Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[XenoWarriorX]

Hell yeah, We few SMT fans gotta stick together. Maybe one day some people might even get SMT V.

Huh. That's strange. i thought there were a lot more SMT fans here.

I know a few friends who would LOVE flynn or Demi-Fiend in smash.

I've only played SMTIV so far, so i'm picking flynn.

It won't. It's a similar scenario to Cloud. Persona is much more popular than SMT (Persona outsells SMT every single time) and is more prominent with spinoffs and other media. Even though Persona isn't prominently on Nintendo systems, a Persona character would still appear in Smash based off of Nintendo's good relationship with Sega and Atlus.

The way I see it, there are three potential SMT/Persona reps: Yu Narukami, Joker, or Jack Frost (hopefully potentially accompanied by Pumpkin Jack).

Hm. I guess you're right. But i dunno, you'd think they would want to at least advertise for a SMT game.

I mean, yes. Persona does well in the states. But i think that had more to do with Atlus marketing Persona REALLY hard.

(also, kinda would want a less obvious choice than the MOST obvious choice. Like, i get Cloud was popular, but putting in less popular certainly wouldn't be bad either. )

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Also if Yu ever got into Smash we’d have a playable character with Johnny Yong Bosch voicing them (and not just an AT).

I’m all for more JYB.

 

[Pakky]

Ridley Rool, Richter, and Simon?

Look at the size of these lads SO MUCH GIRTH.

 

[Momotsuki]

Isabelle isn't a lock-in, but damn she's close to it. The fact that we haven't yet seen her as an AT, the fact that she was a Mii Costume in Smash 4, as were Inkling, Chrom, and King K. Rool, her downright monolithic presence in the current Nintendo landscape, and the classification of Echo Fighters. The writing really seems to be on the wall here. But who knows? Only time will tell.​

 

[TechPowah]

This was from a bit back but

Here's a topic, take a current echo and say how you would Luigify them in the next Smash game.

Fold the normal Staff item into Dark Pit's moveset with his DP Staff, including it becoming stronger when farther away
he should have had that from the beginning, but nah, gets turned into an item...

 

[Ura]

What are you talking about that's a skirt not a pair of trunks

How can a corpse beat anything?

This joke is starting to go on a bit too long

Your hate is pretty sad TBH.

 

[Momotsuki]

Here's another question.

Do you guys feel we still need more villains, or do you think we're good where we are at?

This isn't a "I think X villain should be in Smash" question, I am speaking purely based on quantity, not who that quantity is made up of.

To recap, we have as the general consensus. Some of them aren't full blown villains, yes, but they've mostly prominently been on the "not really a hero" spectrum more often than not. You can still probably give or take a few of these guys if you genuinely don't think one a bad guy, particularly Mewtwo.

I mostly ask because I remember a good chunk of people always wanting more villains in both Brawl and Smash 4's days. With every character returning and a solid 3 new villains to the lineup, do you think that's enough?

Because if I'm being honest, I really don't want another villain beyond what we have. I think this is just the right quantity.

I mean, couldn't R.O.B. be considered a villain as well?​

 

[Soulsaint]

I seem to be one of the few people that actively doesn't want Banjo and Kazooie (anymore). It has mainly to do with Duck Hunt already filling the niche for me and I am personally afraid their inclusion will overshadow them. If they are included I'll live with it though, it's not that I dislike them per se. There arw certainly worse things like Goku

 

[Rikka]

I mean, couldn't R.O.B. be considered a villain as well?​

For the sake of this argument? Or any situation outside of "villains in SSE?" No.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

• Yes to more villains. Most of the best heroes are already represented, so time to get more villains in the roster!
• Gen 6 was the first one I every actually bought, so I have a soft spot for it. I think the Legendaries are fantastic!
• No idea what SMT is

 

[Ura]

I seem to be one of the few people that actively doesn't want Banjo and Kazooie (anymore). It has mainly to do with Duck Hunt already filling the niche for me and I am personally afraid their inclusion will overshadow them. If they are included I'll live with it though, it's not that I dislike them per se. There arw certainly worse things like Goku

I honestly don't see how Dunk Hunt fills Banjo's niche.

Hell I don't even see the two character playing remotely similar.

 

[Pakky]

Here's another question.

Do you guys feel we still need more villains, or do you think we're good where we are at?

This isn't a "I think X villain should be in Smash" question, I am speaking purely based on quantity, not who that quantity is made up of.

To recap, we have as the general consensus. Some of them aren't full blown villains, yes, but they've mostly prominently been on the "not really a hero" spectrum more often than not. You can still probably give or take a few of these guys if you genuinely don't think one a bad guy, particularly Mewtwo.

I mostly ask because I remember a good chunk of people always wanting more villains in both Brawl and Smash 4's days. With every character returning and a solid 3 new villains to the lineup, do you think that's enough?

Because if I'm being honest, I really don't want another villain beyond what we have. I think this is just the right quantity.

Eggman, Porky, Deathborn.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

No idea what SMT is

"Shin Megami Tensei is a post-apocalyptic role-playing video game developed and published by Atlus. Originally released for the Super Famicom in 1992 in Japan, it has been ported to multiple systems and eventually released in the West for iOS in 2014. It is the third game in the Megami Tensei series and the first in the central Shin Megami Tensei series."

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei

 

[NintendoKnight]

Has anyone heard of this leak? I find it weird that he doesn't say where this source is coming from.

"No trophies have been shown in Ultimate"?

It's kinda obvious that this game will still retain trophies. It's the gimmick of the game's collectables and coincides SUPERBLY with these:

The amiibo are essentially real world Smash Bros trophies. The concept isn't leaving, I'm certain of that.

 

[Pakky]

I seem to be one of the few people that actively doesn't want Banjo and Kazooie (anymore). It has mainly to do with Duck Hunt already filling the niche for me and I am personally afraid their inclusion will overshadow them. If they are included I'll live with it though, it's not that I dislike them per se. There arw certainly worse things like Goku

I've never gotten this... Is this a meme?

 

[Dixie Kong]

We better have a Chunky Kong trophy this time.

 

[Zeox]

Here's another question.

Do you guys feel we still need more villains, or do you think we're good where we are at?

This isn't a "I think X villain should be in Smash" question, I am speaking purely based on quantity, not who that quantity is made up of.

To recap, we have as the general consensus. Some of them aren't full blown villains, yes, but they've mostly prominently been on the "not really a hero" spectrum more often than not. You can still probably give or take a few of these guys if you genuinely don't think one a bad guy, particularly Mewtwo.

I mostly ask because I remember a good chunk of people always wanting more villains in both Brawl and Smash 4's days. With every character returning and a solid 3 new villains to the lineup, do you think that's enough?

Because if I'm being honest, I really don't want another villain beyond what we have. I think this is just the right quantity.

I will always ask for villains, mostly because they are usually my favorites, and c'mon, we have over 60 good guys, asking for more villains is always gonna be a thing...
And I will keep asking until the original 12 characters from smash 64 have a villain!

 

[Ura]

We better have a Chunky Kong trophy this time.

You're not thinking big enough.

We better get a Chunky echo.

 

[Momotsuki]

"No trophies have been shown in Ultimate"?

It's kinda obvious that this game will still retain trophies. It's the gimmick of the game's collectables and coincides SUPERBLY with these:

The amiibo are essentially real world Smash Bros trophies. The concept isn't leaving, I'm certain of that.

Speaking of amiibo, will my Inkling Girl amiibo for the Wii U Splatoon title work in Smash Ultimate?​

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I hope that, like Melee, there are original models for trophies.

There was some of that in 4 with Classic Mega Man getting HD 3D models for the first time but most of the stuff ends up being ported from recent games.

 

[Momotsuki]

We better have a Chunky Kong trophy this time.

Maybe we should just have Sakurai totally scrap Smash Ultimate and start over. The game will have Chunky Kong as the sole playable character with over 79.4 centillion alternate costumes.​

 

[BluePikmin11]

If a Persona character gets into the game, Yu Narukami is very likely. Dude is the poster child of the Persona series, and I'd say he's analogous to Marth's status in the Fire Emblem. Persona 4 was released in July 2008, and after a decade later Yu Narukami and the Persona 4 cast are still in games, with the most recent being Blazblue Cross Tag Battle, which released about three months ago. Persona 4 recieved a remake in 2012, has three prominent spinoffs in Persona 4 Arena (2012) and the remake of that game, Persona 4 Arena Ultimax (2013), and Person 4 Dancing All Night (2015), which was so popular that Atlus decided to make dancing games for both Persona 3 and Persona 5, and the Persona Q series, of which the first released in 2014, and is receiving a sequel next year. Lets not forget the two anime series, based off of the original game (aired 2011-2012) and it's remake (aired 2014). Using approximations from VGChartz, the total sales of these games (minus Cross Tag Battle because it's not solely a Persona game) total 4.34 million.

There's a reason people joke about Atlas milking Persona 4, because they do. The debate of Joker vs. Yu Narukami ultimately comes down to whether Atlas wants to put in their tried and true, or the new and popular. I'd personally lean towards Joker based on how well Persona 5 sold (the highest out of any Persona game) and it's popularity in the West, with it receiving mass praise and accolades, but I definitely wouldn't discount Yu Narukami

That is a fair argument, Yu definitely has bigger significance as of now. But... When it comes to franchises with changing protagonists, I think it will ultimately come down to is which protagonist ends up being more requested.

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/20/sakurai-x-nomura-creator-interview-2016-part-one/

Nomura: It was an opportunity for Cloud to appear in Smash, how could I turn it down?

Sakurai: This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. [TN1] I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try.

Nomura: When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all.

Sakurai: But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are.

I think whichever protagonist ends up being more popular when DLC comes will be the one chosen. With Persona 5 gaining more popularity than, there is a decent chance that Joker might overshadow Yu in terms of requests when the time comes. Even Sakurai himself praised Persona 5 in one Famitsu column, loving the stylish menu UI. Should the requests of Joker be higher, I think Sakurai would favor Joker over Yu, if a Persona character is considered at all.

 

[SmashingXan2]

Speaking of amiibo, will my Inkling Girl amiibo for the Wii U Splatoon title work in Smash Ultimate?​

Yes, all amiibo will

 

[NintendoKnight]

Speaking of amiibo, will my Inkling Girl amiibo for the Wii U Splatoon title work in Smash Ultimate?​

Spoiler: In a word, yes

Edit: 'd

 

[Soulsaint]

I honestly don't see how Dunk Hunt fills Banjo's niche.

Hell I don't even see the two character playing remotely similar.

I fail to see how you cannot see the similarities between the two to be honest.

Offcourse they would play differently, that was not what i meant with niche. They are most definately similar in concept though. In the same way that yooka Laylee is.

So FOR ME Duck Hunt is enough. I no longer care that much for Banjo and i much rather see other characters, even those that I know even less (like Isaac) fill a spot before them.

 

[Momotsuki]

Yes, all amiibo will

Yo, thanks for that. ​

 

[Megadoomer]

Here's another question.

Do you guys feel we still need more villains, or do you think we're good where we are at?

This isn't a "I think X villain should be in Smash" question, I am speaking purely based on quantity, not who that quantity is made up of.

To recap, we have as the general consensus. Some of them aren't full blown villains, yes, but they've mostly prominently been on the "not really a hero" spectrum more often than not. You can still probably give or take a few of these guys if you genuinely don't think one a bad guy, particularly Mewtwo.

I mostly ask because I remember a good chunk of people always wanting more villains in both Brawl and Smash 4's days. With every character returning and a solid 3 new villains to the lineup, do you think that's enough?

Because if I'm being honest, I really don't want another villain beyond what we have. I think this is just the right quantity.

I wouldn't mind one or two more villains. While I strongly question some of those examples (Wario was only evil in his first game, Dark Pit joined the good guys in his only appearance, Meta Knight's usually on the side of good with his portrayal in Kirby Super Star being an issue with translation), K. Rool and Ridley are good choices, and Dark Samus is an added bonus.

I'd like to see at least one more villain, whether it's a third party example like Heihachi from Tekken, or another Nintendo one like Captain Syrup from Wario or Dark Matter/Marx from Kirby. (at least they're unambiguously evil, as opposed to Dedede, who's just greedy) Still, it's not like they're 100% necessary.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I fail to see how you cannot see the similarities between the two to be honest.

Offcourse they would play differently, that was not what i meant with niche. They are most definately similar in concept though. In the same way that yooka Laylee is.

So FOR ME Duck Hunt is enough. I no longer care that much for Banjo and i much rather see other characters, even those that I know even less (like Isaac) fill a spot before them.

Was Banjo-Tooie compatible with the NES Zapper? Did Banjo and Kazooie have to team up with some gunslingers to defeat Grunty?
Seriously, this is one of the STUPIDEST arguments against a character I've ever heard.

 

[DevaAshera]

I'll give you Roy, but Lucas?

Lucas and Roy aren’t really clones, especially Lucas. They probably brought those two pack for nostalgia tbh. I see one or two packs happening, but they’ll probably focus one newer characters (Rex, Spring Man, Three Houses character) and fab requests that maybe didn’t make it (Banjo, Crash).

Roy and Lucas are both still heavily based on Marth & Ness, particularly Roy who is really only different now due to retaining his Melee moves that Marth abandoned. They are similar in about the same ways Chrom is to Roy.
I still see Echoes as DLC, it'd be easy money.
Naturally there will be some unique newcomers too though (though I still honestly doubt Crash..his relevance is only due to remakes of his original games, they haven't proven he'll stay in the limelight yet with a new title)

 

[ZephyrZ]

On the topic of "villains", I can't be the only one who counts Donkey Kong, right? Like, I know our current DK isn't the same one that kidnapped Pauline way back when, but that's still were he has its roots. Heck, is new cargo grab is even a throwback to when she was kidnapped. It's the original arcade game that made that Ape's design so iconic in the first place, so I think it's fair to count him as both a "good guy" and a "bad guy".

I know I'm going to have a bunch of DKC fans get at my throat for this, but that's just how I think most people, especially really casual fans, see him. I know it's how I still saw him when I first got into Smash.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Just wondering, how many people here expect the "predictable" outcome of a few unique newcomers, all of them being ballot choices like Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid, etc. Right now, this is what I generally see of Smashboards speculation right now.

How much confidence do you have on this outcome? Why so?

Do you expect your predictions for Smash Ultimate to be easily subverted by Sakurai?

The second question in particular is what I would appreciate an in-depth response for.

Oh, Blue...You know that predictions are something most of us are terrible at.

I've known for a while that Sakurai runs under his own rules. I could be generous and say that putting Ridley and K.Rool (and Daisy) on my first bingo card was me predicting them, but I honestly didn't expect most of the newcomers we have. The only one I really would have put money on was Inkling. I did have much higher hopes for K.Rool than any of the others, but I was also convinced that he wouldn't have been shown off this early. Simon was all because of leaks, Richter came out of nowhere, and I didn't really see them putting in Chrom or Dark Samus, as obvious echoes as they are.

So do I expect my predictions to be subverted? Absolutely. I don't even know what to expect...

I could easily see Isaac and Geno being added due to their popularity. But I could just as easily see them considered really obscure and made into assists. Isabelle is a very obvious echo due to her popularity. She's also well represented with her assist, so he may keep it. Or she may get an entirely unique moveset. Skull Kid seems likely lately based on the fact that Zelda's been neglected and we have a new replacement assist from Majora's mask. Or he'll keep his assist or even be cut wholesale. Banjo has huge popularity to make it in. And is from a dead series which has been utterly upstaged by Minecraft. If we even get a rep from a direct competitor. Shadow'd make a great echo sionce he's pretty popular. But Sonic's moveset is based more around the classic games, and the classic Sonic cast is more recognisable to non-fans, which looks good for Tails instead. Or neither.

I think the only characters I'm really banking on at this point would be Dixie (Dark Samus was added as an easy echo after Ridley, so she'd be in the same circumstances, especially now that Chrom's shown they can have more than a minor animation difference) and Isabelle. I'm guessing that there are some other surprises, but I can't depend on just popularity - I thought Ashley was a shoo-in so the last direct caught me off guard. It is also a bit disappointing to try to predict as well...none of the current big names like Isaac, Geno, or Banjo really excite me that much. My wanted characters run the gamut from small chance (Tails, Skull Kid) to no-chance-in-hell (Dovahkiin, Urbosa, Midna as a Zelda echo)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Speaking of amiibos, what character that currently have amiibos could make the jump?

Chibi-Robo...? Maybe

 

[Soulsaint]

I've never gotten this... Is this a meme?

Not for me it isn't. I like Banjo, I like Duck Hunt duo. I just no longer really care that much for them after I got them. I guess my nostalgia for the games isn't strong enough. I usually tend to favor characters that I felt were missing rather than character I personally wanted. Ridley and K.rool for example, I didn't grow up with either of them and I still thought they shouldn't be included. I did play Banjo Kazooie back in the day, but I guess I just don't feel as strongly for them as I do for other characters. Especially not after Duck Hunt got in. The first thing I thought was that they worked together like them, and I just can't see how no one else couldve yad that reaction when they were reveiled.

That is a fair argument, Yu definitely has bigger significance as of now. But... When it comes to franchises with changing protagonists, I think it will ultimately come down to is which protagonist ends up being more requested.

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/20/sakurai-x-nomura-creator-interview-2016-part-one/

Nomura: It was an opportunity for Cloud to appear in Smash, how could I turn it down?

Sakurai: This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. [TN1] I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try.

Nomura: When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all.

Sakurai: But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are.

I think whichever protagonist ends up being more popular when DLC comes will be the one chosen. With Persona 5 gaining more popularity than, there is a decent chance that Joker might overshadow Yu in terms of requests when the time comes. Even Sakurai himself praised Persona 5 in one Famitsu column, loving the stylish menu UI. Should the requests of Joker be higher, I think Sakurai would favor Joker over Yu, if a Persona character is considered at all.

Cloud is really recognisable, but the same could have been said for Vivi. But since he is not the lead he had less chance already. But i still think he wouldve been great representation because he looks like the classic Black mage

Was Banjo-Tooie compatible with the NES Zapper? Did Banjo and Kazooie have to team up with some gunslingers to defeat Grunty?
Seriously, this is one of the STUPIDEST arguments against a character I've ever heard.

It's NOT an argument against the character, it's just my PERSONAL feelings about the character. And again it was not at all about their moveset even

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Hmm, well, kinda already filled the reptile niche back in the original Smash. Guess we'd better axe off then. After all, one reptile is enough.

 

[Pakky]

I wouldn't mind one or two more villains. While I strongly question some of those examples (Wario was only evil in his first game, Dark Pit joined the good guys in his only appearance, Meta Knight's usually on the side of good with his portrayal in Kirby Super Star being an issue with translation), K. Rool and Ridley are good choices, and Dark Samus is an added bonus.

I'd like to see at least one more villain, whether it's a third party example like Heihachi from Tekken, or another Nintendo one like Captain Syrup from Wario or Dark Matter/Marx from Kirby. (at least they're unambiguously evil, as opposed to Dedede, who's just greedy) Still, it's not like they're 100% necessary.

EGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gasp MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rikka]

I would be the opposite, that most casual fans do not see Donkey Kong as a villain.

 

[Ignoritus]

People keep bringing up the "heroes vs. villains" thing, yet the trailer that seems to back it is actually named "Rivals" and includes Kirby going up against Meta Knight who is decidedly non-villainous. I think it makes a lot more sense when you consider it as a "Heroes vs. their Rivals" theme rather than a "Hero vs. Evil Villains" theme. Under that mindset characters like Meta-Knight, Dark Pit, Mewtwo, and Wario all work despite not being major franchise villains.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Comparing Banjo to Duck Hunt because they're an animal duo is absurd. Guess we didn't need K. Rool because we have Bowser. Or Mega Man because we have Samus.

 

[Deleted member]

Banjo-Kazooie would just be an Yooka-Laylee clone

 

[BluePikmin11]

It's pretty interesting to talk about Yu and Joker, the latter in particular, because this year, Persona is at a phase where the 5th installment is getting ****ed with tons of new and upcoming spinoffs, to a point where it may quickly overshadow Persona 4 as the most popular game in the series worldwide by the end of this year.

Personally, I would love Yu, mostly because Persona 4 is my second favorite game of all time, but I see Joker as the bigger possibility, who could be the protagonist Smash fans will ask for the most when DLC is considered.