Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Rocket Raccoon]

What kind of an apology doesn't include Frogger?

Frogger Assist Trophy would be lit.

 

[Deleted member]

What kind of an apology doesn't include Frogger?

inb4 Frogger music is usable on Pac-Land and is the only exception to the "stage music is selected by series" thing

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm not really surprised we haven't seen tomb raider, resident evil, silent hill etc as playable characters in Smash. All the other third parties have legacy franchises dating back nes/ arcade. With the exception of Sega.

But for assist trophies, maybe i'm a little surprised.

Maybe its a situation like their too big to be AT's and not big enough to be playable.

Or maybe they'll be a DLC consideration.

That seems logical enough. Consider Lara's case, she's owned by SE now, but is still a Western mascot, so some licensing costs and negotiations must be done first, and then she must still pass Sakurai's gun customs.

Even Duke Nukem, the king of FPS mascots, would have to leap through a lot of loops even if people decided to give him enough support.

Come to think of it, I wonder why no one has drawn Sakurai making characters go through a gun metal detector yet.

Because Konami's producers and art directors thought the future was beautiful anime people and not macho men.

No one noticed as long as Ayami Kojima drew them. Then Inafune's "we need Western devs, guys" movement inspired the Lords of Shadow crew to bring back gruff men, but that's a different can of worms.

Funnily enough though, Richter was still pretty anime in his debut game(s), but his sheer machismo helped people look past that.

Oh man I hope you're right. I just want Tails to finally get in Smash. I need to recreate that EGM hoax now that we're getting the right stage and everything, and I'd hate to see Shadow and Knux get promoted while Tails is stuck in that loop.

I'd totally take it! I actually prefer Tails to have classic moves

After all of the bad PR from Kojima's departure, I'm betting that they're barely asking any IP fees to Smash since they want to try to save their rep at this point.

Tails (and possibly Blaze) is a must.

That said, I certainly hope they're willing to put in Goemon too. Imagine being a Smash/Konami fan in Japan and just seeing Snake and the CV crew in Ultimate.

 

[KMDP]

Hilda's chances are mostly linked to how nuts they're going with the Echo concept and if any series gets more than one as Impa as a Sheik Echo would most likely come first what with the ballot and all.

So, Guybrush, what did you think of my Hilda idea above?

Many think Geno.
Though I'm hoping Sora. Somehow. Someway. Somewhere.

Donna toki datte (No matter what the time)
Zutto futari de (We'll always be together)
Donna toki datte (No matter what the time)
Soba ni iru kara (Because you're by my side)
Kimi to iu hikari ga watashi o mitsukeru (The light known as "you" finds me)
Mayonaka ni (In the middle of the night)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

inb4 Frogger music is usable on Pac-Land and is the only exception to the "stage music is selected by series" thing

I mean, we're clearly going to be able to hear other series music, otherwise there's no point to have them all.

Also, I'm wondering, should Isaac make it in, would he get a new remix in his trailer or the Brawl remix of GS2's battle theme?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Frogger Assist Trophy would be lit.

I'd really want a stage, as well.
Or even Frogger as a Boss!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So, Guybrush, what did you think of my Hilda idea above?

Sounds pretty good though I'd personally have Ravio Summoned in place of the Down B.

Feel free to post it on the support thread.

 

[SonicMario]

What if Shadow becomes an Alph alt for Sonic.

...and Tails is the echo.

Hell, I'd take that. Tails would actually get more animations. While Shadow is stuck doing the same animations as Sonic. Even the ones that many Shadow fans would say make him feel "silly" like the "You're too slow!/Sonic speed!" taunt.

Though I'd take it even if Tails is the echo and they made Shadow the semi-clone as much as it would annoy me they made Shadow more unique. But either way, I just want Tails damn it. I'll still love the game to pieces no matter what. But on the Sonic part of things I'll be annoyed if Shadow and Knuckles got some significant upgrade but Tails didn't xP I'd almost rather have Sonic alone again then face that reality.

 

[Untouch]

Be careful what you wish for...

 

[ErenJager]

I like to believe there will be a Frogger assist trophy.

As well as a Meta Crystal Stage and Poké Floats.

..and Geno playable.

 

[Sharkarat]

I can't prove it or anything. But just my personal view/opinion as someone outside the Sonic fanbase, I think you guys overestate Tails iconicness. From my outside view he's just one of sonic's friend together with knuckles.
You're also underestimating how much recognizability Shadow gets from being a meme.

 

[---]

It's rather ironic to look at the condition of Konami and it's franchises considering they were the original big "inter-company" crossover company with the "Wai Wai" series. Hopefully they take note of the interest of the inclusion of their franchises in Ultimate and continue to make smaller budget titles like Super Bomberman R.

Give me a Wai Wai World reboot with Konami Man, Konami Lady, Simon, Snake, Goemon, Bill, Bomberman, Master Higgins, & Bonk with Gradius/Twinbee mini-games. Make it wacky and lighthearted. Put in lots of penguins, octopuses, Hudson bees, and Easter Island heads.

Capcom uses a good chunk of their franchises. There aren't many dead Capcom IPs that I hear fan demand for or isn't dead for a good reason. Street Fighter, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter. Devil May Cry, Mega Man, Ace Attorney,etc. are all still being used.

Sega just kind of gave up. Sonic is the only old IP they try to keep relevant and even when they get a modern hit like Bayonetta, they almost let it die too. If it wasn't for Yakuza and Football Manager, I'd wonder if they had any big IPs besides Sonic left. Now, many of those IPs fizzled out in sales, but it's not like they always have to be that way.

With SEGA I don't think it was a willingness to give up, as they continued to try and create new franchises up until the death of the Dreamcast. I think it was more so repeatedly shooting themselves & consumers in the foot during the mid-90s, in part due to the disconnect between the USA & Japanese branches. It also doesn't help that the speed of Sonic has never really translated well into 3D.

One franchise I would love to see represented from SEGA as an Assist Trophy would be Valkyria Chronicles.

I'd like to think that in some alternate reality that SEGA is known for RPGs in addition to Sonic. Phantasy Star, Shining, Sakura Wars, & Valkyria Chronicles. Hell they own Atlus now. Sega could easily give Square Enix a run for their money if they really tried like with the original Phantasy Star. Hopefully they take note of the success of Fire Emblem/Heroes, of which many of their series are of the same genre, and learn from it.

 

[Dixie Kong]

If Banjo doesn’t make it in, then I really hope Dixie is in as a non echo.

 

[Mc.Rad]

What do ya'll think about the chance of having Raiden in Smash Ultimate? It would honestly be amazing to see somebody from PSASBR be in Smash Bros.

 

[Bayopuff]

What do ya'll think about the chance of having Raiden in Smash Ultimate? It would honestly be amazing to see somebody from PSASBR be in Smash Bros.

I think it's pretty slim...

 

[SonicMario]

I can't prove it or anything. But just my personal view/opinion as someone outside the Sonic fanbase, I think you guys overestate Tails iconicness. From my outside view he's just one of sonic's friend together with knuckles.
You're also underestimating how much recognizability Shadow gets from being a meme.

He's probably not quite that level anymore given he's hardly had any playable appearances in a while though I suppose at least there's Mania recently. But he once was a pretty-well marketed character. Getting like 3 of his own games (Though 2 were just on the Game Gear, and a 3rd was some strange music making game. But games all to themselves are still games all to themselves).

Sonic 2 was probably also the franchise's real start to greatness since it was a packaged-in title with the Genesis at the time so thus many people's first experience with Sonic was Sonic the Hedgehog 2. And if they had a sibling, friend, or whoever else that may want to play with them. The ability to control Tails was there.

Maybe Tails isn't all that anymore, though Tails at least still made frequent supporting character roles in the past decade while Shadow was in limbo in mainline games up until Sonic Forces. But Tails should still be considered at least the player 2 character of Sonic on the level Luigi is for Mario. And having the duo of Sonic & Tails fight Mario & Luigi would be amazing to have in Smash.

 

[KingBroly]

I feel like it'd be
Rowlet-Brionne-Incineroar, but that's just me.

I went the way I did because having 2 Pokemon Trainers with fully-evolved Fire Pokemon doesn't make much sense.

 

[Deleted member]

What do ya'll think about the chance of having Raiden in Smash Ultimate? It would honestly be amazing to see somebody from PSASBR be in Smash Bros.

Raiden's only chance IMO is as a Snake echo using his way less popular Sons of Liberty version. I'd be fine with it, sense MGS2 is my favorite game in the series, but I know plenty of people who wouldn't be, and sense that Raiden's pretty unpopular, his chances as an echo are pretty low. I just want Rising music, especially It Has To Be This Way. Whether we get Raiden with that or not is irrelevant to me.

Raiden should've replaced Gray Fox.

 

[ErenJager]

If we get Heihachi .... What's the likelihood of getting one or two of his relatives as echos? Jin or Kazuya. They've used similar styles, Jin not so much any more.

I need a King assist trophy... Although he's my favourite tekken character, i'd love to see him playable with armor King as an alt or echo.

Yoshimitsu as a boss in story mode!!

 

[KMDP]

With SEGA I don't think it was a willingness to give up, as they continued to try and create new franchises up until the death of the Dreamcast. I think it was more so repeatedly shooting themselves & consumers in the foot during the mid-90s, in part due to the disconnect between the USA & Japanese branches. It also doesn't help that the speed of Sonic has never really translated well into 3D.

I made a similar post a few hours ago, mostly about Sonic and how he's been causing SEGA to shoot themselves in the foot. It's here, for those just coming into the thread.

About Sonic in 3D, to quote a certain somebody on Youtube (Shaymay, of whom the general idea of that post I wrote can be attributed to): "It's not that Sonic can't work in 3D, it's that he hasn't worked in 3D".

The problem with Sonic in 3D is twofold.

1) SEGA's push to show the capabilities of the Dreamcast over the quality of Sonic Adventure lead to stuff like the beta Windy Valley (which was more like "Classic Sonic in 3D" in design) getting scrapped in favour of simpler levels (because with different playstyles comes a multiplication of the workload). This created a precedent that all future 3D Sonic games that followed.
2) An emphasis on more and more speed requires more time put into longer levels, resulting in more linear level design.

Fan Games like Green Hill Paradise, SonicGDK and this tech demo show that Sonic can work in 3D.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

What do ya'll think about the chance of having Raiden in Smash Ultimate? It would honestly be amazing to see somebody from PSASBR be in Smash Bros.

Wasn't Raiden in PSASBR?

 

[RileyXY1]

Wasn't Raiden in PSASBR?

He was, although in terms of PSASBR characters Heihachi Mishima and Dante are more likely than Raiden.

 

[ImajinForSmash]

DevaAshera

That’s terribly disappointing. Although to defend my point somewhat (despite it being painfully obvious that there is no way for Imajin to get into Smash), it doesn’t seem to me that you disagree with me here. You state that Richter is popular and well-known amongst western Castlevania fans, which is true. However I have stated previously that Imajin is popular and well-known in Japan since Doki Doki Panic is more prevalent and popular than Super Mario Bros. 2.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think Isabelle is a lock at this point. She has become a huge part of the AC series and her assist trophy is gone with the AC assist trophy now being Kapp'n and Isabelle's assist function being replaced by Chef Kawasaki.

You do need to remember that Knuckle Joe and Chef Kawasaki are both from the Kirby series, and they're both Assist Trophies. As such, even though Kapp'n is a new Assist Trophy, that does NOT mean that Isabelle is guaranteed any promotions.

 

[Deleted member]

He was, although in terms of PSASBR characters Heihachi Mishima and Dante are more likely than Raiden.

If we get Dante, they'd better have reboot Dante as an alternate costume. Putting DmC Dante on the same team as Dark Pit or Shadow (if he gets in) would be amazing. The game might explode from all the edginess contained in that match.

 

[ErenJager]

Imagine Yoshimitsu as a boss in Smash's story mode if we got a Tekken character as the next Namco rep.

After he's defeated he seeks a better weapon to defeat us... The Soul Edge from soulcalibur... Then Yoshimitsu becomes Nightmare.

Only boss I could think of that could put Dracula to shame.

Now only if Ryu Hayabusa became playable...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

He was, although in terms of PSASBR characters Heihachi Mishima and Dante are more likely than Raiden.

I hope people can support him so we can get RULES OF NATURE. Yes, he's a swordsman, but him being a cyborg would help give variety.

Fan Games like Green Hill Paradise, SonicGDK and this tech demo show that Sonic can work in 3D.

Best solution would be to hire these types of folks. That is assuming Mania's success hasn't encouraged to ditch 3-D entirely and just do follow-ups to it.

On the brighter side of things, Sonic's racing games have been getting better than ever, as long as Team Racing can keep up the trend without the All-Stars branding. Also, Yakuza is consistently good enough that getting a Shenmue 3 seems almost redundant at this stage, but I digress.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If we get Dante, they'd better have reboot Dante as an alternate costume. Putting DmC Dante on the same team as Dark Pit or Shadow (if he gets in) would be amazing. The game might explode from all the edginess contained in that match.

Only, and ONLY if he has a mop stuck on his head at all times when wearing that costume

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Many think Geno.
Though I'm hoping Sora. Somehow. Someway. Somewhere.

I would like for Geno to show up (would easily fit with the Mario series instead of being given his own series to rep)

And then Fire Mario was confirmed as an alt.

Then he got buffed back to high tier

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

If we get Heihachi .... What's the likelihood of getting one or two of his relatives as echos? Jin or Kazuya. They've used similar styles, Jin not so much any more.

I need a King assist trophy... Although he's my favourite tekken character, i'd love to see him playable with armor King as an alt or echo.

Yoshimitsu as a boss in story mode!!

Yoshimitsu is legit one of my most wanted characters, even though I know it won’t happen. He could have a costume for both Tekken and Soul Caliber

 

[Deleted member]

Only, and ONLY if he has a mop stuck on his head at all times when wearing that costume

"Not in a million years."

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Be careful what you wish for...

View attachment 158636

OH MY GOD, MY EYES.-

 

[ErenJager]

Yoshimitsu is legit one of my most wanted characters, even though I know it won’t happen. He could have a costume for both Tekken and Soul Caliber

Even if he's not playable... I figure if we can get any Tekken character playable... The chances of some sort of appearance by Yoshimitsu increases. Which would still make me happy.

I feel like with all these other third parties getting love, Namco might get some... Since they're at the helm after all.

My long shot dream is to see Koei Tecmo get involved to. I'd be real neat to see Ryu Hayabusa crossover and do battle with some guys from Tekken or Soulcalibur.

 

[Deleted member]

Raiden was my main in PSASBR so I'd love to see him in Smash. Rising is such a good game, I just wish I was able to finish it.
Also, Raiden is the personification of Chaotic Good and that's really hot

 

[Pakky]

Spoiler: King Boo

 

[---]

I made a similar post a few hours ago, mostly about Sonic and how he's been causing SEGA to shoot themselves in the foot. It's here, for those just coming into the thread.

About Sonic in 3D, to quote a certain somebody on Youtube (Shaymay, of whom the general idea of that post I wrote can be attributed to): "It's not that Sonic can't work in 3D, it's that he hasn't worked in 3D".

The problem with Sonic in 3D is twofold.

1) SEGA's push to show the capabilities of the Dreamcast over the quality of Sonic Adventure lead to stuff like the beta Windy Valley (which was more like "Classic Sonic in 3D" in design) getting scrapped in favour of simpler levels (because with different playstyles comes a multiplication of the workload). This created a precedent that all future 3D Sonic games that followed.
2) An emphasis on more and more speed requires more time put into longer levels, resulting in more linear level design.

Fan Games like Green Hill Paradise, SonicGDK and this tech demo show that Sonic can work in 3D.

https://retronauts.com/article/414/retronauts-episode-105-cancelled-games
https://retronauts.com/article/828/retronauts-episode-147-sonic-adventure
https://retronauts.com/article/852/retronauts-episode-151-sonic-adventure-2

Without doing the research I'm not sure exactly about the two listed points you're trying to make but I do agree with the quote you've cited. I'd recommend checking out the listed Retronauts episodes on Sonic X-Treme and Adventure 1/2 as I think they both re-enforce and expand upon the points you've made; they're also entertaining and feel like extended audio versions of DYKG & Gaming Historian.

As a side note, with Ultimate & Smash's 20th Anniversary coming up, I'd love to see an episode focused on the history of Smash Bros. with guests from Source Gaming. PushDustIn

 

[Nazyrus]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/428334256/we-werent-supposed-to-take-pictures-but-here

Has someone already debunked this render of Shadow yet? I honestly don't follow the sonic series that much to know. Probably fake as usual.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Personally, I would rather see Frogger playable. On the surface, he may not seem like a fighter with potential, but if you craft a moveset based on the gameplay, you can get a really unique character out of Frogger, sorta like Pac-Man in a sense. I made a short moveset months ago, detailing what kind of playstyle he could have here:

Moveset and Playstyle

Neutral-B: Tongue Lash: Frogger quickly whips out his tongue to paralyze the opponent for a very short period of time that allows Frogger to attack freely. The tongue automatically homes at the opponent within its area. Can be rapidly used to paralyze multiple opponents. If abused too much, Frogger tires out and is vulnerable to attack.

Side-B: Thrust Jump: Frogger leans charges for a horizontal spin jump attack. The longer you charge, the greater the distance. When the move is active, Frogger can dodge by pressing the special button, and pressing B again allows Frogger to do a quick, but weak counterattack. If abused too much, Frogger tires out and is vulnerable to attack.

Down-B: Vehicle: Frogger summons a vehicle, avoiding the vehicle by jumping from behind. These vehicles range from powerful to weak: trucks, cars, buses, motorcycles, bicycles. The vehicle chosen is randomized. If Frogger is tired out when using this move, Frogger will end up being hit by the vehicle.

Up-B: High-Jump: Functions similarly Thrust Jump. You can jump a high vertical distance, spin-jump attack, be able to dodge in mid-air, and counter too. The special move does not have the weakness of tiring Frogger out, but if Frogger uses this move while in a tired state from using Neutral-B, the vertical distance travelled will be far lower.

Frogger would basically be an evading master in Smash, staying true to how Frogger plays in the arcade game. He can dodge-roll quickly, side-step quickly, a plethora of moves that help Frogger escape from the most tight situations. When Frogger successfully avoids an attack from an opponent, he is awarded stamina, which recovers his special moves back to its normal state. The weaknesses he would have is his weak attack power, being VERY lightweight, and being able to tire out if Frogger uses his special moves too much. In return, he is a character with masterful mobility. If I could name his play-style, he would be called the "Evasive Martial Artist".

I want to see two of the biggest third-party arcade mascots in Smash Ultimate!

 

[Deleted member]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/428334256/we-werent-supposed-to-take-pictures-but-here

Has someone already debunked this render of Shadow yet? I honestly don't follow the sonic series that much to know. Probably fake as usual.

That's not even the proper artstyoe for the renders lol

 

[Cutie Gwen]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/428334256/we-werent-supposed-to-take-pictures-but-here

Has someone already debunked this render of Shadow yet? I honestly don't follow the sonic series that much to know. Probably fake as usual.

Not sure on the render but the guy's claiming he also saw a Meta Ridley skin, As new information