Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

I made an account just to clear a common mistake people make

Bayonetta is actually owned by PlatnumGames and NOT Sega

Really?

Platinum games is just a developer right? How would they own a character they haven't published?

Pretty sure the Bayonetta IP and the first Bayonetta game are owned by Sega. While Nintendo has the rights for Bayonetta 2 and 3.

Just went and checked my Bayonetta 1 & 2 Wii U boxset.

"© SEGA, Developed by Platinum Games, Published by Nintendo"

Bayonetta is owned by SEGA.

 

[RileyXY1]

Speaking of alt costumes, have we seen Claus yet?

I know we've see "The Masked Man" so that's that version out but...

If Claus were to get in, it would be as the Masked Man.

 

[Nonno Umby]

I made an account just to clear a common mistake people make

Bayonetta is actually owned by PlatnumGames and NOT Sega

Then why there isn't a copyright for PlatibumGames on the website? And why there is a SEGA logo in the opening of Bayonetta 2 when they had nothing to do with it?
That's because they own the IP.

 

[Danpal65]

Dan confirmed.

I knew I'd get my chance in Smash eventually!

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of alt costumes, have we seen Claus yet?

I know we've see "The Masked Man" so that's that version out but...

Having Claus as an echo would be completely pointless, IMO.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Dan confirmed.

Dan would be broken in taunt parties

I legit want him in now

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The Bayonetta IP is completely owned by Sega.

Platinum Games is the developer, not the owner.

There is a big difference.

 

[UltimateWario]

Yeah I don’t think Bayonetta would be able to so freely use Sega music without being directly owned by them.

I watched my girlfriend play one and it had this kickass Afterburner remix in it.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Having Claus as an echo would be completely pointless, IMO.

Yeah, I think Claus should be an alt of Lucas with a different hairstyle and his own name like Alpha.

The better idea for an Echo would be Ninten of Ness but with Lucas's Up and Down Smash as Ninten doesn't have a Yo-Yo

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah, I think Claus should be an alt of Lucas with a different hairstyle and his own name like Alpha.

The better idea for an Echo would be Ninten of Ness but with Lucas's Up and Down Smash as Ninten doesn't have a Yo-Yo

He can't use Lucas's up smash either, as it involves pulling one of the seven needles, which Ninten can't do because he can't use PK Love. Also, Ninten would need a unique neutral special and final smash because PK Flash and PK Starstorm don't exist in Mother 1, although Lucas's PK Freeze (which does exist in Mother 1) can cover for the former.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah I don’t think Bayonetta would be able to so freely use Sega music without being directly owned by them.

I watched my girlfriend play one and it had this kickass Afterburner remix in it.

Fun fact, that remix is in Smash 4 and most likely Ultimate.

 

[Zeox]

Yeah, I think Claus should be an alt of Lucas with a different hairstyle and his own name like Alpha.

The better idea for an Echo would be Ninten of Ness but with Lucas's Up and Down Smash as Ninten doesn't have a Yo-Yo

And a redesign, if we get Ninten I want him to look unique and not... well...

like this

 

[MSmariosonic]

While on the topic of Sega representation in smash.

Where Segata Sanshiro at?

Yo, he'd be a welcome addition as an assist trophy or atleast just a regular trophy.

 

[Demonslyer401]

I apologize for jumping to conclusions and have changed my op

I made an account just to clear a common mistake people make Bayonetta is actually owned by PlatnumGames and NOT Sega

Upon further research the ownership of Bayonetta is owned Sega

 

[MSmariosonic]

I apologize for jumping to conclusions and have changed my op

All's good!

Welcome to Smashboards I guess?

 

[Zinith]

Imagine if I joined Smashboards in a similarly bizarre circumstance...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

While on the topic of Sega representation in smash.

Where Segata Sanshiro at?

Yo, he'd be a welcome addition as an assist trophy or atleast just a regular trophy.

How would the Assist Trophy work?
He comes out of the TV and if your foe doesn't own a Sega Saturn he beats them senseless?

 

[UltimateWario]

Sega has a lot of awesome dead IPs that would make great trophies or Assist Trophies. NiGHTS, Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia, and Monkey Ball all have colorful, unique casts that would at least make lovely trophies.

Hell, it would be great to have someone like NiGHTS or Beat be playable but Sega is just such a cool company that manages their dwindling IPs SO WELL that they’re all basically emaciated corpses floating in formaldehyde that they drag out for the ocassional cart racer or tennis match. Except I guess they’re not even doing that anymore now.

Why so many wonderful, creative IPs had to be wasted on a company like Sega is beyond me.

 

[Demonslyer401]

Imagine if I joined Smashboards in a similarly bizarre circumstance...

now I just feel embarrassed for that being my reason for making an account

While on the topic of Sega representation in smash.

Where Segata Sanshiro at?

Yo, he'd be a welcome addition as an assist trophy or atleast just a regular trophy.

Segata Sanshiro would be amazing if he somehow got in as an assist trophy

 

[Polan]

How would the Assist Trophy work?
He comes out of the TV and if your foe doesn't own a Sega Saturn he beats them senseless?

Probably his attack from Project X-Zone

 

[MSmariosonic]

How would the Assist Trophy work?
He comes out of the TV and if your foe doesn't own a Sega Saturn he beats them senseless?

It only makes sense to make him the single most strongest assist trophy out there.

Sega has a lot of awesome dead IPs that would make great trophies or Assist Trophies. NiGHTS, Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia, and Monkey Ball all have colorful, unique casts that would at least make lovely trophies.

Hell, it would be great to have someone like NiGHTS or Beat be playable but Sega is just such a cool company that’s manages their dwindling IPs SO WELL that they’re all basically emaciated corpses floating in formaldehyde that they drag out for the ocassional cart racer or tennis match. Except I guess they’re not even doing that anymore now.

Why so many wonderful, creative IPs had to be wasted on a company like Sega is beyond me.

I know, right?!

They are in a similiar boat as Capcom when it comes to the possibilities for content in smash-

i'd say if there weren't like you just said.. so many dead franchises.

Nowadays they've only got Sonic? and Yakuza.

 

[Diem]

Sega has a lot of awesome dead IPs that would make great trophies or Assist Trophies. NiGHTS, Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia, and Monkey Ball all have colorful, unique casts that would at least make lovely trophies.

Hell, it would be great to have someone like NiGHTS or Beat be playable but Sega is just such a cool company that manages their dwindling IPs SO WELL that they’re all basically emaciated corpses floating in formaldehyde that they drag out for the ocassional cart racer or tennis match. Except I guess they’re not even doing that anymore now.

Why so many wonderful, creative IPs had to be wasted on a company like Sega is beyond me.

What's worse in that regard, Sega or Konami?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Capcom uses a good chunk of their franchises. There aren't many dead Capcom IPs that I hear fan demand for or isn't dead for a good reason. Street Fighter, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter. Devil May Cry, Mega Man, Ace Attorney,etc. are all still being used.

Sega just kind of gave up. Sonic is the only old IP they try to keep relevant and even when they get a modern hit like Bayonetta, they almost let it die too. If it wasn't for Yakuza and Football Manager, I'd wonder if they had any big IPs besides Sonic left. Now, many of those IPs fizzled out in sales, but it's not like they always have to be that way.

 

[KMDP]

Imagine if I joined Smashboards in a similarly bizarre circumstance...

"I joined just to say [incorrect Yoshi information]."?

... Nah, can't see it.

Welcome to the boards, D Demonslyer401 .

 

[zeldasmash]

What's worse in that regard, Sega or Konami?

Sega lets the IP's die while Konami straight up kills them off...

I think I'd say Konami is worse simply because they kill off their franchises (look at Silent Hill or even Metal Gear). SEGA at least makes quality games with Sonic Mania, the Yakuza franchise and Bayonetta (though it's mostly Platinum Games' doing). SEGA definitely should focus on other IP's though (NiGHTS and Golden Axe would be great).

 

[Zinith]

"I joined just to say [incorrect Yoshi information]."?

... Nah, can't see it.

Welcome to the boards, D Demonslyer401 .

It'd be more like "I'm here to STOP THE YOSHI PILE-ON!!!

"Oh wait, that's Corrin? Well ****...

"Um... what's up SB?"

 

[KMDP]

Sega lets the IP's die while Konami straight up kills them off...

I think I'd say Konami is worse simply because they kill off their franchises (look at Silent Hill or even Metal Gear). SEGA at least makes quality games with Sonic Mania, the Yakuza franchise and Bayonetta (though it's mostly Platinum Games' doing). SEGA definitely should focus on other IP's though (NiGHTS and Golden Axe would be great).

I think SEGA makes bad short-term decisions that massively effect the long-term, a vicious cycle mostly all swirling nebulously around Sonic the Hedgehog.

I'll go more into what I mean by that in a longer, later post.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Speaking of old franchises. We need goemon to make a return. His humor and play style is close to a mario/zelda mix. Would be good for smash, people could go super sayian.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

One franchise I would love to see represented from SEGA as an Assist Trophy would be Valkyria Chronicles.

 

[PlugMeister]

I would personally like to see either Alex Kidd or Opa-Opa as an Assist Trophy to provide as a neat little throwback to Sega's roots for once.

 

[KMDP]

I think SEGA makes bad short-term decisions that massively effect the long-term, a vicious cycle mostly all swirling nebulously around Sonic the Hedgehog.

I'll go more into what I mean by that in a longer, later post.

It all goes back to the early days of Sonic, back in the 90s. When SEGA was massively pushing the Sonic brand and letting just about anyone license the Sonic IP.

Within a few years of Sonic's genesis (lol), you had...

Sonic the Hedgehog's Japanese Game canon.
Sonic the Hedgehog's Western Game canon.
Sonic the Hedgehog, the tv show (Sonic SatAM, the one with Princess Sally)
Fleetway's Sonic the Comic (which built off the Western Game canon)
Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog comics (which built off of SatAM)
Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic Underground

All of them have wildly different tones and lore, and as a result everyone has a different opinion of "What is a Sonic?", not even getting into the differences between the game's marketing in Japan, the USA and England.

This is where the "the Sonic fanbase is unpleasable" comes from, they're unpleasable because nobody can agree about what Sonic should be.

After the initial boom, you had the Sonic Adventure series, which introduced the Japanese canon to the West, and basically killed off all the old canons except Archie (it's more complicated than that, but it works as a simplification).

You then had the developers trying to make Sonic more serious, for whatever reason, which peaked with Shadow the Hedgehog. Not only that, but you have SEGA making Sonic Team rush the Sonic games out the door to meet super tight deadlines.

The rushed release of games like Sonic '06 massively hurt SEGA's reputation and, in the long term, their sales. This means they need to make more Sonic games (since Sonic is by far their biggest IP), but the Sonic fanbases is fractured to all hell due to the massive Sonic push in the '90s, so the Sonic fanbase can never be pleased, SEGA tries to please the Sonic fanbase, but pisses off another segment in the process, then they make more different Sonic styles and canons (Sonic X, the Boost formula, Sonic Lost World, Sonic BOOM) which fractures the fanbase even more. (This is the true form of the "Sonic Cycle".)

SEGA has no money to focus on other franchises, because of a short-term marketing decision back in the 90s. Also, Sonic Team is forced to focus all their effort and creativity on Sonic, resulting in burn-out and tons of "throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks".

For every Sonic fan who likes a decision made by Sonic Team, there is another who haaaaates it.

To go over the versions of Sonic there are again, this time with modern canons thrown in.

Spoiler: What is a Sonic?

Official Sonic Canon (the original Japanese canon)

Classic Sonic gameplay​

Sonic Adventure gameplay​

Sonic/Shadow gameplay​

Knuckles/Rouge gameplay​

Gamma/Tails/Eggman gameplay​

Amy gameplay​

Big gameplay​

Sonic Advance gameplay (of which there are three variants)​

Sonic Rush gameplay​

Boost Formula gameplay​

Sonic Heroes gameplay​

Shadow the Hedgehog gameplay​

Sonic Lost World gameplay​

Secret Rings gameplay​

Black Knight gameplay​

Werehog gameplay​

Sonic Forces' Avatar gameplay​

Sonic R gameplay​

Sonic 3D gameplay​

The old Western Game Canon
Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog (Pre-Reboot)
Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog (Post-Reboot)
Sonic IDW
Fleetway's Sonic the Comic
Sonic the Hedgehog Sat-AM
Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic Underground
Sonic X
Sonic Boom, the games
Sonic Boom, the cartoon

Spoiler

TL;DR: All of SEGA's early pushing of Sonic the Hedgehog has resulted in a massively fractured fanbase, which leads to a bad reputation and poor sales, these poor sales result in a greater focus on Sonic and neglect of other SEGA IPs.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Random thought, I'm actually kind of surprised Leon Kennedy isn't in Smash yet, especially since we have two Capcom characters and a potential Echo of one coming. Plus, it'd be nice to have another character that fits with Snake.

But how would Leon fit? It seems like to me Leon's moves would be mostly brawling due to Resident Evil's nature

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Yes, all my yes to this idea. I wiuld love to see Primarina in Smash.

First Verge broke our friendship when he said No Lycanroc, now lolz says No Isaac, and no Isabelle? Well all I can say to them is

Spoiler

XD

Yea but if you look he made a fatal mistake

Gen 8 rep is that mistake.

That rep doesn’t even exist yet and it wasn’t even around when the roster was not being finalized

He’s gonna loose with Isabelle I can smell it

 

[Megadoomer]

How would the Assist Trophy work?
He comes out of the TV and if your foe doesn't own a Sega Saturn he beats them senseless?

It would be a bit of a double-edged sword, seeing as he'd also beat up whoever summoned him if they don't own a Sega Saturn.

 

[Darkraid]

I would have like Akuma to be Ryu's echo. He would be a nice complement to heihachi if he decides to join smash lol

 

[Guybrush20X6]

It would be a bit of a double-edged sword, seeing as he'd also beat up whoever summoned him if they don't own a Sega Saturn.

Yeah, *gulp*!

I hope he accepts "I like Sonic R's soundtrack"s or "I signed a petition for a new Panzer Dragoon game"

 

[KMDP]

Yeah, *gulp*!

I hope he accepts "I like Sonic R's soundtrack"s or "I signed a petition for a new Panzer Dragoon game"

I'm in luck. I actually own a SEGA Saturn.

I don't have any games for it though, I think someone gave it to my Dad when they were getting rid of a lot of their old stuff, or something.

 

[UltimateWario]

So I think there needs to be a rule that if a playable character has a specific theme, it is available to listen to. All signs we have point toward Dark Samus’s amazing theme not being an available song and I think this should be a punishable offense.

Just copy and paste this into the music folder, Mr. Samurai, and I won’t be forced to take legal action.

Seriously both versions of this are great and it’ll be a genuine shame if one of them doesn’t get ported over. I’m not about to expect another Prime remix since Parasite Queen is already getting remixed and Metroid Prime is like rat poison to the Japanese but...just saying.

It would be a bit of a double-edged sword, seeing as he'd also beat up whoever summoned him if they don't own a Sega Saturn.

Oh, I’m good then! Thank you, obsession with NiGHTS I had in Middle School!

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Konami kills their IPs, skips the funeral for it, and grave robs them while everyone is watching the IPs about to be buried. At least Capcom lets them die in peace. I find it odd that Konami *currently* has more stuff in Smash than Capcom and Namco

 

[Cosmic77]

Ok, I don't like loz's opinions (not leaks) anymore...

lol

Neither Verge or Loz knew if K.Rool was even in the game, I'm not trusting Loz's opinion that Geno isn't in. That just sounds absurd at this point. Isaac I can understand since Sakurai doesn't acknowledge his existence at all, but GENO not being in when Ridley/K.Rool are?!

I'm still betting that Geno is another well-kept secret like K.Rool was.

Keep in mind that a leak doesn't become any less true just because you don't like it. Look back at the ESRB leak for reference.

Regardless, this is just Loz stating his opinions, not actual leaks. From the looks of it, he doesn't know much more than we do. Nothing to get worked up over.