Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

Why does Banjo have a low possibility? It’s not only possible, Phil Spencer is just waiting for it. Maybe Sakurai isn’t into it. Maybe Banjo wasn’t a great presence on the ballot. But Phil invites them to do so and we all know it. I don’t know what kind of deal it would take, I don’t know what Phil wants out of it, but the facts we have say “It’s up to Sora Ltd.” It’s a decision away for base-game or DLC.

Speaking of which, let’s not pretend this won’t have DLC. It’s more than likely a requirement by Nintendo.

Let's be real.

Literally every developer would say "Oh yeah, I'd love my character in Smash!"

 

[Nethermoosen]

Dude. Bro. Dudebro. Look me dead in the eyes and tell me after Ridley and K Roll this isn't the best shot Geno's ever had.
Look me dead in the eyes and tell me Isabelle wouldn't be an easy echo to implement. Look me dead in the eyes and tell me Incineroar isn't one of the more likely Alola Newcomers.
I'm not saying they're shoo ins, but they've all got good chances.

Look me dead in the eyes and tell me Salazzle wouldn’t be cooler. Look me in the eyes and tell me facts about how it’s never gonna happen, but still, don’t forget the first part.

 

[Noipoi]

Why does Banjo have a low possibility? It’s not only possible, Phil Spencer is just waiting for it. Maybe Sakurai isn’t into it. Maybe Banjo wasn’t a great presence on the ballot. But Phil invites them to do so and we all know it. I don’t know what kind of deal it would take, I don’t know what Phil wants out of it, but the facts we have say “It’s up to Sora Ltd.” It’s a decision away for base-game or DLC.

Speaking of which, let’s not pretend this won’t have DLC. It’s more than likely a requirement by Nintendo.

Phil Spencer did say that, but what developer says "Hell no! I don't want my character in Smash!"
It could happen, but i'm not sure how likely Banjo and Kazooie are, that's why their the wild cards, because i'm not sure.

 

[Nazyrus]

Honestly, I can't even tell what's happening in that 2nd gif.

Oh that's not part of my support list, don't worry lol.

 

[Noipoi]

Look me dead in the eyes and tell me Salazzle wouldn’t be cooler. Look me in the eyes and tell me facts about how it’s never gonna happen, but still, don’t forget the first part.

Salazzle makes me mildly uncomfortable, but don't even get me started on Pheromosa.
I feel like Tapu Koko could happen too, a lot of people sleep on the land spirit.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Let's be real.

Literally every developer would say "Oh yeah, I'd love my character in Smash!"

I think you meant figuratively. And not every developer is Vice President of Gaming at Microsoft or head of a console brand or directly states their desires in public forums.

 

[KMDP]

THAT'S WHAT THEY ALL SAY.

Idon, you missed a trick!

THAT'S WHAT ALL PEOPLE SAY.

C'mon, man. You were talking to Noipoi . I mean, I had to fudge the saying, but...

 

[DarkFalcon]

Dude. Bro. Dudebro. Look me dead in the eyes and tell me after Ridley and K Roll this isn't the best shot Geno's ever had.
Look me dead in the eyes and tell me Isabelle wouldn't be an easy echo to implement. Look me dead in the eyes and tell me Incineroar isn't one of the more likely Alola Newcomers.
I'm not saying they're shoo ins, but they've all got good chances.

The difference is Ridley and K. Rool are owned by Nintendo. With Square Enix owning Geno it's really just a toss up to me.

 

[P.Kat]

So who else has had some of their most wanteds decomfirmed? For me, Bomberman and Shovel Knight being AT’s really hurt me. Also, Meowth and Raichu as Pokeballs, even if they were more longshots. In fact, these guys are my most wanted after Rare characters and Elma.
Please let Banjo, Dixie, and Elma in Smash!

My Sig will show you.

 

[Luigi The President]

Remember, all...remember, remember...

The Geno Mii costume...
Yes, this little guy...who got a splash screen and was highlighted...
...just...don't forget this means they have the rights, my friends...

 

[Nethermoosen]

Salazzle makes me mildly uncomfortable, but don't even get me started on Pheromosa.
I feel like Tapu Koko could happen too, a lot of people sleep on the land spirit.

Is Incineroar a popular Pokémon in general? I don’t like him, so I’ve never bothered to see if he is.

 

[Noipoi]

Idon, you missed a trick!

THAT'S WHAT ALL PEOPLE SAY.

C'mon, man. You were talking to Noipoi . I mean, I had to fudge the saying, but...

Spoiler

I don't get it what's joke?...

 

[Nethermoosen]

Idon, you missed a trick!

THAT'S WHAT ALL PEOPLE SAY.

C'mon, man. You were talking to Noipoi . I mean, I had to fudge the saying, but...

I see what you did there.

 

[KMDP]

Spoiler

I don't get it what's joke?...

Which letters stand out the most?

 

[Idon]

Is Incineroar a popular Pokémon in general? I don’t like him, so I’ve never bothered to see if he is.

Kinda.
On one hand, he's yet another fire type that walks on 2 legs and punches people, buuuuut

He's also a goofy, buff, wrestler cat.

It depends on who you ask, though I think Gamefreak's the people who decide who gets in in terms of Pokemon, so it's a moot point anyways.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Remember, all...remember, remember...

The Geno Mii costume...
Yes, this little guy...who got a splash screen and was highlighted...
...just...don't forget this means they have the rights, my friends...
View attachment 159087

They were given the right to use a costume in that game.

 

[Zinith]

Idon, you missed a trick!

THAT'S WHAT ALL PEOPLE SAY.

C'mon, man. You were talking to Noipoi . I mean, I had to fudge the saying, but...

There's a fade-out BB Code? Hmm, I learn something new everyday...

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Remember, all...remember, remember...

The Geno Mii costume...
Yes, this little guy...who got a splash screen and was highlighted...
...just...don't forget this means they have the rights, my friends...
View attachment 159087

I think what's MORE important is the interview that accompanies this costume.

The one where Sakurai says he wanted to put Geno in the game.

Seriously I'm amazed people don't bring it up more.

 

[Nethermoosen]

Kinda.
On one hand, he's yet another fire type that walks on 2 legs and punches people, buuuuut

He's also a goofy, buff, wrestler cat.

It depends on who you ask, though I think Gamefreak's the people who decide who gets in in terms of Pokemon, so it's a moot point anyways.

Fair enough. I have heard down the vine of wine(before fermentation) that Gamefreak is kinda stingy with their Pokemans.

 

[Idon]

Which letters stand out the most?

uhh, TTWTLOLS

 

[Luigi The President]

They were given the right to use a costume in that game.

True and a good point, but...they were given the complete right to use the image of this character in their game, and allow you to even play as a variation of him. I really don't see how far off that is from just the character, who, remember, Squenix has never been keen about using-and it seems even allowed his use in a game as tiny as Superstar Sega, though I may be wrong about the specifics there, apologies!

I think what's MORE important is the interview that accompanies this costume.

The one where Sakurai says he wanted to put Geno in the game.

Seriously I'm amazed people don't bring it up more.

Honestly, I see people bring it up every time they bring Geno up. Super good point, though.

 

[Noipoi]

Is Incineroar a popular Pokémon in general? I don’t like him, so I’ve never bothered to see if he is.

I like him!
He's not the most loved by fans but he's got a following, and Japan and Gamefreak themselves seem to like him.
Everyone thought Decidueye would be the most pushed Alola starter but surprisingly it's Incineroar.
In the anime Ash has a Torracat that's going through a character-arc with a rival Incineroar and it's heavily implied it'll evolve into another Incineroar. It's not Greninja levels but Gamefreak likes the wrestle tiger. Not to mention he's based off the popular Japanese wrestler Tiger Mask, they love that guy over there.

 

[KMDP]

There's a fade-out BB Code? Hmm, I learn something new everyday...

There isn't, I faded it out myself.

Well, I used this site.

Start with #D9D9D9 end with #1C1C1C.

 

[Zinith]

OH, I GET IT!!!

A got what KMDP was getting at...

 

[WolfCypher]

I thought it was The Pokemon Company that decides who gets in since their entire job is marketing, advertising, and supervising the use of the franchise and these characters.

 

[Nethermoosen]

They were given the right to use a costume in that game.

And what did that do for square exactly? Like what was the point of that deal?

 

[Will]

Oh boy, judging Banjo's validity by a quote is my favorite time to night to plug why that's both a good and bad thing.

BANJO VS STEVE - A POINTLESS ESSAY

It's so pointless I made my own custom template just to show how dedicated I am for such a pointless discussion.

View attachment 158586

So basically if you didn't read my post from a little while ago, I think Banjo and Steve are the biggest of the triad of Microsoft IPs, with the lowest end being Microsoft's own creation: Master Chief. But who would top out in Smash between the two? I got no ****in' idea I'm not Sakurai and I don't wanna pretend like I know the most probable outcome in a choice; because I don't. I'm not even a legal adult yet, I shouldn't be trusted with these options.
But what I can present is my stupid worthless opinion and a little bit of facts here and there to maybe help some others get their big high IQ brains going.

Spoiler: Banjo

Banjo first appeared in 1998 on the Nintendo 64, probably something you already know. But when Microsoft took that sweet sweet Rare IP, so did his ties with Nintendo. However, with Nintendo and Microsoft being all buddy buddy in recent years, this could be his chance at a new appearance for the first time in a decade.

Spoiler: Pros

What Banjo (and the unrelated Conker and that chick from Perfect Dark) has over all other Microsoft IPs, he does have a significant advantage in. That is his preexisting ties with Nintendo.

As the recent craze of bringing characters that have been requested in the same amount of time that Banjo has disappeared from the face of the planet (Ridley, Simon Belmont, King K. Rool, and possibly more!), that could make his revival all the more imminent if the trend continues. Banjo may have scored really high on the Ballot, which will play a big role in his favor and is probably the biggest make-or-break he has. Many people are confident in his potential results.

Hell, even Phil Spencer said he wouldn't mind putting him in! That's surely a done deal, right?

Spoiler: Cons

Well, not really. Phil Spencer could've likely said the same about any big Microsoft IP, but he was only asked about Banjo specifically. Who knows what would've happened if he was asked to choose what character from Microsoft he would've wanted the most, but that's just his opinion and nothing more... like his tweet. Phil isn't the say all for these types of decisions, and what comes out in the end may not come exactly as Phil expressed his gratitude for.

Also, Banjo Kazooie isn't really as big of a hit in the East as it was in the West. As many as near 2 million units in North America is shaking between 450k to 550k in Japan (thats about 1/4 compared to NA sales). I know, I know, being in the game kind of makes that point obsolete if you see it as such, but it could be a big issue as I will talk about in our next character's descriptions.

Rare owns Banjo, but there are other series that are currently live and could be picked over Banjo. That is, Fulgore from Killer Instinct (or really anyone from that game) or Rash from Battletoads (which was both a character in KI and is in the new Battletoads remake coming next year). And both IPs have made their appearances on Nintendo consoles before, even on separate generations!

Spoiler: Steve

Steve is an unnamed enigma, but Minecraft's official release came out in 2009 on the PC. Microsoft grabbed the IP from Mojang a few years ago, and has been going strong in its advertising, making it one of the alltime best selling games that Microsoft owns. So what's so special about this enigma?

Spoiler: Pros

Let's get the obvious out of the way. Minecraft is huge; really huge. Holy **** it's one of the best selling games period. With over 100 million copies on its belt and continuously rising, this thing is nuts over the globe. This is not only true in the West, but also in the East, where Japan sales of the game have reached millions upon millions on the multiple platforms he has appeared on. Even Japan resident user @Venus of the Desert Bloom mentions accounts of seeing children mention the game.



This is definitely a defining edge over Banjo, which is Minecraft's sheer popularity.

Did I mention multi-platform? Minecraft has made its way from PC, to Xbox, the Playstation, and of course, Nintendo consoles on the Wii U, 3DS, and Switch. Minecraft is everywhere, and if you want a system (and game) seller, Minecraft is the way to go in Smash Bros. I'm not suggesting Sakurai should go the money route, but if he sees fit, the madman may just.

Remember when I mentioned Nintendo and Microsoft being buddy buddy as of late? What game do you think started that? Certainly wasn't Banjo Kazooie. Minecraft and its crossplay feature for both Nintendo and Xbox consoles helped form a friendly relationship. Microsoft may have formed a circle around its game to be used, since its both its best selling and most recent familiar shared property with Nintendo at the moment.

Spoiler: Cons

As I've mentioned before, Steve is an enigma. He's not really a mascot, that goes more towards mob enemies such as the Creeper. It may not be wise to use such a generic avatar. I'm not a personal fan of this argument (due to ultcorrin: being just that), but you have to see both sides to remain truly neutral.

Minecraft may also conflict with the art style, as many as argued it to be too drab or "ugly" for Smash's design.

People are also reluctant to share the same audience as the shunned Minecraft audience, which includes various internet celebrities and waves of children.

Finally, the biggest hitter: the Smash Ballot. Banjo could have scored high, and as we've seen, the Ballot seems to take some type of priority over newer characters in some shape or form. If it's big enough, Minecraft definitely won't have a playable scene.

This is probably the biggest battle of Popular Nostalgia VS Popular Relevancy that I have seen for Smash character dilemma. No character is really a better choice than the other when it comes to how much they can qualify more than others. I can't say one character deserves a slot more than another because saying characters deserve to be in a crossover game is pretty dumb as is. It's mostly down to opinion on what you think.

"But Banjo obviously scored high on the polls! Steve never has a chance!", I hear one guy cry out.

That's what you may think. But remember how people talked about the big "meme" or "impossible" ballots, like Goku or Shrek. Allow me to wrap you in some tinfoil for a moment. Would you believe me if I told you that due to its large audience, Minecraft may have an impactful placing on the polls? Now it may seem pretty out of thought, because even I'm skeptical that enough kids are playing Smash Bros. to flood the market with Minecraft votes, but I don't believe that it's impossible. I'll let you think about that proposal, get a big thonker going on.

I hope my rambling gave some insight or maybe it was a fun read to look into.
or maybe i'm just dumb and wrong and nobody will even read it but who knows

 

[Noipoi]

Which letters stand out the most?

A...S...H...L...E...Y...

oh my god, you cheeky bugger.

 

[DarkFalcon]

True and a good point, but...they were given the complete right to use the image of this character in their game, and allow you to even play as a variation of him. I really don't see how far off that is from just the character, who, remember, Squenix has never been keen about using-and it seems even allowed his use in a game as tiny as Superstar Sega, though I may be wrong about the specifics there, apologies!

I'm just 50/50 on Geno because I know he's heavily requested, and I know Sakurai has wanted him. The only obstacle is SE saying yes. Which to us should be obvious since they aren't using him but I just don't know with SE. Cloud was a shock but he has the absolute bare minimum in the game, and that doesn't look like that has changed since Smash 4.

 

[Luminario]

Remember, all...remember, remember...

The Geno Mii costume...
Yes, this little guy...who got a splash screen and was highlighted...
...just...don't forget this means they have the rights, my friends...
View attachment 159087

Then it turns out Geno is in Smash Ultimate...
As a returning Mii Costume

 

[BlueMagician]

Is Incineroar a popular Pokémon in general? I don’t like him, so I’ve never bothered to see if he is.

It's a bit hard to tell, all the Alola starters are about equal in popularity all things considered. Incineroar is decently popular, more popular recently than initially, I'd say.

 

[Nazyrus]

A...S...H...L...E...Y...

oh my god, you cheeky bugger.

I DIDN'T NOTICE THAT HOLY ****… I bet he is secretly sakurai dropping hints on us now

 

[Nethermoosen]

I like him!
He's not the most loved by fans, but Japan and Gamefreak themselves seem to like him.
Everyone thought Decidueye would be the most pushed Alola starter but surprisingly it's Incineroar.
In the anime Ash has a Torracat that's going through a character-arc with a rival Incineroar and it's heavily implied it'll evolve into another Incineroar. It's not Greninja levels but Gamefreak likes the wrestle tiger. Not to mention he's based off the popular Japanese wrestler Tiger Mask, they love that guy over there.

I see. I tend to get tired of the three starters due to the fame they always have. I go most playthroughs of Pokémon with a whole team of level 1’s I hatched and dump my starter into the PC. I’m a low-key contrarian. Case-in-point: My main has been Olimar since brawl.

 

[Luigi The President]

I'm just 50/50 on Geno because I know he's heavily requested, and I know Sakurai has wanted him. The only obstacle is SE saying yes. Which to us should be obvious since they aren't using him but I just don't know with SE. Cloud was a shock but he has the absolute bare minimum in the game, and that doesn't look like it's changed since Smash 4.

But he has a character slot, and that's really what matters most. They're willing to give over their most iconic character with two entirely different outfits, and a stage devoted to their most iconic game, alongside two music tracks (two, but music tracks nonetheless). They are also willing to allow him to return in Ultimate. (sorry about how subjective FF7's iconic status must be, just my opinion here).

I think they wouldn't mind handing over a relatively obscure character from a game they worked on alongside Nintendo, and let that be that, since he doesn't really need anything else. But I could totally be wrong. Good on you for staying cautious, my friend (seriously)!

 

[Nethermoosen]

Oh boy, judging Banjo's validity by a quote is my favorite time to night to plug why that's both a good and bad thing.

If you mean me, I’m not judging validity. Just possibility. It’s on the table. That’s it. I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t get in.

 

[DevaAshera]

Popularity isn't important for a Gen 7 rep..its about how popular Sakurai thought they'd be..this is the same situation as Greninja, he'd be taking a risk on which Gen7 Pokémon would be liked when choosing one prior to their reveal in their home series.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Then it turns out Geno is in Smash Ultimate...
As a returning Mii Costume

Every Mii Costume returns

"Finally!" someone says "I can finally use Bootleg Chrom, Bootleg K. Rool, and Bootleg Inklings against Real Chrom, Real K. Rool, and Real Inklings!"

 

[KMDP]

A...S...H...L...E...Y...

oh my god, you cheeky bugger.

I DIDN'T NOTICE THAT HOLY ****… I bet he is secretly sakurai dropping hints on us now

YOU HAVE SEEN IT! YOU CAN'T UNSEE IT!

*evil laugh*

 

[Will]

There's this hella cool remix of The Meaning of Truth (aka falcon punch song) and now I really want it in the game now. If gacha can get it, I'm gonna gamble for the anime of it to get it.

If you mean me, I’m not judging validity. Just possibility. It’s on the table. That’s it. I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t get in.

I meant possibility, my brain's just flickering on and off because it's late.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Popularity isn't important for a Gen 7 rep..its about how popular Sakurai thought they'd be..this is the same situation as Greninja, he'd be taking a risk on which Gen7 Pokémon would be liked when choosing one prior to their reveal in their home series.

Exactly, it was good marketing and complete luck that greninja wound up as popular as he was, but he would have been in smash regardless.