Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[toonito]

cautiously optimistic that my #1 character for Ultimate, Ken, made the cut

HYPE THRUSTERS CHARGING

please be right Vergeben

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Why do some ignore that Skull Kid becoming Majora is a reasonable Final Smash?

I guess because he's trying to crash the moon into the world all game long in MM, it's his thing.

Btw i'm totally with you on this, Majora's form would be a great final smash.

 

[Idon]

Why do some ignore that Skull Kid becoming Majora is a reasonable Final Smash?

Because everyone expects the moon

Everyone WANTS the moon.

Half the reason people know Skull Kid is because he summons the moon.

The moon is more iconic than Skullkid himself at this point. In fact, I'd go as far as to say Skull Kid is associated with the Moon, not the other way around.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Ken could be "simple" Ryu like how Lucina is simple Marth?

I dunno if simple Ryu is even possible. Removing all the command inputs would make him way less annoying to play as (the number of accidental tatsus I do just trying to do unrelated things is pretty funny), but Ryu also just has a set of normals that give him a super weird neutral and just awkward movement all around that I'm sure will feel even more awkward in Ultimate with the facing mechanic if you're one of those people who mains "not Ryu". Ryu is just built from the ground up to be that character you invest crazy heavily in and who is just horrible for anyone who doesn't make that investment, and while that's fine, it's also painful when the old random button decides it's not feeling friendly.

And yeah, obviously I can deal with it if Ryu gets double odds in Smash Ultimate and it's not a serious reason to exclude Ken, but man, a friend and I have been playing a bunch of random character matches in smash 4 to prep for Ultimate and Ryu is really a big problem in a way no other character is since he's just impossible. The main thing I've learned about Ryu is that no matter how top tier Ryu is in Ultimate I'm not playing him; this will be the first smash game I go into actually 100% closed to the possibility of using one of the characters. In other words...

I hate Ryu on Wuhu's boat. My accidental tatsus make Ryu float. Ryu's command inputs are a huge strain. Ryu lacks the movement for Spirit Train. Ryu jumps badly to Duck Hunt's tree. Why won't Ryu let me be? Please no more Ryu, how about Fox? I'd rather play Snake in his box. Ryu is hated in my house. I much prefer the electric mouse. Not even a little Ryu here and there! I don't want to play Ryu anywhere. I do not like green eggs and ham. I don't want to play Ryu Sam-I-am.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I think if they have a cinematic final Smash with the moon crashing into Termina it would solve any problems people have with it potentially showing up anywhere else in the game

 

[Pakky]

Because everyone expects the moon

Everyone WANTS the moon.

The moon is more iconic than Skullkid himself at this point.

I agree. To be fair that's why they may be apart now.

 

[Nazyrus]

Because everyone expects the moon

Everyone WANTS the moon.

The moon is more iconic than Skullkid himself at this point.

lol Speak for yourself, i'm open to the idea of majora's wrath for a final smash or even a combination of the moon with his other forms, which I'm sure sakurai can easily pull. The moon is more iconic for the game itself than the character of skull kid in particular. Plus expecting the moon to be the only signature move of skull kid is oversimplifying him.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I agree. To be fair that's why they may be apart now.

Random theory, if it happens that Skull Kid is playable and Majora’s Wrath is his final smash, maybe they were like,

“Hmm, the obvious final smash is to use the moon, but I really really like the idea of Majora’s Wrath, so what do I do?”
“Why not have both, like, make the moon an AT or something so Majora can be the final smash?”

 

[Idon]

I agree. To be fair that's why they may be apart now.

I, myself, couldn't care less how many giant menacing moons we have in this game. The moon's ****ing radical.

I'd be down to have it as:
a background element in the Great Bay
a stage hazard in a clocktower stage
an assist trophy
an actual stage where we fight on the moon meadow
a final smash where Skull Kid summons it down
an element in Young Link's final smash where Fierce Deity cuts in half
a mii fighter costume as a helmet
Hell, I'd even take a tiny miniature version of it as a throwable item.

Is it a bit much? Yeah.

 

[UltimateWario]

I have no stake in whether Skull Kid is playable or not. I don’t really care either way.

BUT The Moon Assist Trophy seems to utterly destroy the stage and everyone on it. It could be that Sakurai wanted to utilize the Moon to its maximum potential while keeping Final Smashes balanced (since he seems to be trying REALLY hard to get people to use them in competetive matches). People don’t use items competetively, so an Assist Trophy can be stupidly powerful like that.

That said it’s flimsy reasoning but Sakurai’s house is probably made of flimsy reasoning.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I, myself, couldn't care less how many giant menacing moons we have in this game. The moon's ****ing radical.

I'd be down to have it as:
a background element in the Great Bay
a stage hazard in a clocktower stage
an assist trophy
an actual stage where we fight on the moon meadow
a final smash where Skull Kid summons it down
a mii fighter costume as a helmet
Hell, I'd even take a tiny miniature version of it as a throwable item.

Is it a bit much? Yeah.

lol. The miniature version. You seem like a big fan of this moon, want one of those? :

Spoiler

 

[Nonno Umby]

I have no stake in whether Skull Kid is playable or not. I don’t really care either way.

BUT The Moon Assist Trophy seems to utterly destroy the stage and everyone on it. It could be that Sakurai wanted to utilize the Moon to its maximum potential while keeping Final Smashes balanced (since he seems to be trying REALLY hard to get people to use them in competetive matches). People don’t use items competetively, so an Assist Trophy can be stupidly powerful like that.

That said it’s flimsy reasoning but Sakurai’s house is probably made of flimsy reasoning.

By looking at the footage it seams that the Moon's hitbox is just on the center of the screen, so it isn't really over powered or unavoidable. It wasn't even capable of K.O. Shovel Knight, so it might even be weaker than we expect.

 

[Idon]

I have no stake in whether Skull Kid is playable or not. I don’t really care either way.

BUT The Moon Assist Trophy seems to utterly destroy the stage and everyone on it. It could be that Sakurai wanted to utilize the Moon to its maximum potential while keeping Final Smashes balanced (since he seems to be trying REALLY hard to get people to use them in competetive matches). People don’t use items competetively, so an Assist Trophy can be stupidly powerful like that.

That said it’s flimsy reasoning but Sakurai’s house is probably made of flimsy reasoning.

Aaah, that classic Sakurai reasoning.
Quaint otherwise, but stings a bit when it's used for things you like.

lol. The miniature version. You seem like a big fan of this moon, want one of those? :

Spoiler

Yeah, the mini-moon thing was a reference to Hyrule Warrior's Skull Kid special attack where he kicks it like a soccer-ball at an enemy. It's hilarious.
And I actually did have that specific moon art as a profile image on a lot of my accounts.

 

[N3ON]

I have no stake in whether Skull Kid is playable or not. I don’t really care either way.

BUT The Moon Assist Trophy seems to utterly destroy the stage and everyone on it. It could be that Sakurai wanted to utilize the Moon to its maximum potential while keeping Final Smashes balanced (since he seems to be trying REALLY hard to get people to use them in competetive matches). People don’t use items competetively, so an Assist Trophy can be stupidly powerful like that.

That said it’s flimsy reasoning but Sakurai’s house is probably made of flimsy reasoning.

They have some unfairly powerful Pokeballs, so it's nice to see the equivalent with an AT. We need more "legendary" style ATs anyway.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They have some unfairly powerful Pokeballs, so it's nice to see the equivalent with an AT. We need more "legendary" style ATs anyway.

Well, we do have The Legendary Starfy.

 

[P.Kat]

I dunno if simple Ryu is even possible. Removing all the command inputs would make him way less annoying to play as (the number of accidental tatsus I do just trying to do unrelated things is pretty funny), but Ryu also just has a set of normals that give him a super weird neutral and just awkward movement all around that I'm sure will feel even more awkward in Ultimate with the facing mechanic if you're one of those people who mains "not Ryu". Ryu is just built from the ground up to be that character you invest crazy heavily in and who is just horrible for anyone who doesn't make that investment, and while that's fine, it's also painful when the old random button decides it's not feeling friendly.

And yeah, obviously I can deal with it if Ryu gets double odds in Smash Ultimate and it's not a serious reason to exclude Ken, but man, a friend and I have been playing a bunch of random character matches in smash 4 to prep for Ultimate and Ryu is really a big problem in a way no other character is since he's just impossible. The main thing I've learned about Ryu is that no matter how top tier Ryu is in Ultimate I'm not playing him; this will be the first smash game I go into actually 100% closed to the possibility of using one of the characters. In other words...

I hate Ryu on Wuhu's boat. My accidental tatsus make Ryu float. Ryu's command inputs are a huge strain. Ryu lacks the movement for Spirit Train. Ryu jumps badly to Duck Hunt's tree. Why won't Ryu let me be? Please no more Ryu, how about Fox? I'd rather play Snake in his box. Ryu is hated in my house. I much prefer the electric mouse. Not even a little Ryu here and there! I don't want to play Ryu anywhere. I do not like green eggs and ham. I don't want to play Ryu Sam-I-am.

You know the dislike is real when someone starts quoting Dr. Seuss: Green Eggs and Ham. Not that I have a problem with Dr. Seuss lovely books to grow up with. I also share your opinions on Ryu as much as I'd love to use him in Smash, I just can't play with him, he's my only 100% unplayable character. Tatsumakis end lives in more ways than one

 

[N3ON]

Well, we do have The Legendary Starfy.

Well Goldeen does come out of Master Balls...

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Yeah, the mini-moon thing was a reference to Hyrule Warrior's Skull Kid special attack where he kicks it like a soccer-ball at an enemy. It's hilarious.
And I actually did have that specific moon art as a profile image on a lot of my accounts.

Wow it's a real thing, i thought you were kidding or losing your mind Actually never played hyrule warriors but i heard good things about it.

As for the t-shirt i didn't want to give false hopes... i don't have one for you... .. to tell you the truth i found the image on the internet...

 

[Idon]

Speaking of legendary assist trophies, I've always been a fan of the Summoner gun from Fire Emblem Heroes as a way to put popular non-Lords into Smash.

One idea I had for that "Summoner gun" was a Xander and Ryoma dual assist trophy that would summon both of them at opposite ends of the stage where they would rush at each other and clash in the middle before vanishing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well Goldeen does come out of Master Balls...

Giovanni: Only I have the balls to rule Kanto!

But yeah, what I'd like is if Goldeen appears on a stage with water, if it gets in the water, it can actually use horn attack on any nearby characters.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

In my first run of blue when I was 10, I catch a pidgeotto with my master ball.

But at that point I already had all the legendaries anyway and I was just a couple pokemon from all 151

 

[Omega Tyrant]

This is completely inaccurate and is a total misread of the situation.


Vergeben had asked LoZ if he'd heard anything about "No DK Characters" being a thing. He was asking another notably accurate leaker for corroboration. Given the person the claim came from, this is absolutely a good call. It's basic fact checking.

Then LoZ was an attention-grabbing moron and leaked the PM.

Vergeben never put faith into the claim; he was doing basic fact checking and because of an idiotic move by LoZ, it spread a ton of misinformation.

Another consequence of Loz releasing that PM is people attributing Incineroar as something Vergeben is claiming, when he has been adamant that he's unsure of it and lacks corroboration on it, while he has said nothing since to change that.

The only things regarding Pokemon that Vergeben has claimed to be legitimate leaks is that there is a Pokemon newcomer and it's not Decidueye, Mimikyu, nor Lycanroc, Incineroar is not an official claim by him yet.

Playability might be the ideal, but take it from an Isaac supporter, while disappointment is natural, bemoaning that your character only made AT is looking a gift horse in the mouth. Don't get complacent and take things for granted, you could always be worse off.

Yeah when people complain about assist trophies and how "X character would have been better playable", they have to realize the alternative is that the character wouldn't be in the game at all beyond a trophy, assist trophies are explicitly meant to give an active ingame role to popular and noteworthy characters that weren't able to make the game's playable roster. If you took out the ATs of Bomberman, Ashley, Krystal, Shovel Knight, etc., they still wouldn't be playable.

I know there is the fear that characters who are assist trophies will be ineligible for DLC, however I think that fear is unfounded; it's not like Sakurai was making plans for a DLC roster after he planned out the initial roster, so he wasn't deciding who of the leftovers would be better off saved for DLC and thus kept out of being ATs, and we have no idea how the DLC will go. People like to point out how no ATs were promoted in Smash 4's DLC, but then Smash 4's DLC plan simply didn't allow for the possibility, as Smash 4's DLC was: Mewtwo, cut Melee veteran, cut Brawl veteran, promotional Nintendo newcomer, two big third parties, and Bayonetta (whether you go with the notion that she was put in to help make Nintendo's investment in her worthwhile or genuinely believe she was put in because she legitimately won the Ballot, no AT character could have been in that spot). Ultimate's DLC could very well go in another direction that has AT characters as legitimate candidates, the fact that there are no veterans to bring back means a good deal of Ultimate's DLC will have to be in a different direction, and there's the fact Ultimate's DLC could very well last a lot longer since it's on the Switch instead of a dead console, which bodes better for characters who were excluded from the initial roster decision made back in 2015.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Not sure if anybody has talked about the information laid out in this here reddit post, but it gives some interesting points for the possibility of Isaac and Skull Kid.

TL,DR:

After 10 yrs of not being touched, the page for Isaac's most recent game on Nintendo UK was recently updated. Twice in the same week in fact, shortly following the Direct.

Poster claims Nintendo UK posted a picture of a new Skull Kid figure on instagram, one with a base that looks very much like an Amiibo. Then claims they took down the picture quickly, replacing it with another of the same figure, only the base has been hidden.

Again, ya'll may already know about this, but figured to check if you didn't

 

[Shroob]

Not sure if anybody has talked about the information laid out in this here reddit post, but it gives some interesting points for the possibility of Isaac and Skull Kid.

TL,DR:

After 10 yrs of not being touched, the page for Isaac's most recent game on Nintendo UK was recently updated. Twice in the same week in fact, shortly following the Direct.

Poster claims Nintendo UK posted a picture of a new Skull Kid figure on instagram, one with a base that looks very much like an Amiibo. Then claims they took down the picture quickly, replacing it with another of the same figure, only the base has been hidden.

Again, ya'll may already know about this, but figured to check if you didn't

The figure probably doesn't mean anything, since Nintendo UK was just @ing someone who made it.


The Dark Dawn page update though is actually really interesting.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Not sure if anybody has talked about the information laid out in this here reddit post, but it gives some interesting points for the possibility of Isaac and Skull Kid.

TL,DR:

After 10 yrs of not being touched, the page for Isaac's most recent game on Nintendo UK was recently updated. Twice in the same week in fact, shortly following the Direct.

Poster claims Nintendo UK posted a picture of a new Skull Kid figure on instagram, one with a base that looks very much like an Amiibo. Then claims they took down the picture quickly, replacing it with another of the same figure, only the base has been hidden.

Again, ya'll may already know about this, but figured to check if you didn't

Have you a photo of that Skull Kid figure? In that link I couldn't find it, but I've never used reddit so maybe I just missed it.

Edit: I checked, it isn't a new figure, it is the Skull Kid figure which was bundled with Majora Mask 3D Limited Edition

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Have you a photo of that Skull Kid figure? In that link I couldn't find it, but I've never used reddit so maybe I just missed it.

Poster himself didn't offer pics, and I imagine it'll be difficult to find the original as they apparently took it down quickly and replaced it.

Did find the instagram post though


EDIT: The ridiculousness of the prospect of Nintendo UK "accidentally" posting the NEW Skull Kid Smash Bros tied amiibo in an instagram post wasn't lost on me, so I'm not surprised.

Still, that Isaac point is at the very least coincidental

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, the Skull Kid figurine is just a retweet.

The Golden Sun info is what we should be looking at.


Why would a site be updated after 10 years of inactivity?

 

[DevaAshera]

See, there's tons of elements from the Yoshi games that could be made into ATs that have jack**** to do with the Mario games. That's what I'm getting at. Grinders, Nep-Enuts, Eggo-dils, Huffin' Puffins, Prince Froggy, etc. It's not fair to write him off like that when he has all that...

Most of those aren't the most well known or beloved things in the Yoshi series..thats mostly Shyguys, Poochy, and Kamek aside from Yoshi himself.
Poochy would be the perfect AT though.

 

[Nonno Umby]

Poster himself didn't offer pics, and I imagine it'll be difficult to find the original as they apparently took it down quickly and replaced it.

Did find the instagram post though

Yeah, that isn't a brand new figure, it's the one from the Majora Mask 3D Limited Edition.

Have you a photo of that Skull Kid figure? In that link I couldn't find it, but I've never used reddit so maybe I just missed it.

Edit: I checked, it isn't a new figure, it is the Skull Kid figure which was bundled with Majora Mask #3D Limited Edition
View attachment 158616

 

[N3ON]

Could be wrong, but I believe the Isaac thread concluded that the Dark Dawn page was one of many old random games that got their page updated by Nintendo last week in what seemed like routine maintenance.

Don’t think it means anything, as much as I wish otherwise.

 

[Zinith]

Most of those aren't the most well known or beloved things in the Yoshi series..thats mostly Shyguys, Poochy, and Kamek aside from Yoshi himself.
Poochy would be the perfect AT though.

I think all of the things I listed are reasonable enough to be ATs on their own (Nep-Enut is on the ****ing cover of Yoshi's Island even).

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Could be wrong, but I believe the Isaac thread concluded that the Dark Dawn page was one of many old random games that got their page updated by Nintendo last week in what seemed like routine maintenance.

Don’t think it means anything, as much as I wish otherwise.

Or maybe it means all the old random games are getting reps!!!

What I'm optimistic

 

[KMDP]

Which one is Blaze, Amy, and Rouge? LOL

I can see Amy being the Chi-Chi of the series minus her marriage to Goku
Blaze I think would be the new SS girl
Rouge is 18 because she can kick legit ***

Amy is, naturally, Chichi, as you said.
Blaze is Gohan, specifically Future Gohan (Because she's also Sonic's Equal and is Silver's mentor in the Future and dies in the Future timeline)
Rouge is... probably 18 (with a bit of Ranfan if anyone remembers who that is ).

Well a good chunk of Johto Pokemon were beta Kanto designs.
Pokemon like Ampharos, Scizor and Lugia make up for it though.

But Ampharos and Scizor were in the GS Demo, meaning they could very well have been Beta Kanto designs.

Because everyone expects the moon

Everyone WANTS the moon.

Half the reason people know Skull Kid is because he summons the moon.

The moon is more iconic than Skullkid himself at this point. In fact, I'd go as far as to say Skull Kid is associated with the Moon, not the other way around.

*coughs*

 

[Wambo]

Random thought, I'm actually kind of surprised Leon Kennedy isn't in Smash yet, especially since we have two Capcom characters and a potential Echo of one coming. Plus, it'd be nice to have another character that fits with Snake.

 

[LetterO]

Random thought, I'm actually kind of surprised Leon Kennedy isn't in Smash yet, especially since we have two Capcom characters and a potential Echo of one coming. Plus, it'd be nice to have another character that fits with Snake.

If we get another non-echo Capcom rep, I’d prefer Phoenix Wright more.

 

[Zinith]

To be clear, I'm not excluding Poochy, Kamek and Shy Guy from AT status. All I'm saying is that if the association with the broader Mario franchise is preventing them from being repped as Yoshi ATs, then there are other options that people shouldn't overlook just because they're not as well known.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Random thought, I'm actually kind of surprised Leon Kennedy isn't in Smash yet, especially since we have two Capcom characters and a potential Echo of one coming. Plus, it'd be nice to have another character that fits with Snake.

It actually kind of isn't surprising knowing the history of RE4 and Nintendo. I don't think they want to celebrate the time Capcom ****ed them over. I mean the whole ordeal apparently guaranteed no Capcom characters getting into Brawl. Who knows the relationship between Sakurai and Corporate when it comes to character selection though.

 

[Pakky]

Ya'know what I've learned after making like over 100 icons.

Smash will never need to include anime characters or any completely non-videogame character, like ever.

 

[KMDP]

Ya'know what I've learned after making like over 100 icons.

Smash will never need to include anime characters or any completely non-videogame character, like ever.

I think between everyone on the Newcomer Stock Icon thread there's been, like, over 300 character icons made, with very little overlap.

I've done 45 by myself.

 

[Zinith]

I still thank splat for the Boshi icon in my sig...