practically nonexistent on others.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...w5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=1483868529

From an aggregate collection of polls with 45k votes, Waluigi does beat Geno. But Ashley doesn't even chart. I've never seen Ashley in the top 20.

Coincidentally, Geno and Krystal are right next to each other in the global results.

Anyway, that's close to what I expected. Ashley wasn't as popular as Waluigi, but I'd still argue she was one of the more frequently requested characters. Might have over exaggerated her popularity back then though.

 

[Jetsurge]

Mario RPG was never released here till VC so he's not very popular. At least no popular worldwide. Geno got some problems becoming a third party entry. For me, he isn't a sure shot.
But hey, we got Ness since N64 and Earthbound never reached Europe, it could be possible. It wouldn't surprise me becoming in or not.

Reminder Sakurai added Lucas to Brawl

 

[Lyndis_]

I don't think Dixie requires hair grabs, but it's likely be just an aesthetic change like DS has for her dodge, so I wouldn't put it out of the question.

However the hair up-B and twirl neutral-B would be necessary, honestly. I also imagine they'd reskin the peanut popgun to the gumball popgun, since they're functionally identical.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Reminder Sakurai added Lucas to Brawl

When he though that Mother 3 was going to released in the West. He even said that if he knew that wasn't the case, he wouldn't have included Lucas, as confirmed by SourceGaming:

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/728252930382422016?s=09

 

[Cosmic77]

Reminder Sakurai added Lucas to Brawl

That's a little different though. Sakurai couldn't have known Mother 3 wouldn't be released internationally. In fact, if he had waited any longer to make Brawl, Lucas might have missed out.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The votes also combine US/ Europe for some reason and Geno is disproportionately high considering he doesn't have European support.

Geno's fanbase has always been US and Japan.

Waluigi has no support in Japan.

 

[NintenRob]

Reminder Sakurai added Lucas to Brawl

Which he did before even knowing if the game would release worldwide or not

Fire Emblem is a better example. But even they were originally intended for the Japanese version only

 

[Lyndis_]

Reminder Sakurai added Lucas to Brawl

I'm unsure what that means in relation to Geno. Mother 3 came out in 2006, and was in development for so long that he was intended to be in Melee. Brawl started development iirc in 2005, so it makes sense he was added.

 

[Demonslyer401]

God, with the hours I'm up at, I always feel like the only American on this site

you're not alone I just don't type that often

 

[Nonno Umby]

Which he did before even knowing if the game would release worldwide or not

Fire Emblem is a better example. But even they were originally intended for the Japanese version only

Yeah. And also Fire Emblem was an huge series active since the NES/Famicom with 5 games out and a 6th coming when Melee was in development. A little different than a single 20+ years old game.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One thing I've seen with Krystal is when polls have a ranking (5 for wanted, 1 for don't want) Krystal gets a lot of 5 votes but almost as many 1 votes.

Can't still be that divisive all those years on can she?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Whatever the hell is being discussed just started because I thought it was funny that non-fans had more confidence of Geno getting in than fans did.

Like, I don't even know what the discussion even became at this point and what is being argued.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Geno is like a wasted slot in Europe, Mario RPG was never released here till VC so he's not very popular. At least no popular worldwide. Geno got some problems becoming a third party entry. For me, he isn't a sure shot.
But hey, we got Ness since N64 and Earthbound never reached Europe, it could be possible. It wouldn't surprise me becoming in or not.

Super Mario RPG was top of the VC charts for ages so while he doesn't have the same nostalgia as other characters he does have those who really got into his game.

Plus, you underestimate the amount of people who ROM'd the game back in the day.

Source: Am European.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Super Mario RPG was top of the VC charts for ages so while he doesn't have the same nostalgia as other characters he does have those who really got into his game.

Plus, you underestimate the amount of people who ROM'd the game back in the day.

Source: Am European.

This.

Am Australian so never got SMRPG until the VC release and it's easily one of the best games I got from the service. Was also one of the first games I played on my SNES Mini.