Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Here's my idea. Hear me out.

Alolan Pokemon Trainer

Rowlet-Torracat-Primarina

Nice. Great idea there.

Pokemon trainer is a great concept (that represent the pokemon games very well... having a team of pokemon i mean).

Would be awesome to see more of this type of character for future pokemon rep.

If they are looking to add up vilains there's still Giovanni or Jesse & James.

 

[Noipoi]

Ok, I don't like loz's opinions (not leaks) anymore...

lol

No Geno
No Isabelle
Those opinions are trash, me and loz18 can't be friends anymore.

Spoiler

FRIENDSHIP ENDED WITH LOZ18. NOW VERG IS MY BEST FRIEND.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

So apparently Ken was leaked? I dunno how much faith to put in Verg right now.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Blazekin

Well it's not a goth but it is hot

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Sakurai adds 2 of the big 3.

Stops short of the third one.

Unless Square told him no?

I very much doubt it.

 

[Shroob]

So apparently Ken was leaked? I dunno how much faith to put in Verg right now.

I mean, why not?

Street Fighter got a huge shot in the arm of songs this game, and Ken would be an easy echo.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Sony paid 100% of the cost of Homecoming. This is well documented. Marvel may have produced the film, but it was on Sony's dollar.

Marvel paid nothing for the rights to use Spider-Man in the Avengers, because his presence in the films boosts the value of Sony's products. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement. Spider-Man in the Avengers raises the value of the Avengers, and it raises the value of the Sony produced Spider-Man products.

It is only off-topic in that you want to argue specifics of the deal instead of seeing the comparison for what it is. Two big companies that did not cooperate for years finally putting aside their differences because of the mutually beneficial outcome of working together.

Banjo being in Smash raises the value of Banjo. Banjo being in Smash raises the value of Smash. An equally beneficial agreement is well within the realm of possibility.

"Banjo being in Smash raises the value of Banjo. Banjo being in Smash raises the value of Smash."

That's not tangible. Companies does not operate on assumptions and guesses. They have statistics and analysis that help them decide choices. Banjo being in Smash is lopsided in Microsoft favor compared to Banjo being in Smash raising Smash value. Smash is going to have 70+ characters so Banjo himself will not add much Value as compared to a Banjo game where he is the standout and main character. This is not really mutually beneficial like you says it is because of the specifics of what Smash is and what's a stand alone Banjo game is.

YOU ALSO ignoring merchandise costs completely such as Amibo and Artwork. WILL Microsoft also give that FREELY to Nintendo?? You also making assumptions that Microsoft will even push Banjo games out. I don't think you really thought that through. Licensing isn't just about character playability; merchandising also plays a role which costs and again I am not entertaining you if you think Microsoft will just give Banjo up along with Merchandise without no money being involved for the simple fact of free advertisement (whatever that is anyway).
Mutually beneficial is really stretching it. You also said free at first which changes the entire scope of it. If both parties feel they getting similar benefits then yeah Microsoft and Nintendo could let Banjo be in Smash. My original statement is me outlining as to why something would have to change in order for both parties to have similar benefits. Your point about mutually beneficial doesn't go against my point because I never said both parties wouldn't benefit nor do I have to state that. Nintendo paying for a license will be outweighed by the revenue they make for Smash so of course both parties will benefit; I my arguing just how much who it benefits and why something would have to change.

Companies are not going to allow another company to greatly benefit ( ESPECIALLY there Direct competitor) while they themselves benefit little in comparison especially when they aren't pressured to. Nintendo is still a company and is out to make money.

Now you change it to being"mutually beneficial" when you initially said FREE. You also said that Microsoft could just give Banjo to Nintendo for free and they get free advertisement for him being in Smash except free advertisement is just a side effect and not anything tangible not to mention they themselves would have to make games to get any benefit of the "advertisement". That deal scenario is entirely irrelevant unless you were referring to Nintendo deliberately advertising Banjo for Microsoft (on the Xbox.. see the futility in this) in which case its no longer FREE and both sides benefit. You should have said mutually beneficial from the get go and it still doesn't actually goes against what I said. When you say free; you are telling me that Microsoft will get no benefits from a deal. When you say free; your telling me Sony got no benefit from the deal. Non-deliberate or non-intentional advertisement is impossible to put in a deal because its not intended. This deal is impossible and to actually believe it is futile.

You shouldn't had said free in the first place and that's literally the only thing that could go against my statement. Banjo for all intents and purposes will not raise the value of Smash that much because he's a rather an old character where older people grew up with him and those people wanting Banjo in would buy Smash anyway.

A deal still has to be made and you used free as it was the only way in which it could give against my argument. I was just stating that 1.) Microsoft x Nintendo with Minecraft had a reason for happening due to the context and the way business operates and that people are overblowing the "buddy" thing and that 2.) Microsoft isn't just going to let Banjo in without getting benefits and that Nintendo isn't going to put Banjo in without getting benefits and having your direct competitor benefit while you have little to gain from it isn't something a company would do; they would try to get more benefits then a straw-man argument of raising the value of Smash when that value is questionable on how much and not tangible or something that cannot be determined.

The problem here is that you said free and free does not mean what you are now implying. Also again; Marvel has to use up their resources (man power / employees) to mostly produce Spider Man; those resources could be better be used elsewhere but that is now pointless because you are now saying mutual benefits which clearly happened in some fashion since a deal was made but it NOT free like you originally said to counteract my response. In essence your response was unnecessary because it did not go against my statement unless you used Free which you did and turned out to be completely wrong so now you are saying mutually beneficial to backtrack now.

Unless you can live with the cognitive dissonance of Nintendo advertising Banjo on the Xbox; something has to give. Even then that's not free either.

It seems like again you were annoyed with what I said due to the way you came off and used "Free" as the argument which was the only argument but didn't actually apply because what I originally said is not false and because Free Deals company to company does not go together .

I am not saying Banjo is impossible. The main focus was to point out the misconceptions of Microsoft x Nintendo and to explain why SOMETHING would have to change in order for him to be in. You took it to left field as if I was stating this is exactly how Microsoft and Nintendo operates. It doesn't take complete knowledge to understand the fundamentals of what a company is and what's it interests are. Microsoft and Nintendo are Direct competitors but can stand to benefit if it's equal.I study politics and international politics and everything is about interests and cost vs reward, rivals etc. Companies fundamentally has the same goals. I truly don't know why you used Free originally as that was just nonsense as nothing is free especially when it comes to companies doing deals.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So apparently Ken was leaked? I dunno how much faith to put in Verg right now.

He hasn't gotten anything actually wrong so far.

And we already know that leakers don't generally get the full picture anyway.

Though to be fair? I'm pretty sure Ken is expected so much that we don't need Verg to say it.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I don't mind Ken as Ryu's echo.

Personally I'd rather have one of the other similar shotos though.

Akuma in particular would be neat.

 

[Nazyrus]

Sooo… in the range of days that Gamescom lasts, is there a specific day of those were Smash is involved or is it each one of the days? Just wondering if i should pay attention to a specific day or just be alert in each one of them.

 

[Wambo]

Gotta admit, I wasn't down for Ken before, but as someone who likes recreating fights with characters from their respective series, it'd be nice to have another Street Fighter character so I could use Ryu more (or Ken for that matter).

Plus, seeing as SF has like, 20+ songs now, I think he's pretty much a given at this point. Disappointed that we didn't get Protoman as a Megaman Echo, though.

 

[LetterO]

There's been alot of talk about Stages and Characters, but are there any modes you guys want to return? I personally really hope these do.

Stage Creator: I loved being able to create stages, and it was also a super smart idea to have been able to download other's stages too. I hope it returns with more variety of items, and maybe we could add our own stage hazards (like enable Dracula to show up on your stage)?

Master and Crazy Orders: I found the idea of this pretty cool. I liked how you basically gambled with higher risk being higher reward.

Smash Run: Does it need explanation? Smash Run was a super fun mode, and needs to return with online multiplayer.

Smash Tour: Okay, unpopular opinion. I enjoyed Smash Tour. It was fun, and I didn't really find anything too wrong with it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Modes?

I want Bonuses back as well as Bonus Mode. Just no dumb challenges like having to get No Damage Run. Screw. That. Noise.

 

[Shroob]

Man, if Ken is in, and due to the change Ryu got to always face his opponent.


Are we sure we can't just play a match of Street FIghter in Smash?

 

[BlueMagician]

There's been alot of talk about Stages and Characters, but are there any modes you guys want to return? I personally really hope these do.

Stage Creator: I loved being able to create stages, and it was also a super smart idea to have been able to download other's stages too. I hope it returns with more variety of items, and maybe we could add our own stage hazards (like enable Dracula to show up on your stage)?

Master and Crazy Orders: I found the idea of this pretty cool. I liked how you basically gambled with higher risk being higher reward.

Smash Run: Does it need explanation? Smash Run was a super fun mode, and needs to return with online multiplayer.

Smash Tour: Okay, unpopular opinion. I enjoyed Smash Tour. It was fun, and I didn't really find anything too wrong with it.

Coin Launcher!

It's hard to explain how fun and mesmerizing it is.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I don't really care so much what particular single player modes are in, but I want them to not have any loot style concept. RNG custom drops totally defined smash 4's single player and were the main reason it was a lot less fun than every previous smash game. It was just work you had to do to eventually have what you wanted.

 

[Wambo]

There's been alot of talk about Stages and Characters, but are there any modes you guys want to return?

Classic, All-Star, Event Match (Melee version), Break the Targets, Fighting Wireframes (NO MIIs)...
(and Melee Adventure Mode pls)

 

[Shroob]

I don't really care so much what particular single player modes are in, but I want them to not have any loot style concept. RNG custom drops totally defined smash 4's single player and were the main reason it was a lot less fun than every previous smash game. It was just work you had to do to eventually have what you wanted.

*Grinding hours upon days just for that final goddamn Mii hat to drop*

Please, never again.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Disappointed that we didn't get Protoman as a Megaman Echo, though.

That's a shame. All they had to do is put a scarf and sunglasses on Megaman (basically).

Would've been cool if he had his little shield while jumping (blocking projectiles only).

 

[Idon]

I really wish we got a Protoman echo with this as a final smash

They all use energy blades so instead of a giant laserbeam it'd be like 5 guys just all surrounding a guy and slicing him up.
It'd be sick.

 

[Nazyrus]

I don't really care so much what particular single player modes are in, but I want them to not have any loot style concept. RNG custom drops totally defined smash 4's single player and were the main reason it was a lot less fun than every previous smash game. It was just work you had to do to eventually have what you wanted.

This. I had no fun whatsoever with dealing with the endless RNG drop loot thing. I can go play raids on WoW if i want to deal with that crap lol

 

[cothero]

If Ken gets in, will this be attributed to Verg?

Ken and Shadow are the third party characters more likely to be added, Verg might have been informed that Ken is in but his source may not be reliable, so he threw that as a bait like he did with that "gen 7 Pokémon rep that is not Decidueye, Lycanroc or Mimikyu" case.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The thing I like least about Ken as a potential echo fighter is doubling the odds to get Ryu when playing with a random character. That character is just impossible to use if you don't main him.

 

[P.Kat]

I'd rather have an unique SF instead, but if SF had to get an echo, I'd rather have Sakura as an echo then Ken, but he would be next on my list after her

 

[papagenos]

The thing I like least about Ken as a potential echo fighter is doubling the odds to get Ryu when playing with a random character. That character is just impossible to use if you don't main him.

im hopeful when you stack echos and hit random maybe itll take them out of the running? maybe not i dunno its annoying getting essentially twice as many chances at pit in smash 4

 

[PeridotGX]

The thing I like least about Ken as a potential echo fighter is doubling the odds to get Ryu when playing with a random character. That character is just impossible to use if you don't main him.

Ken could be "simple" Ryu like how Lucina is simple Marth?

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Nintendo, seeing a public leery of game consoles after the crash, used R.O.B. to convince both consumers, and perhaps more importantly retailers the NES was better classed as a general toy than just a game console. To what extent R.O.B . was actually responsible for the successful launch of the NES is something that can be debated, and calling him a savior probably an exaggeration, but he certainly played a role in the whole thing. Nintendo certainly have a fondness for the little guy, considering the number of appearances, cameos, and references he has received over three decades.

I want to add to this that R.O.B. was designed by the late Nintendo developer Gunpei Yokoi. I believe R.O.B.'s significance is accentuated by his association with Yokoi and Yokoi's creations (for example, R.O.B.'s standard emblem in Mario Kart DS is the Game Boy D-pad, and the Game Boy was another Yokoi creation). The same goes for Mr. Game & Watch, whose appearances in WarioWare games seem to be explained by Yokoi's involvement with the development of Super Mario Land II, the game that debuted Wario. It's also perfect that the Game & Watch games were minigames to which those of WarioWare are in a similar vein. Yokoi's legacy lives on in these characters (Wario, G&W, R.O.B.).

Thankfully, hatred for R.O.B. has toned down over the years, with most people now indifferent to him, but they still buy into the myth that he was a "useless peripheral" that Nintendo tried to use to nab some quick cash in the 1980's.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Sakurai adds 2 of the big 3.

Stops short of the third one.

Unless Square told him no?

I very much doubt it.

To be fair, we as fans labeled it that. You could also technically add Isaac to that list but since he got an AT in Brawl we didn't as such. I personally think both are coming simply because Sakurai acknowledged Ridley and K. Rool. Especially K. Rool.

 

[ZephyrZ]

The thing I like least about Ken as a potential echo fighter is doubling the odds to get Ryu when playing with a random character. That character is just impossible to use if you don't main him.

In all fairness, we're talking about bumping a roughly 1.5% chance of getting him to around a 3% chance of it. And that's assuming the roster size stays close to what it is now.

I agree it would be nice if they had some sort of fix for this, like the character stacking that got mentioned. But in the end, it's not really a big deal.

Edit: Oops, quoted the wrong post. Fixed it.

 

[P.Kat]

Here's my idea. Hear me out.

Alolan Pokemon Trainer

Rowlet-Torracat-Primarina

Yes, all my yes to this idea. I wiuld love to see Primarina in Smash.

Ok, I don't like loz's opinions (not leaks) anymore...

lol

First Verge broke our friendship when he said No Lycanroc, now lolz says No Isaac, and no Isabelle? Well all I can say to them is

Spoiler

XD

 

[Misery Brick]

Man, if Ken is in, and due to the change Ryu got to always face his opponent.


Are we sure we can't just play a match of Street FIghter in Smash?

Just do stamina battle with a custom stage, if there are any, without any possibility of knocking a character off stage. That would basically be how to recreate it.
I feel Ken would probably be some of the more low-effort echoes to get in, give him some animations to show him being more lively and cocky, and add multi hitting properties towards Shoryuken and the Tatsu. If we do get another SF character that isn't Ken, I fully believe it'll be Chun-Li. She is after all the one of the most prominent female fighting game characters, and video game characters in general.

Also on the topic of echoes, is it out of the question for Tails to be it instead of Shadow? Like I completely understand what Shadow has going for him, but I remember seeing someone mention the same thing for the fox. Like I feel that Chrom can solidify that, given Tails doesn't do too much outside of Sonic's moveset aside from the Adventure games and flying. (Then again, I could be completely off on that as I can really only think of classic Sonic games rn.)
He is Sonic's P2 character, and is more iconic than Shadow. I just think if he had an Assist Trophy in Smash 4 instead of Shadow, he'd be discussed more.
With that said though, I still think Shadow is likely. Not a lock, but likely.

There's been alot of talk about Stages and Characters, but are there any modes you guys want to return? I personally really hope these do.

Stage Creator: I loved being able to create stages, and it was also a super smart idea to have been able to download other's stages too. I hope it returns with more variety of items, and maybe we could add our own stage hazards (like enable Dracula to show up on your stage)?

Master and Crazy Orders: I found the idea of this pretty cool. I liked how you basically gambled with higher risk being higher reward.

Smash Run: Does it need explanation? Smash Run was a super fun mode, and needs to return with online multiplayer.

Smash Tour: Okay, unpopular opinion. I enjoyed Smash Tour. It was fun, and I didn't really find anything too wrong with it.

Smash Run desperately needs to return if we aren't receiving much in the way of trophy unlocking or a general adventure mode, which I'm confident is returning. Even then it'd definitely be better if you could interact with your opponents on the map and play online. (Also more enemies from a wide selection of franchises instead of just KI, Pokemon, Zelda, Mario, and the occasional Metroid and DK enemies.)
Stage Creator is a neat addition, the way I'd love for it back is if you could have more themes and locales from Nintendo franchises to base them off of. Otherwise, it's neat to screw around in for like an hour before coming back to it occasionally. (Also boss integration would be amazing to see.)
I personally would love to see Board the Platforms or Race to the Finish come back, even though they most likely won't.

 

[DevaAshera]

1. I wasn't talking about reps. I was talking about Assist Trophies.
2. It's not exactly fair to write off Yoshi because of the Mario connection...

1) When I said Reps, I meant all forms of representation from Characters to Assists to Trophies.
2) I'm not writing him off, just stating that Kamek/Magikoopa, Shy Guys, Baby Mario, etc, pretty much all Yoshi things, always get classified as 'Mario' series in Smash. It's not fair, but it's how it's been. I'm hoping that'll change this time and they'll place things more linked with Yoshi, like Shyguys, in the Yoshi category. I mean, a Poochy trophy is likely since he appears in Super Mario Odyssey (first main series appearance even)..I really hope they don't classify Poochy under Mario..

 

[P.Kat]

Ken could be "simple" Ryu like how Lucina is simple Marth?

I'd rather Sakura than Ken, but if either one become Ryu's echo, I can see this happening. You take you out the Street Fighter inputs to make them less technical, then you buff up their special attacks to make them more powerful than Ryu's without inputs but still less powerful than Ryu's Street Fighter inputs.

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: Blacephalon

Funny things about this one, that I haven't seen anyone make connections with.

Back when Sun/Moon was coming out there was a leak about a ice/ghost dullahan snowman that removed its head to attack.

Weird that this thing is the opposite type to ice, takes off its head and could be mistaken for a snowman is some respect, due to being round and white.

Its clown, obviously but still you get me.

 

[Shroob]

One thing I'm gonna do is taper my expectations.

I know it sounds silly, but I really don't think the next reveal will top K.Rool, especially if we 'finally' get that 7th Gen Pokemon that Verg's been saying.


The final reveal? Absolutely, but I'm expecting a couple Inkling/Simon level reveals for awhile until near the end.

 

[Deleted member]

I could've sworn Waluigi got a title card. Could be wrong though.
SPEAKING OF ASSISTS, I'm about to blow your ****ing mind with a new tinfoil hat theory.

View attachment 158590

Why would they specifically add (Mega Man) to the end of his name? Unless there's another Zero in the game somewhere...

Spoiler

New Spirits boss, anyone?

View attachment 158591

Because in Smash Wii U, there was Zero (Mega Man) and Zero (Metroid).
The latter was an enemy that appeared on Pyrosphere

Ok, I don't like loz's opinions (not leaks) anymore...

lol

>"A Gen 8 Pokémon as a newcomer"
>Ultimate was drafted back in December of 2015, before Gen 7 was even announced.

Yeah, no. At this point, I'm not even bothering to pay attention to what loz has to say.

 

[Zinith]

1) When I said Reps, I meant all forms of representation from Characters to Assists to Trophies.
2) I'm not writing him off, just stating that Kamek/Magikoopa, Shy Guys, Baby Mario, etc, pretty much all Yoshi things, always get classified as 'Mario' series in Smash. It's not fair, but it's how it's been. I'm hoping that'll change this time and they'll place things more linked with Yoshi, like Shyguys, in the Yoshi category. I mean, a Poochy trophy is likely since he appears in Super Mario Odyssey (first main series appearance even)..I really hope they don't classify Poochy under Mario..

See, there's tons of elements from the Yoshi games that could be made into ATs that have jack**** to do with the Mario games. That's what I'm getting at. Grinders, Nep-Enuts, Eggo-dils, Huffin' Puffins, Prince Froggy, etc. It's not fair to write him off like that when he has all that...

 

[Pakky]

Why do some ignore that Skull Kid becoming Majora is a reasonable Final Smash?

 

[Michaelrexx]

Could someone link me to that verg leak with Ken?

 

[Idon]

Could someone link me to that verg leak with Ken?

Just a gamefaqs post that states "Trash it. Doesn't have Ken."