Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Deleted member]

Unpopular opinion: a Persona character has more chances than what people give them credit.

Here's another question.

Do you guys feel we still need more villains, or do you think we're good where we are at?

This isn't a "I think X villain should be in Smash" question, I am speaking purely based on quantity, not who that quantity is made up of.

To recap, we have as the general consensus. Some of them aren't full blown villains, yes, but they've mostly prominently been on the "not really a hero" spectrum more often than not. You can still probably give or take a few of these guys if you genuinely don't think one a bad guy, particularly Mewtwo.

I mostly ask because I remember a good chunk of people always wanting more villains in both Brawl and Smash 4's days. With every character returning and a solid 3 new villains to the lineup, do you think that's enough?

Because if I'm being honest, I really don't want another villain beyond what we have. I think this is just the right quantity.

I only really feel that we need a FE villain still

 

[PlugMeister]

Just to make sure, we're talking about Brandy Kopp, right? Because Aya Hillis wasn't in Smash 4.

Yes.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Unpopular opinion: a Persona character has more chances than what people give them credit.

If Sega get's anything besides a potential echo in Shadow, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Yu or Joker showed up from the Atlus side of things from them.

 

[Deleted member]

Unpopular opinion: a Persona character has more chances than what people give them credit.

That's a curious one, I'd wager it's mainly unpopular because it rarely comes up.
What gives you an idea that there'd be more chances for Persona representation than people would normally think? Is it Cloud's inclusion or something?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Honestly? Isabelle and Bandana Dee I feel are the nost recent icons that are fighting for a spot. They're in direct competition with each other as the last of the newer characters that may be added.

Honestly? I see Isabelle as more likely over BWD simply because of the Echo status she can have plus being more prominent and maybe popular.

As much as I don't like to admit that.

 

[Deleted member]

This is off the beaten path, but I feel like neither Codec Conversations nor Palutena's Guidance are going to be returning. The Japanese voice actor for Colonel Campbell has unfortunately passed away, and the English voice actress for Palutena in Smash 4 has recently retired her role as that character specifically.

Palutena was recast for Smash 4, so I don't think that's an issue. They'll just find a new English VA if need be. As for the Colonel, I think they should just re-use the calls from Brawl that can still be used (ones that haven't been made out of date due to design changes and don't mention Brawl by name), and for the new characters, use Otacon and Mei Ling exclusively. Saves money and you keep the Easter Egg.

Or you port over all the old calls, update none of them and for all new characters, Palutena's Guidance will use the DLC/placeholder call, and Codec can have a spliced one: "Snake, you know who that is?" "No." *call ends*

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I think that after K. Rool, Dark Samus and Ridley, we are set. Anymore would just be a bonus.

What I think we need right now is a female newcomer. Daisy is all alone in that regard.

Inkling and, depending on your mindset, Dark Samus

 

[Deleted member]

That's a curious one, I'd wager it's mainly unpopular because it rarely comes up.
What gives you an idea that there'd be more chances for Persona representation than people would normally think? Is it Cloud's inclusion or something?

Atlus still has nothing despite their close relationship with Nintendo and Persona is their most popular series.
Back in Smash 4, I wouldn't have considered it a possibility due to the main seried disappearing from Nintendo consoles but with Cloud, that's a non-issue.
Personally, I think Yu Narukami is the most likely out of all of them simply due to his popularity. Stands Personas also lemd themselves to a very interesting moveset that just writes itself so I can see Sakurai seeing the potential in that.

 

[Deleted member]

So...a Hat in Time is coming to Switch.

Hat Kid is now a new DLC pipe dream for me. I will never ask Sakurai for anything ever again if that happens. It'll never, ever happen, but gosh darn it let me dream, lol.

 

[Sharkarat]

Here's another question.

Do you guys feel we still need more villains, or do you think we're good where we are at?

This isn't a "I think X villain should be in Smash" question, I am speaking purely based on quantity, not who that quantity is made up of.

To recap, we have as the general consensus. Some of them aren't full blown villains, yes, but they've mostly prominently been on the "not really a hero" spectrum more often than not. You can still probably give or take a few of these guys if you genuinely don't think one a bad guy, particularly Mewtwo.

I mostly ask because I remember a good chunk of people always wanting more villains in both Brawl and Smash 4's days. With every character returning and a solid 3 new villains to the lineup, do you think that's enough?

Because if I'm being honest, I really don't want another villain beyond what we have. I think this is just the right quantity.

Don't think we need more villain, but it's mostly because we're most missing small-name ones.
B.Shadow/Medusa/Hades/Marx Just aren't that big that they feel missing imo.
We need to go third party to get actually Iconic bad guys like Nightmare (SC), and Heihachi.

 

[Paperchampion23]

You forgot Greninja.

Except that's Pokemon, not Xenoblade or ARMS.

 

[Untouch]

Nintendo Dream (a magazine in japan, I don't think it is affiliated with Nintendo though, can't actually find any info on this) released the full results of a poll related to the most popular gen 7 pokemon. I think the article itself is pretty old (again can't find real info) but only had the top 10.
https://www.ndw.jp/pokemon-ranking/
I don't think this really impacts what gen 7 pokemon we're getting (as the roster was long decided by the time this poll took place) but it's still interesting.

Here are some of the results of characters I see people say have a chance for smash.

• #3 Primerina
• #5: Dusk Lycanroc
• #7: Silvally
• #12: Incineroar
• #15: Decidueye
• #17: Goliospod
• #23: Nihilego
• #24: Pheromosa
• #27: Midnight Lycanroc
• #30: Tsareena
• #41: Day Lycanroc
• #43: Necrozma
• #49: Kommo-o
• #56: Tapu-Koko
• #76: Buzzwole

POUR ONE OUT TO THE FALLEN COMRADES

• #2: Mimikyu
• #4: A. Vulpix
• #6: A. Raichu
• #10: Togedamaru
• #14: Pyukumuku
• #20: Bewear
• #32: Lunala
• #40: Solgaleo
• #51: Marshadow
• #54: A. Exeggutor

4 out of the top 10 are already pokeball pokemon, which is interesting.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Japan have terrible sense of taste putting Buzzwole so low

 

[Deleted member]

Atlus still has nothing despite their close relationship with Nintendo and Persona is their most popular series.
Back in Smash 4, I wouldn't have considered it a possibility due to the main seried disappearing from Nintendo consoles but with Cloud, that's a non-issue.
Personally, I think Yu Narukami is the most likely out of all of them simply due to his popularity. Stands Personas also lemd themselves to a very interesting moveset that just writes itself so I can see Sakurai seeing the potential in that.

I see, thanks for the clarification.

So...a Hat in Time is coming to Switch.

Hat Kid is now a new DLC pipe dream for me. I will never ask Sakurai for anything ever again if that happens. It'll never, ever happen, but gosh darn it let me dream, lol.

Hat Kid would be a wonderful alternative to Shantae as an indie rep for sure. That said, they might need to branch out the franchise a lot more for it to be possible.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Nintendo Dream (a magazine in japan, I don't think it is affiliated with Nintendo though, can't actually find any info on this) released the full results of a poll related to the most popular gen 7 pokemon. I think the article itself is pretty old (again can't find real info) but only had the top 10.
https://www.ndw.jp/pokemon-ranking/
I don't think this really impacts what gen 7 pokemon we're getting (as the roster was long decided by the time this poll took place) but it's still interesting.

Here are some of the results of characters I see people say have a chance for smash.

• #3 Primerina
• #5: Dusk Lycanroc
• #7: Silvally
• #12: Incineroar
• #15: Decidueye
• #17: Goliospod
• #23: Nihilego
• #24: Pheromosa
• #27: Midnight Lycanroc
• #30: Tsareena
• #41: Day Lycanroc
• #43: Necrozma
• #49: Kommo-o
• #56: Tapu-Koko
• #76: Buzzwole

POUR ONE OUT TO THE FALLEN COMRADES

• #2: Mimikyu
• #4: A. Vulpix
• #6: A. Raichu
• #10: Togedamaru
• #14: Pyukumuku
• #20: Bewear
• #32: Lunala
• #40: Solgaleo
• #51: Marshadow
• #54: A. Exeggutor

4 out of the top 10 are already pokeball pokemon, which is interesting.

People say Incineroar but man would Silvally be an infinitely better choice.

He's even more popular in Japan so that has to count for something.

 

[Starbound]

Just wondering, how many people here expect the "predictable" outcome of a few unique newcomers, all of them being ballot choices like Isaac, Geno, Skull Kid, etc. Right now, this is what I generally see of Smashboards speculation right now.

How much confidence do you have on this outcome? Why so?

Do you expect your predictions for Smash Ultimate to be easily subverted by Sakurai?

The second question in particular is what I would appreciate an in-depth response for.

I'm fully expecting my expectations to be subverted, which is why my expectations are low.

My lowest expectations are Incineroar, Isabelle and Ken being the final fighters. At max, I am looking at up to 4 more in addition to them.

I am not confident that we will get every ballot choice, but I am confident that every choice will be based on ballot popularity to some extent.

So...a Hat in Time is coming to Switch.

Hat Kid is now a new DLC pipe dream for me. I will never ask Sakurai for anything ever again if that happens. It'll never, ever happen, but gosh darn it let me dream, lol.

Holy crap I am so excited for Hat in TIme now! I played it a bit on Xbox and fell in love with it.

The Switch library is awesome!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People say Incineroar but man would Silvally be an infinitely better choice.

He's even more popular in Japan so that has to count for something.

Silvally would only slightly disappoint me as it was pretty disappointing in SM but it'd be neat, I'll even make a player tag called Nina just for if I play it cause, y'know, chimera

 

[RileyXY1]

The #1 for that poll is Rowlet by the way. But, popularity is a non factor. Since SM was released in 2016, a year after the project plan was finished, then the Gen 7 newcomer (if there is one) will be decided purely by concept art just like Greninja was.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo Dream (a magazine in japan, I don't think it is affiliated with Nintendo though, can't actually find any info on this) released the full results of a poll related to the most popular gen 7 pokemon. I think the article itself is pretty old (again can't find real info) but only had the top 10.
https://www.ndw.jp/pokemon-ranking/
I don't think this really impacts what gen 7 pokemon we're getting (as the roster was long decided by the time this poll took place) but it's still interesting.

Here are some of the results of characters I see people say have a chance for smash.

• #3 Primerina
• #5: Dusk Lycanroc
• #7: Silvally
• #12: Incineroar
• #15: Decidueye
• #17: Goliospod
• #23: Nihilego
• #24: Pheromosa
• #27: Midnight Lycanroc
• #30: Tsareena
• #41: Day Lycanroc
• #43: Necrozma
• #49: Kommo-o
• #56: Tapu-Koko
• #76: Buzzwole

POUR ONE OUT TO THE FALLEN COMRADES

• #2: Mimikyu
• #4: A. Vulpix
• #6: A. Raichu
• #10: Togedamaru
• #14: Pyukumuku
• #20: Bewear
• #32: Lunala
• #40: Solgaleo
• #51: Marshadow
• #54: A. Exeggutor

4 out of the top 10 are already pokeball pokemon, which is interesting.

Yeah, looking at it now, I think Gen 7 has my least favorite batch of Pokemon period. There are some neat ones, but none of the ones that I like I'd place among my favorite Pokemon. Shame.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Atlus still has nothing despite their close relationship with Nintendo and Persona is their most popular series.
Back in Smash 4, I wouldn't have considered it a possibility due to the main seried disappearing from Nintendo consoles but with Cloud, that's a non-issue.
Personally, I think Yu Narukami is the most likely out of all of them simply due to his popularity. Stands Personas also lemd themselves to a very interesting moveset that just writes itself so I can see Sakurai seeing the potential in that.

I do not think Yu will be on Sakurai's radar, unless he's a notable gaming icon (like frogger or leon kennedy, which Yu I feel isn't) or highly requested in the Smash 4 ballot (Which find to be unlikely. At best, I can see the P5 protagonist possibly being considered for DLC since the requests of him have been rising recently.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Silvally would only slightly disappoint me as it was pretty disappointing in SM but it'd be neat, I'll even make a player tag called Nina just for if I play it cause, y'know, chimera

I just think the multi-type moveset it could potentially have could be amazing!

You could literally incorporate all 18 types into his/her moveset as there are definitely enough attacks for it. Just would be cool to get a pokemon who can essentially fill all of the type voids.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

People say Incineroar but man would Silvally be an infinitely better choice.

He's even more popular in Japan so that has to count for something.

Huh, I run the Silvally thread and it's the first I've heard of it.

I just put it up because I thought there was a lot of cool moveset potential.

Interesting to see Primarina is the belle of the ball rather than King or Arrow.

No surprise to see the Borb on top over all.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Here's another question.

Do you guys feel we still need more villains, or do you think we're good where we are at?

This isn't a "I think X villain should be in Smash" question, I am speaking purely based on quantity, not who that quantity is made up of.

To recap, we have as the general consensus. Some of them aren't full blown villains, yes, but they've mostly prominently been on the "not really a hero" spectrum more often than not. You can still probably give or take a few of these guys if you genuinely don't think one a bad guy, particularly Mewtwo.

I mostly ask because I remember a good chunk of people always wanting more villains in both Brawl and Smash 4's days. With every character returning and a solid 3 new villains to the lineup, do you think that's enough?

Because if I'm being honest, I really don't want another villain beyond what we have. I think this is just the right quantity.

I think we're at least past the point where we really need more villains, in the past we didn't need them just because we needed more characters of a certain archetype, but also because there were some seriously great villains out there who had been passed over in the past. With Ridley and K. Rool out of the way the villain options aren't quite as prominent, there are still some good and solid ones (I'm still hoping for Skull Kid), but as nice as some of them would be to have none of them feel like we desperately need them. If this is the end of the line for villain inclusions I don't think we'll hear people argue that we desperately need more of them anymore.

In general I don't think any character should be forced in just because they fulfill a certain criteria, doesn't matter if we're talking about a villain, female, retro or whatever character, whether we need more of a certain archetype depends entirely on the options that are out there. With Smash 4 we needed more female characters because there were great options out there, for Ultimate we needed more villains because there were great options out there, basically characters still need to stand on their own legs and not just rely on their role.

 

[Fenriraga]

I'm all for more anti heroes and villains in the lineup, vareity is the spice of life and Smash has been mostly heroic characters for it's lifespan.

I can understand that, but I feel too many can still quite easily spoil the soup.

Smash is a celebration of video games. And Villains are an important part of any video game, they're literally essential in many cases. But I feel we should focus more on celebrating the heroes more than the villains. Mostly because the hero is who the game focuses on.

I dunno, I'm kinda stumbling over my words here. I guess I just mean I think heroes should always take priority. Especially because a new hero can often mean a new series. Can't really add the villain of a new series before the hero.

Plus, Bosses help scratch the villains itch even more.

I think that after K. Rool, Dark Samus and Ridley, we are set. Anymore would just be a bonus.

What I think we need right now is a female newcomer. Daisy is all alone in that regard.

Been mentioned a few times already, but I still consider Inkling a female newcomer since unlike Corrin or Robin, she's the default. But yeah, another female is never a bad thing.

Unpopular opinion: a Persona character has more chances than what people give them credit.

I only really feel that we need a FE villain still

But Grima is already playable

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I actually really like a lot of Gen 7 Pokemon.

Wishiwashi, Golisopod, Araquanid, Buzzwole, Vikavolt, Alolan Sandslash, Alolan Muk, Alolan Exeggutor, Decidueye, Turtonator

Some of those made it to my top 10 favorite pokemon

 

[Untouch]

I wonder if Rowlet can break the (fan made) rule of only having final starter evos, it's very popular and always has been.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I wonder if Rowlet can break the (fan made) rule of only having final starter evos, it's very popular and always has been.

But the roster was decided before the public saw Rowlet and were given the opportunity to make that decision

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I just think the multi-type moveset it could potentially have could be amazing!

You could literally incorporate all 18 types into his/her moveset as there are definitely enough attacks for it. Just would be cool to get a pokemon who can essentially fill all of the type voids.

Yeah, reject Arceus would definitely be cool.

No hate. I find the concept of it being a failed attempt at recreating God pretty morbid amd interesting.

Also, Gladeon's theme is ****ing superb

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Personally, Gen 6 was more forgettable than gen 7.

Gen 7 i can at least remember.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Reposted from Type:Null/ Silvally support thread

I can see two ways that the Synthetic Pokemon could work, both of them working in radically different ways.

A. RKS System
This variant would focus entirely on Silvally and it's type changing mechanic. Like Shulk's Monado Arts, Silvally could change its memory disks to change the properties of it's attacks, granting them more range, better shield damage or other effects.

B. Power Limiter
This variant would have both "stages" in play. At 0% it is Type: Null who is very heavy and slow. After enough damage is dealt to its limiter helmet (through foes attacking or using headbutt type attacks), it breaks, causing it to reveal its true power as Silvally who hits as hard but is now much faster. But it is also lighter so there's a trade-off to consider.

 

[Fenriraga]

I wonder if Rowlet can break the (fan made) rule of only having final starter evos, it's very popular and always has been.

?

Even still I don't think Rowlett's popularity was well established enough by the point the roster was finalized. It would really just be whoever Sakurai felt like picking.

 

[Sigran101]

I really feel like people are sleeping on Black Knight as an Ike echoe.

For one, there's the popularity poll. His vote was split 4 ways between PoR and RD versions of himself and his alter ego. If you add them all together he places 22 out of over 700 characters. He placed above Owain, Eliwood, Anna, Both versions of Tiki, and even a version of Marth, not to mention many fates and awakening favorites.

For two, he has been huge in heroes, giving exposure to new players who haven't played the telius games, and he was featured prominently in that live action FE heroes trailer (sorry I don't have a link). It had Hector, Lyn, Roy, Ike, Lucina, and Black Knight. That selection really shows his Calibur. He also had more screen time than any of the others except maybe Hector.

Third, he was given a Mii costume in 4 with assets built from the ground up. I know other characters had this and aren't in ultimate, but this helps.

He's just about the only recurring fire emblem villain and is Ike's definitive rival. He also makes perfect sense as an Ike echoe as they were taught by the same master and wield sister swords which are pallet swaps of each other. Black knight doesn't even have to be slower as he is known for being unnaturally fast for his armor weight due to the goddess's blessing. He is actually faster than Ike. This would also explain why Chrom is a Roy echoe instead of Ike like everyone assumed he would be.

Lastly, he was removed from the background of the castle siege stage and replaced with a generic enemy soldier. This could easily be a very good sign.

If Sakurai's wants an FE villain, or just an easy villain echoe, Black Knight has a great chance.

 

[Fenriraga]

Personally, Gen 6 was more forgettable than gen 7.

Gen 7 i can at least remember.

Of course you can, because Gen 7 was the last one you played.

Sheesh, Pokemon fans are worse than Zelda fans with the whole "This new game is great so that means the last one wasn't that great" trend. I remember everyone LOVING Gen 6. And this is coming from a VERY casual Pokemon player.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

What other Gen 7 'mon looks like it could be an interesting fighter? Buzzwole is a given, but are there any others?

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Lastly, he was removed from the background of the castle siege stage and replaced with a generic enemy soldier. This could easily be a very good sign.

okay i need to be the one to say this,



THAT WAS JUST A RED STATUE IN THE BACKGROUND, NOT BLACK KNIGHT HIMSELF.

Of course you can, because Gen 7 was the last one you played.

Sheesh, Pokemon fans are worse than Zelda fans with the whole "This new game is great so that means the last one wasn't that great" trend. I remember everyone LOVING Gen 6. And this is coming from a VERY casual Pokemon player.

What the **** are you on about? I've always hated Gen 6 when it came out.

Like, people say Gen 5 was disappointing, but i at least thought there was a decent amount of good pokemon in there.

Gen 6? total dumpster fire from the start. :^)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So...a Hat in Time is coming to Switch.

Hat Kid is now a new DLC pipe dream for me. I will never ask Sakurai for anything ever again if that happens. It'll never, ever happen, but gosh darn it let me dream, lol.

I see, thanks for the clarification.


Hat Kid would be a wonderful alternative to Shantae as an indie rep for sure. That said, they might need to branch out the franchise a lot more for it to be possible.

The ending of A Hat In Time is open-ended enough (well, the whole game feels like one of many adventures Hat Kid went through) that it can easily get a sequel, so we'll see how viable she'll become over time.

We need to go third party to get actually Iconic bad guys like Nightmare (SC), and Heihachi.

You say that, but somehow forget about Dr. Eggman. He's THE missing third-party villain that hasn't gotten much in Smash.

 

[Vycoul]

Here's another question.

Do you guys feel we still need more villains, or do you think we're good where we are at?

This isn't a "I think X villain should be in Smash" question, I am speaking purely based on quantity, not who that quantity is made up of.
I mostly ask because I remember a good chunk of people always wanting more villains in both Brawl and Smash 4's days. With every character returning and a solid 3 new villains to the lineup, do you think that's enough?

I never really thought Smash needed villains per se, it's just that the two most glaring character omissions in Smash 4's roster happened to be villains.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Nintendo Dream (a magazine in japan, I don't think it is affiliated with Nintendo though, can't actually find any info on this) released the full results of a poll related to the most popular gen 7 pokemon. I think the article itself is pretty old (again can't find real info) but only had the top 10.
https://www.ndw.jp/pokemon-ranking/
I don't think this really impacts what gen 7 pokemon we're getting (as the roster was long decided by the time this poll took place) but it's still interesting.

Here are some of the results of characters I see people say have a chance for smash.

• #3 Primerina
• #5: Dusk Lycanroc
• #7: Silvally
• #12: Incineroar
• #15: Decidueye
• #17: Goliospod
• #23: Nihilego
• #24: Pheromosa
• #27: Midnight Lycanroc
• #30: Tsareena
• #41: Day Lycanroc
• #43: Necrozma
• #49: Kommo-o
• #56: Tapu-Koko
• #76: Buzzwole

POUR ONE OUT TO THE FALLEN COMRADES

• #2: Mimikyu
• #4: A. Vulpix
• #6: A. Raichu
• #10: Togedamaru
• #14: Pyukumuku
• #20: Bewear
• #32: Lunala
• #40: Solgaleo
• #51: Marshadow
• #54: A. Exeggutor

4 out of the top 10 are already pokeball pokemon, which is interesting.

Completely leaving out Rowlett as the #1 is pretty weird....I'm not quite predicting it, but if it got in it would make a lot of sense. I'd love for a cute Pokemon for once lol

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Gen 7 was pretty cool to me, but I wouldn't rank it above Hoenn for me. I liked the concepts introduced in Gen 6 but never played the game.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Has anyone heard of this leak? I find it weird that he doesn't say where this source is coming from.